Crown

kingjr9000:

Does anyone know a weight point of this guy, yet? Is it going to be around 1400kg+-?

GT2 RS? I heard under 1500 kg DIN but heavier than current 991 GT3 RS.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

kingjr9000:

Does anyone know a weight point of this guy, yet? Is it going to be around 1400kg+-?

GT2 RS? I heard under 1500 kg DIN but heavier than current 991 GT3 RS.

Of course it has to be heavier than GT3 RS with the the addition of turbocharging.  Just look at the 718 which is heavier than 981.1 while gaining only one turbo and losing two cylinders...

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Grant:

RC:

kingjr9000:

Does anyone know a weight point of this guy, yet? Is it going to be around 1400kg+-?

GT2 RS? I heard under 1500 kg DIN but heavier than current 991 GT3 RS.

Of course it has to be heavier than GT3 RS with the the addition of turbocharging.  Just look at the 718 which is heavier than 981.1 while gaining only one turbo and losing two cylinders...

GT2 RS will make use of many lightweight parts (even compared to GT3 RS)...

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

Grant:

RC:

GT2 RS will make use of many lightweight parts (even compared to GT3 RS)...

Interesting!  Hope some of them make it to 991.2 GT3 (but probably saved for RS versions)...

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Nice to know.  But why is it 200lbs heavier than the last gt2rs?

kingjr9000:

Nice to know.  But why is it 200lbs heavier than the last gt2rs?

991 is quite a bit larger car than 997 and comes with heavy stuff like Rear Wheel Steering, PDK, 21" wheels, etc...

--

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

kingjr9000:

Nice to know.  But why is it 200lbs heavier than the last gt2rs?

The car got Americanized. 

kingjr9000:

Nice to know.  But why is it 200lbs heavier than the last gt2rs?

Last GT2 RS was 1370 kg DIN, new GT3 RS is 1420 kg DIN.

Assuming that the light weight parts rumor is true, I assume the new GT2 RS will be around 1430 to 1450 kg DIN.

Not exactly 200 lbs.

Cars need to meet modern crash specs...

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

kingjr9000:

Nice to know.  But why is it 200lbs heavier than the last gt2rs?

Last GT2 RS was 1370 kg DIN, new GT3 RS is 1420 kg DIN.

Assuming that the light weight parts rumor is true, I assume the new GT2 RS will be around 1430 to 1450 kg DIN.

Not exactly 200 lbs.

Cars need to meet modern crash specs...

The lightweight parts spec for the GT3RS is pretty impressive and specialised with its mag roof etc, it is hard to see what else they can save weight on, maybe the wheels ?

Add in turbos and a couple of intercoolers with associated plumbing and I reckon on 1450kg DIN..... specced cars will likely be hitting 1500kg (in the same vein as GT2RS specced cars which were up from their DIN poverty spec 1370kg to optioned up road spec at around 1420kg for most cars)

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

TB993tt:

RC:

kingjr9000:

Nice to know.  But why is it 200lbs heavier than the last gt2rs?

Last GT2 RS was 1370 kg DIN, new GT3 RS is 1420 kg DIN.

Assuming that the light weight parts rumor is true, I assume the new GT2 RS will be around 1430 to 1450 kg DIN.

Not exactly 200 lbs.

Cars need to meet modern crash specs...

The lightweight parts spec for the GT3RS is pretty impressive and specialised with its mag roof etc, it is hard to see what else they can save weight on, maybe the wheels ?

Add in turbos and a couple of intercoolers with associated plumbing and I reckon on 1450kg DIN..... specced cars will likely be hitting 1500kg (in the same vein as GT2RS specced cars which were up from their DIN poverty spec 1370kg to optioned up road spec at around 1420kg for most cars)

If Mustang can have it in a car selling for 5 figures, i don't see why Porsche shouldn't do it in a car costing multiple that.

CF wheels do wonders for handling and performance.....

absent:

 

CF wheels do wonders for handling and performance.....

Yes but when they break, it is catastrophic and the Mustang GT350R is not going to be going 210mph on the autobahn when its wheel fails.

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16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

I think carbon front quarters and doors are the next easy weight loss.

The REALLY interesting thought is that they got a waiver to put the gearbox ahead of the engine for the new RSR (making it really a mid engined car). Would that in a special GT2RS as a way to fully homologate the change make sense? THEN you have an all time collectible 911...

Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

Mithras:

I think carbon front quarters and doors are the next easy weight loss.

The REALLY interesting thought is that they got a waiver to put the gearbox ahead of the engine for the new RSR (making it really a mid engined car). Would that in a special GT2RS as a way to fully homologate the change make sense? THEN you have an all time collectible 911...

