Nov 17, 2021 4:00:49 AM
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the-missile
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Nov 17, 2021 1:34:53 PM
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SSO.
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Re: McLaren on a winning streak
Buying McLaren makes no sense for any car manufacturer in my opinion.
Unless they plan to go electric and have something up their sleeves nobody expects (in a positive way).
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)
Re: McLaren on a winning streak
ALDO:McLaren seams to go electric. They have sent me (and other customers) a lot of questions about electric sportscars. What was shocking me they have asked if we would like to have a MCL SUV electric.
I received this query too.
I found it tragic, that a small manufacturer like McLaren, well known for it's superior combustion-twinturbo-V8 (I think without McLaren we would never have seen such performance gains from competitors like Porsche or Ferrari), obvioously wants to come first and play a leading role when it comes to fully electric sportscars. 
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We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.
The secret of life is to admire without desiring.
Re: McLaren on a winning streak
No manufacturer can ignore EVs anymore. When a Tesla Plaid annihilates a 720S, then it is time to rethink the whole combustion engine strategy I'm afraid.
EVs are the future, I hate to say this.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)
Re: McLaren on a winning streak
RC:No manufacturer can ignore EVs anymore. When a Tesla Plaid annihilates a 720S, then it is time to rethink the whole combustion engine strategy I'm afraid.
EVs are the future, I hate to say this.
Honestly who cares that a Plaid accelarates quicker than a 720S? You think anyone cares about acceleration when having fun in their Lotus Elise, 250SWB's, GT3's, ...
Acceleration is 1% of the pleasure driving/love for cars has to offer.
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1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF
Re: McLaren on a winning streak
Porker:Acceleration is 1% of the pleasure driving/love for cars has to offer.
Agree - I always get used to the power of a car, but corners never get old...
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22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi
Re: McLaren on a winning streak
Porker:RC:No manufacturer can ignore EVs anymore. When a Tesla Plaid annihilates a 720S, then it is time to rethink the whole combustion engine strategy I'm afraid.
EVs are the future, I hate to say this.
Honestly who cares that a Plaid accelarates quicker than a 720S? You think anyone cares about acceleration when having fun in their Lotus Elise, 250SWB's, GT3's, ...
Acceleration is 1% of the pleasure driving/love for cars has to offer.
I thought the same thing I'm trying to imagine the type of person who would prefer a Tesla over a 720S because it accelerates faster 
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Nov 24, 2021 11:36:27 AM
- Leawood911
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Re: McLaren on a winning streak
The problem is that most people buy practical cars which are used daily. The plaid does not compete with the exotics in any way shape or form. That would be silly to assume nor would that be of huge financial benefit to Tesla, that is not a lot of competition. What it does compete with are all the other daily sedans used for ordinary driving and commuting. This makes more sense since there is a much bigger market for these. In that market it will do well. My Tesla took my Azera spot not my Turbo. That would be crazy. Now in terms of small to mid size sedans my model3 rules the road and it corners like it is on rails.
Is it still fun to accelerate instantly- yes, it never gets old - but it is not an event to drive like a 720s or Performante.
Nov 24, 2021 12:06:45 PM
- TB993tt
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Re: McLaren on a winning streak
Leawood911:The problem is that most people buy practical cars which are used daily. The plaid does not compete with the exotics in any way shape or form. That would be silly to assume nor would that be of huge financial benefit to Tesla, that is not a lot of competition. What it does compete with are all the other daily sedans used for ordinary driving and commuting. This makes more sense since there is a much bigger market for these. In that market it will do well. My Tesla took my Azera spot not my Turbo. That would be crazy. Now in terms of small to mid size sedans my model3 rules the road and it corners like it is on rails.
Is it still fun to accelerate instantly- yes, it never gets old - but it is not an event to drive like a 720s or Performante.
I bought one of these for one of my colleagues, he is not a car guy at all and was blown away by the acceleration he enthusiastically gave me the keys to "have a drive"...... I literally drove 700 metres turned round and came back, heavy, heavy, heavy, the acceleration was OK but the braking effect (presume battery regen) when coming off the throttle was horrible I had enough of that garbage in 700 M 
Whilst I was writing this I had a cold call from the salesman of our local Kia dealer who excitedly asked me to take one of their brand new EVs for an extended test drive, yes looks like they are going to be the future for most people but I will be driving ICE for a long time yet 
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997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar
993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.
Re: McLaren on a winning streak
Grant:Porker:Acceleration is 1% of the pleasure driving/love for cars has to offer.Agree - I always get used to the power of a car, but corners never get old...
Haha, any monkey can go really fast in a straight line, it's just means mindlessly step on the throttle that's it.
My 918 is still one of the fastest accelerating car there is 7 years alter. Guess how many time I launch it or play with the acceleration game?
Going around corners fast and precisely requires actual skills, that's where the fun is.
Best part? Cops never set up speed traps in corners, they only do it on straights. 
On my commute between Vancouver and Whistler, I setup many pickups and Teslas and others into getting a ticket simply by going into corners hot, catching them and forcing them to step on the gas once they hit the straights to 'stay ahead' while I lift and cruise waiting for the next set of corners to do it all again.
