Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip - Page51

Aug 2, 2016 8:04:42 AM

pmarkow: Rennteam Pro; Loc: cambridge , United Kingdom; Posts: 2277, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 28, 2014; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

Spyderidol:
olli:
German car mag AMS claims that the mule seen in recent spy pictures as it is being tested on the NBR track is

1. the 991.2 GT3 RS, and

2. it has the reversed gearbox-engine configuration expected for the 2017 works RSR for WEC/LeMans.

If their claim under 1. proves to be incorrect, as I believe it will as the car shown seems to be our well-known GT2 RS test mule, and the statement under 2. turns out to be correct, then this could have 2 important implications:

1. the turbo powered GT2 RS is indeed the homologation model for the 2017 RSR, as no other 911 road car is expected to have this reversed gearbox-engine combo.

2. the RSR will be turbo powered as well.

I believe it. Look closely at this picture:

a while ago i posted a video of the car while testing on the ring. while i hope it is the GT2RS it did sound very good, didn't it........don't know what to believe at this point.

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Aug 2, 2016 8:06:44 AM

olli: Pilot; Loc: Germany; Posts: 418, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 24, 2006; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

Hiding the rear diffusor, made possible by the new configuration??

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Aug 2, 2016 8:54:20 AM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

Spyderidol:
olli:
German car mag AMS claims that the mule seen in recent spy pictures as it is being tested on the NBR track is

1. the 991.2 GT3 RS, and

2. it has the reversed gearbox-engine configuration expected for the 2017 works RSR for WEC/LeMans.

If their claim under 1. proves to be incorrect, as I believe it will as the car shown seems to be our well-known GT2 RS test mule, and the statement under 2. turns out to be correct, then this could have 2 important implications:

1. the turbo powered GT2 RS is indeed the homologation model for the 2017 RSR, as no other 911 road car is expected to have this reversed gearbox-engine combo.

2. the RSR will be turbo powered as well.

I believe it. Look closely at this picture:

What are we looking at which makes you think iy is GT3 ?

The car above is a different one from the one below and the panels outside the exhaust outlets are slightly different but the exhaust location points to turbo configuration and that sure does look like a boost hose and turbo oil catch tank hanging underneath......

I remember when the new 991 GT3 came out and everyone was speculating on the engine, I snuck an early picture of the underside of the engine at the Motorshow (was in Geneva - can't remember) and a there were many shocked Mezger enthusiasts Smiley

We need and underside engine shot on this mule....

--

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

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Aug 2, 2016 9:52:10 AM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

I'm not looking at the panels. Look inside the rear window. That looks to me like engine components. If they are indeed engine components, then they seem to be quite a bit more forward than on a standard model.

If its called a GT3 or GT2 is really irrelevant to me.

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Aug 2, 2016 10:06:59 AM

olli: Pilot; Loc: Germany; Posts: 418, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 24, 2006; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

I tried to look inside the rear window and did not really see much, either your eyesight or your imagination is superior

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Aug 2, 2016 10:20:14 AM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: olli

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

Eye sight has been better. Imagination remains fertile. We will see.

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Aug 2, 2016 10:47:09 AM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

Spyderidol:
I'm not looking at the panels. Look inside the rear window. That looks to me like engine components. If they are indeed engine components, then they seem to be quite a bit more forward than on a standard model.

If its called a GT3 or GT2 is really irrelevant to me.

Certainly looks suspiciously mechanical looking

--

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

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Aug 2, 2016 11:08:41 AM

tso: Senior; Loc: Denmark , United Arab Emirates; Posts: 747, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2004; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

Looks more like electronics to me.

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Aug 2, 2016 11:23:27 AM

Kobalt: Expert; Loc: Europe , Sweden; Posts: 1819, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 18, 2015; Reply to: tso

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

^ FWIW: Not the standard Club Sport Rollbar

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Aug 2, 2016 11:30:15 AM

spudgun: Veteran; Loc: Belgium , Belgium; Posts: 1213, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2006; Reply to: Kobalt

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

Isn't that just an electric box?

