Crown

Nick, I love how you grow. Your mind is expanding as well.

The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

Oh here is a new method of calculating cost per mile range.

https://www.businessinsider.com/electric-vehicles-cost-more-per-mile-range-than-gas-cars-2022-2

More proof that doing that calculation is pointless. 

Whoopsy:

Oh here is a new method of calculating cost per mile range.

https://www.businessinsider.com/electric-vehicles-cost-more-per-mile-range-than-gas-cars-2022-2

More proof that doing that calculation is pointless. 

Actually it is proof the authors likely don’t own an EV. Those are some of the most abused numbers and stats ever. Period. First there is an insane comparison of cost per mile looking at essentially the size of a gas tank vs the size of a battery. Just weird and dumb. Followed by some other cost per miles perhaps based on supercharging.  
Does he mention the most common use case - charging at home for 1.5 cents per miles. I do this 99% of the time and so does everyone else. If he mentioned that his headline would fall apart even more than it does once you read and understand the facts. 
This is hardly an excuse that comparisons can’t be made. These writers simply can’t   
range comparison between EV are still perfectly valid as is how many miles per stop/hour you can charge ( although that stat is virtually useless unless on road-trips). 
In light of recent gas prices the headline is very very misleading. Not to mention maintenance  costs. 
I vote the article 100% FUD.

You are aware of the two greatest failings suffered by journalism majors.............math.

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

Oh here is a new method of calculating cost per mile range.

https://www.businessinsider.com/electric-vehicles-cost-more-per-mile-range-than-gas-cars-2022-2

More proof that doing that calculation is pointless. 

Actually it is proof the authors likely don’t own an EV. Those are some of the most abused numbers and stats ever. Period. First there is an insane comparison of cost per mile looking at essentially the size of a gas tank vs the size of a battery. Just weird and dumb. Followed by some other cost per miles perhaps based on supercharging.  
Does he mention the most common use case - charging at home for 1.5 cents per miles. I do this 99% of the time and so does everyone else. If he mentioned that his headline would fall apart even more than it does once you read and understand the facts. 
This is hardly an excuse that comparisons can’t be made. These writers simply can’t   
range comparison between EV are still perfectly valid as is how many miles per stop/hour you can charge ( although that stat is virtually useless unless on road-trips). 
In light of recent gas prices the headline is very very misleading. Not to mention maintenance  costs. 
I vote the article 100% FUD.

Any data can be interpreted into representing anything.

To calculate the true cost for $ per mile for any car. First one has to factor in the purchase cost. Then also the disposal cost at the end of life. Tally up all the spendings in between, divide that number by miles driven, that final number is the only true cost per mile driven. 

Not cherry picking one number, skip the next, add a 3rd and disregard the 4th. 

There is no valid 'running' cost per mile driven as the appreciation/depreciation of the car per mile driven isn't factored into the calculation. 

Say you buy a $60k Tesla taxed in. Your first 300 miles or so from the full tank's cost will be $60,000/$300 that's $200 per mile.

Each top off charge will add to that initial $60k. Each mile driven after will drive down the cost per mile. Each service, be it windshield fluid purchase or tires will also add to the initial $60k. 

If at end of life you sell the car for $30k, then your total cost will drop by $30k. By the same token, if at the end of life you sell the car for more than you paid for, there is a chance that you get paid for every mile driven.

Simple math that factors in everything involved to drive one mile. 

Given your math my car is virtually free for two years and 35 k miles so far.  I paid $56 k. $250 in Oregon license fees for three years. No taxes. Total insurance has been $600. Fuel cost at an average of 1.5 cents per mile are also around $600. Let’s call it $57,500 since I went to the car wash now and then (tesla maintenance).

Feel free to check my cars value at KBB.com.  Private party purchase is as much as $56 k.   
You suffered more costs in the first 24 hours of all your car purchases counting just depreciation than I have in 24 months of Tesla ownership taking all costs into account including insurance and car washes  lol  

Of course not everyone buys like I do.  Some buy every other EV on the planet regardless of the facts just to prove a very weird point.  Or maybe the waiting period to get delivery is too long  

Leawood911:

Of course not everyone buys like I do.  Some buy every other EV on the planet regardless of the facts just to prove a very weird point.  Or maybe the waiting period to get delivery is too long  

Really Leawood, it's ridiculous, do you think Nick bought all those other not-Tesla EVs (that you haven't even tested) because he wants to prove a weird point? you are so down the rabbit hole that the only way your mind can make sense of someone not buying a Tesla is by attributing it some obscure irrational reason, because nothing in the world is better than a Model 3 or Tesla.

