Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!! - Page2

Apr 18, 2005 12:23:16 PM

RichJ: Veteran; Loc: London, England; Posts: 846, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 16, 2004

Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

So my new 987 is my first sports car and also my first rear wheel drive car as well and one of the things Ive always wanted to do is go around corners looking out the side window!

So far Ive had the back slide out a little on me when its been wet or when Ive just hammered the accelerator coming out of tight corner. The first time this happened, I had 500 miles on the clock and completely crapped it as I'd not really put my foot down that much traction was lost one of those painted pedestrian crossings well placed right on a 90 degree corner!. Thankfully the PSM stepped in sorted it all out before I even knew what was going on!

Since then Ive tried on a couple of occasions to unsettle the rear but being the big (Sensible!) chicken I am Ive left the PSM on! Most of the time, in the dry at least, the back does not budge but sometimes you can feel traction break for a second just before the PSM kicks in.

So my question to you rennteam / Boxster gurus is this...

How easy is it to slide the boxster and of course keep control of it? And do many drivers here drive with PSM off????

Now before anyone starts, I'm not a psycho and dont intend to drive around the streets of London in a constant powerslide!! This will most likely be on a track. Also I know this is not the fastest way of getting from A to B but probably the most fun!

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Apr 18, 2005 12:36:15 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: RichJ

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

May I suggest one of the high performance driving courses, such as Masterclass run by Bernard Aubrey (recommended by Tiff Needell, amongst others).

This is part road and part track, the latter at either Chobham or Millbrook.(The latter is tremendous, with a high speed bowl). Not done the course but I have used the Millbrook facility.

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Apr 18, 2005 2:59:41 PM

ISUK: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 4206, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Dreamcar,

The high speed bowl has got to be the dullest piece of road on the planet. The hill course road is much better and it's fun getting the marshalls waving red flags at you for speeding... well what do they expect when you go there to test drive cars round a circuit then get told the maximum speed is 40mph!! Yes, that was me in 2003 in an Audi S4 hooning around the track at the Company Car in Action driving day

I've got an invite to go back again this year to the same event

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Apr 18, 2005 3:13:27 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: ISUK

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Yes it was a company car in action days I've done in the past. I now work as an employee so I don't get invites anymore! I agree the handling course is brilliant, but at least you can get the hammer down on the bowl. I'm nervous about doing that on the public road as I don't want to lose my licence. Over 100mph is an automatic 3 month ban

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Apr 18, 2005 6:35:36 PM

ISUK: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 4206, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Live dangerously. I've had my 997 up to 120 for a brief spell and had my new E90 BMW 320d up to the same speed. The day I did that in the 997 I rocketed past a more mature gentleman in a 987 in Artic with a blue roof. That colour combo must slow the car down

Funny things is that in the BMW, 120 feels like 70. In the 997 you really feel the speed. Much, MUCH easier to get nicked in the BMW for speading as you really don't realise just how fast you are going because it is so quiet. It just seems that everyone else on the road is pootling along at 40 or so.

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Apr 18, 2005 6:51:27 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: ISUK

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Quote:
ISUK said:
Live dangerously. I've had my 997 up to 120 for a brief spell and had my new E90 BMW 320d up to the same speed.

I've done the same in my Boxster (well a bit more actually) but the fact remains we are playing Russian roulette with our driving licences.

Advantage Boxster - roof down the buzz is there at lower speeds.

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Apr 18, 2005 6:54:18 PM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: ISUK

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

I'm soooo impressed...

...NOT

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Apr 18, 2005 7:23:01 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

My point is this - I would much rather drive quickly - and safely - down a challenging twisty road - yes and blast down the straight bits - than drive at irresponsible speeds down some boring dual carriageway or motorway. You don't have to drive like a maniac to have fun.

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Apr 18, 2005 8:35:55 PM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Quote:
dreamcar said:
... drive at irresponsible speeds down some boring dual carriageway or motorway.

I completely agree!
(Sorry, I think you got a response off just before me.

)

Doing 120+ in a straight line isn't hard, but
a) would result in an instant ban if caught, and
b) runs a greater risk of causing a serious accident and all that jazz.
Dopey people in this country don't look in their rear view mirror frequently enough.

And no, I don't drink and drive neither. Bundle of laughs, me.

But, track days...