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Nov 24, 2021 4:22:58 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Whoopsy
Re: McLaren on a winning streak
Right Acceleration in a straight line gets old very quick, but make it uneventful, linear and silent too and I can't see how is can be amusing after the first day.
Accelerating out of a corner with a good soundtrack and great changes however is always fun, and many times independently of the actual HP as most of the time you won't be using all of it in such corners public roads, and it's the complete experience that does it (handling, weight, sound, gears, steering, etc)
Two very different things. Cars built for the first scenario leave me completely meh no matter how fast they accelerate.
Nov 24, 2021 4:49:50 PM
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Whoopsy
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Carlos from Spain
Re: McLaren on a winning streak
Carlos from Spain:Right Acceleration in a straight line gets old very quick, but make it uneventful, linear and silent too and I can't see how is can be amusing after the first day.
Accelerating out of a corner with a good soundtrack and great changes however is always fun, and many times independently of the actual HP as most of the time you won't be using all of it in such corners public roads, and it's the complete experience that does it (handling, weight, sound, gears, steering, etc)
Two very different things. Cars built for the first scenario leave me completely meh no matter how fast they accelerate.
It's just difference culture. In America roads are long straight and wide. Their highway tops out at 60ish 75 mph. Drag racing is a big hit there so the emphasis will always be on straight line performance and stop light to stop light 'races'. Teslas are BUILT to that specification.
In Europe, most roads are narrow and twisty, and with the Autobahn, the emphasis is more about car handling, and/or acceleration performance to 'hyperspeed'. 0-60 or even 75 mph is just getting start on the highway onramp. What happens after is important too.
Braking is another important attribute. For American focused cars, the car only need enough brake from the timing lights to the turn around point, every 90 mins or so. But for European or even rest of world scenarios, mountain switchbacks could be a daily thing, and those could go on for 10-15 in a row going down hill, a brake failure means flying off the mountain.
Heck at Pikes Peak, if one is coming down from the peak, there is a brake temp checking station roughly half way down, they check the brake temp of every car there, if your brakes are warmer enough, they make you park on the side to cool them off first before continuing the journey down. Guess what kind of cars get stopped most? American domestic ones.
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Nov 24, 2021 4:57:58 PM
- Rossi
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Carlos from Spain
Re: McLaren on a winning streak
Carlos from Spain:...
Two very different things. Cars built for the first scenario leave me completely meh no matter how fast they accelerate.
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We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.
The secret of life is to admire without desiring.
Nov 24, 2021 6:32:58 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Whoopsy
Re: McLaren on a winning streak
Whoopsy:Heck at Pikes Peak, if one is coming down from the peak, there is a brake temp checking station roughly half way down, they check the brake temp of every car there, if your brakes are warmer enough, they make you park on the side to cool them off first before continuing the journey down. Guess what kind of cars get stopped most? American domestic ones.
And then there is the Plaid which won't even make it to the measuring station
Nov 25, 2021 12:14:14 AM
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nberry
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Carlos from Spain
Re: McLaren on a winning streak
nberry:Here we go again...dumping on American made cars.
I have much to write but thought better of it.
Last I check, Suburbans, Tahoes, Explorers, Taurus, are all American made cars, the 3 series or the Mercedes or the Porsches, Accords, Civics, aren't.
You really should pay a visit to Pikes Peak, it's beautiful up top. And look to the right side of the brake check station on the way down and see what cars are parked there waiting for their cool down. When I spent a week there for the hillclimb, I did 15 trips up and down driving with the tourists to familiar myself with the road.
My old Cayenne turbo S, can do 20 minutes lapping sessions at my track, in 30+ degree heat without brake failures. Which I did many times. That thing is not light. But it has proper brakes and brake cooling.
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Re: McLaren on a winning streak
Sounds great on paper, that McLaren cares about their clients. Making the halo car faster.
What McLaren failed to mentioned is that the are basically just retrofitting the Speedtail's battery to the P1. In the process, dropping the capacity from 4.8kW down to just over 1.27kW. The 55kg weight savings is what made the car faster. Nothing more. Voltage and power output of the packs are exactly the same.
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Jan 30, 2022 8:29:25 AM
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the-missile
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Feb 1, 2022 9:44:31 AM
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RC
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Re: McLaren on a winning streak
the-missile:so is that not considered a downgrade on the specifications? Lawyer may have some ground to open a case here if what you are saying is correct...
It is not a mandatory upgrade, so lawyers probably have no case here.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)
Feb 1, 2022 3:45:02 PM
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Whoopsy
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Re: McLaren on a winning streak
the-missile:so is that not considered a downgrade on the specifications? Lawyer may have some ground to open a case here if what you are saying is correct...
It is lighter and made the car go faster because of it. "Performance Upgrade".
Not a freebie either. Think the price tag was $40k or something if a P1 owners wants the 'new' battery.
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Re: McLaren on a winning streak
Whoopsy:the-missile:so is that not considered a downgrade on the specifications? Lawyer may have some ground to open a case here if what you are saying is correct...
It is lighter and made the car go faster because of it. "Performance Upgrade".
Not a freebie either. Think the price tag was $40k or something if a P1 owners wants the 'new' battery.
Its $90k
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