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Mar 5, 2022 7:04:36 PM
- CGX car nut
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Re: [2022] Formula 1
Mercedes looking controversial, Horner apparently not amused :)
https://twitter.com/karunchandhok/status/1501858344012759045?s=21
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1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF
Mar 10, 2022 1:26:31 PM
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kudryavchik
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Re: [2022] Formula 1
F1 cars porpoising reminded me 919 evo lap in spa. https://youtu.be/5VYYNIfLiNo
Because of this 919 evo couldnt reach projected 1.36.xxx projected lap time. However, by nurburgring they could eliminate this problem
Re: [2022] Formula 1
Gary Anderson explains Mercedes’ radical F1 sidepods
The first thing to say is that Mercedes has really gone to town on minimising McLaren’s sidepod cooling solution.
I criticised Ferrari for having clunky sidepods, so now it’s necessary to find a word for the opposite of that! We can call them slimline sidepods, and the whole package is not dissimilar to what Williams has come up with so it must be possible to come up with a cooling package to fit within that slender body package.
The first question is, does the Mercedes design comply with the regulations? And even more importantly, given this is what the teams will be asking the FIA, does it comply with the ‘intention of the regulations’?
The regulations demand that teams have to supply CAD data to the FIA to allow it to give an opinion on it before it hits the track, so from that I would say that, yes, it does all comply.
I’d also suggest Mercedes is not a team to get led up the garden path by erroneous windtunnel results, so I’m pretty sure it will have researched this concept to death before hitting the manufacturing button. That’s is why it didn’t make an appearance at the first pre-season test in Barcelona.
Mercedes has exploited the use of the outer turning vane and made it more into a standalone bargeboard. The radiator inlet is now more vertical than all the others and the forward upper crash structure is a standalone component and shrouded in a dramatic turning vane that also mounts the rearview mirror. It also has some small vertical turning vanes in this area.
The initial part of the underfloor is raised slightly and reveals the ends of the turning vanes that are under the leading edge of the underfloor. These will be working to generate outwash to pull some of the airflow out from that front of the floor, allowing the diffuser to work on the airflow that is going under the floor more centrally.
With this sidepod package, Mercedes will be creating outwash low down while still allowing efficient flow front to rear above the cyan line on the sidepods.
This will generate the vortices that help with sealing the floor further rearward, but also allow high levels of mass flow through to the beam wing and over the upper surface of the diffuser.
Mercedes has radiator outlet louvres in various places to assist with the cooling package, which still has its main outlet at the rear of the engine cover. The engine cover itself is more bulbous than before, again to house some of the cooling requirements.
To get an idea of how it all works, I’ve put some potential airflow arrows on the Mercedes size-zero sidepods.
The blue lines are airflow through the radiator and out of the louvres on the corner of the sidepod-to-engine-cover side. The yellow lines would be the flow lines as they go over the sidepod.
The green lines go into the lower corner of the radiator duct and, from what I can see, come out of the small sidepod duct. This will mean that when the radiator can’t flow anymore, there is a route for that airflow spillage without affecting the flow around the rest of the sidepod.
The red lines are the flow over the upper surface of the floor and the outer surface of the new-style bargeboards. This outwash is what sets up the vortices (magenta) to help seal the outer edge of the floor. This improves the performance of the underfloor and diffuser by generating a lower pressure under the car.
Mercedes has also added a body stay to support the rear corner of the floor. The regulations have load tests for this area, but if the floor is stiff enough in its own right then it will not flow upward when a driver goes wide over a kerb so it would be very easy to damage it. These stays will simply deflect in compression but will stop the floor from flexing downwards.
Mercedes has also incorporated a new front wing in this package. This is fairly similar to the Barcelona version with a slower change of shape as it sweeps inwards to the side of the nose. This will reduce transverse airflow that can affect the performance of components further downstream.
As we have seen on many occasions, looks are not everything but I have to say this concept looks interesting and seems like it might just achieve more than the opposition has managed.
However, the more efficiently it works and the more downforce it generates the bigger the chance of generating an uncontrolled porpoising effect, so somewhere along the line Mercedes will need to find the compromise between the out-and-out downforce produced from the underfloor and not making the driver sick or shaking their eyeballs out of their sockets.
Testing will give us a better picture, but doubtless it will still be a little blurred until we get to the actual race weekend. For now, it’s great to see all the different solutions to these new regulations.
Mar 10, 2022 4:10:25 PM
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kudryavchik
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Re: [2022] Formula 1
I think there will not be any issues. Mechanically and from internals point of view the car is the same. Simply different bodywork (as merc says). There are more questions - is this a viable design, porpoising is critical. Merc is running like a horse. Clearly rb and mclaren made a right decision on suspension (from what the tests show)
But any way, amazing amazing car. I love extreme designs. Even mclaren mp4-17 - what a car that was! Wow. Never raced but...
