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Apr 7, 2005 7:43:12 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
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svtrader1 said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
And the 997TT will likely outperform the F430 and Gallardo, like the previous generation did before.
Bear in mind, the previous generations had higher hp than their Ferrari counterpart. The 997tt will need a lot more than the purported 490hp to beat the F430.
By the time the 997tt rolls out, Lamborghini will probably have their nearly 600hp Gallardo. So, I highly doubt the 997tt worry Ferrari or Lamborghini a whole lot.
Yes but the 996TT was also heavier then the F360M so we are back to the same.
As to a 600HP Gallardo, in straightline acceleration numbers yes but at the track there is only so much HP power a car such as the Gallardo or F430 can use, beyond that its the laws of diminishing returns. A 600HP Gallardo will not be much faster than the 500HP one but alighter and upgraded suspension one will. What matters is the setup and handling at those levels of power, thats why the 996GT2 pulverises the Gallardo and the F430 at the track with less HP, and its an outgoing model!
So I would worry in that aspect if I were Lambo or Ferrari about the 997TT, but handling and track performance is not everything either so then again maybe they should not worry, they each have their place IMO.
Apr 8, 2005 12:41:39 AM
- svtrader1
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Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
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Carlos from Spain said:
Yes but the 996TT was also heavier then the F360M so we are back to the same.
No. You missed the point. The 997tt will be heavier than the 430. But, the difference this time is: the 430 won't be giving up any hp to the 997.
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
As to a 600HP Gallardo, in straightline acceleration numbers yes but at the track there is only so much HP power a car such as the Gallardo or F430 can use, beyond that its the laws of diminishing returns. A 600HP Gallardo will not be much faster than the 500HP one but alighter and upgraded suspension one will. What matters is the setup and handling at those levels of power, thats why the 996GT2 pulverises the Gallardo and the F430 at the track with less HP, and its an outgoing model!
A 600hp Gallardo will be faster in every respect than a 500hp one, if everything else being equal. It's just that simple! But of course, Lambo will do more than just infuse more power to the Gallardo.
I don't know where you got the notion a GT2 would "pulverize" an F430, considering you just got performance numbers that indicate it would be close.
Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
in the old days they had all sorts of trouble sorting the 911, they even tried putting lead in the front to balance the weight distrubution.
however, today's GT3 clearly demonstrates that evolution has finally stomped out the 911's 'wackiness'.
need i remind any of you what clarkson himself said? (an avid ferrari freak / porsche hater, just like someone else... hmm
)
however, today's GT3 clearly demonstrates that evolution has finally stomped out the 911's 'wackiness'.
need i remind any of you what clarkson himself said? (an avid ferrari freak / porsche hater, just like someone else... hmm
)
Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
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Moogle said:
in the old days they had all sorts of trouble sorting the 911, they even tried putting lead in the front to balance the weight distrubution.
however, today's GT3 clearly demonstrates that evolution has finally stomped out the 911's 'wackiness'.
need i remind any of you what clarkson himself said? (an avid ferrari freak / porsche hater, just like someone else... hmm
The 911 has been relatively tame for an experienced driver to handle for a long time now. We're miles from the short wheelbase cars with lead in the front bumperettes. The 993 for example, with its passive rear steering (LSA, I think it's called - also on the 996, 997) makes for a very benign car to corner...
Apr 8, 2005 7:31:55 AM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
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svtrader1 said:
A 600hp Gallardo will be faster in every respect than a 500hp one, if everything else being equal. It's just that simple! But of course, Lambo will do more than just infuse more power to the Gallardo.
First, there won't be a 600HP Gallardo obviously becuase then Lambo would need a 700HP Murc, but I just followed your example of the 600HP Gallard to make a point (Rumors are they may increase to 550HP later on.) Its not simple, Ofcourse its faster but how much faster is what we are talking about, what I'm trying to point out is that at those HP levels there is only so much HP the car can put down and use effectively, therefore increasing HP at those levels does not have the same effect as increasing the same % at lower HP levels, but supension, tires, etc changes can make a bigger difference.
Quote:
svtrader1 said:I don't know where you got the notion a GT2 would "pulverize" an F430, considering you just got performance numbers that indicate it would be close.