Reality is that some people don't care about saving a few bucks on milage or maintenance costs or being driven around by a level 2 driver assistance system, they simply want to drive something better, that's it.

You know I’m just being entertaining. Too much war talk. Enjoy the distraction 

To each his own - always. 

Carlos from Spain:

Leawood911:

Of course not everyone buys like I do.  Some buy every other EV on the planet regardless of the facts just to prove a very weird point.  Or maybe the waiting period to get delivery is too long  

Really Leawood, it's ridiculous, do you think Nick bought all those other not-Tesla EVs (that you haven't even tested) because he wants to prove a weird point? you are so down the rabbit hole that the only way your mind can make sense of someone not buying a Tesla is by attributing it some obscure irrational reason, because nothing in the world is better than a Model 3 or Tesla.

Reality is that some people don't care about saving a few bucks on milage or maintenance costs or being driven around by a level 2 driver assistance system, they simply want to drive something better, that's it.

Gonna buy a Polestar, a Kia, a Hyundai, a Bolt and also a e-Mini soon just so I can say I have had every good EV for sale. 

Am I missing anything else?

Oh the Mercedes EQS too. And the BMW iX. Think that just about covered the whole EV market. 

Running cost is literally the very last item on my priority list. Every JD Powers surveys I get I ranked that attribute dead last. I care more about the shape of the rear view mirror more. Heck, I had to look at the mirror hundreds times a day. 

If I actually care about running cost, I wouldn't be taking 300km round trip joy rides. Every week. 

Driving enjoyment tops everything. 

Imagine someone taking out their Tesla and do a autonomous Sunday morning drive and then sit down at a coffee shop talking about what a great satisfying drive that was

Whoopsy:

Imagine someone taking out their Tesla and do a autonomous Sunday morning drive and then sit down at a coffee shop talking about what a great satisfying drive that was

 you joke but they are already doing that testing the beta FSD... and paying $ for it on to of it!  

Carlos from Spain:

Whoopsy:

Imagine someone taking out their Tesla and do a autonomous Sunday morning drive and then sit down at a coffee shop talking about what a great satisfying drive that was

 you joke but they are already doing that testing the beta FSD... and paying $ for it on to of it!  

I don’t pay or like FSD but I did put 34 k miles on in two years while working from home because it is that GOOD. I would hardly ever miss a Friday or Saturday night for stop light racing or just cruising around. Far far more often than I would do with the turbo in the past. Every time I drive it I am blown away by how much fun it is to drive. Amazingly quick and crazy good handling.  This from someone who has driven Porsches since 15 years old. 800k+ miles driving 911s.  It is by far the most radically quick and fun car I have driven or owned.  Make fun of it all you want. It is the central reason the stock is where it is. Perhaps you should watch the videos of the Model3 eating up an M3 in silence.  You may not like that it makes no noise but I would pay extra for that. To each his own.   None of the other EV come close to the speed or fun for the money.  

Good for you, to each his own as your said, for me I hope many many years pass until I prefer a 2 ton 4-door gearless silent EV sedan that drives me around over driving a 911.

Been 2 months since I got my 4xe Wrangler. 2500km already. Every time I drive it it blows my mind how much fun it is to drive a Jeep. Unbelievable handling and exceptional speed going over speed bumps. Leaving all the Teslas and others in the dust! 

Stop light racing is so last century, the new in thing is to take speed bumps at full speed. Don't think any of my previous cars can match. Maybe the G63, but that one don't quite have the body control like the Wrangler. 

Actually scratch that, my last Wrangler, a Rubicon was close. Nothing beats a Jeep.

You should see how I eat Model Xs and Model Ys for breakfast lunch and dinner without breaking a sweat. I clearly hear a crunch from a Model X the other day when it tried to match. Another time, a Range Rover turned into a bobble head after taking a speed bump at speed, too funny to watch.

Oh, did I mention the Jeep makes no noise either? Silent Tesla killer the Jeep is in electric mode. 

Been a couple of decades, but I remember the fun of speeding up for speed bumps.

It's a Jeep thing.

500 hp Ford 150s take bumps the best.  Pic of me and a pal in the Baja 1000 in 1973.

Carlos from Spain:

Good for you, to each his own as your said, for me I hope many many years pass until I prefer a 2 ton 4-door gearless silent EV sedan that drives me around over driving a 911.

That was my view too, until I test drove the Taycan Turbo CS which quickly change that view.