--

997.2 & Donkervoort GT

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Aug 2, 2016 12:01:40 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: spudgun

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

spudgun:
Isn't that just an electric box?

Looks like it might be an ECU, and the small grey boxes to its right might be relays.

--

fritz

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Aug 2, 2016 12:56:33 PM

Mithras: Expert; Loc: Toronto, Canada , Canada; Posts: 1981, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 16, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

fritz:
spudgun:
Isn't that just an electric box?

Looks like it might be an ECU, and the small grey boxes to its right might be relays.

That's what it looks like to me too. Engine management on the rear parcel shelf. I do think that it will have the gearbox out front though and the boxes placed there points to needing extra space or no room where it's normally located or they're running the car on a Motec or similar because it's too far from a regular 911 engine.

--

Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

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Aug 2, 2016 1:14:35 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Mithras

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

Mithras:
fritz:
spudgun:
Isn't that just an electric box?

Looks like it might be an ECU, and the small grey boxes to its right might be relays.

That's what it looks like to me too. Engine management on the rear parcel shelf. I do think that it will have the gearbox out front though and the boxes placed there points to needing extra space or no room where it's normally located or they're running the car on a Motec or similar because it's too far from a regular 911 engine.

You mean "gearbox out back", don't you? Smiley

The poor quality of the camouflage below the rear bumper suggests that a lot of that car is improvised.

--

fritz

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Aug 2, 2016 1:22:37 PM

olli: Pilot; Loc: Germany; Posts: 418, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 24, 2006; Reply to: fritz

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

Firtz, I was about to ask the same question...so is your provisional conclusion, Mithras, that this test mule does indeed have a reverse engine-gearbox configuration, with the gearbox "out back"?

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Aug 2, 2016 1:31:15 PM

Mithras: Expert; Loc: Toronto, Canada , Canada; Posts: 1981, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 16, 2005; Reply to: olli

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

olli:
Firtz, I was about to ask the same question...so is your provisional conclusion, Mithras, that this test mule does indeed have a reverse engine-gearbox configuration, with the gearbox "out back"?

Ja ja... Not enough coffee yet this morning... Gearbox out back means high engine-y stuff pushing the rear seat/shelf up and out. Would change the firewall etc...

--

Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

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Aug 2, 2016 2:07:37 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Mithras

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

What would be the advantage of a gearbox in the back? What does that signify?

--

To learn how to live is to learn how to hang on. To learn how to die is to learn how to let go.

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Aug 2, 2016 2:14:56 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

nberry:
What would be the advantage of a gearbox in the back? What does that signify?

The car would be mid-engined instead of rear-engined, better weight distribution between front and rear axles, lower polar moment of inertia, more responsive to steering inputs, less subject to inherent oversteer.
Take your pick. Smiley

--

fritz

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Aug 2, 2016 2:30:47 PM

Mithras: Expert; Loc: Toronto, Canada , Canada; Posts: 1981, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 16, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

You could also potentially lower the roofline as there is less bulk at the rear. It also allows larger venturis in the back as you can put them on either side of the gearbox instead of under the wide engine.

--

Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

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Aug 2, 2016 4:11:49 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Mithras

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

Why would Porsche change a winning formula the 911?

--

To learn how to live is to learn how to hang on. To learn how to die is to learn how to let go.

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Aug 2, 2016 4:13:30 PM

acky: Co-Pilot; Loc: Westerwald , Germany; Posts: 203, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 25, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

Because the 911 concept isn't anymore successful in racing.

--

daily: BMW 430d
for fun: Porsche Boxster GTS

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Aug 2, 2016 4:20:38 PM

Mithras: Expert; Loc: Toronto, Canada , Canada; Posts: 1981, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 16, 2005; Reply to: nberry

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

nberry:
Why would Porsche change a winning formula the 911?

Same reason Cooper went from front engined to mid-rear in 1958.

