Crown
Board: Other Sports Cars
Language: English
Region: Worldwide
Close
CloseForum - Thread
Apr 25, 2005 12:48:21 PM
- palenimbus
- Expert
-
- Loc: Baden-Württemberg, Germany
- Posts: 1824, Gallery
- Registered on: Jul 6, 2004
- Reply to: GPdriver
Re: Informal M5 test in Sweden
Well if it as fast as claimed, so be it.
That would also make the M6 king of coupes, until you need to repeatedly use the brakes in mountain driving, then BMW's other title, King of the Gaurdrail will reveal itself.
The most bogus thing about all BMW's is something that Porsches do not suffer from, and that is inside rear wheel lift on decreasing radius off camber corners. Once you have accellerated a BMW into that kind of curve and experienced
inside wheel lift that spins you off the road, you will never consider a BMW again for anything. Even the most aged and humble of Porsches have a better suspension set up.
Bring on the 500hp Panamara !
That would also make the M6 king of coupes, until you need to repeatedly use the brakes in mountain driving, then BMW's other title, King of the Gaurdrail will reveal itself.
The most bogus thing about all BMW's is something that Porsches do not suffer from, and that is inside rear wheel lift on decreasing radius off camber corners. Once you have accellerated a BMW into that kind of curve and experienced
inside wheel lift that spins you off the road, you will never consider a BMW again for anything. Even the most aged and humble of Porsches have a better suspension set up.
Bring on the 500hp Panamara !
Re: Informal M5 test in Sweden
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
... until you need to repeatedly use the brakes in mountain driving, then BMW's other title, King of the Gaurdrail will reveal itself.
Jim, that's one of the best encapsulations of BMW's penchant for big motors and weenie brakes I've read!
Quote:
The most bogus thing about all BMW's is something that Porsches do not suffer from, and that is inside rear wheel lift on decreasing radius off camber corners. Once you have accellerated a BMW into that kind of curve and experienced inside wheel lift that spins you off the road, you will never consider a BMW again for anything.
The above may be why my DE instructor (early '80s) told me that there was one very important thing to remember when circulating a road course with BMWs at speed,
"Absolutely do NOT follow 320s too closely! Give them plenty of room!"
Re: Informal M5 test in Sweden
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
The most bogus thing about all BMW's is something that Porsches do not suffer from, and that is inside rear wheel lift on decreasing radius off camber corners. Once you have accellerated a BMW into that kind of curve and experienced
inside wheel lift that spins you off the road, you will never consider a BMW again for anything. Even the most aged and humble of Porsches have a better suspension set up.
Jim, what is your source for the above statements? Also, is the Cayenne immune as well?
Apr 26, 2005 4:18:41 AM
- Jeff (in SF)
- Pilot
-
- Loc: SF, CA, USA , United States
- Posts: 340, Gallery
- Registered on: Nov 13, 2003
- Reply to: MAVERICK
Re: Informal M5 test in Sweden
Quote:
MAVERICK said:Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
The most bogus thing about all BMW's is something that Porsches do not suffer from, and that is inside rear wheel lift on decreasing radius off camber corners. Once you have accellerated a BMW into that kind of curve and experienced
inside wheel lift that spins you off the road, you will never consider a BMW again for anything. Even the most aged and humble of Porsches have a better suspension set up.
Jim, what is your source for the above statements? Also, is the Cayenne immune as well?
Not only that but why would any sane driver be accelerating INTO a curve? And for that matter, you can't be serious about earlier Porsches handling decreasing radius curves with apparent ease - I assume you've heard of "lift off oversteer"
Apr 26, 2005 5:53:04 AM
- JimFlat6
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: Cave , United States
- Posts: 8633, Gallery
- Registered on: Jul 25, 2004
- Reply to: Jeff (in SF)
Re: Informal M5 test in Sweden
Quote:
Jeff (in SF) said:Quote:
MAVERICK said:Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
The most bogus thing about all BMW's is something that Porsches do not suffer from, and that is inside rear wheel lift on decreasing radius off camber corners. Once you have accellerated a BMW into that kind of curve and experienced
inside wheel lift that spins you off the road, you will never consider a BMW again for anything. Even the most aged and humble of Porsches have a better suspension set up.
Jim, what is your source for the above statements? Also, is the Cayenne immune as well?
Not only that but why would any sane driver be accelerating INTO a curve? And for that matter, you can't be serious about earlier Porsches handling decreasing radius curves with apparent ease - I assume you've heard of "lift off oversteer"
My source for the above is from my own experience with BMW's on the track and on the street, including the M3's and a 95 325. I dont know what a Cayenne would do.
Even a early 70's Porsche 911 can accellerate through a UPHILL decreasing radius off camber curve. I know it because I have done it MANY times.
Now, for your "lift off" oversteer remark. Don't lift off in the middle of a corner. Either brake late and power thru
or, if you are Walter Rohl, you can use lift off oversteer
to pivot the car in a tight corner, but that really takes some finesse!
Re: Informal M5 test in Sweden
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
My source for the above is from my own experience with BMW's on the track and on the street, including the M3's and a 95 325. I dont know what a Cayenne would do.
Even a early 70's Porsche 911 can accellerate through a UPHILL decreasing radius off camber curve. I know it because I have done it MANY times.
And do you actually feel that one rear wheel lifting off the ground? What happens next? Do you lose complete control and the car spins? I'd like to see if this happens in my car if I can find such a corner...
Apr 27, 2005 5:36:40 AM
- Jeff (in SF)
- Pilot
-
- Loc: SF, CA, USA , United States
- Posts: 340, Gallery
- Registered on: Nov 13, 2003
- Reply to: JimFlat6
Re: Informal M5 test in Sweden
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Even a early 70's Porsche 911 can accellerate through a UPHILL decreasing radius off camber curve. I know it because I have done it MANY times.
Now, for your "lift off" oversteer remark. Don't lift off in the middle of a corner. Either brake late and power thru
or, if you are Walter Rohl, you can use lift off oversteer
to pivot the car in a tight corner, but that really takes some finesse!
Sorry but I have to call BS on this. The technique of driving a rear engine car - particularly an earlier model with the torsion bar suspension and prior to any multilink suspension, is to brake late, stabilize the car and hold a steady throttle until you get to the apex and then power towards the exit. Even if the curve is uphill as you describe, gravity's effect of putting more weight on the rear of the car will not allow you to ACCELERATE through a decreasing radius curve as easily as you're implying - i.e. accelerate before you reach the apex. Whether the acceleration you describe is positive (increasing velocity by applying the gas) or negative (decreasing velocity meaning you're off the throttle), this is nonsense.
Forum
About Rennteam | Help | Terms of use | Privacy Policy | Support | Contact | Imprint | Archive
Powered by
Community
and