It drives as well as any NA Porsche any you don’t notice weight difference much, if at all, on public roads. On a track maybe, but it is not built for that anyway. The instant and brutal power delivery makes most 911 seem like a Fiat 500.

Of course, it is lacking the sound compared to an NA. So if this is important then you have to see if the other things make up for it. To me it does.

Gladstone:

Been a couple of decades, but I remember the fun of speeding up for speed bumps.

It's a Jeep thing.

 

When the last remaining talking point is how fast you can go over speed bumps … I think we need a top ten list here. 
Personally I am ready to concede the prized speed bump / sleeping policeman award to Jeep. Well done. 

Convincing someone who has not driven a fast EV that it is boring is easy.  Me not so much. The shove never ever gets old. The silence is a bonus as police who watch don’t even think twice about it. Like it’s a speed cloak. I passed a local Leawood cop in the typical Ford Explorer during a snow storm last week. He was barely able to go 20 and I eased by him at the 35 limit (holding back). Got a big thumbs up from him.  
After five days with the flu my wife wanted to get out of the house. Her choice was to go for a two hour Tesla drive around town last night.  It is like a magic carpet with a view and crazy good sound system.  Doing this for fun in the Turbo would never be on her list. (Me, of course. After I took her home at midnight I went for another hour in the Turbo but I was much more nervous about being pulled over). 

Well, got my Taycan Turbo and my 911 Turbo cal in the same week last year January. If I drive the Taycan I think this the best car I have ever owned. Next day driving the 911 Turbo I think the same. I hope I can enjoy driving both cars for a long time. But have to honest if I have to go on long trip (600 km of more) I prefer the Taycan. The charging or range is (certainly here in Europe) a no issue. It is only an issue for people how do not own an electrical car.

JR-550:

Well, got my Taycan Turbo and my 911 Turbo cal in the same week last year January. If I drive the Taycan I think this the best car I have ever owned. Next day driving the 911 Turbo I think the same. I hope I can enjoy driving both cars for a long time. But have to honest if I have to go on long trip (600 km of more) I prefer the Taycan. The charging or range is (certainly here in Europe) a no issue. It is only an issue for people how do not own an electrical car.

Best of both 

Never had an issue with the charging either. 

bluelines:

JR-550:

Well, got my Taycan Turbo and my 911 Turbo cal in the same week last year January. If I drive the Taycan I think this the best car I have ever owned. Next day driving the 911 Turbo I think the same. I hope I can enjoy driving both cars for a long time. But have to honest if I have to go on long trip (600 km of more) I prefer the Taycan. The charging or range is (certainly here in Europe) a no issue. It is only an issue for people how do not own an electrical car.

Best of both 

Never had an issue with the charging either. 

We are all in the same boat. Nice.  Thanks guys. 

So just before I got a chance to trade in the old Taycan for the pink one, some idiot decided to do a blind left turn right in front........

Delivery of the pink pig will have to wait a bit. Dealing with insurance right now and with parts in short supply, especially the headlight which due to the chip shortage, don't even have a eta.

With that however, I get to go rent a car on the insurance company's expense and I have picked up a Polestar 2. 

Wow. That Polestar 2 is something. Fit and finish is superb. I am a leather guy, I love leather interior. The Polestar don't have any yet the interior is lush. Think it cost around the same as a Model 3. Night and day difference for the interior. It shows if a company doesn't waste money on pointless processors and cameras for useless functions, they can put those extra money on improving other aspect of the car in a certain price point. My girlfriend positively love the interior, she much prefer this over her dad's Model 3. 

It drives super nice, swift enough even with only 400hp. The low end torque of the motors helped a lot.

Biggest down side is the touch screen in the middle. At least the climate control stays even when switching screens. But doing anything else is at least a couple touches away if not more. Like, why can't they keep the map displayed full time, while also leaving media control there full time like the climate control. Should also have display are dedicated to drive functions. Someone need to learn how to do proper user interface for car touchscreens. The screen quality however is top notch, very clear and bright. And at least there is a big volume knob in the console, thank god. 

The 'instrument cluster' display is weird. There is only 2 display choices, one is a full map display background with speed and energy gauge pushed to both lower corners. The other choice is a giant black screen with the speed and energy gauge front an centre, literally wasting all the space there. There could have been so much more information display ideas. 

The seats are super comfortable. Side mirrors looked a bit odd as they filled the whole shell, so there isn't a 'gap' between the mirror and the shell. 

The 'standard' setting for lift off regen is like hitting a brick wall when you lift the throttle, so unnatural and dangerous. The 'off'' setting is just that, off, the car will coast, almost forever. There is a 3rd setting between the 2 extreme, 'low'. That one seems ideal. It provides just the right amount of braking when lifting, almost feel like aero drag. 

