Crown

Very good points as always

I compared a non-RS with a RS i.e.  the GT3 with the GT4 RS because in terms of power and performance they are close but the GT3 has more sophisticated hardware for the money  that a 4RS customer will end up paying.

I would imagine that given the same hardware the GT4RS would have been faster but we will never be allowed to see this happening.

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"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

Gnil:

So you're going all in !!   I have some time to decide final specs .... for the moment could be either or 

blue wheels might be a bit over the top though so it won't be all in.

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

reginos:

Very good points as always

I compared a non-RS with a RS i.e.  the GT3 with the GT4 RS because in terms of power and performance they are close but the GT3 has more sophisticated hardware for the money  that a 4RS customer will end up paying.

I would imagine that given the same hardware the GT4RS would have been faster but we will never be allowed to see this happening.

Less gizmo is also not bad some time and if you want to tackle the suspension issue, go to Manthey...job done in few hours; the GT3 will stay behind and that's coming from GT3 fan.

However the 992 is too fatty looking for my taste. I can envisage the 992 GT3RS as it will look extreme and cartoonish but the regular 3 is not pretty. I declined it many months ago.

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

I love the new GT4RS, I think its a really great car. 

I had a dance with the Cayman platform (981 GT4) and came away dissapointed. Engine and gearing. After owning GT3's the bar was set too high....

The GT4RS finally addresses those concerns.

From my experience with the GT4 I would say that on any track in NZ the GT4RS will be as quick as the 992 GT3.

However right on the limit experience has taught me that without the rear toe lockout kit on the GT4, the the 911 is the place Id rather be when things start looking pear shaped (more options to correct the situation etc)!

I use my cars to drive to the track. On an annual basis I guess I average around 12-13 full track days (2500-3000km) and 7500-9000km of road driving to get to and from the track including a few back road drive days with mates (I travel to  all 8 tracks in NZ in the GT cars, although I mostly frequent two, my local 6km away and another 220km away).

The GT4RS will be the better value retainer - especially long term - although I never keep them long enough to benefit in this regard....

I think the GT4RS would be a great occasional car if you lived close to a track and wanted to knock out a few evening sessions. Issues for my useage are actually the things that make it a "fun" car. Namely the loudness in the cabin.

I found the GT4 to be very loud inside from road noise. The fact the rear shock mounts are so close to the driver and the engine is in the same "compartment" makes it very loud for a long distance drives to a track on our chip seal roads.

The 992 GT3 is louder inside than the 991.2 GT3.

I didnt realise how much more till I took a friend for a long drive and we really struggled to communicate easily on some of the rougher road surfaces.

I just dont think I could manage all the cross country mileage I do with a Cayman GT4RS having induction pipes next to my head and less sound padding over the engine. It would get tiring.

I have been offered one of the first GT4RS build slots in NZ so the thought of changing the 992 GT3 has crossed mind. I cant afford to own both and dont have the space, For those who can own it as an occasional car in a larger collection it makes more sense.

A visit to my home garage sealed the deal.

The 992 GT3 is a 911 and a beautiful thing in the flesh to walk around (even if some areas are a little bit design heavy/busy). You cant beat the 911 for presence. The muscular rear haunches and now front flared fenders and the whole 21" inch rear wheels filling the wheel well entirely, like a crouching wild cat ready to pounce.

Thats without talking tech about the ride quality and new dampers/suspension etc...

The great thing here is we have choices.

A GT4RS with WS pack excluding Mag wheels is the same price in NZ as a 992 GT3 base car (which is actually a high option in NZ as comes standard with leather, camera, lift and a bunch of other stuff). 

So you take your money and you make your choices,

Those of us who have the wherewithall of larger pockets are in the envious position of owning both. Those are the benefits of good fortune and I believe those people will enjoy both for their differing merits...But for others that only have one GT car in their sights its a more difficult decision I suspect. 

One thing is sure (and I will sound like a 911 snob here) but after 30 years of owning Porsches including non 911s such as 968, Macans and Caymans.....