No data above indicates its close, I don't see any ring times or Hockenheim times. The GT2 lapped the ring in 7:46 back in 2001 with Von Saurma, and Hockenheim in 1:11,6!... (F360CS on R-compounds does 7:56 and 1:13,0) and this was MkI version not the current MkII GT2 so nuf said
The 997TT yes, but the GT2 cannot be compared to the F430, which is like a GT next to it, the F430CS is the similar concept, which is what I was talking about in the above paragraph about setup vs HP. Imagine the next 997GT2...
Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
You miss the points guys... to compare performances at this level is total crazy, because nor you and me can make these times. First because we don't have the level, and then because we don't have access to the tracks to make these comparisons ...
What they should compare, and it is much more difficult, because is related to subjectives aspects, is the feeling you get behind the steering wheel.
I am a Porsche freak, and always thought that this is the über klass car in the world ... till I test drove the F430.
The car is more easy (yes, compared to my ex GT3's), and faster on the road (who gives you this impression)... so what is the best : a car who can give you more for your money, or car who can make lap times record done by a professional pilot ?
Or maybe, is me who missed the point ?
Also regretfull all members of this forum who "hates" Ferrari, who always have an arguments against this brand ... please, don't criticize Ferrari. The Ferrari owners are more respectfull in this aspect. Comparison is a natural things, I know. For being an engineer, and having worked 10 years for a car maker (3 years in the design), I can confirm that you have more benefits to have a mid-engine.
What they should compare, and it is much more difficult, because is related to subjectives aspects, is the feeling you get behind the steering wheel.
I am a Porsche freak, and always thought that this is the über klass car in the world ... till I test drove the F430.
The car is more easy (yes, compared to my ex GT3's), and faster on the road (who gives you this impression)... so what is the best : a car who can give you more for your money, or car who can make lap times record done by a professional pilot ?
Or maybe, is me who missed the point ?
Also regretfull all members of this forum who "hates" Ferrari, who always have an arguments against this brand ... please, don't criticize Ferrari. The Ferrari owners are more respectfull in this aspect. Comparison is a natural things, I know. For being an engineer, and having worked 10 years for a car maker (3 years in the design), I can confirm that you have more benefits to have a mid-engine.
Apr 8, 2005 7:46:26 AM
- ben, lj
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Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
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Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
svtrader1 said:
A 600hp Gallardo will be faster in every respect than a 500hp one, if everything else being equal. It's just that simple! But of course, Lambo will do more than just infuse more power to the Gallardo.
First, there won't be a 600HP Gallardo obviously becuase then Lambo would need a 700HP Murc, but I just followed your example of the 600HP Gallard to make a point (Rumors are they may increase to 550HP later on.) Its not simple, Ofcourse its faster but how much faster is what we are talking about, what I'm trying to point out is that at those HP levels there is only so much HP the car can put down and use effectively, therefore increasing HP at those levels does not have the same effect as increasing the same % at lower HP levels, but supension, tires, etc changes can make a bigger difference.Quote:
svtrader1 said:I don't know where you got the notion a GT2 would "pulverize" an F430, considering you just got performance numbers that indicate it would be close.
No data above indicates its close, I don't see any ring times or Hockenheim times. The GT2 lapped the ring in 7:46 back in 2001 with Von Saurma, and Hockenheim in 1:11,6!... (F360CS on R-compounds does 7:56 and 1:13,0) and this was MkI version not the current MkII GT2 so nuf said
The 997TT yes, but the GT2 cannot be compared to the F430, which is like a GT next to it, the F430CS is the similar concept, which is what I was talking about in the above paragraph about setup vs HP. Imagine the next 997GT2...
fwiw carlos, there will be a 700 hp murci to go with the 600 hp gallardo:
http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=71188&an=0&page=5#71188
Apr 8, 2005 8:16:13 AM
- svtrader1
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Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
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Carlos from Spain said:
No data above indicates its close,
I suggest you reread the original post by RC. You and I had a debate about the F430 vs. 996tts on another board. You thought the 996tts would outperform the F430 on the track. And now you know you're wrong. Sorry, facts are facts. No matter how you try to spin it. The F430 is the faster car.
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
The 997TT yes, but the GT2 cannot be compared to the F430,
I never compared the GT2 to the F430. You made an emotional remark when you said the Gt2 would "pulverize" the F430. I'm saying it would be close.
That aside, let me go on the record as saying the 997tt will be beaten by the F430. I know you disagree, but, we shall see...
Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
Quote:
jecey said:
You miss the points guys... to compare performances at this level is total crazy, because nor you and me can make these times. First because we don't have the level, and then because we don't have access to the tracks to make these comparisons ...
