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Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
A Stradale the 430 is not.
DOES IT HAVE TO BE ???
It drives great, handling is the best I have ever driven (including CS), torque is amazing, ...
Why always comparing to the CS ????? eventually, the 430 is way better than the 360CS, it's a big step UP, maybe if a 430CS will be made (not sure, I asked them last week at Maranello) there will be a better track car, but fot now ... every 430 will smoke the CS
Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
Quote:
Patriek (jennyz) said:
A Stradale the 430 is not.
DOES IT HAVE TO BE ???
It drives great, handling is the best I have ever driven (including CS), torque is amazing, ...
Why always comparing to the CS ????? eventually, the 430 is way better than the 360CS, it's a big step UP, maybe if a 430CS will be made (not sure, I asked them last week at Maranello) there will be a better track car, but fot now ... every 430 will smoke the CS
yep, the 430 is a much better car for fetching starbucks than the CS. it must be a real treat to have an "almost effortless" sports car.
ferrari is definetely getting much softer (ie: GT) - unfortuneately. for god's sake, the 430 is weighing in a mere 150 lbs less than the porker 996TT. 90% are forecasted to be automatics and 55% convertibles! ferrari knows their target market for this poseurmobile. this crap has got to stop or we're gonna lose another great sports car company. with any luck though, they'll hurry up and offer a CS for the real driver like porsche does with their GT2 and GT3.
Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
yep, the 430 is a much better car for fetching starbucks than the CS. it must be a real treat to have an "almost effortless" sports car.
it is not so "almost effortless", that has nothing to do with it, it just drives GREAT.
I don't understand what people have against the electronics, that makes the car better ??
WHY ? 
If you really want a challenge, take a 308 for tracking, and leave the CS at home... isn't it more pure ??
Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
Quote:
Patriek (jennyz) said:
yep, the 430 is a much better car for fetching starbucks than the CS. it must be a real treat to have an "almost effortless" sports car.
take a 308 for tracking, and leave the CS at home... isn't it more pure ??
you might enjoy this:
http://trapster.net/mpc/docs/Site/Ferrari.html
Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
Quote:
Patriek (jennyz) said:
you might enjoy this:
http://trapster.net/mpc/docs/Site/Ferrari.html
I enjoyed it, but was FAR from impressed !!
you weren't supposed to be. it was just bubble gum i thought you might enjoy chewing.
Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
Each to his own I guess, but I'd much rather have a car with electronic aids to help me just in case I lose control, rather than end up in a ditch with no car looking stupid, and probably dead!
And I'd like to listen to the radio now and again whilst stuck in traffic in central London for hours on end - so a bit of refinement is fine with me :-)
And I'd like to listen to the radio now and again whilst stuck in traffic in central London for hours on end - so a bit of refinement is fine with me :-)
Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
Quote:
boytronic said:
Each to his own I guess, but I'd much rather have a car with electronic aids to help me just in case I lose control, rather than end up in a ditch with no car looking stupid, and probably dead!
And I'd like to listen to the radio now and again whilst stuck in traffic in central London for hours on end - so a bit of refinement is fine with me :-)
??? the CS has traction control and a radio. so what's your point?
Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
Quote:
ben, lj said:Quote:
boytronic said:
Each to his own I guess, but I'd much rather have a car with electronic aids to help me just in case I lose control, rather than end up in a ditch with no car looking stupid, and probably dead!
And I'd like to listen to the radio now and again whilst stuck in traffic in central London for hours on end - so a bit of refinement is fine with me :-)
??? the CS has traction control and a radio. so what's your point?
My point is that the 430 may be more refined than the 360CS, with more driver aids etc, but ppl like me may prefer that over something more hardcore like the CS - as much as I admire it's excellence!
Apr 20, 2005 5:15:12 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
Quote:
Rossi said:Quote:
ben, lj said:
A Stradale the 430 is not.
But most probably there will be a F430 CS.
I agree, the fact that Ferrari made the F430 more GT'ish with the added weight, creature confort & electronic gizmos, softer ride, run-flat tires, etc. is a very good indication that there will be a F430CS in my book.
I believe its a good move too, they split up even further the two versions to addapt to a larger audience, or be more succesful at satisfying their different groups of customers by having a more GT'ish model for those that want a confortable and fool-proof easy to drive version better fit for everyday type of use, or a cab version, and a hardcore enthusiast version that represents more what Ferrari's philosphy has always stood for and that doesn't have to take many compromises for confort and versatility since there is a GT'ish version already. That way everybody is happy
So hopefully they intend to make their SC version of their mid-engined V8 coupe a permanent model in their line-up.
Apr 20, 2005 5:56:57 PM
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Carlos from Spain
Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
I agree, the fact that Ferrari made the F430 more GT'ish with the added weight, creature confort & electronic gizmos, softer ride, run-flat tires, etc. is a very good indication that there will be a F430CS in my book.
