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    May 3, 2005 8:24:52 PM

    W8MM
    Rennteam Master
    W8MM
    Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States
    Posts: 3993, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 8, 2003

    Carrera GT helmet recommendations? Air Bag?

    Hello one and all,

    I need a new helmet so I can drive the CGT at the track. My old one has a Snell 1980 rating

    I've taken the decision to buy a replacement

    1) I found this warning about not wearing full-face helmets in vehicles with active air-bag systems. There seems to be something of a controversy developing in various racers' forums as to the applicability of the underlying research to passenger car air-bag systems.

    Does anyone know what to thing about this in connection with driving a Carrera GT at the track?

    2) I've been looking at various helmet designs, both open- and full-face. I like the Bell higher-end "tri-weave" "Pro series" models in theory, since they are supposed to be lighter and therefore should add less momentum to my precious cranium than a heavier helmet might.

    Might anyone have some insight available to correct my weight vs safety theory?

    3) My hat size is sort of big 7-3/4 (62) or 7-7/8 (63), but my head tends to be long and narrow rather than more evenly symmetrical.

    Would anyone have any experience that might make my trial-and-error fitting ordeal more efficient?

    Thanks much in advance,

    May 3, 2005 8:29:01 PM

    ben, lj
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    ben, lj
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Carrera GT helmet recommendations? Air Bag?

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Hello one and all,

    I need a new helmet so I can drive the CGT at the track. My old one has a Snell 1980 rating

    I've taken the decision to buy a replacement

    1) I found <a href="www.mohud-scca.org/Info/download/ PB%2005-01%20Airbag%20Advisory.pdf" target="_blank"> this warning</a> about not wearing full-face helmets in vehicles with active air-bag systems. There seems to be something of a controversy developing in various racers' forums as to the applicability of the underlying research to passenger car air-bag systems.

    Does anyone know what to thing about this in connection with driving a Carrera GT at the track?

    2) I've been looking at various helmet designs, both open- and full-face. I like the Bell higher-end "tri-weave" "Pro series" models in theory, since they are supposed to be lighter and therefore should add less momentum to my precious cranium than a heavier helmet might.

    Might anyone have some insight available to correct my weight vs safety theory?

    3) My hat size is sort of big 7-3/4 (62) or 7-7/8 (63), but my head tends to be long and narrow rather than more evenly symmetrical.

    Would anyone have any experience that might make my trial-and-error fitting ordeal more efficient?

    Thanks much in advance,



    don't you want a full face for driving an open top car anyway? as well, the CGT can throw up pebbles into the driver's face. this has occured on the street on a couple of occassions to me and i would think it possible on the track also.

    May 3, 2005 8:34:18 PM

    W8MM
    Rennteam Master
    W8MM
    Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States
    Posts: 3993, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 8, 2003
    Reply to: ben, lj

    Re: Carrera GT helmet recommendations? Air Bag?

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    don't you want a full face for driving an open top car anyway? as well, the CGT can throw up pebbles into the driver's face. this has occured on the street on a couple of occassions to me and i would think it possible on the track also.



    Ben,

    Irrespective of the open-top issue, there seems to be a safety issue with possible jaw injuries when using a full-face design in air-bag equipped cars.

    SUBJECT: Airbag Advisory
    It has been brought to the attention of SCCA Technical Services that the use of full-face or closed-face helmets while driving vehicles with active airbag restraint systems may result in injuries in the event of a crash that deploys the airbag. Because of the location of the steering wheel relative to a driver's position, the airbag axis is on a level with the driver's chin. In a crash with airbag deployment, contact with the chin area of a full-face helmet can be so powerful "that the risk of fractures to the jaw cannot be ruled out" (Hubert Gramling, FIA Institute, FT3/AF, 18.5.1999). This applies to vehicle that may be used in Solo, RallyCross, High Performance Car Control Clinics, etc.

    Therefore, it is highly recommended that full-face helmets not be used in vehicles with functional airbag systems. Potentially more restrictive language is currently being considered for 2005, which could appear in an early 2005 issue of FasTrack. If you have any questions, please contact the SCCA at (800) 770-2055.

    May 3, 2005 8:38:02 PM

    ben, lj
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Carrera GT helmet recommendations? Air Bag?

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    don't you want a full face for driving an open top car anyway? as well, the CGT can throw up pebbles into the driver's face. this has occured on the street on a couple of occassions to me and i would think it possible on the track also.



    Ben,

    Irrespective of the open-top issue, there seems to be a safety issue with possible jaw injuries when using a full-face design in air-bag equipped cars.



    i don't know how an airbag could penetrate a full face to mess with your jaw.

    May 3, 2005 8:40:52 PM

    W8MM
    Rennteam Master
    W8MM
    Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States
    Posts: 3993, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 8, 2003
    Reply to: ben, lj

    Re: Carrera GT helmet recommendations? Air Bag?

    You're too fast.

    Please see edited edition above.

    May 3, 2005 8:45:46 PM

    ben, lj
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    ben, lj
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Carrera GT helmet recommendations? Air Bag?

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    You're too fast.

    Please see edited edition above.



    thanks. that makes sense but personally i'd stick with the full face anyway. the cgt as you no doubt know by now is MUCH more fun with the tops off and a full face is required for tracking open top cars. besides, i'd imagine jaw (and more) injury is just as possible with an open face since your entire face is exposed.

    May 3, 2005 8:49:39 PM

    fritz
    Rennteam VIP
    fritz
    Loc: BaWü , Germany
    Posts: 10248, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 23, 2003
    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Carrera GT helmet recommendations? Air Bag?

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    2) I like the Bell higher-end "tri-weave" "Pro series" models in theory, since they are supposed to be lighter and therefore should add less momentum to my precious cranium than a heavier helmet might.