What they should compare, and it is much more difficult, because is related to subjectives aspects, is the feeling you get behind the steering wheel.
I am a Porsche freak, and always thought that this is the über klass car in the world ... till I test drove the F430.
The car is more easy (yes, compared to my ex GT3's), and faster on the road (who gives you this impression)... so what is the best : a car who can give you more for your money, or car who can make lap times record done by a professional pilot ?
For being an engineer, and having worked 10 years for a car maker (3 years in the design), I can confirm that you have more benefits to have a mid-engine.
Jecey,
I understand your argument, but you have to have a benchmark, a reference point where a potential costumer can compare his car to another one.
Yes of course none of us can achieve those times, but it's the knowledge that counts in this particuler case IMO.
It's a bit like 0 to 100 kmh acceleration time.
Unless you're a sad driver who likes to do that at each red light (once in a while is ok but even so...
) it is totally pointless IMO.It's bad for you car and when you can do it, the car suffers for it.
But it's a benchmark figure.
Same goes for top speed.
I would think most of us don't achieve top speed on a daily basis.
FWIW, a track time is the most significant of all those benchmarks.
Now that's only valid if the costumer is after performance only of course.
Then on top of that, you add, badge, beauty, noise, quality, and then it becomes entirely subjective. It's down to personal preferences, but no one can argue performance figures that's the beauty of engineering!!!
2+2=4 definitely
Is a Ferrari prettier than a Porsche, depends on you!
As for the engine layout configuration. Well, I'm an engineer too, and when you say a mid engine layout is best, it's true but only to a certain extent, again, it depends on what you want to do with the car.
Rear engine layout is particularly effective on rallye courses for example.
On the open road, and within legal limits we'll both agree that it hardly matters
, so you might as well go for the one you get the most pleasure out of, in your case, the F430. Congrats! 
Et vive les Moules Frittes! 
Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
Quote:
That's all I have to say reg. that issue. The fact that the 430 weights nearly as much as the Turbo DESPITE the aluminum chassis and only RWD and being the newer car is a slap in the face of Ferrari.
40 HP more power, sequential gearshift, 80kg less weight... a slap? are you kidding?
it's a 80 kg weight difference!! which is quite a lot, even if the turbo comes with 4WD.
let's not forget that the F's engine is a N/A 4.3l with 490 HP while the P's is a lot smaller (and develops 40 HP less).
and the F430 comes with F1 tranny and 19" wheels -- and since you mention "newer car": there are some safety requirements to meet which havent been around when the 996 turbo was introduced.
Apr 8, 2005 12:37:21 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
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svtrader1 said:
I suggest you reread the original post by RC. You and I had a debate about the F430 vs. 996tts on another board. You thought the 996tts would outperform the F430 on the track. And now you know you're wrong. Sorry, facts are facts. No matter how you try to spin it. The F430 is the faster car.
No, I suggest you read the post about the debate you mention, I never said that the 996TTS would outperform the F430 on the track, I wouldn't make and inespefic generalisation like that when its so close, I purposedly I said it would outperform a F430 "on the nurburgring" which is very different, and which was the specific title of that thread. On a smooth perferct & grippy tarmac track things may change and I try to be very specific about what I say. Notice the SportAuto tests ussually include a Hockenhein lap as well and I did not mention the 9966TTS would be faster there, because I have no data that may imply that argument, Hockenheim is a very different track than Nurburgring for example.
Quote:
That aside, let me go on the record as saying the 997tt will be beaten by the F430. I know you disagree, but, we shall see...
Beaten how? acceleration times? which track specifically? be more specific and I will give you my guess.
Unfortunately we don't know how the 997TT is even going to be, all we have is rumors so its hard to guess, will it have 490HP, 500HP+ or 460HP? will it have a double-clutch that improves aceleration further with respect to normal sequentials, will it have active diferential AWD like the Mitsu Lacer EVO or the Porsche 959? that will surely improve handling even further over the current AWD 996TT... we don't know yet.
However one thing is for sure, Porsche plays with advantage since the F430 is already out and Porsche can change many things depending on the competition, and even though Ferarri did a GREAT job with the F430, Porsche doens't usually fall short. They know their sales are more dependant on performance figures than Ferrari which sells a lot just on image. But then Ferrari will pulll out the F430CS and things will start all over again, luckily for us enthusiasts...
