Crown

Board: Motor Sports Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Whoopsy:

    Keep trying to convince yourself that Red Bull isn't a privateer team. Your conspiracy machine is running full steam dude.

    Red Bull never started off with Renault engines, did you know that? They have ran Ford, Ferrari, Renault, and now Honda engines with their own chassis. <--- That's the classic definition of a privateer team, sourcing engine from someone else to run on their own chassis. Next year they will be a full constructor works team with their own branded engine on their own chassis. 

    Will VAG become a deep pocket team like Mercedes or Ferrari when they finally enters F1? Nah. We will never know, as there will be a cost cap for every team. But would they if there aren't a cap? Nah, they will still spend like a Renault, or else they could have joined F1 a while ago before there is a cap.

    You are free to believe in your own ideas, just that no one else will be. 

    Whoopsy, you are totally lost in budgets. Budget cap is made for teams (and only for chassis dev), not for engine development. Engine side has no caps. There will be the freeze until new engines come.

    For your info merc invests 40 mil euro in team (maybe a bit more). All other money are from sponsors and f1 itself. If you like autosport and want analyse, once again, my advice, read more serious literature, not motorsport and autosport. Or you can talk to Jacques, I am sure he can give you some insights. That would be the best 

    I wont comment other - I give you info, you give me motorsport.com articles. If I want motorsport.com "analytics" mixed with coffee and donuts, Ill go there, not to rennteam


    --

     

    sportcars-history.com

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    thuggy:

    Severely doubt VAG would have been a heavy spender like Mercedes and Ferrari.   The core argument of introducing the budget cap in the first place was to attract new manufacturers (ie VAG) and retain existing (ie Renault) who would not (not could not) spend at the same levels as Mercedes and Ferrari.

    Interesting fact about 919. By the end of lifecycle in 2017 after the introduction of passive jet ignition they were able to achieve 44% thermal eff. Considering the fact they ran e20 - 20 ethanol regulated fuel (ethanol has much less BTU) their achievement was awesome. Also, I tend to believe that they measured it without the front mguk. That means that they are potentially surpassed merc with 50% (these guys measured eff with f1 fuel of course made for their engine and with mguk (which is built into engine)). These wec cars were trully awesome. Of course much less comp ratio 13 to 1 against 18 to 1, but the reason is reliability and lower revs. The lower the revs the harder to achieve the higher comp ratio because of detonation risk caused by longer time at high dead point


    --

     

    sportcars-history.com

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    kudryavchik:
    Whoopsy:

    Keep trying to convince yourself that Red Bull isn't a privateer team. Your conspiracy machine is running full steam dude.

    Red Bull never started off with Renault engines, did you know that? They have ran Ford, Ferrari, Renault, and now Honda engines with their own chassis. <--- That's the classic definition of a privateer team, sourcing engine from someone else to run on their own chassis. Next year they will be a full constructor works team with their own branded engine on their own chassis. 

    Will VAG become a deep pocket team like Mercedes or Ferrari when they finally enters F1? Nah. We will never know, as there will be a cost cap for every team. But would they if there aren't a cap? Nah, they will still spend like a Renault, or else they could have joined F1 a while ago before there is a cap.

    You are free to believe in your own ideas, just that no one else will be. 

    Whoopsy, you are totally lost in budgets. Budget cap is made for teams (and only for chassis dev), not for engine development. Engine side has no caps. There will be the freeze until new engines come.

    For your info merc invests 40 mil euro in team (maybe a bit more). All other money are from sponsors and f1 itself. If you like autosport and want analyse, once again, my advice, read more serious literature, not motorsport and autosport. Or you can talk to Jacques, I am sure he can give you some insights. That would be the best 

    I wont comment other - I give you info, you give me motorsport.com articles. If I want motorsport.com "analytics" mixed with coffee and donuts, Ill go there, not to rennteam


    --

     

    sportcars-history.com

     

     

    Keep trying to convince yourself that Renault spent nearly as much as Mercedes did on engines.

    With that kind of results, all those involved would have been sacked 10 times over. Renault has their own internal spending cap for engine developments, it's not a black hole for them to keep dumping money in. Renault-Nissan aren't the most profitable or successful car maker to start off with you know? 