This all time collectible 911 exists already...

911 GT1-96 and 911 GT1-97 Strassenversion.

But a new GT2 in this style would be great! 

Blueflame

Whoopsy:

kingjr9000:

Nice to know.  But why is it 200lbs heavier than the last gt2rs?

 

The car got Americanized. 

Grant:

absent:

 

CF wheels do wonders for handling and performance.....

Yes but when they break, it is catastrophic and the Mustang GT350R is not going to be going 210mph on the autobahn when its wheel fails.

--

 

 

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

 

 

Mustang wheels are tested for prolonged use over 200mph (no longer possible on ANY autobahn anymore, at least no more then a short, less then a minute burst with the constantly increasing traffic).

Koenisegg is using them exclusively on cars faster then Veyron so your argument holds no water.

absent:

Mustang wheels are tested for prolonged use over 200mph (no longer possible on ANY autobahn anymore, at least no more then a short, less then a minute burst with the constantly increasing traffic).

Koenisegg is using them exclusively on cars faster then Veyron so your argument holds no water.

This is not true, as I'm sure most of our German contributors know, there are plenty of Autobahn areas where one can max out for a few miles when the time and conditions are safe.

See the graph below, the reason 200mph took so long below is because the GT2 was standard 540PS, if I did this today it would have got up there a lot faster......

There are only a few brands of cars I would be happy doing over 200mph in and it doesn't include any American ones, BTW the GT2 was wearing carbon Dymag wheels during the driving in graph above and they stood up to plenty of abuse but ultimately they could not be kept in cosmetically decent condition and there was always the nagging doubt in the back of one's mind. 

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997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

I had a GT500 as many of you know and over 300 kph, I started to get scared in this car. This car is officially doing 322 kph and my car was easily reaching 340 kph and more. A guy I know with similar power did 347 kph on the Autobahn, GPS measures and it was the GT500 Cab, which isn't even certified for speeds over 260 kph.  If the soft top suddenly tears off at that speed, the guy is dead. 

My R8? Well...did 315 kph on the Autobahn yesterday, just for ten seconds or so because of traffic (I never pass multiple cars at such high speeds) and it felt like 160 kph in the GT500. I'm not kidding.

There are cars and...cars and yes, sometimes you get what you pay for.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

absent:

Grant:

absent:

 

CF wheels do wonders for handling and performance.....

Yes but when they break, it is catastrophic and the Mustang GT350R is not going to be going 210mph on the autobahn when its wheel fails.

--

 

 

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

 

 

Mustang wheels are tested for prolonged use over 200mph (no longer possible on ANY autobahn anymore, at least no more then a short, less then a minute burst with the constantly increasing traffic).

Koenisegg is using them exclusively on cars faster then Veyron so your argument holds no water.

CF wheels are not effectively in endangered by high speed as such, so prolonged high speed testing will hardly be a significant part of their durability testing programmes. They are prone to damage from abuse, like being driven over curbs or through potholes.
Grant will only have mentioned high speed as a risk factor due to the potential for wheels which have previously been mechanically damaged by abuse then suddenly failing spectacularly when they are subsequently subjected to high stresses at high speeds. 

fritz

TB993tt:

absent:

Mustang wheels are tested for prolonged use over 200mph (no longer possible on ANY autobahn anymore, at least no more then a short, less then a minute burst with the constantly increasing traffic).

Koenisegg is using them exclusively on cars faster then Veyron so your argument holds no water.

This is not true, as I'm sure most of our German contributors know, there are plenty of Autobahn areas where one can max out for a few miles when the time and conditions are safe.

See the graph below, the reason 200mph took so long below is because the GT2 was standard 540PS, if I did this today it would have got up there a lot faster......

There are only a few brands of cars I would be happy doing over 200mph in and it doesn't include any American ones, BTW the GT2 was wearing carbon Dymag wheels during the driving in graph above and they stood up to plenty of abuse but ultimately they could not be kept in cosmetically decent condition and there was always the nagging doubt in the back of one's mind. 

--

 

 

 

 

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

Just what I said, a minute or less or a mile or a couple......

One more point re. CF wheels:

Does anyone here thinks even for a second that Ford, with all the crazy and out of control liability laws here in US, would consider putting these wheels on a car well known for being regularly abused by it's owners both on track and on the road?

Without testing it thoroughly first, in all kinds of scenarios?

absent:

One more point re. CF wheels:

Does anyone here thinks even for a second that Ford, with all the crazy and out of control liability laws here in US, would consider putting these wheels on a car well known for being regularly abused by it's owners both on track and on the road?