Apr 8, 2005 12:49:48 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
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ben, lj said:
fwiw carlos, there will be a 700 hp murci to go with the 600 hp gallardo:
http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=71188&an=0&page=5#71188
Yes, but unfortunately that reffers to the Murcielago R-GT version for its Le Mans plans, not the regular Murcielago. This version of maybe 25 units was also rumored to have only RWD, carbon brakes and displacement increased to 6.5l. Also it was rumored to be introduced at the end of last year already but it hasn't appeared. And a more street frinedly version, RV version, with the same engine but still AWD was also rumored.
The Gallarado in turn was rumored at the time to get 550HP-600HP but again a SV version, not the standard one. So take it all with a grain of salt. First we need to see the Murc get upgraded which came first and so it also doesn't get stepped over by the Gallardo in perfromance either, then we will see the Gallardo getting upgraded but since its limited by the Murcs performance I don't see anything more than 550HP unless its a special version, but not the standard
Apr 8, 2005 3:07:05 PM
- ben, lj
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Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
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Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
ben, lj said:
fwiw carlos, there will be a 700 hp murci to go with the 600 hp gallardo:
http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=71188&an=0&page=5#71188
Yes, but unfortunately that reffers to the Murcielago R-GT version for its Le Mans plans, not the regular Murcielago. This version of maybe 25 units was also rumored to have only RWD, carbon brakes and displacement increased to 6.5l. Also it was rumored to be introduced at the end of last year already but it hasn't appeared. And a more street frinedly version, RV version, with the same engine but still AWD was also rumored.
The Gallarado in turn was rumored at the time to get 550HP-600HP but again a SV version, not the standard one. So take it all with a grain of salt. First we need to see the Murc get upgraded which came first and so it also doesn't get stepped over by the Gallardo in perfromance either, then we will see the Gallardo getting upgraded but since its limited by the Murcs performance I don't see anything more than 550HP unless its a special version, but not the standard
Tuesday 4th January 2005
700bhp Murcielago Confirmed
Following our news story in issue 73 outlining Lamborghini's plans for a new road-racer to back-up its Le Mans plans, more details of this exciting project have leaked out of Sant 'Agata.
It has been confirmed that the road version will produce a staggering 700bhp from its 6.5-litre V12, and with four-wheel drive being replaced by a rear-drive configuration, it has all the makings of the wildest Lambo ever.
The stripped-out road-racer will be known as the Murciélago GT-R and just 25 will be built. The new engine will then be fitted in a revised Murciélago for model year 2006.
Lamborghini is also planning to launch a more powerful Gallardo as a retort to Ferrari's 483bhp F430. The new car will boast a power output of 600bhp from its revised V10 and will come to the market a few months after this summer's launch of the Gallardo Roadster.
Audi is determined to continue the Lamborghini legend as Italy's wildest supercar manufacturer and will endeavour to make sure its cars are always one step ahead of arch rivals Ferrari in terms of power output and styling. Long may it continue.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/52851/700bhp_murcielago_confirmed.html
Apr 8, 2005 5:20:18 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
Yup, the same rumors came out 6 months ago in the same source, back then they said they were due at end of 2004. Both Gallardo and Murc versions mentioned are not the standard versions however but rather 25 Murc GT-R's, and Murc and Gallardo "SV" versions, not standard.
Apr 8, 2005 5:49:33 PM
- svtrader1
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Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
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Carlos from Spain said:
No, I suggest you read the post about the debate you mention, I never said that the 996TTS would outperform the F430 on the track, I wouldn't make and inespefic generalisation like that when its so close, I purposedly I said it would outperform a F430 "on the nurburgring" which is very different, and which was the specific title of that thread. On a smooth perferct & grippy tarmac track things may change and I try to be very specific about what I say. Notice the SportAuto tests ussually include a Hockenhein lap as well and I did not mention the 9966TTS would be faster there, because I have no data that may imply that argument, Hockenheim is a very different track than Nurburgring for example.
Sounds to me like you're splitting hairs here. First, you're implying nurburgring isn't a track. Then you're saying it is a track, but, a different type of track. Well of course, it's different. You can say that any track is different from any other track. The fact is: given what you know now and still think the 996tts will outperform the f430 at nurburgring, then you're fooling yourself...
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Beaten how? acceleration times? which track specifically? be more specific and I will give you my guess.
Maybe, you're the one who should be more specific since you said: "And the 997TT will likely outperform the F430."