    Oh, and whatever you sent me via pm, mostly junk, can't be bothered with. 


    --

     

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    I understand your dissapointment, but you write the total mess. You totally dont understand the financial model the f1 teams work and you are totally out of technology there. Maybe your knowledge in this field is enough for basics on forums, but the deeper we go, the worse. Typical fan talk, 0 analysis.

    Ok, if you call junk racecar engineering, racer, automobil sport, josef katz books, motorfan, race tech, race engine technology journals, then there is nothing to discuss. Small hint - these journals are like Nature for scientists. 

    P.s. Of course, even the guys like Ludwigsen make the mistakes in books, f.e. he made some mistakes with the engine origin of Ferrari 212 montagna (its not a dino but 1512 sibling), but what he has written is substantial to understand motorsports and its roots.
    --

     

    sportcars-history.com

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Whoopsy:
    kudryavchik:
    Whoopsy:

    Keep trying to convince yourself that Red Bull isn't a privateer team. Your conspiracy machine is running full steam dude.

    Red Bull never started off with Renault engines, did you know that? They have ran Ford, Ferrari, Renault, and now Honda engines with their own chassis. <--- That's the classic definition of a privateer team, sourcing engine from someone else to run on their own chassis. Next year they will be a full constructor works team with their own branded engine on their own chassis. 

    Will VAG become a deep pocket team like Mercedes or Ferrari when they finally enters F1? Nah. We will never know, as there will be a cost cap for every team. But would they if there aren't a cap? Nah, they will still spend like a Renault, or else they could have joined F1 a while ago before there is a cap.

    You are free to believe in your own ideas, just that no one else will be. 

    Whoopsy, you are totally lost in budgets. Budget cap is made for teams (and only for chassis dev), not for engine development. Engine side has no caps. There will be the freeze until new engines come.

    For your info merc invests 40 mil euro in team (maybe a bit more). All other money are from sponsors and f1 itself. If you like autosport and want analyse, once again, my advice, read more serious literature, not motorsport and autosport. Or you can talk to Jacques, I am sure he can give you some insights. That would be the best 

    I wont comment other - I give you info, you give me motorsport.com articles. If I want motorsport.com "analytics" mixed with coffee and donuts, Ill go there, not to rennteam


    --

     

    sportcars-history.com

     

     

    Keep trying to convince yourself that Renault spent nearly as much as Mercedes did on engines.

    With that kind of results, all those involved would have been sacked 10 times over. Renault has their own internal spending cap for engine developments, it's not a black hole for them to keep dumping money in. Renault-Nissan aren't the most profitable or successful car maker to start off with you know? 

    Oh, and whatever you sent me via pm, mostly junk, can't be bothered with. 

    "Keep trying to convince yourself that Renault spent nearly as much as Mercedes did on engines." - where have I written that Renault spent the same money as Mercedes? Total mess Whoopsy


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    kudryavchik:

    Ok, if you call junk racecar engineering, racer, automobil sport, josef katz books, motorfan, race tech, race engine technology journals, then there is nothing to discuss. Small hint - these journals are like Nature 

    This doesn’t make any sense at all.


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    spudgun:
    kudryavchik:

    Ok, if you call junk racecar engineering, racer, automobil sport, josef katz books, motorfan, race tech, race engine technology journals, then there is nothing to discuss. Small hint - these journals are like Nature 

    This doesn’t make any sense at all.

    to you yes (i've previously sent Whoopsy the link to the part of my library, he says its junk - articles from Dieter Rencken, f.e., is junkSmiley its a jokeSmiley) Its the same, or even better, than to say Renault is a not deep pocket car makerSmiley

    If the experts there don't understand that the f1 team and engine department has a separate budget, and that the team budget consists of own team money (in case of merc this is some kind of separate structure and merc invests only 10-15%), sponsors&partners money, prize money and arranged FOM funds, then what we are talking about)) Engine dept money consists of manufacturer own budget and the money gained from the supply contracts. 
    --

     

    sportcars-history.com

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Screen Shot 2022-01-07 at 5.47.09 PM.png

    Now why would I want to click on a link from a complete stranger off the internet, with stuff in Russian that I cannot understand 🤔


    --

     

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Lol 😄


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Whoopsy:

    Screen Shot 2022-01-07 at 5.47.09 PM.png

    Now why would I want to click on a link from a complete stranger off the internet, with stuff in Russian that I cannot understand 🤔

    First of all the post of private message in public is not very ethic. Second - you were under the link;)

    Ok, lets go back to our topic. Where I have written that Renault spent more than merc on engines? 


