Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Reason for throttle hesitation? Solution found? - Page1

May 3, 2005 10:58:29 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002

Reason for throttle hesitation? Solution found?

It seems that the "infamous" throttle hesitation is caused by the eGas setup and not by the gearbox hardware/software.
It can be corrected by changing the eGas parameters in the DME but apparently Porsche isn't interested in doing this or maybe there is a more reasonable reason why they don't want to offer a fix.
Fact is: it can be corrected and we may have found somebody who is willing to offer a fix (changed DME software) for people who are interested in such a fix but of course this isn't for free.

This software change would imply a eGas "adaptation" only to avoid getting warranty problems. However it can't be excluded that Porsche voids the warranty anyway, even if the power stays the same. But I think it would be a problem for them to prove that the engine has been damaged by a changed eGas setup only.
Of course the power can be raised too with such a DME change but be aware that in such a case, your Porsche warranty is gone for sure.

Right now we want to sort things out with that person who may offer such a fix as an aftermarket solution how much he charges for it and how it could be shipped to the US too.

Again: this is not an official solution and it might not even be possible in the end but we're trying our best to make it happen.

Just stay tuned for more over the next few weeks.

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May 3, 2005 11:25:47 AM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Reason for throttle hesitation? Solution found?

This is great news and interesting information RC!

How was it determined that the transmission was not involved?

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May 3, 2005 11:57:19 AM

N11KOY: Junior; Loc: London(UK),Athens(GR) , Greece; Posts: 149, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2003; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: Reason for throttle hesitation? Solution found?

The other day when I was driving my CS, I was thinking of the hesitation issue... Then while i was in parking mode and stepping on the gas, i found out that the response of the gas pedal was not immediate, ie the rpms increased after a while having stepped on the gas pedal... Then i went and did the same test on my brothers touareg, there the response was immediate. The same problematic response on the throttle i have with the SL55, i have also taken it in to the dealer but it has not been fixed... I would be very interested in a fix of the throttle responce in my CS! And RC u must be right with ur find, it shouldnt be the transmission but the eGas set up!

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May 3, 2005 12:34:59 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: Reason for throttle hesitation? Solution found?

Quote:
GM Austin said:
This is great news and interesting information RC! How was it determined that the transmission was not involved?

Very simple: the "fix" works by modifying the DME only.

I forgot to add: the person we spoke to referred to the Cayenne Turbo only. I don't know if he has experience with the Cayenne S.

BTW: I drove a Cayenne S with MANUAL transmission today.
Although it allows a sportier shifting, there still is that throttle lag to my surprise. So we seem to be on the right track: it is very likely that the eGas setup is the problem.
And liability issues may be involved because imagine a Cayenne Turbo "shooting forward" with full boost when slightly applying the throttle...it could cause desaster in the wrong hands. My suspicion is that Porsche has chosen this setup to allow housewifes to drive the Cayenne Turbo too. And furthermore, it seems to have something to do with off-roading too, you don't want to have even little boost when off-roading at very low speeds. Too much torque could end in desaster too. Difficult decision for Porsche, I just wonder why they're not honest with us and tell us the reason for the throttle lag. There must be some logic behind it.

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May 3, 2005 12:52:24 PM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Reason for throttle hesitation? Solution found?

Your analysis seems good, especially the Cayenne S manual you drove. It does seem to implicate the e-gas as the culprit. The chief mechanic at my dealer said essentially the same thing. I still don't see why it has to be this way though, even with the Turbo. Couldn't we engineer in a gradual tip-in throttle with an eventual spring loaded kick-down/max-throttle point? If the throttle hesitation is Porsche's solution to a "too much power for the housewife" concern, then it is a poor solution indeed; one that creates as many problems as it solves. But still, it might be true.

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May 3, 2005 1:41:05 PM

ISUK: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 4206, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: Reason for throttle hesitation? Solution found?

I'm on the verge of making a decision on buying a V6 Cayenne but the thing that is holding me back is the hesitation to throttle response and the gearbox's apparent reluctance to hold a gear to let you accelerate. It always seems to want to shift to as high a gear as possible which is very frustrating. I'm used to driving BMW automatics and they respond instantly to throttle inputs and hold lower gears for longer when left in Drive Sport mode. Do you know if the issue you are talking about here also affects the V6 or is the drivetrain in this model just poor?

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May 3, 2005 3:30:01 PM

jamy85: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 73, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 21, 2004; Reply to: ISUK

Re: Reason for throttle hesitation? Solution found?

RC, Lag issues is probably even worse on the S. Please let us know if it will ge available on the Cayenne S since i am very interested.

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May 3, 2005 4:16:15 PM

ISUK: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 4206, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: jamy85

Re: Reason for throttle hesitation? Solution found?

I have spoken to 2 tuning companies in the UK today and both offer remaps of the DME on the V6 offering an increase of around 24bhp and 26lbft of torque which they say greatly improves the driveability of the car and significantly reduces the throttle lag issue. Both tuners say the remap is undetectable by Porsche. How true this is I can't say. Both charge around Pounds700.

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May 3, 2005 6:11:35 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: ISUK

Re: Reason for throttle hesitation? Solution found?