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Apr 18, 2005 9:04:21 PM

Jeannot: Expert; Loc: Currently in Hong-Kong , Switzerland; Posts: 1745, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 13, 2005; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Quote:
dreamcar said:

Dopey people in this country don't look in their rear view mirror frequently enough.

that's one thing I love about driving in Germany, and to a lesser extent in France/Italy. You show up at 125mph, and nobody is surprised and nicely moves away :-)

Went 155mph with the Boxster...quite noisy :-)

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Apr 18, 2005 9:39:52 PM

ISUK: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 4206, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

wtsnet,

No doubt your post was well intentioned but I think you should perhaps get down off your soap box. You do not know what the road conditions were at the time, how far ahead I could see, traffic volumes, my knowledge of the road I was on, the type of road I was driving on nor do you know anything about my level of competency behind the wheel or how long I have been driving. I would never, repeat NEVER, drive at a speed where I put myself or other road users knowingly at risk through some stupid manouevres. Your comment about other drivers not using rear view mirrors is very insightful. I always approach another driver with the view that they may not have noticed me as I find this to be often the case regardless of closing speeds. It is not difficult to shed speed quickly and safely if you read the road ahead and anticipate what other drivers are likely to do. It is fairly easy to spot drivers paying little attention as the tell tales signs are clearly visible - lots of people in the car so the occupants are most likely distracting the driver by talking, ditto families in cars, people driving slow cars that are closing on slow moving trucks etc and are determined to pull out in front of you so as not to lose their momentum.... I could go on and on.

I bought this car to enjoy it and if I only drive it very occassionaly at a high speed then so be it. My point to dreamcar was not some sort of boy racer dare. I merely suggested he might like to try a bit of speed considering he has bought an expensive performance car. It seems he has gone a little faster than I have on the Queens highway and I hope he thoroughly enjoyed it.This is a forum for performance car owners after all and one would hope that most of us are sensible individuals. It isn't max power and after working very hard to be in the fortunate position to own a 997 I have no intention of losing my life or my licence in it. I normally let everyone else overtake me on a motorway and am content to sit around 80-85 and let them discover any covert patrol cars ahead of me.

If you stick to 70mph at all times on a motorway then, and only then can you preach to me about safe driving. You evidently don't travel much on the motorway network or you would realise that average speeds nowadays have gone well beyond even 85mph on a free flowing motorway. I was sitting on the M1 doing 85 this morning travelling through Leicestershire and was passed by more cars than I can count travelling in excess of 100 mph on a very busy motorway. I would call this type of driving reckless as the drivers were closely bunched together and would have had very little chance of stopping in the event of an incident. The fact of the matter is modern cars can travel extremely quickly and you can find yourself driving far faster than you intended. Not a defence in the eyes of the law but fact none the less.

If I were the picky type I would point out that the original post was more irresponsible in that attempting to travel sideways if you don't know what you are doing could be potentially far more dangerous than excessive speed. Trying to force the car deliberately into a manouevre that requires skill to recover from is not too clever if one does not possess that skill. I'm not judgemental though as I'm sure the "test" was done in a reasoned fashion as was my momentary burst of speed. The tile of the thread infers that RichJ had his tongue firmly in cheek and was merely trying to enjoy his car. I've seen far more ludicrous examples of driving by individuals in performance cars on supposed "winding country roads" which they have never driven on before and do not know what hazzards lie around a corner ... horse riders, rambler, cyclist etc.

Rant over. Enjoy your car at whatever speed you drive but don't assume that you know everything and judge everyone against your own level of competency.

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Apr 19, 2005 12:18:53 AM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: ISUK

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Rich, I'd suggest you go to an empty parking lot or similar, and simply see how much it will take to make the tail slip.
I bet you it's doable, but takes a bit of effort in a 987.
I have only managed to powerslide my 986 once on damp roads. On dry tarmac it will take excessive speed, braking and sudden steering at the same time to make it go sideways.
Running the risk of sounding like you dad, maybe you should see how much you can get out of this amazing car that's made for anything else than sliding

Hi-speed cornering is the ultimate kick in this car IMO.
Burning rubber can be fun, too...but it's still only a close second place.

Enjoy!

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Apr 19, 2005 6:21:37 AM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: ISUK

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Quote:
ISUK said:
My point to dreamcar was not some sort of boy racer dare.

That was how it was perceived. I felt you were condoning reckless use of high speed when mixing with slower traffic. Your post has clarified your position, and I apologise.