I believe its a good move too, they split up even further the two versions to addapt to a larger audience, or be more succesful at satisfying their different groups of customers by having a more GT'ish model for those that want a confortable and fool-proof easy to drive version better fit for everyday type of use, or a cab version, and a hardcore enthusiast version that represents more what Ferrari's philosphy has always stood for and that doesn't have to take many compromises for confort and versatility since there is a GT'ish version already. That way everybody is happy
So hopefully they intend to make their SC version of their mid-engined V8 coupe a permanent model in their line-up.
Carlos, you have it totally wrong, the 430 is not more GT than the 360, oh no, if you would compare it to the 360 range, it has more similarities towards the 360CS than towards the 'normal' 360
It doesn't has a 'softer ride' it's more like the way round ..
the 'electronic gizmos' are as well on the F1 car ...
run flat tyres of goodyear can be bought for every car ..
and it doesn't have the comfort of a regular GT also !
maybe FIRST of all, you ALL should drive the 430 (hard) before judging !!
You can't judge a car you DON'T KNOW !!
Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
Quote:
Patriek (jennyz) said:
I agree, the fact that Ferrari made the F430 more GT'ish with the added weight, creature confort & electronic gizmos, softer ride, run-flat tires, etc. is a very good indication that there will be a F430CS in my book.
I believe its a good move too, they split up even further the two versions to addapt to a larger audience, or be more succesful at satisfying their different groups of customers by having a more GT'ish model for those that want a confortable and fool-proof easy to drive version better fit for everyday type of use, or a cab version, and a hardcore enthusiast version that represents more what Ferrari's philosphy has always stood for and that doesn't have to take many compromises for confort and versatility since there is a GT'ish version already. That way everybody is happy
So hopefully they intend to make their SC version of their mid-engined V8 coupe a permanent model in their line-up.
maybe FIRST of all, you ALL should drive the 430 (hard) before judging !!
You can't judge a car you DON'T KNOW !!
so you drive yours harder than chalstrad (who posted the review today) did? again though, it's a shame you know have to drive the 430 "hard" to get the excitement that used to come from a lot broader range of driving. sure sounds as if ferrari has gone the way of the 996 TT or 997 with the 430 - too easy and smooth until you get near the limits.
Apr 20, 2005 6:31:44 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Apr 20, 2005 6:43:24 PM
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Carlos from Spain
Apr 20, 2005 6:55:21 PM
- Rossi
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Carlos from Spain
Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
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Carlos from Spain said:
The F430 is heavier is it not? there are more electronics incorporated such as the e-diff isn't there? the run-flats are standard now, there are more new creature confort options as well, and so on...
My understanding is, that the 430 IS NOT heavier than the 360. It is also not as light as the 360 CS, but, and this is a real big but, the CS was NEVER as light as Ferrari promised in its official figures.
So difference between the CS and the 430 is not that big if we are talking about weight.
But it is certainly the truth, that the F430 tends toward an allday sports car, perhaps "GT" is the wrong word, but it has definetely become more of an allrounder. At the same time, all these electronic gizmos make it safer and easier to exploit. And YES, the ride comfort is far better in the 430 than in the 360, it's very subtle and comfortably.
And now I'm asking you all: what's the problem with that? As you can get a GT3 instead of a 997S or a GT2 instead of a turbo, you will have the chance to buy a Challenge Stradale instead of a F430. So everyone can pick the car, that fits best for him.
Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
so you drive yours harder than chalstrad (who posted the review today) did? again though, it's a shame you know have to drive the 430 "hard" to get the excitement that used to come from a lot broader range of driving. sure sounds as if ferrari has gone the way of the 996 TT or 997 with the 430 - too easy and smooth until you get near the limits.
PLEASE, drive it first, before "knowing all about it" ...
Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
Quote:
ben, lj said:
it's a shame you know have to drive the 430 "hard" to get the excitement that used to come from a lot broader range of driving. sure sounds as if ferrari has gone the way of the 996 TT or 997 with the 430 - too easy and smooth until you get near the limits.
Ferraris have always been designed and meant to be driven hard to get the ultimate driving experience. They're not meant to be pampered like a 911.
Apr 20, 2005 7:06:15 PM
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nberry
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Carlos from Spain
Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
The F430 is heavier is it not? there are more electronics incorporated such as the e-diff isn't there? the run-flats are standard now, there are more new creature confort options as well, and so on...
Carlos I believe it is about 130pds heavier but has almost 100hp more. It has e-differential a race tranny and a suspension which adjust to a very race like mode. Because one person has a opinion that it may be GTish does make it so.
Raz, your point about Porsche is a good one. However, Ferrari remains exclusive even with a 5% increase in production and we cannot compare the driving experience of the TT to the 360 let alone the 430. Let us not forget the glorious exhaust and looks. A TT looks like the million other Porsche's. I do believe for the money the TT is a fabulous perf. car. But for the Z6, I would say the best value.
Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
Quote:
Stradale said:
Anyone care to guess at how long before a 430CS ?
With many manufactures speeding up their new model introductions I wonder if a 430CS would be out by next summer.
Fat chance! With demand for the 430 as great as it is, you wont' see a CS version for many years down the road.
As to the competition, what do you think can put a 430 in its place?