All in all, I am mighty impressed by the Polestar. Can't comment on the range yet, as I picked up the car at 64% charge, showing 240km range left. Still got plenty of range left before needing a charge. Will report back later on real world range with a full charge. 

I am gonna have this thing in the driveway fro at least a month if not more, depending on how tolerant the insurance company is paying $5000 a month on car rental for me Maybe they will decided that between paying $50k in parts, and being sued for accelerated depreciation AND 5k a month for car rental, they are between off writing off the silver Taycan. 

Sorry to hear about the accident. Thank goodness you are okay. And you get to love another non Tesla EV. Funny how all those other EVs are not as successful as one would expect following your review. Something is clearly wrong with everyone. 
I suggest trading in the Taycan as is with the insurance settlement pending. It may actually guarantee you get a good price for it. 
btw the volume knob for the Tesla is under your left thumb on the steering wheel. All controls you need are right there. Wipers on a stalk and everything.  

What is meant by not as successful? What's the metric?

If it means it's not selling in great numbers, well that would be skewed by the length of time Tesla is in the market isn't it?

By the same metric, Tesla aren't successful at all when compared with say a Civic or Corolla isn't it? Honda been making Civic for what? 30 years? 40 years? it has to be very successful if it stayed in production for so long. and Honda been selling them in great numbers every year. 

The local Tesla store still has about 20ish unsold Teslas on the lot, while the Polestar dealer has zero car. Does that mean no one wants a Tesla while the Polestar is the hot item? The Rivian store also don't have any to sell. Lucid has a long wait list also. Porsche dealers are also out of Taycans. They have no stock, incoming Taycans are all sold custom ordered cars. Dealers actually wanted some cars for stock but Porsche just can't keep up with demand right now.

Insurance company forbid title change while a car is under repair. So it cannot be used as a trade in until it is fixed. 

Did I compared the Polestar's volume knob with Tesla? Did you know up until last year, the Honda Ridgeline only has a touch screen control volume 'slider'? They took away the knob and that was one of the worse thing about the Ridgeline.

Best thing about non-Tesla EVs? They all uses industrial standard plug. The one home charger I have in the garage can charge any EV, I am not locked into only Teslas. The plug can go into a Porsche, a Audi, A Jeep, and now a Polestar. If I buy a GM EV, or a KIA EV? Same plug. it will also charges my incoming Ford F150 Lightning. also. One plug to rule them all.

Sorry to hear about the crash. At least you are unhurt. Lots of idiots on the roads !

Make sure you secure a car ASAP. It will be very difficult to get any Porsche in the coming month if they have not been already built. 

Glad to hear you are OK Nick

Sorry sorry for your mishap, glad you are OK. 

You just reminded me to better not have an accident these days with a modern car because spare parts availability is a bitch right now, indeed. 

Yes, Polestar is quite nice but I think that BMW is going to be the next real Tesla competitor. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

Whoopsy:

What is meant by not as successful? What's the metric?

If it means it's not selling in great numbers, well that would be skewed by the length of time Tesla is in the market isn't it?

By the same metric, Tesla aren't successful at all when compared with say a Civic or Corolla isn't it? Honda been making Civic for what? 30 years? 40 years? it has to be very successful if it stayed in production for so long. and Honda been selling them in great numbers every year. 

The local Tesla store still has about 20ish unsold Teslas on the lot, while the Polestar dealer has zero car. Does that mean no one wants a Tesla while the Polestar is the hot item? The Rivian store also don't have any to sell. Lucid has a long wait list also. Porsche dealers are also out of Taycans. They have no stock, incoming Taycans are all sold custom ordered cars. Dealers actually wanted some cars for stock but Porsche just can't keep up with demand right now.

Insurance company forbid title change while a car is under repair. So it cannot be used as a trade in until it is fixed. 

Did I compared the Polestar's volume knob with Tesla? Did you know up until last year, the Honda Ridgeline only has a touch screen control volume 'slider'? They took away the knob and that was one of the worse thing about the Ridgeline.

Best thing about non-Tesla EVs? They all uses industrial standard plug. The one home charger I have in the garage can charge any EV, I am not locked into only Teslas. The plug can go into a Porsche, a Audi, A Jeep, and now a Polestar. If I buy a GM EV, or a KIA EV? Same plug. it will also charges my incoming Ford F150 Lightning. also. One plug to rule them all.

