All about demand.
McLaren make a lot less cars than Ferrari yet most dealers are stuck with brand new cars on the lot unsold and needed to be discounted. Ferrari dealers on the other hand mostly only have 2nd hand cars sitting on the lot above MSRP, especially for the 'in' cars.
Image problem. People perceived that buying a McLaren means losing an arm and a leg after a while, that's why people stay away no matter how good their cars are. McLaren needs to change that image, starting with not keep pumping out face lifts after face lifts and then the dealers need to help to by propping up the trade in price.
Whoopsy:4trac:Whoopsy:But even Aston cannot survive alone now, with the partnership with AMG, lets see how long McLaren can last.
I've always thought a McLaren-Pagani would be an interesting car.... and corporate combination. Pagani would add the exuberance some feel is lacking in the McLaren....
Horacio Pagani and Ron Dennis partnered up?
2 extremely OCD and controlling persons running a partnership?
Yes, and the other part of the joke was the huge corporate resources and R&D that Pagani brings..... But in all seriousness a partner for any company who is in F1 is more limited, since you can't be seen to partner with any of your F1 competitors. In this sense it was much easier for Aston to pick a partner.
2011 Range Rover Sport S/C, 2009 Porsche 911S
Or McLaren could sell itself to Honda or Toyota....................
Honda has the F1 partnership already with McLaren, surely that V6 turbo in the NSX will be a perfect fit for the next McLaren sports car like how Ford did with a V6 in the FGT.
Partnering with Toyota means they can pool resources for both F1 and LMP1 racing. Perhaps even steal that sweet V10 from LFA for sports car usage!
Aug 20, 2016 4:21:02 AM
Aug 20, 2016 8:01:10 AM
RC:Seriously? You think a bi-turbo charged V6 "960" could survive next to a V10 R8? Even with a bi-turbo V8, the "960" could have issues because people would still go for the R8. The main reason I got my R8 is the engine. I assume that this is the same reason for most R8 buyers out there. A 960 would only make sense when there is no R8 anymore...or if Audi switches to a bi-turbo V8 or V6 as well. The R8 cannot be "superior" (engine) to the "960" out of marketing reasons.
So my assumption is: If there will be a "960", the R8 will be no more or both cars will use a similar engine base. The Audi would probably be substantially cheaper, while the "960" would compete in a different price (and maybe even performance) category. Without V10 engine, Audi would sell probably not even half the numbers of the R8 they sell now, so I guess when the V10 disappears, the R8 could disappear for good as well. Then, the way for a "960" would be wide open... The fate of the R8 will come with the new Porsche sportscar platform (next 911, also good for mid engined setup, etc.) and if VW Group decides to offer a next generation R8 on that (very flexible) platform. I highly doubt however that the V10 engine will survive..
Yes seriously, I do think there´s a great market for the 960, and the R8 woudn´t be competition to this model for obvious reasons. Of course I´m not talking about a V6 engine, Porsche wouldn´t make such mistake on a mid engine exotic model.
J.Seven
Aug 23, 2016 8:52:15 AM
what's this hating McLaren with you..... U had such bad experience with ur 12C?? 12C and 675LT are two complete different product already, and this is from my personal experience.... don't know about 688HS, but the car had been progress over times already since 12C, u should give it a try and not hating McLaren soo much..... give it a second try!!!
Aug 23, 2016 9:30:36 AM
huangester:what's this hating McLaren with you..... U had such bad experience with ur 12C?? 12C and 675LT are two complete different product already, and this is from my personal experience.... don't know about 688HS, but the car had been progress over times already since 12C, u should give it a try and not hating McLaren soo much..... give it a second try!!!
I assume Nick comes around a lot and sees/drives a lot of cars, so I guess he has/had a (bad) experience he couldn't forget.
I like the 675LT but I don't know if I would pay 340k EUR (base price in Germany) for this car...
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)
Aug 23, 2016 12:26:22 PM
huangester:what's this hating McLaren with you..... U had such bad experience with ur 12C?? 12C and 675LT are two complete different product already, and this is from my personal experience.... don't know about 688HS, but the car had been progress over times already since 12C, u should give it a try and not hating McLaren soo much..... give it a second try!!!
I don't hate McLaren, as I have said it many times, I am waiting for their next proper new product, not just a face lift that is called 'new'. Changing the body kit and tuning up power does not make a 'new' car.
But unlike others, I don't drink their Kool-Aid, I don't blindly believe everything their press release says, not just McLaren but everyone else. I see things as they are and speak my mind without reservation.
You should have probably noticed by now, McLaren, Ferrari, Porsche, no exception, if they have something wrong, I trash them publicly here in forum. You have read about it plenty here, not even the mighty 918 can escape being criticized.
I loved how my 12C drives, I raved about it for the longest time. I also drove most variants already, from 570 to 650 to P1, well I didn't yet on the 675 nor the 688. To use Porsche as a scale, all the 12C variants are like 911 variants, it's just goes up in power. But basically the same car. 12C is like the C2, 650S the C2S, the P1 is like the Turbo S. 570 has a really different interior so it might considered a Cayman/Boxster. But in the Porsche's grand scheme of things, at least they provide a very different engine in the GT3/GT3RS, not so with McLaren. Ferrari also has 2 distinct choices of engines, V12 and V8s, same with Lamborghini with V12s and V10s.
But at the end of the day, current McLarens feels like they are all 991.2 variants, and I am waiting for the 992 series from McLaren.
RC:huangester:what's this hating McLaren with you..... U had such bad experience with ur 12C?? 12C and 675LT are two complete different product already, and this is from my personal experience.... don't know about 688HS, but the car had been progress over times already since 12C, u should give it a try and not hating McLaren soo much..... give it a second try!!!