Apr 8, 2005 6:47:00 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
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svtrader1 said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
No, I suggest you read the post about the debate you mention, I never said that the 996TTS would outperform the F430 on the track, I wouldn't make and inespefic generalisation like that when its so close, I purposedly I said it would outperform a F430 "on the nurburgring" which is very different, and which was the specific title of that thread. On a smooth perferct & grippy tarmac track things may change and I try to be very specific about what I say. Notice the SportAuto tests ussually include a Hockenhein lap as well and I did not mention the 9966TTS would be faster there, because I have no data that may imply that argument, Hockenheim is a very different track than Nurburgring for example.
Sounds to me like you're splitting hairs here. First, you're implying nurburgring isn't a track. Then you're saying it is a track, but, a different type of track. Well of course, it's different. You can say that any track is different from any other track. The fact is: given what you know now and still think the 996tts will outperform the f430 at nurburgring, then you're fooling yourself...
Never said nurburgring isn't a track
Mind you that with its 140+ corners and 20km legth, different asfalts, elevations, bumpy surfaces, etc. its a very different track than "normal" tracks, which have closer layout within themselves with their short legth, modern grippy asfalt, smooth mainatined surface, etc. There isn't any track like the nurburgring in the world.
Nurburgring is the closest track to how the real world public streets are but its still a track. Thats why the nurburgring lap time performance sometimes differ from performance at normal tracks and why people rely on it more than any other thing to get a glimpse of the posible real-world performance of each sportcar.
Thats why I believe that the 996TTS may clock a faster lap time than the F430 at the ring but I don't think the same about Hockenheim for example. My reasoning is solely based on the fact that since the F360CS and the MY2000 996TT both made the same lap times in the ring, then I believe that the X73 track suspensions, X50 Powerkit, the PCCB brakes, and modern tires on the 996TTS account for a bigger improvement in the ring than what the more modern and powerful F430 has over the lighter F360CS with R-compound and sportier suspensions. Just my opinion, but I could be wrong. Fact is: nobody knows.
Apr 8, 2005 7:19:34 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
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svtrader1 said:
Still like to hear where you think the 997 will beat the 430?
Well, the 997TT should be more powerfull than the 996TTS, rumored to have active differential AWD system, maybe PDK double clutch, will have upgraded suspensions, etc. And the advantage of coming out a year later than the F430 after Porsche has had a chance to test the competition. So will likely beat the F430 at the ring, and normal Hockenhein type tracks as well IMO.
Apr 8, 2005 7:49:04 PM
- Gary(SF)
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Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
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Carlos from Spain said:
Thats why I believe that the 996TTS may clock a faster lap time than the F430 at the ring but I don't think the same about Hockenheim for example. My reasoning is solely based on the fact that since the F360CS and the MY2000 996TT both made the same lap times in the ring, then I believe that the X73 track suspensions, X50 Powerkit, the PCCB brakes, and modern tires on the 996TTS account for a bigger improvement in the ring than what the more modern and powerful F430 has over the lighter F360CS with R-compound and sportier suspensions. Just my opinion, but I could be wrong. Fact is: nobody knows.
Like you said, it's impossible to know at this point, but it sure is fun to speculate! My guess is, with the super long straights of the Ring, the 430 will be faster than both the CS and the TTS. Shouldn't be too long before we find out.
Gary
Apr 8, 2005 8:04:35 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
Don't know if we will be lucky enough that they will test the 996TTS as well when they test the F430, but at least we will be able to compare it to the Gallardo, they should all be pretty close. For reference, the Gallardo did a 1:11,8 at Hockeneim and 7:50 at the ring.
Apr 9, 2005 12:40:07 AM
- svtrader1
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Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
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Carlos from Spain said:
Well, the 997TT should be more powerfull than the 996TTS, rumored to have active differential AWD system, maybe PDK double clutch, will have upgraded suspensions, etc. And the advantage of coming out a year later than the F430 after Porsche has had a chance to test the competition. So will likely beat the F430 at the ring, and normal Hockenhein type tracks as well IMO.
According to you the 996tts's 450hp is conservative. So, even if the Porsche decides to put 490hp behind the 997, it still isn't that much more. The problem facing Porsche is keeping the weight down to the level of the 996tt. I'm doubtful they can do that.
Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
Quote:
svtrader1 said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Well, the 997TT should be more powerfull than the 996TTS, rumored to have active differential AWD system, maybe PDK double clutch, will have upgraded suspensions, etc. And the advantage of coming out a year later than the F430 after Porsche has had a chance to test the competition. So will likely beat the F430 at the ring, and normal Hockenhein type tracks as well IMO.