Apr 20, 2005 7:36:35 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
The F430 is heavier is it not? there are more electronics incorporated such as the e-diff isn't there? the run-flats are standard now, there are more new creature confort options as well, and so on...
Carlos I believe it is about 130pds heavier but has almost 100hp more. It has e-differential a race tranny and a suspension which adjust to a very race like mode. Because one person has a opinion that it may be GTish does make it so.
Nick, once again,
- raising HP does not "fix" increased weight in tems of sportiveness. Acceleration does not compensate for handling, braking, grip, etc.
- The suspension uses now "electronic dampning" like Porches's PASM or BMW's electronic dampning, with the e-diff allows greater versatilty for adaptation for the different everyday use, and it has now an electronic stability system called CST as standard, all this does not make the car sportier. Sportier cars generally use traditional suspensions and mechanical diff's, they in turn are always on "race mode" sort of say so not as versatile but achieve a higher level of sportiness and feel.
- And lastly the F1 tranny is not a "Race tranny" now, its a great tranny for a sportcar but its just a sequential gearbox, like Alfa Romeos Selespeed or BMW's SMG, that just shifts "smoother" that the F360's now. I hope you don't think it has ANYTHING in common with the F1 tranny used in Formula One cars BTW
So don't get confused with the purpose and effect of the new technology it incorporates, its more versatile (which I think is good, if thats not what you want the thats what the CS version will be fore) but not more hardcore or sportier, hence all the comments to that respect its getting.
I don't want to give the impression this is bad IMO, I think its a step into the right direction and they did a great job with the F430 (as long as they also bring out a Challenge Stradale version though to compensate this shift).
Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
Quote:
svtrader1 said:Quote:
Stradale said:
Anyone care to guess at how long before a 430CS ?
With many manufactures speeding up their new model introductions I wonder if a 430CS would be out by next summer.
Fat chance! With demand for the 430 as great as it is, you wont' see a CS version for many years down the road.
As to the competition, what do you think can put a 430 in its place?
I don't know about that. If only "demand" for the 430 dictated when the 430CS would come out why is the 430 spider coming out much sooner than most people anticipated ? It came out much quicker than the 360 spider because they already had the work done on the convertible roof. In other words the spider is coming out because it can.
"As to the competition, what do you think can put a 430 in its place?"
Pretty soon the 997TT will be out. That'll do it. It's coming out approx. next summer. Just around the time wishful thinking has my 430CS coming out.
Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
Quote:
Stradale said:
I don't know about that. If only "demand" for the 430 dictated when the 430CS would come out why is the 430 spider coming out much sooner than most people anticipated ? It came out much quicker than the 360 spider because they already had the work done on the convertible roof. In other words the spider is coming out because it can.
You've answered your own question. They can put a CS version out anytime time they want, because they can, but as I said, that's not the issue. It's a business decision as to when they will let a CS version go into production. It would do more harm than good for the company to let the CS out that soon.
Quote:
Stradale said:
Pretty soon the 997TT will be out. That'll do it. It's coming out approx. next summer. Just around the time wishful thinking has my 430CS coming out.
Well, that's your opinion and I know there are some here that agree with you as to the performance of the 430 vs. 997. I whole heartedly disagree. We'll find out soon enough...
Re: Prelim 430 Impressions
Quote:
svtrader1 said:Quote:
Stradale said:
I don't know about that. If only "demand" for the 430 dictated when the 430CS would come out why is the 430 spider coming out much sooner than most people anticipated ? It came out much quicker than the 360 spider because they already had the work done on the convertible roof. In other words the spider is coming out because it can.
You've answered your own question. They can put a CS version out anytime time they want, because they can, but as I said, that's not the issue. It's a business decision as to when they will let a CS version go into production. It would do more harm than good for the company to let the CS out that soon.Quote:
Stradale said:
Pretty soon the 997TT will be out. That'll do it. It's coming out approx. next summer. Just around the time wishful thinking has my 430CS coming out.
Well, that's your opinion and I know there are some here that agree with you as to the performance of the 430 vs. 997. I whole heartedly disagree. We'll find out soon enough...
Why would introducing a 430CS now be a bad "business decision" ?
I don't know. I wouldn't think a 430CS would "hurt" the 430 in any way. The 430 will be sold out no matter what. A lot of people wouldn't care for the more aggressive ride/handling etc. of the CS and would prefer the 430. Based on Ferrrari's planned % increase for it's cars maybe a CS sooner than later would be appropriate. The 430 is an awesome car. As a "business decision" I just don't see the 430 being hurt in any way reputation or sales wise with the indroduction of the 430CS. Would there ever be a 430 without a buyer if the 430CS comes to market ? ............It seems as if many performance oriented manufacture's are fast tracking many of their models compared to a few years ago. Of course my reasons for hoping a CS comes out sooner rather than later are purely self serving. I just wouldn't be surprised to see a 430CS within 18 months.
As far as the 997TT vs. 430 thing it could be discussed all day and night. Even when the 997TT is out I'm sure it they will be compared up and down on these boards endelessly. It's a good time for sports car nuts like us. Life is good.
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