IF YOU ARE ONLY GOING TO HAVE ONE PORSCHE SPORTS CAR IN YOUR LIFE IT JUST HAS TO BE A 911....

Yeah. I know. Flame me lol. 

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2021 992 GT3, 2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia QV, 2017 Macan S (Petrol)

macca993:

 

IF YOU ARE ONLY GOING TO HAVE ONE PORSCHE SPORTS CAR IN YOUR LIFE IT JUST HAS TO BE A 911....

Yeah. I know. Flame me lol. 

Of course, does the sun rise in the East and set in the West? Some things are set in stone.

reginos:

The new world order regarding the complete electrification of private transport in the next 15-20 years is not set in stone IMO.

There are many variables that could delay the domination of the EV.

The world consensus is not so strong on matters of the climate which was the origin of the EV concept. Governments could be swayed by workers' unions, industry lobbies etc. and the realty of the economic repercussions on their national industries. Many politicians are paying lip service to matters of ecology but in the end their horizon is the economic growth and employment  until the next elections.

The advent of EVs will be a great equalizer for the automobile industry. Things like brand names and heritage will be reversed,  production will be redistributed among producers and jobs will be lost in traditional car producing countries. For example take the German car industry which have built their brands over the last 70 to 100 years and they employ a significant part of the working force. They will have to compete against the Teslas of this world and some Chinese or Indian newcomers and they will lose revenues both corporate and national. Governments and workers might realize that the push by the Green parties towards electric personal transport is really a shot in their own foot. I wouldn't be surprised if soon workers start to demonstrate in favour of keeping ICEs for longer when the realize the damage done.

Also there are numerous fundamental issues that are not so obvious now that EVs account for 1% of all vehicles. On a large scale of electrification parameters like mining for batteries, battery disposal/recycling, multiplication of the electricity production capacity (and the consequent pollution bearing in mind that certain countries are scared of nuclear energy) in order to cater for the billions of EVs, will definitely complicate and delay matters.

The goal of certain countries to ban petrol and diesel cars in this decade or even the COP26 goal of 2040 will prove unattainable.

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"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

 

You missed something. People like me who don’t believe in climate change or any of that political crap putting pressure to make this happen.  For me and many others it is none of that. It is simply that these car are cheaper, faster, safer and fun to drive.  This, imho, is the only reason Tesla or any brand will ever succeed.  If the cars were crap then all the regulation would do nothing other than get other people elected to change them. 
Resistance is futile but not for exactly the reasons you assume. If ICE wants to survive it will need to be better not just sound better. 

Leawood911:

reginos:

The new world order regarding the complete electrification of private transport in the next 15-20 years is not set in stone IMO.

There are many variables that could delay the domination of the EV.

The world consensus is not so strong on matters of the climate which was the origin of the EV concept. Governments could be swayed by workers' unions, industry lobbies etc. and the realty of the economic repercussions on their national industries. Many politicians are paying lip service to matters of ecology but in the end their horizon is the economic growth and employment  until the next elections.

The advent of EVs will be a great equalizer for the automobile industry. Things like brand names and heritage will be reversed,  production will be redistributed among producers and jobs will be lost in traditional car producing countries. For example take the German car industry which have built their brands over the last 70 to 100 years and they employ a significant part of the working force. They will have to compete against the Teslas of this world and some Chinese or Indian newcomers and they will lose revenues both corporate and national. Governments and workers might realize that the push by the Green parties towards electric personal transport is really a shot in their own foot. I wouldn't be surprised if soon workers start to demonstrate in favour of keeping ICEs for longer when the realize the damage done.

Also there are numerous fundamental issues that are not so obvious now that EVs account for 1% of all vehicles. On a large scale of electrification parameters like mining for batteries, battery disposal/recycling, multiplication of the electricity production capacity (and the consequent pollution bearing in mind that certain countries are scared of nuclear energy) in order to cater for the billions of EVs, will definitely complicate and delay matters.

The goal of certain countries to ban petrol and diesel cars in this decade or even the COP26 goal of 2040 will prove unattainable.