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    spudgun:

    Lol 😄

    Tabaqui? Smiley


    --

     

    sportcars-history.com

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    If you find that unethical, here’s a tip: don’t talk about info here you only shared in DM’s. 👍🏼


    --

     

    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Talk is talk, screenshot of the private message is different. Moreover I was silent about the url I sent to whoopsy. It was in whoopsy message to tell I sent him junk. Before that I was only talking about the necessity to work with a more professional sources, like the journals mentioned above. So your comment, again, out of sense. 


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Yawn. You killed this thread. Congrats. 


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    spudgun:

    Yawn. You killed this thread. Congrats. 

    What?! Lol


    --

     

    sportcars-history.com

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Sébastien Ogier, 8th time WRC champion: “Lewis Hamilton was robbed, let’s not be afraid to say that”

    “He is in an ultra-competitive environment with the best team at the moment. It must have been very difficult for him to take. He really felt like he was robbed."

    “And he was robbed, let’s not be afraid to say that. Although I have a lot of respect for Max Verstappen, he had a great season but on that last weekend…"

    “Either one of them [Hamilton or Verstappen], they would have been wonderful champions, but looking at that weekend – it’s theft."


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    A Review of EVERY Safety Car Deployment Since 2012

    Abu Dhabi SC at 2 hours and 3 minutes:

     

     

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    [Sky Sports] Duel: Hamilton vs Verstappen

    Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNffxisE9CY

     

    Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6fGlGuDHBc

    Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf57-tJq5xg


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    The Hamilton v Verstappen series is very good. Highlights again the very difficult real-time decision making at the last race that Masi had to do, BTW. I know Whoopsy disagrees but in real-time and w/o the benefit of hindsight I have some sympathy with how it played out


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    I haven't watched that yet, I am on the last episode of Drive to Survive, will start the Sky one after.

    Honestly, as long as something is reported fully, I don't have problem with whatever. Fully means not just the Red Bull side, not just the Mercedes side, but objectively from the outside based on facts, which is by the rules and regulations and precedents. Per the regulations, Masi has over riding authority on the use the safety car, but once he decided to send out or call in the safety car, the rules dictates there is a proper procedures and protocol for the safety event. Which Masi ignored. Or just forgot as he was under pressure to delivered. I do not believe he is biased one way or another, it just so happens that his decision there only had 2 outcomes, one is Hamilton winning the WDC and the other Max winning. And he direction involved in deciding that outcome which he really doesn't want to. I bet you anything, right after the race, he would have asked himself what have I done? He would have realized he is  the asterisk right beside Max's first championship forever. 

    I had always said Max deserved to be WDC in 2021, he had the fastest car and proved his skillset is up there in using that fast car to be a dominant driver, Nothing wrong with that. Vettel, Schumacher, and Hamilton all translate that advantage to multiple WDC titles. 

    Hamilton only got himself a chance to win the 2021 WDC by his skills and the new engine he got at the end of the season, where it doesn't need to be turned down to last many races. And Max keep making mistakes after mistakes under pressure. And not driving using his brain. He was only gifted the 2021 WDC by a blunder by Masi. He lost it during the last race, he just didn't have the race pace to battle Hamilton. But as things happened, everything falls in his favour. The miracle Horner prayed for. 

    It would have been a Cinderella story for him to come back and win the title. David vs Goliath, and contrary to what others will say, Hamilton was David. Mercedes just isn't that fast in 2021. They had always been the underdog from pre-season testing to finish. 

    Neither driver did anything wrong in the last race, they did their job perfectly. Neither team put a step wrong either, both did what they are supposed to do. Even the pitstop no pitstop thing. They all operated by the book. 