A mid-engined 911 with the vastly superior aero/downforce and weight distribution that it would allow will make Porsche competitive again in sportscar racing. BoP is the only thing keeping them in the race now.

--

Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

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Aug 2, 2016 4:37:47 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

nberry:
Why would Porsche change a winning formula the 911?

They need an "homologation special" as a basis for a new, more competitive, generation of 911-based GT racing cars.
This version needs to be mid-engined. It does not mean that all 911 versions would follow suit, as that would also involve doing away with the rear +2 seats.

--

fritz

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Aug 2, 2016 11:10:00 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: fritz

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

Porsche was out of racing for many years and it did not hurt their bottom line. Personally, I don't care how many races they win or lose. I doubt most buyers care.

Think about it. If Porsche loses or wins a race will that influence buyers as to whether they buy the car?

--

To learn how to live is to learn how to hang on. To learn how to die is to learn how to let go.

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Aug 2, 2016 11:13:31 PM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: nberry

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

I dont really care... That said none of their sport car is interesting enough at the present time, only SUV Smiley

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Aug 2, 2016 11:34:07 PM

mcdelaug: Expert; Loc: Fort Worth, Texas , United States; Posts: 1919, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2004; Reply to: SciFrog

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

physics trumps marketing in racing, but it is the other way around for everything else

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Aug 3, 2016 12:14:06 AM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

nberry:
Porsche was out of racing for many years and it did not hurt their bottom line. Personally, I don't care how many races they win or lose. I doubt most buyers care.

Think about it. If Porsche loses or wins a race will that influence buyers as to whether they buy the car?

I care, because when the race motor is substantially similar to the road car motor (and other parts), racing improves their performance and longevity on the road and track.

Makes a huge difference to the product.

And while Porsche may have been out of Prototype racing occasionally, they have never been out of Sports Car racing...

--

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

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Aug 3, 2016 9:29:26 AM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: nberry

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

nberry:
Porsche was out of racing for many years and it did not hurt their bottom line. Personally, I don't care how many races they win or lose. I doubt most buyers care.

Think about it. If Porsche loses or wins a race will that influence buyers as to whether they buy the car?

Actually, not strictly true: Porsche was out of the top class, and did not have a factory financed project for many years, but they were always in racing. Their racing program was customer funded and factory assisted/backed. Under WW they made a business out of racing. Unfortunately that approach limits you to the GT classes (under current regulations). It does not allow for the R&D that is associated with top class racing (LMP1)

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Aug 3, 2016 10:09:44 AM

olli: Pilot; Loc: Germany; Posts: 418, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 24, 2006; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

Spyderdol, that is certainly all true.

It is also fair to say, however, that under the new regime their motorsport investment has been jacked up considerably. The investment into their LMP1 project is deeply in triple-digit million Euro/$ territory (almost in a F1 type league) and the new RSR will not be cheap to develop either.

The VW group "diesel-issue" and the financial fall-out from it have put damper on all such programs (including Audis), but it is still a far cry from the WW era.

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Aug 3, 2016 10:41:47 AM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: olli

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

olli:
Spyderdol, that is certainly all true.

It is also fair to say, however, that under the new regime their motorsport investment has been jacked up considerably. The investment into their LMP1 project is deeply in triple-digit million Euro/$ territory (almost in a F1 type league) and the new RSR will not be cheap to develop either.

The VW group "diesel-issue" and the financial fall-out from it have put damper on all such programs (including Audis), but it is still a far cry from the WW era.

We don't disagree, however the point I was trying to make, is that Porsche have never stopped racing: there has been a Porsche (of one kind or another) at Le Mans for decades.

Even under WW - who was not a racing fan- they continued to race. They just needed to make money out of it.

The investment has been jacked up (and rightly so) because it is now funded under R&D (at lest the LMP1 program)

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Aug 3, 2016 10:55:22 AM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip

I just checked the data: there has been a Porsche at Le Mans since 1951. That's when they first entered a 1.0-litre Porsche 356 SL Coupe

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