Without testing it thoroughly first, in all kinds of scenarios?

The wheels need to meet certain safety and durability standards. If so, I see no issues for Ford. There are lots of materials which are prone to damage if "abused" and "abuse" is not part of the warranty (or liability).

Many of you seem to forget that there isn't a single manufacturer on this planet who provides a warranty (or liability) for track racing their products. I am not talking about some driver ed events but serious tracking. No warranty...no liability, many people need to understand that the fact that a car can be used for the track or the fact that a car is used for professional track racing in a racing series, doesn't really mean that the manufacturer allows track racing.

If you read the manuals of basically every sports car on the market, there is always an exclusion regarding track racing.

Another point: Just let's say that you have a sports car with a carbon fibre front lip and you damage this lip. The moment you are aware of the damage, you need to have it repaired properly. If something happens, let's say the front becomes too light at a very high speed and you loose control, the manufacturer is not responsible. As long as the part meets the various standards for safety/durability. Owners have responsibilities as well...unfortunately many owners ignore them.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

absent:

Grant:

absent:

 

CF wheels do wonders for handling and performance.....

Yes but when they break, it is catastrophic and the Mustang GT350R is not going to be going 210mph on the autobahn when its wheel fails.

--

 

 

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

 

 

Mustang wheels are tested for prolonged use over 200mph (no longer possible on ANY autobahn anymore, at least no more then a short, less then a minute burst with the constantly increasing traffic).

Koenisegg is using them exclusively on cars faster then Veyron so your argument holds no water.

Why not use magnesium wheels like the 918 Weissach?  These would be just as light as carbon fibre and are proven within the company.  Pricey yes, but the GT2RS will no doubt be pricier than a Turbo S or GT3RS so they can afford to outfit the car properly.  

Westview

 

Why not use magnesium wheels like the 918 Weissach?  These would be just as light as carbon fibre and are proven within the company.  Pricey yes, but the GT2RS will no doubt be pricier than a Turbo S or GT3RS so they can afford to outfit the car properly.

Would using Mg go against the "GT" ethos ? GT cars are supposed to be the track oriented cars which means thumping curbs and extra strength needed. GT wheels have always been XXL strong.

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

TB993tt:

Westview

 

Why not use magnesium wheels like the 918 Weissach?  These would be just as light as carbon fibre and are proven within the company.  Pricey yes, but the GT2RS will no doubt be pricier than a Turbo S or GT3RS so they can afford to outfit the car properly.

Would using Mg go against the "GT" ethos ? GT cars are supposed to be the track oriented cars which means thumping curbs and extra strength needed. GT wheels have always been XXL strong.

Mustang GT350R, the one with CF wheels, is built/designed with frequent track use in mind so obviously Ford was not concerned with going over ridged or painted curbs.

absent:

 

Mustang GT350R, the one with CF wheels, is built/designed with frequent track use in mind so obviously Ford was not concerned with going over ridged or painted curbs.

This is Porsche and there are no serious carbon wheel manufacturers in Germany in fact I understood that the TUV process and wording for wheels was heavily rigged against carbon wheels and we can maybe guess why 

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

I'm sure Ford's CF wheels are fine. It's a road car after all. People hit giant, deep, and sharp edged potholes on normal roads all the time, and going like 60-70mph. Highly doubt they are unsafe.

German car mag AMS claims that the mule seen in recent spy pictures as it is being tested on the NBR track is

1. the 991.2 GT3 RS, and

2. it has the reversed gearbox-engine configuration expected for the 2017 works RSR for WEC/LeMans.

If their claim under 1. proves to be incorrect, as I believe it will as the car shown seems to be our well-known GT2 RS test mule, and the statement under 2. turns out to be correct, then this could have 2 important implications:

1. the turbo powered GT2 RS is indeed the homologation model for the 2017 RSR, as no other 911 road car is expected to have this reversed gearbox-engine combo.

2. the RSR will be turbo powered as well.

olli:

German car mag AMS claims that the mule seen in recent spy pictures as it is being tested on the NBR track is

1. the 991.2 GT3 RS, and

2. it has the reversed gearbox-engine configuration expected for the 2017 works RSR for WEC/LeMans.

If their claim under 1. proves to be incorrect, as I believe it will as the car shown seems to be our well-known GT2 RS test mule, and the statement under 2. turns out to be correct, then this could have 2 important implications:

1. the turbo powered GT2 RS is indeed the homologation model for the 2017 RSR, as no other 911 road car is expected to have this reversed gearbox-engine combo.

2. the RSR will be turbo powered as well.

 

 

I believe it. Look closely at this picture: