Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 991.2 GT3 - Page1

Aug 25, 2016 11:10:18 AM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14171, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: 991.2 GT3

RC:
Boyko23:
RC:
BjoernB:
again - even if it's out there officially there is no deposit-rule in CH - now back to R8 sales pitch... are you now racing Aldo or not...

Starting off a traffic light isn't exactly racing...  but ALDO knows he would loose, the R8 is incredible off the line, even without launch control. I even claim that when it is wet, no car on this planet can outrun the R8 in a red light run, I was never that impressed with the wet performance of a sports car.

I think, you will see back lights of any 991.2 Turbo S off the line also...

Nope, we already tried (without launch control).  With launch control, both cars are basically side by side, no (visible) difference (991.2 Turbo S). I guess it doesn't matter in real life if the Turbo S is 0.1 seconds faster from 0-100 kph than the R8 on paper.  From 0-300 kph, I'm even almost a second faster.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

That's it . i' m calling my dealer to book a test drive !! Smiley

--

964 Carrera 4 -- 997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991 GT3 RS

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Aug 25, 2016 11:25:24 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Gnil

Re: 991.2 GT3

Maybe you should get the 570S...look at the 0-300 kph acceleration time compared to the R8 & Turbo S, this is why many doubt the McLaren power claim.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

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Aug 25, 2016 11:40:46 AM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: 991.2 GT3

RC:
Maybe you should get the 570S...look at the 0-300 kph acceleration time compared to the R8 & Turbo S, this is why many doubt the McLaren power claim.

Maybe they should be looking at the weight-to-power figure, instead of just the power output.
They could also make some allowances for aerodynamic drag after looking at the width and height figures of the cars.

--

fritz

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Aug 25, 2016 12:26:04 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: fritz

Re: 991.2 GT3

fritz:
RC:
Maybe you should get the 570S...look at the 0-300 kph acceleration time compared to the R8 & Turbo S, this is why many doubt the McLaren power claim.

Maybe they should be looking at the weight-to-power figure, instead of just the power output.
They could also make some allowances for aerodynamic drag after looking at the width and height figures of the cars.

Still...almost 5 seconds faster from 0-300 kph than the 991.2 Turbo S? Hmm... Smiley Weight to power figure isn't much different between the cars...

Weight...good that you mention it: I wonder how larger companies like Audi and Porsche (both actually part of the even larger VW Group) cannot manage to lower the weight of their cars but a small manufacturer like McLaren can.

So here is the key question: Is McLaren lowering the weight on their cars by compromising (crash) safety? Would be interesting to find out. Or are the larger manufacturers just looking at a higher gain margin, thus using heavier materials to save cost?

Maybe an interesting analysis and topic for a doctoral thesis in automotive engineering. Smiley Smiley

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

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Aug 25, 2016 12:41:50 PM

steelested: Co-Pilot; Loc: uk , United Kingdom; Posts: 214, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 10, 2012; Reply to: RC

Re: 991.2 GT3

drawing this all back to gt3

theres always going to be a faster car out there but that wouldnt be why you'd buy one -particularly in manual

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Aug 25, 2016 1:02:32 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: 991.2 GT3

RC:
fritz:
RC:
Maybe you should get the 570S...look at the 0-300 kph acceleration time compared to the R8 & Turbo S, this is why many doubt the McLaren power claim.

Maybe they should be looking at the weight-to-power figure, instead of just the power output.
They could also make some allowances for aerodynamic drag after looking at the width and height figures of the cars.

Still...almost 5 seconds faster from 0-300 kph than the 991.2 Turbo S? Hmm... Weight to power figure isn't much different between the cars...

12% isn't much?
Another aspect I didn't mention but which is always disregarded in these discussions is that an engine's power output figure is just a measure of its capability at one engine speed at wide-open throttle and under full load.
A comparison of torque curves over the whole rev range might be more revealing when it comes to discussing acceleration, not to mention possible influences of different drive train ratios.

Weight...good that you mention it: I wonder how larger companies like Audi and Porsche (both actually part of the even larger VW Group) cannot manage to lower the weight of their cars but a small manufacturer like McLaren can.

It'll primarily be a question of focus.

So here is the key question: Is McLaren lowering the weight on their cars by compromising (crash) safety? Would be interesting to find out. Or are the larger manufacturers just looking at a higher gain margin, thus using heavier materials to save cost?

Look at any stripped-out mass production car and see if you don't think that there's a lot of weight in there which could be removed without negatively affecting function or crash safety. A lot of it is there to make components easier and cheaper to produce, ship, handle and assemble in large numbers and to use in different model variants. All these things don't have the same priority for a small-series manufacturer with greater vertical integration of its production processes.

Maybe an interesting analysis and topic for a doctoral thesis in automotive engineering.

--

fritz

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Aug 25, 2016 1:16:10 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: steelested

Re: 991.2 GT3

steelested:
drawing this all back to gt3

theres always going to be a faster car out there but that wouldnt be why you'd buy one -particularly in manual

This is the beauty of the GT3, straight line acceleration figures don't really matter. This is supposed to be a track car and using it as a weekend toy serves of course it's purpose too but whoever buys a GT3 doesn't want to be the fastest on the Autobahn, this is for sure. It wouldn't hurt however if Porsche would keep the power of the GT3 high enough to compete with at least the "lower level" super sportscars.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

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Aug 25, 2016 1:30:18 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: fritz

Re: 991.2 GT3

fritz:
12% isn't much?
Another aspect I didn't mention but which is always disregarded in these discussions is that an engine's power output figure is just a measure of its capability at one engine speed at wide-open throttle and under full load.
A comparison of torque curves over the whole rev range might be more revealing when it comes to discussing acceleration, not to mention possible influences of different drive train ratios.

12% is not enough to justify a 5 seconds difference in this power category.

However, you made a good point with the wide-open throttle and full load. Maybe McLaren is just not keeping a safety margin, maybe they haven't tested their car at extreme temperatures, maybe the engine is that durable that it doesn't matter, I don't have a clue but I am pretty sure that either the power claim (570 hp) is bogus or Audi and Porsche artificially "limit" their cars for whatever reasons. Since Audi artificially limits the torque of the R8 because of the gearbox, I wouldn't be surprised if there are other limitations, same goes to the Turbo S.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

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Aug 25, 2016 5:01:21 PM

noone1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Los Angeles , United States; Posts: 5587, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2009; Reply to: RC

Re: 991.2 GT3

Anyone seen a white R8 with a scratched hood around here?

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Aug 25, 2016 5:26:30 PM

Kobalt: Expert; Loc: Europe , Sweden; Posts: 1819, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 18, 2015; Reply to: noone1

Re: 991.2 GT3

Not me. But i have a BMW 525 that someone decided need improvement on the hood.

Upside is that it looked like something Miró done - who I like.

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Aug 25, 2016 9:56:22 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: noone1

Re: 991.2 GT3

noone1:
Anyone seen a white R8 with a scratched hood around here?

It isn't white, it is Suzuka Grey and I "got" it. Smiley

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

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Aug 29, 2016 5:00:10 AM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: 991.2 GT3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nVCZWbSvk4

First car in the video with 3036 licence plates is new 991.2 GT3

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Aug 29, 2016 6:20:35 AM

pmarkow: Rennteam Pro; Loc: cambridge , United Kingdom; Posts: 2277, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 28, 2014; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 991.2 GT3

looks pretty finished

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Aug 29, 2016 8:59:52 AM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: pmarkow

Re: 991.2 GT3

what is it with elasticity in 7th gear 80-120 km/h ? kinda strange that the car with the most torque needs double the time as the r8 ? has the Porsche lost all the boost ?

--
Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

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Aug 29, 2016 10:12:12 AM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: intouch1

Re: 991.2 GT3

intouch1:
what is it with elasticity in 7th gear 80-120 km/h ? kinda strange that the car with the most torque needs double the time as the r8 ? has the Porsche lost all the boost ?

Don't have data for the Turbo to hand, but I would guess that 80 km/h in its long 7th speed corresponds to about 1800 rpm, which is probably below the plateau of the engine's WOT torque curve. Smiley

--

fritz

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Aug 29, 2016 12:15:24 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: intouch1

Re: 991.2 GT3

intouch1:
what is it with elasticity in 7th gear 80-120 km/h ? kinda strange that the car with the most torque needs double the time as the r8 ? has the Porsche lost all the boost ?

On 991.2 Turbo 7th gear is very long overdrive. Max speed is achieved in 6th gear.

R8 V10 Plus (but ONLY V10 Plus!) use different gearbox ratios and top speed is achieved in 7th gear.

Btw, top speed in 7th gear is achieved by 488 GTB, Huracan and 991.1 GT3.

Top speed in 6th gear is achieved by 650S, 540C/570S and 991.2 Turbo since their gearboxes act like 6speed with overdrive (extremly long 7th gear).

Btw, just curious... What this subject has in common with this thread? Rennteam become off-topic heaven .

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Aug 29, 2016 12:17:02 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 991.2 GT3

KresoF1:
intouch1:
what is it with elasticity in 7th gear 80-120 km/h ? kinda strange that the car with the most torque needs double the time as the r8 ? has the Porsche lost all the boost ?

On 991.2 Turbo 7th gear is very long overdrive. Max speed is achieved in 6th gear.

R8 V10 Plus (but ONLY V10 Plus!) use different gearbox ratios and top speed is achieved in 7th gear.

Btw, top speed in 7th gear is achieved by 488 GTB, Huracan and 991.1 GT3.

Top speed in 6th gear is achieved by 650S, 540C/570S and 991.2 Turbo since their gearboxes act like 6speed with overdrive (extremly long 7th gear).

Btw, just curious... What this subject has in common with this thread? Rennteam become off-topic heaven .

I think Obama is to blame... Smiley

--

We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

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Aug 29, 2016 12:27:14 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 991.2 GT3

Well explained, Kreso kiss

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

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Aug 29, 2016 1:15:32 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 991.2 GT3

KresoF1:
intouch1:
what is it with elasticity in 7th gear 80-120 km/h ? kinda strange that the car with the most torque needs double the time as the r8 ? has the Porsche lost all the boost ?

On 991.2 Turbo 7th gear is very long overdrive. Max speed is achieved in 6th gear.

R8 V10 Plus (but ONLY V10 Plus!) use different gearbox ratios and top speed is achieved in 7th gear.

Btw, top speed in 7th gear is achieved by 488 GTB, Huracan and 991.1 GT3.

Top speed in 6th gear is achieved by 650S, 540C/570S and 991.2 Turbo since their gearboxes act like 6speed with overdrive (extremly long 7th gear).

Btw, just curious... What this subject has in common with this thread? Rennteam become off-topic heaven .

I had to cut my last post short, otherwise I would have added that the acceleration time for "80 to 120 km/h in top gear" has completely lost its significance in an age of 7-speed automated dual clutch transmissions, which would normally automatically downshift from 7th if the driver applied full throttle.

--

fritz

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Aug 29, 2016 10:15:32 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: fritz

Re: 991.2 GT3

It sounds turbo powered. surprise

--

To learn how to live is to learn how to hang on. To learn how to die is to learn how to let go.

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Aug 29, 2016 10:59:38 PM

bvineyards: Co-Pilot; Loc: napa valley, california , United States; Posts: 292, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2005; Reply to: nberry

Re: 991.2 GT3

nberry:
It sounds turbo powered.

Kreso and RC, please weigh in on this. It did not sound turbo to me but video sound sucks. Thanks.

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Aug 30, 2016 12:47:36 AM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: bvineyards

Re: 991.2 GT3

Definitely doesn't sound turbocharged if you listen to the first car (the one Kreso said) and especially as it drives away around the corner...

--

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

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Aug 30, 2016 5:33:59 AM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: Grant

Re: 991.2 GT3

Forthcoming 991.2 GT3 is definitely NA.

Regarding power... Maybe, it will get only 495ps. Reason is known.

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Aug 30, 2016 10:10:27 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 991.2 GT3

KresoF1:
Forthcoming 991.2 GT3 is definitely NA.

Regarding power... Maybe, it will get only 495ps. Reason is known.

kiss

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

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Aug 30, 2016 11:00:02 AM

Super Darius: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Italy-Como , Italy; Posts: 4084, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: 991.2 GT3

guys any updates on the RS MK2?

there will be or not?

i have strong offers for mine,and i don't whant to sell....but if we are sure there will be a MK2,maybe i can think about one time again...

--

997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS

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Aug 30, 2016 11:17:38 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Super Darius

Re: 991.2 GT3

Super Darius:
guys any updates on the RS MK2?

there will be or not?

i have strong offers for mine,and i don't whant to sell....but if we are sure there will be a MK2,maybe i can think about one time again...

If you have good offers I would sell before it is too late... There will be nice cars to chose from next year Smiley

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Aug 30, 2016 11:25:22 AM

BjoernB: Rennteam Master; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 4100, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 19, 2004; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: 991.2 GT3

RS models have always kept their values nicely - no rush - and maybe it was the last RS of it's Kind....

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Aug 30, 2016 11:44:12 AM

Super Darius: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Italy-Como , Italy; Posts: 4084, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: 991.2 GT3

MKSGR:
Super Darius:
guys any updates on the RS MK2?

there will be or not?

i have strong offers for mine,and i don't whant to sell....but if we are sure there will be a MK2,maybe i can think about one time again...

If you have good offers I would sell before it is too late... There will be nice cars to chose from next year

i know...and believe me is the first time this kind of thing happen to me...usually with car i loose only money and much!

the only alternative i see is the Gt2 RS,but is too much money for me,i can stay around 200/240 K euros...and the only car i "can/whant" is a 911.

so no much to choose...or the Gt3 RS MK2...or stay with my RS(that i love and that is still perfect).

BTW i know that if i whant to sell with a profit i must sell now,wait two months i think is just too much.

--

997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS

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Aug 30, 2016 12:33:14 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 991.2 GT3

KresoF1:
Forthcoming 991.2 GT3 is definitely NA.

Regarding power... Maybe, it will get only 495ps. Reason is known.

Definitely 4.0L?

--

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

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Aug 30, 2016 2:16:44 PM

bluelines: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Argovia , Switzerland; Posts: 11655, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 29, 2005; Reply to: Grant

Re: 991.2 GT3

Darius, I don't get why you want to sell the RS yes You waited for years because of production delays and after a short ownership you part with it? Keep it and enjoy it kiss That is why you got it, right.

--

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

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