Since the hesitation is e gas related, perhaps Porsche could follow Land Rover by offering different driver controlled settings for throttle response. The LR3 and RR Sport have a switch that lets you select for street, snow, mud, sand and gravel. That way all conditions are provided for.

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May 3, 2005 7:03:32 PM

DEETZ: Senior; Loc: Cambridge, MA; Posts: 559, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 3, 2004; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Reason for throttle hesitation? Solution found?

RC: Is the throttle lag designed to make the fuel consumption better, so we don't drive as aggresive

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May 3, 2005 7:48:40 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Reason for throttle hesitation? Solution found?

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Since the hesitation is e gas related, perhaps Porsche could follow Land Rover by offering different driver controlled settings for throttle response. The LR3 and RR Sport have a switch that lets you select for street, snow, mud, sand and gravel. That way all conditions are provided for.

The next Cayenne generation gets such a possibility but right now we're "stuck" with what we have.

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May 3, 2005 7:58:56 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: ISUK

Re: Reason for throttle hesitation? Solution found?

Quote:
ISUK said:
I have spoken to 2 tuning companies in the UK today and both offer remaps of the DME on the V6 offering an increase of around 24bhp and 26lbft of torque which they say greatly improves the driveability of the car and significantly reduces the throttle lag issue. Both tuners say the remap is undetectable by Porsche. How true this is I can't say. Both charge around Pounds700.

ANY DME mod can be detected by Porsche (even by the dealer if he's clever enough to know what to look for), they're lying. The 24 HP claim is not very realistic. You can gain around TRUE 20 HP by adding a new exhaust with new high flow cats, sport airfilters and a new DME programming.
But one good advice: DON'T DO IT. Leave normally aspirated cars alone, DME tuning is only "good" for turbo charged engines. You're just shortening the life span of your normally aspirated engine, incl. the risk of a premature engine failure. Not worth it for 24 HP (if true

) more.

For the Cayenne Turbo, 50-60 REAL HP gain by a simple software mod are possible. Everything which goes beyond 550 HP needs a hardware mod too like bigger turbo chargers, etc.

And a last word: even if you gain 24 HP, I doubt that you're gonna "feel" it, the Cayenne is pretty heavy. And regarding the throttle hesitation, I'm not sure the V6 is really affected.

From my past experience and judging by the feedback we get all the time from our users and friends, etc., be very careful with companies who offer just a DME mod and don't have other mods available. The so called "chip tuners" are usually selling inferior quality and they don't do individual adaptations. Especially "I send you a new DME unit, send me back your old one" actions are pretty weird. Especially since there are various software versions used by Porsche during the lifespan of a car production.

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May 23, 2005 9:52:39 AM

JGriff: Newbie; Loc: PA; Posts: 5, Gallery; Registered on: May 23, 2005; Reply to: ISUK

Re: Reason for throttle hesitation? Solution found?

Quote:
ISUK said:
I'm on the verge of making a decision on buying a V6 Cayenne but the thing that is holding me back is the hesitation to throttle response and the gearbox's apparent reluctance to hold a gear to let you accelerate. It always seems to want to shift to as high a gear as possible which is very frustrating. I'm used to driving BMW automatics and they respond instantly to throttle inputs and hold lower gears for longer when left in Drive Sport mode. Do you know if the issue you are talking about here also affects the V6 or is the drivetrain in this model just poor?

I bought a 2005 Cayenne V6 about a month ago (now with 1100 miles on it) and have not experienced any throttle lag at all... at least none that I can detect. I traded in a 2001 Audi allroad, and it had a major throttle lag related to drive-by-wire. So far, the Cayenne has been fantastic.

I do agree that it upshifts too early, and there is a bit of lag sometimes noticeable when it shifts into third. (Perhaps that is what everyone is talking about? Sorry for my ignorance... I am new to the Cayenne world and to this forum.) Because of the early upshifting, I usually drive in manual mode. Better throttle response, nice engine/exhaust note when you rev it up a bit more than the auto tranny wants to, and faster acceleration.

The lag in the allroad was hugely noticeable when you slowed down to stop and then got back on the gas, or when you were pulling away from a stop. It was not only very annoying, but downright dangerous. I haven't found the Cayenne to be anywhere near this bad... at least not in one month's time.

My advice... buy the Cayenne.. and don't hesitate to buy the V6. The Cayenne is a great vehicle... and the best all-around SUV out there... no matter which model.

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May 23, 2005 3:04:01 PM

Mick: Pilot; Loc: SouthEastern PA, USA; Posts: 363, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 30, 2003; Reply to: JGriff

Re: Reason for throttle hesitation? Solution found?

Hey JGRIFF did you get it from Holberts ?

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May 24, 2005 12:34:46 AM

JGriff: Newbie; Loc: PA; Posts: 5, Gallery; Registered on: May 23, 2005; Reply to: Mick

Re: Reason for throttle hesitation? Solution found?

Quote:
Mick said:
Hey JGRIFF did you get it from Holberts ?

Nope... my Cayenne was bought at Sun Motor Cars in Camp Hill.

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