Hey Can,

Maybe this will help.

Here's some Rennteamers comments I collected about our stock TT suspension. Links to actual thread/posts are long gone.

Kinda long but maybe something in here:

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I have been quite perplexed by the reported handling issues of the TT. Before I got the car, all signals were outstanding - the 7:40 is a WR time quoted by MT, Jeremy Clarkson's statement that the TT handling "defied physics." Then came all the recent negative press and rumors. It seemed as if two different cars were being described?

Things started making some sense after I have recently aligned my car after lowering it (997TT) and given the huge range in specs for the TT, I think it explains some of the discrepancies we see in handling:

Front
camber -0.4 to -0.9
caster 7.4 to 8.4
toe 0.00 to 0.08

Rear
camber -1.4 to -1.9
toe 0.08 to 0.25

The ranges are huge, and a car with only -0.4 neg camber in front is going to push forever until you lose patience and jab the throttle. That would explain some of the frustrations our of esteemed C&D journalists. The positive toe (out) in the rear will lead to some of the floaty/twitchy feelings in the rear when loading/unloading the end in corners. The GT3/RS runs 1/8" toe-in in the rear. I bet the car WR took around the ring in 7:40 was dialed in more aggressively - more neg camber f&r and neutral or toe-in in the rear.


I don't think Porsche intended to align the TT to a razor's edge, otherwise there would be no need for a GT3/RS, or even possibly a GT2. Porsche is not dumb and needs to create and exaggerate whatever differences it can between model lines.

Factory alignment can be off, and I would have mine checked and adjusted to your driving needs


My TT handles just fine on local roads, with modest understeer and front end pushing at the limits of tire adhesion. I've never tracked the car, but would think that it is overall WAY too soft for all out dropping the hammer, even in sport mode.


does this mean I _should_ have the alignment checked when I get the _new_ car?

Is it safe to assume the factory alignment is satisfactory?






I definitely would. Porsche covers this up to 2000 miles so might as well ask them to double check the numbers and make sure you ask for the printout. No printout = Dealer BS. When will you pull the trigger?


1. the handling "issues" (which actually aren't issues but the intended factory setup, we are a tough audience ) can't be corrected by new alignment settings. Do you really thing Porsche would give Horst v. Saurma a faulty car? Or a car which has a bad alignment? You can bet that the tested 997 Turbo was in a perfect condition for the Nordschleife and Hockenheim, Porsche already knows the optimum settings (tire pressure, alignment, etc.) for this car.

2. the 997 Turbo is a hell of a sportscar and it can be driven very fast. The setup however shows way too much oversteer for an AWD car which in my opinion indicates a "typical" 911 setup to add some juice to the driving experience. Honestly, I prefer being faster than having to deal with this kind of "entertainment" but some people may prefer drifting. A couple of years ago, many 996 Turbo drivers but especially car journalists made complaints about a boring and too neutral setup. This is what happens now if Porsche listens too much to the press and some customers, who may not really understand what driving is all about. If I want to slip and slide, I better use something less expensive and something I don't have to pay 400 Euro per rear tire for this kind of fun. To each his own I guess but I definetly would have loved to see a more neutral setup on the 997 Turbo. This would also make driving during winter time less "exciting" (the kind of excitement I really don't need ).



Whereas the 996tt would simply drift in all 4 wheels, the 997tt feels that it is going to snap like a hammer head to oversteer and ... one better be brave enough to keep the throttle down and correct.


Porsche makes money. There is no market for a GT3/RS/GT2 if the TT was honed to the razor's edge. If Porsche really put so much precise effort into the TT why do the acceptable factory ranges for front and rear camber vary to such a large extent: (-)0.4 to (-)0.9 front camber, (-)1.4 to (-1.9) rear camber. That spread of variation is huge, with a pronounced effect on handling. Alot of adjustments can be made to improve the TT - not because Porsche is unable to, but because they don't need to - they aren't stupid!


I am really starting to beleive this theory. Its all part of the master plan. Thats why you need to fill the gaps on the TT with the proper mods. The result will be a car reaching its full driving potential and not just fitting in a car companies "niche". RC, your initial report on the turbo and its handling characteristics are spot on and hopefully I think it can be improved. With the Bridgestones I really have a tough time deciphering what Porsches intention was probably to please the daily driver. My car did come in off the ship out of alignment (half the numbers were red) probably due to the shipping process I really don't know. It pulled to one side more than the other. After a few adjustments the car feels better but it did not address the "floaty" "squirmy" feel I get if I drive the car on the twisties a bit more aggressivly or even on the straights involving some steering to manuver the car with confidence (if pushed). In short this is a difficult car to drive fast compared to others i have owned in the past. I just didn't expect this and want to see if it can be tamed a bit for my taste. This car is fun to drive but on the street with not so perfect conditions it can become unpredictable and for me its just too soft and squirmy even in the stiffer setting which is not very comfortable. I am not a track guy just an enthusiast and to be honest I love this car but am disapointed that a $150k car coming from one of the finest automobile makers in the world was released with these characteristics. The power of this car needs a predictable suspension feel and road manner but this along with the steering has much to be desired. Now if you use this car for commute to work and drive conservatively then you will never experience what I am trying to explain. I know thats what the GT3 is for but that is the wrong answer because the Turbo is also a supercar.


I echo your pov completely. There aren't many TT owners with the skills of Walter Rohl. Porsche paid this dude big bucks every year to do nothing but test and tune car setups. He ok-ed the setup we got in the 997 Turbo and if he has no problem with the understeer/oversteer of the setup, that means the said problem lies with the skills of the car owners and not the car.

If the owners spend more time inproving their skills and learn to drive the car. Porsche spent millions and countless hours tuning car setup, does anyone seriously think one can do a better job of setting up the car without spending the time and effort?

Me think may of the handling complaints are cause by the way the driver drive the car, not by the car itself.



I don't have the experience of many here but just wanted to at my two cents. Even though I know the handling limits of my TT far surpass my previous M3, when pushing it, I found the M3 far more confidence inspiring because of a more neutral handling and communicative steering setup. This was something I was not expecting going from a rear wheel drive car to an AWD car.

I agree with RC that this was probably done on purpose given the feedback Porsche received on the 996. Now given the situation, I appreciate those who are willing to experiment and I look forward to learning from their experiences!


I'll second that. I'm also coming from an M3 (Dinan stage 3), which was very confidence inspiring. However, that handling came at great expense with the car costing nearly as much as the base price of a TT. While I'm initially somewhat disappointed in the TT's handling (feel), I'm sure with more "time in the saddle" I'll learn to deal with it. When the monsoon season hits Seattle I'll find a parking lot where I can spin a few donuts and get the feel for when the car wants to break loose. It's for darn sure I'm not going to dump a bunch of money on this puppy to realize some marginal handling gains.


Summary: This new AWD system in the 997 TT if driven aggressively enough exibits a squirmy/floaty feeling that compromises your perception of the stability/confidence that a car of this caliber should deliver. Because this is an all new technology so different from anything before it, experienced drivers may be taken by surprise. I am not experienced enough to technically describe exactly what is happening but I am experienced enough to know that it is. Please do not quote W.R.(he is employed by Porsche not Porsches customers).