I assume Nick comes around a lot and sees/drives a lot of cars, so I guess he has/had a (bad) experience he couldn't forget.
I like the 675LT but I don't know if I would pay 340k EUR (base price in Germany) for this car...
used ones go for about £350k here which I think is ridiculous. To be sincere the car is just a jacked up 12C nothing more
Whoopsy:But at the end of the day, current McLarens feels like they are all 991.2 variants, and I am waiting for the 992 series from McLaren.
So I guess we just found the reason I got myself the R8 instead of another 911. It seems we are pretty much alike (not financially I'm afraid)
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)
Whoopsy:huangester:what's this hating McLaren with you..... U had such bad experience with ur 12C?? 12C and 675LT are two complete different product already, and this is from my personal experience.... don't know about 688HS, but the car had been progress over times already since 12C, u should give it a try and not hating McLaren soo much..... give it a second try!!!
I don't hate McLaren, as I have said it many times, I am waiting for their next proper new product, not just a face lift that is called 'new'. Changing the body kit and tuning up power does not make a 'new' car.
But unlike others, I don't drink their Kool-Aid, I don't blindly believe everything their press release says, not just McLaren but everyone else. I see things as they are and speak my mind without reservation.
You should have probably noticed by now, McLaren, Ferrari, Porsche, no exception, if they have something wrong, I trash them publicly here in forum. You have read about it plenty here, not even the mighty 918 can escape being criticized.
I loved how my 12C drives, I raved about it for the longest time. I also drove most variants already, from 570 to 650 to P1, well I didn't yet on the 675 nor the 688. To use Porsche as a scale, all the 12C variants are like 911 variants, it's just goes up in power. But basically the same car. 12C is like the C2, 650S the C2S, the P1 is like the Turbo S. 570 has a really different interior so it might considered a Cayman/Boxster. But in the Porsche's grand scheme of things, at least they provide a very different engine in the GT3/GT3RS, not so with McLaren. Ferrari also has 2 distinct choices of engines, V12 and V8s, same with Lamborghini with V12s and V10s.
But at the end of the day, current McLarens feels like they are all 991.2 variants, and I am waiting for the 992 series from McLaren.
What else is McLaren supposed to do? Release the 12C then nothing then the 570? I like their approach. Improve the product, release as soon as ready. It works as long as the next product is either better or different design than the previous one.
Aug 23, 2016 4:17:25 PM
Boxster Coupe GTS:
McLaren may have an ace up their sleeve if they release a new 3-seater mid-engined coupe...
That, would be the game changer.
But it will also be the thorn that pierced their lies.
They had maintained that they couldn't do a 3 seater for the F1 successor because of crash regulations. If they ended up producing a 3 seater, then the truth about the P1 will come out, that it is not really a F1 successor but a pure money grab off the 12C platform. Which is what I had been saying for the longest time.
--
Whoopsy:
I don't hate McLaren, as I have said it many times, I am waiting for their next proper new product, not just a face lift that is called 'new'. Changing the body kit and tuning up power does not make a 'new' car.
@Whoopsy I know you are fair across the board with your comments. However, it really is time you had an extended drive in a 675LT - there is life beyond the GT3RS .
crayphile:Whoopsy:
I don't hate McLaren, as I have said it many times, I am waiting for their next proper new product, not just a face lift that is called 'new'. Changing the body kit and tuning up power does not make a 'new' car.
@Whoopsy I know you are fair across the board with your comments. However, it really is time you had an extended drive in a 675LT - there is life beyond the GT3RS .
Yeah 918, 911R, GT4Clubsport, FF, F12...
I will go on record though that I expect the Clubsport to last max 1.5 seasons before it's replaced with something faster.
Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region
crayphile:Whoopsy:
I don't hate McLaren, as I have said it many times, I am waiting for their next proper new product, not just a face lift that is called 'new'. Changing the body kit and tuning up power does not make a 'new' car.
@Whoopsy I know you are fair across the board with your comments. However, it really is time you had an extended drive in a 675LT - there is life beyond the GT3RS .
I know, working on a Huracan Spyder
crayphile:Whoopsy:
I don't hate McLaren, as I have said it many times, I am waiting for their next proper new product, not just a face lift that is called 'new'. Changing the body kit and tuning up power does not make a 'new' car.
@Whoopsy I know you are fair across the board with your comments. However, it really is time you had an extended drive in a 675LT - there is life beyond the GT3RS .
That is why he got a GT4
2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White
SciFrog:What else is McLaren supposed to do? Release the 12C then nothing then the 570? I like their approach. Improve the product, release as soon as ready. It works as long as the next product is either better or different design than the previous one.
Exactly. Other than perhaps residuals, I don't see why people who can afford it would not want constantly improved cars. If you know what it is, why worry about what marketing claims it to be? You either like it or you don't.
Aug 24, 2016 7:49:30 PM
Whoopsy:Boxster Coupe GTS:
McLaren may have an ace up their sleeve if they release a new 3-seater mid-engined coupe...
That, would be the game changer.
But it will also be the thorn that pierced their lies.
They had maintained that they couldn't do a 3 seater for the F1 successor because of crash regulations. If they ended up producing a 3 seater, then the truth about the P1 will come out, that it is not really a F1 successor but a pure money grab off the 12C platform. Which is what I had been saying for the longest time.
--
Thats the thing though. It may be just like the last one and be for select markets only. Markets where they don't have to worry about things like crash safety and pedestrians.
When my sister learnt of the accident, she commented "knowing you, you will go out and buy another car".
She is so right. Today I just pulled the trigger on this:
Maybe picking it up Monday or something.
Yes it's not black, but I don't see myself keeping it for long anyway.