    Now that Max got his first, all I wish for is for him to race cleanly this year, to prove to the world his skill set is good enough to win like Hamilton did without all the dirty stuff. After all, he is pecked to be the Hamilton replacement for F1. 

    Max is the billboard boy for F1 going forward, he is the face of F1. Kids are going to look up to him, like I wanna be Max when I grow up. One don't want these kids to drive dirty coming up the ranks. 


    --

     

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    And I have just finished the last episode of Drive to Survive.

    It is the best season yet. The story line of the 2021 helps, but honestly it report the whole season as it is. There is not bias for one team or another. Even for the last race. They includes the in car comments from other drivers on what happened during the last laps of the Abu Dhabi GP. 

    Some may think that's for the benefits of Hamilton, but it isn't. They all came up the racing rank, they KNOW the rules and how they applied. 

    The storyline on Williams on their first points in 2 years is great, so is the Ocon story for Alpine.

    The Haas/Mazepin storyline is another note worthy addition. Mazepin senior pressured Haas into giving Jr a new chassis for the Russian GP by threatening to pul lout the financing. 

    Le clerc on his tragedy at Monaco.

    Ricciardo on his first victory in ages. And his other struggles during the season.

    Also weird that Horner keep insisting that Hamilton doesn't 'care' about Max after Max's crash in Silverstone. The in-car radio recording doesn't lie, literally the first thing Hamilton asked on the radio is 'Is he ok'. 

     


    --

     

     

     

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    And now I have watched the Sky episodes also.

    I got no beef with it. It reported things as they are, which we all racing fans knew.

    Masi made a mental mistake regarding the rules, that cost Hamilton the WDC and gifted it to Max. 

    There is nothing else to add. 

    It is what it is. Ether one would have been a worthy champion for 2021. Max shown he was the dominant driver for 2021 season, his record proved that. Hamilton could also been a worthy champion, battling the title with a second rated car. He literally dragged that thing to the last race equal with Max on points and leading until some unfortunate things happened. 

    What the Drive to Survive series and this Sky series proved is that Masi is the issue. He got influenced by Horner about "we just need one racing lap". 

    Secondary to that theme is that Max could have wrapped up the title long before Abu Dhabi, had he had any more racing experience and some brain cells. Silverstone, Monza, He literally threw away 50 points. Had he been a more competent driver the title would have been decided in his favour a long time ago. Max is the one that made the title fight lasted to the end. Had he not had brain dead moments earlier in the season, Masi wouldn't have been the topic. 

     

     

    Really, the summary of the 2021 season is that the driver title was Max to lose, and he almost did, if not fro Masi to step in to help him at the very last moment. 

    But that's history now. 2022 season is here, and even after the not too satisfying testing of the McLaren, I still think the title will be between Ferrari and McLaren. Can't decide between LeClerc or Sainz, and Norris. More than likely Ferrari will have an implosion between LeClerc and Sainz. Norris could win his first title. And Russell will finished ahead of Hamilton.  Red Bull the team will finished behind Mercedes. Williams will be in front of Alfa. Heck Alfa could finished last, behind Haas and Alpine. 

    1. Ferrari

    2. McLaren (could be 3rd if Ricciardo doesn't perform)

    3 Mercedes

    4 Red Bull

    5. Alpha Tauri

    6. Aston

    7. Williams

    8, Haas

    9. Alpine

    10. Alfa

     

    Full disclosure, despite what you guys might thing of me, with my 'love' for Hamilton and Mercedes, I am a Ferrari F1 fan first. McLaren second. Williams 3rd. Mercedes, would be 4th. 

    Actually I don't really cheer for Mercedes, I couldn't care less but Hamilton do drive for them. Doesn't care much for his off track antics, but for pure performance on track, Hamilton is a class act and a league of his own. No one else before him races as cleanly as he does, he literally is the model driver and class act for everyone coming up the ranks. For team wise, I might actually cheer for Red Bull more than Mercedes, I associated with the Red Bull drink but I don't really with Mercedes products, but as it happens the Red Bull ace is a bit questionable as a person and on track. 