Hmm assumptions?, I think the pot is calling the kettle black

- I do use motorways you know! Faster, but not so much fun. Fortunately there's plenty of twisty A-roads around here.

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Apr 19, 2005 7:00:15 AM

Ente: Senior; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 781, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 24, 2005; Reply to: Jeannot

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Quote:
You show up at 125mph, and nobody is surprised and nicely moves away

Oh how I wish! In my 13 years of Autobahn driving, the summary would be this: You labor for hours to make it past a handful of left lane trotters in a safe way, only to have them pass you happily in the next speed limited stretch.

Too many drivers with a speedometer stuck at 140 kmh IMHO, regardless of road, weather or limits.

But sometimes you catch a good time (Sunday morning at 6am, anyone?) or a nice flow and its actually fun.

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Apr 19, 2005 7:16:01 AM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: ISUK

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Quote:
ISUK said:
wtsnet,

My point to dreamcar was not some sort of boy racer dare. I merely suggested he might like to try a bit of speed considering he has bought an expensive performance car. It seems he has gone a little faster than I have on the Queens highway and I hope he thoroughly enjoyed it.This is a forum for performance car owners after all and one would hope that most of us are sensible individuals. It isn't max power and after working very hard to be in the fortunate position to own a 997 I have no intention of losing my life or my licence in it.

Well, we all agree about that, anyway. I enjoy every moment in my Boxster, as I am sure you do in your 997. The performance, handling, ride comfort, build quality, sound and undiluted pedigree of it are something I have never experienced in any other car I have ever had. For me, close to automotive perfection.

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Apr 19, 2005 8:59:26 AM

RichJ: Veteran; Loc: London, England; Posts: 846, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 16, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

One thing id like to explain... This post was definatly tongue in cheek (The title kind of gives it away!).

This is my first rear wheel drive car, and on top of that its got tons of power! Well enough for me anyway!

I just want to get a feel for what happens when you loose traction at the back, how controllable any slide is, and I'd like to do this under controlled conditions rather than on my way home one night in the rain or something!!!

I was looking at booking onto a trackday yesterday. Theres one coming up soon at Bedford Autodrome on the 2nd May I think... anyone have any experience at this track?? Anybody fancy coming along and showing me how its done!

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Apr 19, 2005 9:16:02 AM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: RichJ

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Quote:
RichJ said:
One thing id like to explain... This post was definatly tongue in cheek (The title kind of gives it away!).

Well it definitely provoked a lively discussion, that's for sure!

AND I've been accused of being an old fart in my silver Boxster.

(Thanks, Isuk). I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't true

If it was the A272 it WAS me.

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Apr 19, 2005 9:28:18 AM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: RichJ

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Quote:
RichJ said:
I was looking at booking onto a trackday yesterday. Theres one coming up soon at Bedford Autodrome on the 2nd May I think... anyone have any experience at this track?? Anybody fancy coming along and showing me how its done!

Bedford Autodrome definitely looks superb, with lots of run-off area. I'm not sure I could make 2nd May, and the car wouldn't be run-in by then anyway, but I would be up for making a fool of myself at the next one... When's that?

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Apr 19, 2005 11:04:11 AM

Ente: Senior; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 781, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 24, 2005; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

I signed us up for 2nd of May. Anyone have a "Total Newbie!" sign I can put on the car?

Originally we were on the lookout for Porsche driver training in Germany but ran into timing and cost issues.

I think the next Easytrack Bedford day is on July 9th.

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Apr 19, 2005 11:47:42 AM

RichJ: Veteran; Loc: London, England; Posts: 846, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 16, 2004; Reply to: Ente

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Quote:
Ente said:
I signed us up for 2nd of May. Anyone have a "Total Newbie!" sign I can put on the car? Originally we were on the lookout for Porsche driver training in Germany but ran into timing and cost issues.

I think the next Easytrack Bedford day is on July 9th.

Cool, I feel much better if I know there is another newb there as well!!!! That'll be 2 black 987s going around very slowly then!

Will stick my name down today... Just need to phone my insurers and see whether they can sort me for a days cover

Any other takers?