    Mike,
    You could do worse than to address this question directly to Bell. A large manufacturer of the product concerned will be up-to-speed with such controversies, and might be prepared to let you have their views on the pros and cons of different helmet designs for your application, within the limits that their legal department (product liability syndrome!) will allow.

    You could then arrive at your own conclusions re validity of the views expressed. Since Bell makes full-face and open helmets, I would be inclined to think that they would give a neutral assessment of the suitability of the different types for your use.

    May 3, 2005 9:12:43 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Carlos from Spain
    Loc: Spain. , Spain
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Carrera GT helmet recommendations? Air Bag?

    Mike,

    Check out Stand21 (www.stand21.fr) I always have heard the best things about them for car helmets. Very very light weight, you can adapt a HANS to and even to their open-face one!, aerodinamic, top quality build, Snell SA 2000, etc. even made-to-measure for those with diff shaped heads

    May 3, 2005 10:45:19 PM

    Seth
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    Loc: Nevada, USA
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Carrera GT helmet recommendations? Air Bag?

    Snell now has released their 2005 standard and a few helmets are on the market that meet it. The ones I've seen advertised were closed face.

    May 3, 2005 11:22:56 PM

    Justin
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    Justin
    Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
    Posts: 979, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 12, 2003
    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Carrera GT helmet recommendations? Air Bag?

    Hi Mike,

    I would go with a closed face helmet anyway. That SCCA warning was very premature IMO and they don't seem to present any conclusive scientific tests to prove what they are saying. Furthermore, the language of the notice uses very passive language such as "may", and from a very old source. Why haven't there been more follow ups to this in the past six years? Anyway, I'm interested in this too, and will continue to research it on the web. However, at this point I'm still very much in the favor of a close face helmet. At autox, where the speeds are much lower and the risk of hitting something is low, an open face may be desirable due to greater vision and better communication with my instructor.

    Currently doing a group buy for communicator headsets in my helmet so that I don't have to shout with my instructor. Seems like a good idea if you want to communicate with a passenger.

    Ben is also right about the stones getting into the cockpit. If I follow a car with sticky tires too closely, it happens more than I'd like in my Elise.

    Lastly, you can use the same helmet for karting, if you wish.

    Cheers,
    J

    May 4, 2005 2:03:12 PM

    iia
    Pilot
    iia
    Loc: Canada
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    Reply to: ben, lj

    Re: Carrera GT helmet recommendations? Air Bag?

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    thanks. that makes sense but personally i'd stick with the full face anyway. the cgt as you no doubt know by now is MUCH more fun with the tops off and a full face is required for tracking open top cars. besides, i'd imagine jaw (and more) injury is just as possible with an open face since your entire face is exposed.


    Don't you want to put the top ON when you're on the track because of areodynamic?

    May 4, 2005 2:15:52 PM

    ben, lj
    Expert
    ben, lj
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    Reply to: iia

    Re: Carrera GT helmet recommendations? Air Bag?

    Quote:
    iia said:
    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    thanks. that makes sense but personally i'd stick with the full face anyway. the cgt as you no doubt know by now is MUCH more fun with the tops off and a full face is required for tracking open top cars. besides, i'd imagine jaw (and more) injury is just as possible with an open face since your entire face is exposed.


    Don't you want to put the top ON when you're on the track because of areodynamic?



    unless you are racing for money, what's a little wind drag compared to the extra rush of sensations from the open top experience? it would be akin to keeping it on when on the street to save gas :-)

    May 4, 2005 5:10:39 PM

    W8MM
    Rennteam Master
    W8MM
    Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States
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    Reply to: iia

    Re: Carrera GT helmet recommendations? Air Bag?

    Quote:
    iia said:
    Don't you want to put the top ON when you're on the track because of areodynamic?



    Well, in my case, I can't comfortably fit in the car with a helmet on my head and the top panels in place, too.

    I'm 6'4" (1,93 m) tall , so the choice is moot for me. Track driving = roof panels off.

    P.S. I have an Arai GP-5 and a Stand 21 F21 double-duty both on their way to see which one suits my head best.

    May 4, 2005 9:14:42 PM

    MAVERICK Offline
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    MAVERICK
    Loc: Cincinnati, OH (USA) , United States
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Carrera GT helmet recommendations? Air Bag?

    It may not prevent a broken jaw, but it will distribute the impact of a blow across as wide an area as possible:
    http://www.pacpubserver.com/new/health/r-s/hm1213.html

    May 5, 2005 12:54:40 AM

    Senninha
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    Senninha
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    Reply to: MAVERICK

    Re: Carrera GT helmet recommendations? Air Bag?

    Mike, I use the Arai GP-5 and love it. It's very light and small which makes it very comfortable.
    Good Luck, Darren

    May 5, 2005 5:51:44 PM

    Porsche Fan
    Junior
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    Reply to: Justin

    Re: Carrera GT helmet recommendations? Air Bag?

    WHEN AND WHERE IS THE 1ST TRACK DAY GOING TO BE FOR YOU MIKE?
    I HAVE ALREADY BEEN OUT TWICE.. PUTNAM AND MID OHIO THIS YEAR. MAN I HAD FORGOTTEN HOW MUCH I LIKED MID OHIO I AM SURE THE CGT WILL BE A BLAST ON THE TRACK AS IT WILL BE IN IT'S ELEMENTS..
    -CEM

    May 5, 2005 6:29:28 PM

    W8MM
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    W8MM
    Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States
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    Reply to: Porsche Fan

    Re: Carrera GT helmet recommendations? Air Bag?

    Quote:
    Porsche Fan said:
    WHEN AND WHERE IS THE 1ST TRACK DAY GOING TO BE FOR YOU MIKE?
    -CEM



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