     Russell, he took a 17th-18th ranked car to the top 10 on numerous occasions. That's a bigger jump than say Max taking the 1st ranked car to the front row, or Hamilton taking the 2nd ranked car to 1st or 2nd or 3rd or 4th. Literally for 2021 if Max doesn't qualified 1st or 2nd is a fail for him. If Hamilton does't qualify between 1st to 4th is also a fail. That's how big of a Russell difference. Williams was only supposed to battle Haas. They had no business mixing it up with the other 8 teams. 

    I see Russell doing great things in his career, if only Mercedes can deliver the car for him.


    --

     

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Watched the Netflix special over the weekend and gotta say it's not as good as I was expecting it to be. So much happened during the 2021 season that it felt more like a rush to cram as much information as possible into the 10 episodes. Past seasons presented a deeper look into the dynamics of the sport. Still it's a good recap to watch before heading into the first race this week. 



    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Lando Norris and Daniel Ricciardo react to Netflix's Formula 1: Drive to Survive S4

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Beyond All Limits

    Delve  into the psyche of the Formula 1 driver. Former world champions, experts  and journalists reveal the agony and ecstasy of winning (and losing)  the world championship as they focus on an epic 2021 season, the  breath-taking battle between Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen and it's  jaw-dropping finale.

     



    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    So basically they considered Masi made 'human error', in that he forgot which cars on track are lapped cars.

    Also both Red Bull and Mercedes' radio communication to Masi was neither necessary or helpful, and that they put unnecessary pressure on Masi. Interest however is how they 'quote' the radio communications.

    From the Mercedes' side, it was just the Mikey this isn't right part before the restart, that's it.

    But from the Red Bull side, it was the whole thing with Masi replying understood every time, literally like he was taking orders from Red Bull. 

    Nothing new we haven't heard live but interesting nevertheless when the FIA wrote those down into the official report.

    Everyone else can draw their own conclusion.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Vettel and Norris

    2FB8CEC1-3501-4CF5-84BA-5EADB5A5B0F1.jpeg


    --

     

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Thats awesome!


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 5/15/24 8:44 AM
    art.italy
    852463 1808
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48
    291900 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA
    102302 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut
    21186 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 7/27/24 8:44 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    919689 1365
    Porsche GT4RS 4/21/24 11:50 AM
    mcdelaug
    443779 1454
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry
    431381 1526
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 5/12/24 6:23 PM
    blueflame
    306215 669
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM
    149805 685
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA
    139212 303
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    96954 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame
    84017 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    74117 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 5/18/24 9:44 PM
    Wonderbar
    37320 249
    Ferrari Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6) 1/21/24 4:29 PM
    GT-Boy
    31704 103
    BMW M 2022 BMW M5 CS 4/8/24 1:43 PM
    Ferdie
    29374 140
    AMG [2022] Mercedes-AMG SL 4/23/24 1:24 PM
    RCA
    24819 225
    Porsche 911 S/T 9/21/24 5:26 AM
    Pilot
    23145 59
    Porsche Macan EV 1/25/24 9:10 AM
    RCA
    21439 28
    Motor Sp. Formula 1 2024!! 6/15/24 11:25 AM
    Anderson
    20383 217
    Porsche 993 4S 3/10/24 12:54 PM
    blueflame
    16543 49
    Porsche 992FL 12/27/23 5:49 PM
    Wonderbar
    15407 16
    BMW M New device for DD 11/23/23 11:58 PM
    WhoopsyM
    10609 9
    Porsche win the lottery? what would you buy? 9/14/24 12:36 AM
    Pilot
    7446 61
    Porsche Taycan ST vs EQS580 1/5/24 1:45 AM
    mcdelaug
    6070 14
    Ferrari The SSO Awards: 2023 12/30/23 6:57 PM
    CGX car nut
    5608 6
    BMW M BMW XM 2/22/24 9:56 PM
    Enmanuel
    5489 23
    Porsche New Panamera Turbo order 3/29/24 3:25 PM
    N11KOY
    5354 7
    Porsche
    Asia
    red 997 gt3 S-Go 5104 11/20/23 9:38 AM
    Oj911
    5276 6
    McLaren McLaren 650S Spider: 5 Years as my Daily Driver 10/17/24 6:16 AM
    sour
    4936 12
    52 items found, displaying 1 to 30.