That is some amazing rationale. Applause. 
By metric I will go with EV units sold/produced and by market cap. I think that is enough. 
You keep mentioning the cars on the lot. You realize there are many reasons for them to be there. The fact remains you have to order them online and the online site tells you what the wait is.  Maybe there are exception but few can travel up to Canada to buy from your local dealer.  Still, I suspect they don’t have any you can walk up and buy.  It would be the exception. 
The reason the others are sold out is pretty meaningless. Maybe they are not as vertically integrated and can’t make them presently. 
I appreciate the fact that you like all the other EVs so much. They just don’t have any appeal to me. They don’t have the software, tech, performance or resale value. Not to mention safety, reliability and style. I hate the conventional car interiors but lack planning and design integration imho. 
but seriously - I’m glad you are okay and we’re not hurt.  Best of luck with the insurance. Will this cause your rates to go up?  Could have been the 918!   Thanks for all the fun debates. 

Gnil:

Sorry to hear about the crash. At least you are unhurt. Lots of idiots on the roads !

Make sure you secure a car ASAP. It will be very difficult to get any Porsche in the coming month if they have not been already built. 

Yeah the replacement aka the pink pig has arrived a few weeks ago, I just didn't have time to head over to take delivery.

My GT4RS that's due in the summer however is questionable right now.

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

What is meant by not as successful? What's the metric?

If it means it's not selling in great numbers, well that would be skewed by the length of time Tesla is in the market isn't it?

By the same metric, Tesla aren't successful at all when compared with say a Civic or Corolla isn't it? Honda been making Civic for what? 30 years? 40 years? it has to be very successful if it stayed in production for so long. and Honda been selling them in great numbers every year. 

The local Tesla store still has about 20ish unsold Teslas on the lot, while the Polestar dealer has zero car. Does that mean no one wants a Tesla while the Polestar is the hot item? The Rivian store also don't have any to sell. Lucid has a long wait list also. Porsche dealers are also out of Taycans. They have no stock, incoming Taycans are all sold custom ordered cars. Dealers actually wanted some cars for stock but Porsche just can't keep up with demand right now.

Insurance company forbid title change while a car is under repair. So it cannot be used as a trade in until it is fixed. 

Did I compared the Polestar's volume knob with Tesla? Did you know up until last year, the Honda Ridgeline only has a touch screen control volume 'slider'? They took away the knob and that was one of the worse thing about the Ridgeline.

Best thing about non-Tesla EVs? They all uses industrial standard plug. The one home charger I have in the garage can charge any EV, I am not locked into only Teslas. The plug can go into a Porsche, a Audi, A Jeep, and now a Polestar. If I buy a GM EV, or a KIA EV? Same plug. it will also charges my incoming Ford F150 Lightning. also. One plug to rule them all.

That is some amazing rationale. Applause. 
By metric I will go with EV units sold/produced and by market cap. I think that is enough. 
You keep mentioning the cars on the lot. You realize there are many reasons for them to be there. The fact remains you have to order them online and the online site tells you what the wait is.  Maybe there are exception but few can travel up to Canada to buy from your local dealer.  Still, I suspect they don’t have any you can walk up and buy.  It would be the exception. 
The reason the others are sold out is pretty meaningless. Maybe they are not as vertically integrated and can’t make them presently. 
I appreciate the fact that you like all the other EVs so much. They just don’t have any appeal to me. They don’t have the software, tech, performance or resale value. Not to mention safety, reliability and style. I hate the conventional car interiors but lack planning and design integration imho. 
but seriously - I’m glad you are okay and we’re not hurt.  Best of luck with the insurance. Will this cause your rates to go up?  Could have been the 918!   Thanks for all the fun debates. 

in case you missed it, Vancouver is the biggest market for Tesla on a per capita basis. EV sales are strong here, more so than any US city by the same metric. Helps a lot when gas is over CAD$2 a litre now. We had always had the highest gas price in Canada so EV had always been popular, especially with all the self labeled greenie west coast people.

Tesla has been them default choice for so long. It's like going to your favourite restaurant and keep ordering the same steak. But the same restaurant's chicken, fish, seafood and pasta are also superb, just that not enough people try them.

All these new competitors bring different attributes to the segment. Not every one wants to spend the money buying numerous cameras on the car and a powerful processor for autopilot usage which they do not use, they would much rather have those money invested in better fit and finish and material usage. Polestar, Ioniq 5 are in the same price bracket as a Model 3, Y, and while they are short on processing power, they excel in interior, which every buyer will spend time in. 

Nick, how is your dealer going handle the trade in now that it has been involved in an accident? 

The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.