According to you the 996tts's 450hp is conservative. So, even if the Porsche decides to put 490hp behind the 997, it still isn't that much more. The problem facing Porsche is keeping the weight down to the level of the 996tt. I'm doubtful they can do that.
fwiw, people have been getting 329 rwhp from the CS and there is no way there is the 25% drivetrain loss that implies. ferrari seems to be economical with the truth of the hp.
Apr 9, 2005 5:59:14 AM
- bostonmini
- Veteran
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- Loc:
- Posts: 924, Gallery
- Registered on: Oct 31, 2003
- Reply to: ben, lj
Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
Quote:
nberry said:
...I have no doubt the 997 TT will perform at least on par with the 430. But with AWD and an engine hanging over its rear axle it will be a boring car to drive just as the 996 TT was.
Oh is it? Depends what you're looking for. You can drive the TT on the track and put down 1000 mls. in one day - can or better do you ENJOY to do this in the F430?
Besides that I haven't heard anybody complaining about the rear-engined Porsche to be "boring" to drive - Nick, you are driving a Cayenne, if you should've mixed it up!
Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
Quote:
ben, lj said:
...did you notice the base 997 is only 2 sec faster on the 'ring than the 996 it replaced? 0 to whatever numbers are quite similar as well.
I am not 100% sure on that one but the 996 Carrera's used in SportAuto's Supertest have been equipped with the particular sport suspensions. A better comparison should be the -20mm suspension and I am pretty curious about the result.
Again, no confirmed info - just my 02 cents!
Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
Quote:
zzboba said:
...let's not forget that the F's engine is a N/A 4.3l with 490 HP while the P's is a lot smaller (and develops 40 HP less)....
Zzboba,
the F430 is definately one of my favourite Ferraris. No doubt about that!
On the other hand if you sum up the weight-intensive features on the 996TT, which would be steel chassis, AWD, the whole turbocharging system that should not be much lighter than the V8, more interior room and probably equipment and the older chassis makes it look quite competitive in my eyes. Additionally the higher torque of the engine requires stronger mounts, transmission and probably more weight inside the chassis.
I don't want to brag about this item at all and that's why this will be my last comment on this issue (unless Nick forces me too...)!
Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
Quote:
Ferdie said:Quote:
ben, lj said:
...did you notice the base 997 is only 2 sec faster on the 'ring than the 996 it replaced? 0 to whatever numbers are quite similar as well.
I am not 100% sure on that one but the 996 Carrera's used in SportAuto's Supertest have been equipped with the particular sport suspensions. A better comparison should be the -20mm suspension and I am pretty curious about the result.
why, it hasn't been available in the US, and wasn't that an S vs. the base 997?
Apr 9, 2005 3:59:53 PM
-
Carlos from Spain
- Rennteam Moderator
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- Loc: Spain. , Spain
- Posts: 21152, Gallery
- Registered on: Feb 9, 2003
- Reply to: Ferdie
Re: F430 performance compared to 996 Turbo S (tested!!!)
Quote:
Ferdie said:Quote:
ben, lj said:
...did you notice the base 997 is only 2 sec faster on the 'ring than the 996 it replaced? 0 to whatever numbers are quite similar as well.
I am not 100% sure on that one but the 996 Carrera's used in SportAuto's Supertest have been equipped with the particular sport suspensions. A better comparison should be the -20mm suspension and I am pretty curious about the result.
Again, no confirmed info - just my 02 cents!
I think Ben was reffering to Walter Rorhl's official ring times, the base 997 is only 2 seconds faster than the 996C2 (8:15 vs 8:17, both standard suspensions), since it has similar suspensions, brakes and engine. Performance wise not very exciting for a new model, then again the 997 has improved in a lot of other areas with respect to he 996 so for some people its OK overall. Personally I consider the succesor of the 996C2 to be the 997S, since 10k more in the price tag is acceptable for a model change if you consider the huge improvement (7:59 with -20mm and 8:02 with PASM-sport). The 997S is what the base 997 should have been IMO, though I'm coming from a 996 so this may skew my view of it a bit since I expect a noticeable performance increase that people coming form a nother car may not notice.
Can't wait to see Saurma's ring time with a -20mm 997S too
Apr 10, 2005 2:24:30 PM
- Bilal
- Expert
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- Loc: Manchester, UK
- Posts: 1533, Gallery
- Registered on: Jun 20, 2003
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
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