--

 

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

 

You missed something. People like me who don’t believe in climate change or any of that political crap putting pressure to make this happen.  For me and many others it is none of that. It is simply that these car are cheaper, faster, safer and fun to drive.  This, imho, is the only reason Tesla or any brand will ever succeed.  If the cars were crap then all the regulation would do nothing other than get other people elected to change them. 
Resistance is futile but not for exactly the reasons you assume. If ICE wants to survive it will need to be better not just sound better. 

I haven't had much experience of EVs. I've just driven a couple, a BMW i3 and a Taycan 4S. Besides the arresting initial acceleration I didn't notice any other amazing driving attraction that I cannot find in a good normal car. I haven't tried a Tesla yet but from what I hear the Porsche EVs are some of the most rewarding to drive.

Besides the environmentalists and the novelty seekers, EVs presently attract people because for now the cost of charging is much lower than the cost of refueling a ICE car. However, I expect that in future and as private EVs multiply in use this will change. Electricity for charging won't stay at present domestic rates but there will be special taxes and charges like on petrol and diesel fuels. This will vary from country to country but I believe in the EU at least this will be the case in order to alleviate the strain on extra electricity production (capital cost of additional electric capacity and the consequent pollution near power stations)  and to reduce congestion on the roads.

Another factor which will increase ownership cost is the battery disposal/recycling which EV owners will eventually have to meet by the imposition of annual and/or charges, when this ensuing burden will be quantified in the coming years.

Maintenance costs? There might not be headache of engine or gearbox failures and repairs but electric motors and ancillaries are bound to fail and most of all the cost of battery replacement is expected to be considerable.

EVs are relatively new and as a result the real costs haven't appeared yet. Moreover, EV owners are pampered by governments to entice more people to electrification. In the longer term the realities will become apparent.

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

from AP's instagram account.  https://www.instagram.com/p/CWq5ZWFI6Mp/

2018 White 911 GT3

Good ol Andy is just showing off............

pts azzuro thetys metallic is nice 👍 

22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

It's not really a great looking car, but it will be incredible to drive. Form certainly follows function, with this one. Hopefully it grows on me over time.

Too much going on with the car. The styling looks manipulated and over the top. But I’ll bet it will be one sweet ride.

The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

JoeRockhead:

It's not really a great looking car, but it will be incredible to drive. Form certainly follows function, with this one. Hopefully it grows on me over time.

Well, I would be interested what Porsche sees as its client base for the GT4 RS ? ...Some 718 GT4 drivers will presumably upgrade..., perhaps some people will get a GT4 RS because they simply got a slot for a GT4RS and not for a GT3..., and, who else...? Personally, I find it hard to justify the extra money for a GT4 RS vs. a GT4, since the main difference between a GT4 RS and a GT4 will show on a track only...   

On the GT4RS the Weissach package doesn't suit the lighter exterior colours, very well. In white, silver, yellow, shark blue and even on the featured Arktikgrau the look is more attractive and more pure if left unadorned.

The exterior carbon look is much better with darker hues, not that there are many in the standard colour list. But it would suit  darker shades of blue or grey and of course black.

It is notable that on the 911 GT3RS and GT2RS, the Weissach Package looks good on any body colour. Something to do with the Cayman shape, I think.

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"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

That launch colour with the blue wheels looks sad and depressing. 👎🏼

997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 

spudgun:

That launch colour with the blue wheels looks sad and depressing. 👎🏼

Well, they have to try to fend off those jealous GT3 drivers with something

2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White

Yes, this colour looks very good on the Cayenne Turbo GT but not on the Cayman, especially in combination with the Weissach Paket option.

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

reginos:

On the GT4RS the Weissach package doesn't suit the lighter exterior colours, very well. In white, silver, yellow, shark blue and even on the featured Arktikgrau the look is more attractive and more pure if left unadorned.

The exterior carbon look is much better with darker hues, not that there are many in the standard colour list. But it would suit  darker shades of blue or grey and of course black.

It is notable that on the 911 GT3RS and GT2RS, the Weissach Package looks good on any body colour. Something to do with the Cayman shape, I think.

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"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

 

I disagree with your conclusion on GT2RS - I selected the dark green which diminished the cartoon Ricer look of the colour contrast with lighter colors. Your comment "looks better with darker hues". applies to GT4RS just as much.

After spending some time in the configurator - IMO the best config for the GT4RS is a stripper with Clubsport and no PCCB and no Weissach for around 142K€…everything else is way to close to the big brother GT3.

This would be my choice for this car, but I guess we won‘t see many of these at trackdays, just Weissach cars…and Porsche is very happy with that….

Blueflame

blueflame:

After spending some time in the configurator - IMO the best config for the GT4RS is a stripper with Clubsport and no PCCB and no Weissach for around 142K€…everything else is way to close to the big brother GT3.

This would be my choice for this car, but I guess we won‘t see many of these at trackdays, just Weissach cars…and Porsche is very happy with that….

Blueflame

Issue is no WP, no sublime airbox behind your head...

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

blueflame:

After spending some time in the configurator - IMO the best config for the GT4RS is a stripper with Clubsport and no PCCB and no Weissach for around 142K€…everything else is way to close to the big brother GT3.

This would be my choice for this car, but I guess we won‘t see many of these at trackdays, just Weissach cars…and Porsche is very happy with that….

Blueflame

well, I configured the sports seats and seat heating and front lift ... I guess I am perhaps too soft / too old for such a car ...but, IMO nothing beats seat heating after a track day on your way home ...

What's the take on using magnesium wheels on track? 

I know you should avoid PCCB when you track the car a lot. Is it the same with magnesium wheels? 

2018 White 911 GT3

Gauss:

What's the take on using magnesium wheels on track? 

I know you should avoid PCCB when you track the car a lot. Is it the same with magnesium wheels? 

Magnesium wheels on the track means you want to be very careful of curbing.  If your track has tall curbs (like Nürburgring), then it is risky.

I think if you buy Mag wheels, then you should also use lightweight brakes of some sort (PCCB, AP Racing Iron system, or Surface Transforms) to maximize the loss of rotating unsprung mass.  Should then make a noticeable difference in both feel and lap time.

Too rich for my blood though…

22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Gauss:

What's the take on using magnesium wheels on track? 

I know you should avoid PCCB when you track the car a lot. Is it the same with magnesium wheels? 

Same thing like with PCCB, if money is no problem…use them on track.

Magnesium wheels are ridiculous expensive to replace.

Blueflame

blueflame:

Gauss:

What's the take on using magnesium wheels on track? 

I know you should avoid PCCB when you track the car a lot. Is it the same with magnesium wheels? 

Same thing like with PCCB, if money is no problem…use them on track.

Magnesium wheels are ridiculous expensive to replace.

Blueflame

$5k per wheel…

22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

It would seems for Canada, over the two year production period, there will be a total of 200 GT4RS to be imported. Extrapolate that to USA allocations, that puts it at 2000 cars for two years. Expand that further with North America roughly getting 1/3 of production, that puts the world wide number at 6600-7000 cars for two years. 

Whoopsy:

...that puts the world wide number at 6600-7000 cars for two years.

Less rare than the 981 GT4 then

2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White

bluelines:

Whoopsy:

...that puts the world wide number at 6600-7000 cars for two years.

Less rare than the 981 GT4 then

And, tempted to upgrade? I mean your car is not white, ie per se too slooooooowwww…

The only thing l find interesting in the  GT4 RS is the engine, else l believe a 718 GT4 pdk is more attractive as an allrounder…on the other hand, do l care ? no, l will not sell my GTS anyway…

bluelines:

Whoopsy:

...that puts the world wide number at 6600-7000 cars for two years.

Less rare than the 981 GT4 then

No one said they are limiting the production ever 

The first year everyone will be fighting for one, but towards the end they should be readily available. Unless of course Porsche sees the decline in demand and cut production number. the the 200 for Canada is pretty much set. We can consume 200 over two years no problem.