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Apr 19, 2005 1:40:40 PM

MAVERICK: Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH (USA) , United States; Posts: 1145, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2004; Reply to: RichJ

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Quote:
RichJ said:
The first time this happened, I had 500 miles on the clock and completely crapped it as I'd not really put my foot down that much traction was lost one of those painted pedestrian crossings well placed right on a 90 degree corner!. Thankfully the PSM stepped in sorted it all out before I even knew what was going on!

Imagine how a CGT driver feels.

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Apr 20, 2005 4:21:01 PM

Ente: Senior; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 781, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 24, 2005; Reply to: MAVERICK

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Regarding the Bedford track day: I'm having some trouble getting the car insured... my insurance won't cover it, period, and alternatives seem far and few between, not to mention so expensive (several hundred GBP) that I'm not really inclined to consider it feasible. Contemplating borrowing a car instead.. not sure yet.

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Apr 20, 2005 5:09:27 PM

RichJ: Veteran; Loc: London, England; Posts: 846, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 16, 2004; Reply to: Ente

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Not tried my insurers yet....

Doubt they will insure me for it....

Had thought about taking it without insurance but that might just be a bit foolish!

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Apr 20, 2005 6:04:49 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: Ente

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Quote:
Ente said:
Regarding the Bedford track day: I'm having some trouble getting the car insured... my insurance won't cover it, period, and alternatives seem far and few between, not to mention so expensive (several hundred GBP) that I'm not really inclined to consider it feasible. Contemplating borrowing a car instead.. not sure yet.

You can have the same problem in France.
Usually, companies will unsure your car on the track as long as you specify that the event is NON competitive.
Have you tried that?
Good luck.

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Apr 20, 2005 6:17:04 PM

Ente: Senior; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 781, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 24, 2005; Reply to: Futch

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Yes, thanks Fanch. The lady on the telephone told me it's a categoric NO from their side, and they don't offer any short term supplemental alternative either. Now you could always argue that a court might have a different view, but I'm just a wimp when it comes to insurances. German heritage.. we love to acquire policies by the meter ;-)

I was told by the Easytrack guys that Bedford is almost idiotproof (they haven't seen me yet!) and many drive without insurance but that's everybody's own choice. I haven't completely made up my mind yet.. might just go really careful (good for the tires too

).

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Apr 25, 2005 11:57:14 PM

SuperSportBilly: Newbie; Loc: UK; Posts: 14, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 22, 2005; Reply to: Ente

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Have you tried this number for insurance - from the BookaTrack.com FAQ :-

http://www.bookatrack.co.uk/-pb?43#insurance

I was looking into trackdays for my 987S when it arrives in July - looking at mid Sep / October after running in - Bedfordautodrome looks ideal.

On a related issue any ideas how much replacement tyres are for 19" as opposed to 18".

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Apr 26, 2005 11:51:33 AM

Ente: Senior; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 781, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 24, 2005; Reply to: SuperSportBilly

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

Thanks Super. I called them and they quoted 331 GBP to insure the Boxster up to 47k, with app. 10% deductible. They mentioned that drivers at Bedford often insure only half the car's value (in my case that would cost 200-250 GBP).

Unfortunately, I learned today that I have to work on May2 so I can't participate at all

A well, at least my husband can go. Might need a hired car or else I'll die of a heart attack when he goes off racing my baby girl.

/edit Re tires: The buyatire.com website (related to bookatrack.com) has some tire prices online.

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Apr 26, 2005 2:57:34 PM

Ente: Senior; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 781, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 24, 2005; Reply to: Ente

Re: Ar$e out for the lads!!!!!

If it's of interest for anyone...

I just got another track day insurance offer, this time from Moris (020 7709 9559): Insuring 30k GBP worth for one track day, with 4k GBP excess, costs 270 GBP.

None of the insurers I spoke with insures 3rd party damage, only damage to your own car.

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Apr 26, 2005 3:28:34 PM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: Ente

Track day insurance

Perhaps we should start a new thread on this!

I just phoned up Liverpool Victoria (who I will be covered with) to check. Apparently they USED to cover the car for track days (I guess under their standard policy) but they are no longer offering this cover to new business - they said they are trying to phase it out.

Damn and double damn! So I'll have to go and slap my friend, who must have taken out his policy when they were still leniant.

So I'll be looking for some 3rd party cover if I take it to a track day too!

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Apr 26, 2005 3:57:46 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Track day insurance

According to Porsche Club GB Performance Marque may cover you for track days tel 0121 248 0911.

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Track day insurance

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