Apr 12, 2005 9:44:08 PM
- 69bossnine
- Rennteam Pro
- Loc: FL, USA , United States
- Posts: 2028, Gallery
- Registered on: Jan 27, 2005
- Reply to: Holminator
Apr 12, 2005 9:44:08 PM
Apr 12, 2005 11:19:37 PM
Apr 13, 2005 1:21:18 AM
Apr 13, 2005 11:10:19 AM
Apr 13, 2005 12:18:35 PM
Apr 13, 2005 1:18:31 PM
Apr 13, 2005 1:38:24 PM
Quote:
Matt C said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
The official rear weight bias for the 997S is 61,7/39,3 and also ...
61.7% + 39.3% = 101%
Now it's even mathematically proven what the difference is between a base 997 and a 997S: 1%
(Sorry Carlos, I just couldn't stop myself)
Apr 13, 2005 1:45:04 PM
Quote:
61.7% + 39.3% = 101%
Now it's even mathematically proven what the difference is between a base 997 and a 997S: 1%
Apr 13, 2005 2:45:44 PM
Quote:I find that statement to be concerning, as we get so caught up in "mind-games" driving two cars that are so similar, that we perceive differences that may not be accurate. The standard Carrera reaches peak torque of 273 lb-ft @ 4250 rpm. The S reaches 295 lb-ft at the same 4250 rpm. That's the math. I would suggest that any perceived "agility" at low rpm is a product of your imagination. I for one, after taking my first drive in a Carrera S following a test drive in a standard, immediately found the exact opposite of what you claim, seat of the pants. I'll quote an old american saying, "there's no replacement for displacement".
The Carrera is in low rpm more agile than the S
Apr 13, 2005 3:52:20 PM
Quote:
69bossnine said:Quote:I find that statement to be concerning, as we get so caught up in "mind-games" driving two cars that are so similar, that we perceive differences that may not be accurate. The standard Carrera reaches peak torque of 273 lb-ft @ 4250 rpm. The S reaches 295 lb-ft at the same 4250 rpm. That's the math. I would suggest that any perceived "agility" at low rpm is a product of your imagination. I for one, after taking my first drive in a Carrera S following a test drive in a standard, immediately found the exact opposite of what you claim, seat of the pants. I'll quote an old american saying, "there's no replacement for displacement".
The Carrera is in low rpm more agile than the S
Quote:
DavidSF said:
Doesn't the regular 997 weigh less than the 997S? That most definitely results in a more agile car, at any rpm.
David
Apr 13, 2005 4:03:30 PM
Quote:Not enough weight to be perceptible. The wheel diameter does affect final drive ratio, but alot of standard owners are upgrading to 19's, so, make what you will of it...
Doesn't the regular 997 weigh less than the 997S? That most definitely results in a more agile car, at any rpm.
Apr 13, 2005 4:09:33 PM
Quote:
69bossnine said:Quote:Not enough weight to be perceptible. The wheel diameter does affect final drive ratio, but alot of standard owners are upgrading to 19's, so, make what you will of it...
Doesn't the regular 997 weigh less than the 997S? That most definitely results in a more agile car, at any rpm.
Quote:
DavidSF said:
I take it you own as 997S? It's funny to me that for the S owners the wee bit weight difference makes no difference but the wee bit difference in hp/torque makes a big difference. Go figure.
David
Apr 13, 2005 5:52:37 PM
Quote:
I take it you own as 997S? It's funny to me that for the S owners the wee bit weight difference makes no difference but the wee bit difference in hp/torque makes a big difference. Go figure.
Apr 13, 2005 5:57:14 PM
Apr 13, 2005 7:36:17 PM
Quote:
69bossnine said:Quote:
I take it you own as 997S? It's funny to me that for the S owners the wee bit weight difference makes no difference but the wee bit difference in hp/torque makes a big difference. Go figure.
30 horsepower is "a wee bit"????? LOL!!!! Ask any racer which he would choose, 30 extra horses, or 56 less pounds.... Or better yet, go to Home Depot, find a 30 h.p. lawn tractor, grab the output pully with 56 pounds of force (oh, hell, give it everything you've got, go for it, put on your game face..), and ask the clerk to fire her up and slide it to full throttle. Then come back here and tell us about that "wee bit".........if you still have fingers left to type with....
Apr 13, 2005 8:00:34 PM
Quote:
DavidSF said:
All things being equal, two exact same Porsches except car A weighs 56 lbs. more and has 30 more HP than car B, my guess is the race car driver will take car B. As I said, weight reduction improves performance across the board. More HP just improves 0 - 60 and top speed. Because of this you can't compare hp vs. weight in a linear manner such as by saying a 10% increase in hp is better than a 2% weight reduction. That 2% in weight reduction improves performance in all areas and you may end up with a better all around performance car whereas that 10% increase in HP improves just a couple of performance measurements.
Quote:
PS CA said:Quote:
DavidSF said:
All things being equal, two exact same Porsches except car A weighs 56 lbs. more and has 30 more HP than car B, my guess is the race car driver will take car B. As I said, weight reduction improves performance across the board. More HP just improves 0 - 60 and top speed. Because of this you can't compare hp vs. weight in a linear manner such as by saying a 10% increase in hp is better than a 2% weight reduction. That 2% in weight reduction improves performance in all areas and you may end up with a better all around performance car whereas that 10% increase in HP improves just a couple of performance measurements.
This is all fine and dandy, but you have not addressed my question....Do similarly equipped S and non-S 997's weigh the same? It appears that majority of non-S buyers have added 19" wheels/tires and also PASM. I consulted a wheel expert at Wheel Enhancement in Culver City, CA and he said the difference in an 18" wheel/tire combo and an 19" wheel/tire combo would range from 4 to 20 pounds per wheel. He said the average would most likely be 4 to 7 pounds per wheel/tire. So if 6 pounds were used, the S should weigh 24 pounds more than the non-S just because of the 19" standard wheels. So now we are down to a 32# difference. I am sure that the larger brakes add a few pounds, but this is a trade-off most of us would make. I don't know how much weight the PASM suspension system adds, but I would guess it adds something since it is certainly more complicated.
So, unless you are comparing a non-S car without PASM or 19" wheels, there may not be any weight difference between it and a S.
Just my thoughts on this 56# weight issue.
Phil
Apr 13, 2005 9:42:07 PM
Quote:
DavidSF said:
I would think similarly equipped 997 and 997S cars weigh about the same since from what I've heard the bigger engine in the 997S actually weighs the same as the regular 997 engine. But then again maybe the 997S has a beefier and heavier gearbox or other parts to handle the increased power in the 997S? I don't know.
Apr 14, 2005 8:18:31 AM
Apr 14, 2005 10:51:12 AM