Re: [2022] Formula 1
Obviously it is, or else the FIA won't let them get on the track.
And we thought Red Bull was the master of disguise, showing one car and debuting another completely different car.
Mercedes has justo one upped them big time.
Here is what make Mercedes different than say Red Bull or Ferrari. They always go to the FIA first and ask can this be done, can that be done. If that's a no, then how about this the way.
That's how they got DAS in before.
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Mar 10, 2022 6:53:02 PM
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kudryavchik
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Reply to:
Whoopsy
Re: [2022] Formula 1
Whoopsy:Obviously it is, or else the FIA won't let them get on the track.
And we thought Red Bull was the master of disguise, showing one car and debuting another completely different car.
Mercedes has justo one upped them big time.
Here is what make Mercedes different than say Red Bull or Ferrari. They always go to the FIA first and ask can this be done, can that be done. If that's a no, then how about this the way.
That's how they got DAS in before.
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Wait for updated rb tomorrow
Re: [2022] Formula 1
Whoopsy:Obviously it is, or else the FIA won't let them get on the track.
And we thought Red Bull was the master of disguise, showing one car and debuting another completely different car.
Mercedes has justo one upped them big time.
Here is what make Mercedes different than say Red Bull or Ferrari. They always go to the FIA first and ask can this be done, can that be done. If that's a no, then how about this the way.
That's how they got DAS in before.
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But for my understanding, teams can change aero package as much as they like during testing? Is the shape of the car frozen at some point? Or can they change it during the season as well (aside from lo/hi downforce packages to accommodate the tracks).
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1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF
Re: [2022] Formula 1
Porker:Whoopsy:Obviously it is, or else the FIA won't let them get on the track.
And we thought Red Bull was the master of disguise, showing one car and debuting another completely different car.
Mercedes has justo one upped them big time.
Here is what make Mercedes different than say Red Bull or Ferrari. They always go to the FIA first and ask can this be done, can that be done. If that's a no, then how about this the way.
That's how they got DAS in before.
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But for my understanding, teams can change aero package as much as they like during testing? Is the shape of the car frozen at some point? Or can they change it during the season as well (aside from lo/hi downforce packages to accommodate the tracks).
They can even during the season for the aero stuff, see all teams have different 'barge boards' at different races. Or different floor edges and stuff.
The whole side pod is a bit on the extreme side however🤣 Such a great head fake by Mercedes.
But the FIA did signed off on those. So they are perfectly legal under the current regulations, but as Brawn said, it is built within the current regulations to the letter but may not be complying with the 'spirit' of the rules.
And everyone wonders why Mercedes debuted a car that looks mostly similar to last year's car. Now we know that's just a Trojan horse.
That new package looks extremely low drag. Together with the new regulations making car easier to follow, they should be quite good at passing other cars. Concerns would be if they can cool their engines adequately, especially in traffic.
Newey is gonna have some long nights for sure.
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Mar 14, 2022 9:29:17 PM
- CGX car nut
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Re: [2022] Formula 1
Oh Mother! In other F1 news, the driver formerly known as Lewis Hamilton is changing his name. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10611417/amp/Lewis-Hamilton-says-changing-SURNAME-include-mothers-maiden-Larbalestier.html
Guess this is the extent of his mind games against Russell and Verstappen.
Mar 14, 2022 9:31:08 PM
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kudryavchik
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Mar 14, 2022 10:41:48 PM
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kudryavchik
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Re: [2022] Formula 1
Marco should go out of RB and F1 as a whole. Hope its his last season
Mar 15, 2022 6:44:04 AM
- Joost
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Re: [2022] Formula 1
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/60758648
So after 3 months of a whole lot of nothing, the FIA decision is exactly as what I have said right after the race.
The closest there has been to an explicit admission of that fact by the FIA has been an interview by executive director of single-seaters Peter Bayer.
He said that, had Mercedes pursued their appeal, it would likely have been decided that "it's different in the regulations, he [Masi] decided that [other] way, so we could just void the result".
Had the race been declared void, Verstappen would still have been champion as he started the event ahead in the championship by virtue of results count back.
And this bit also from Peter Bayer, which I have explained before as per the rulebook. Mercedes has a fail proof case but even if they win Hamilton won't be champion, as they would just void the Abu Dhabi results and Max win on counback. But there will be commerical implications for Formula 1 as voiding the the result woudl measn the race didn't take place and they had to refund Abu Dhabi.
Still don't get it why some Max fans want to argue just for argument sake with coloured glasses back then. I stated numerous times I am only going by the FIA rulebook, which driver I favoured has no bearing on my statements as the statements are made from the outside looking back in only using the rulebook as a neutral.
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