Crown

Nick, many here have already chimed in about the merits of an RS.

We in the North American market is very different than the European market. They have many tracks close by within driving distances, so for track guys, it make sense for them to by a hyper track focused RS and drive to the track and back, enduring the uncomfortable ride through villages and such. In our market these are are mostly sold to posers, or dealership's best customers because of the appreciating potential. Of course we do have some that bought the car for track duties but that's a minority. It's mostly sold to 'normal' people as the RSs are the top dog on the GT tree of 911s and people like to be seen driving the top dog around.

Then there is the roads, or lack of, here in North American. An RS will be super fun in the Alpine passes, one can drive 15-20 of them on a weekend, so one doesn't need to go to a track to enjoy the car, we don't have such roads here.

I can have pretty much any Porsche I want, will I buy the new RS? No. It doesn't make sense for me. It's 800+km round trip to my track and I really don't want to be stuck in that horrible seat for a 8hr round trip. And when I arrived at the track, I have a pure track car there so there is no point in taking the GT3RS on track for me either. I would much rather head there in my Panamera turbo S to travel in comfort first. 

A modern 911 turbo S aren't that much slower on a track, and the last bit of difference only shows up in the hands of hyper track junkie or pros, ordinary souls will have just as much fun in a turbo S, a GT3 or a GT3RS. Even the lowered limit of the turbo S will not be reached. 

^ Most people will never get 10/10ths from a base 911 on a track, let alone on the street. Buy what you like, regardless of whether it has a ridiculous wing on it or not, IMHO.

Nick, you understand the US market. The closet appropriate track for me is 2 1/2 hours. The events are few for pure sport cars. When you factor in special insurance and Porsche requirements to safeguard the warranty it doesn’t make sense to track the car. 
 

But it doesn’t mean those of us who enjoy exercising a pure sport car shouldn’t get the best available. I’m a situational driver and my RS gets full throttle in appropriate venues. Granted there is a downside to this approach given all the police monitoring. I recently wrote it was ticketed for being 30 mph over a 45 mph speed zone. The fine was $1500 buy after my appeal it was reduced to $500.
 

Finally, If I want a pure track car, it would be much cheaper to modify an older car and track it. For those that track their cars, it’s the fun of being on a track and not necessarily their time in going in circles.

The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

JoeRockhead:

^ Most people will never get 10/10ths from a base 911 on a track, let alone on the street. Buy what you like, regardless of whether it has a ridiculous wing on it or not, IMHO.

IMO, the differences between a GT3/RS and other 911's are easily appreciated below 10/10ths on the track (if you specifically desire its particular traits).

22 GT3 Manual pending, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Gnil:

You would probably be very happy with the GT3. The 992 GT3 had a general look/feeling in real life close the 991. GT3 RS

I don't want to upset you but much closer than 991.2 GT3RS than you think and actually beyond its performance.

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

Grant:

JoeRockhead:

^ Most people will never get 10/10ths from a base 911 on a track, let alone on the street. Buy what you like, regardless of whether it has a ridiculous wing on it or not, IMHO.

IMO, the differences between a GT3/RS and other 911's are easily appreciated below 10/10ths on the track (if you specifically desire its particular traits).

Of course, they are totally different. My point was merely that if someone wants to drive a GT3RS on the road and not track it, then they should be able to do so with out being referred to as "poseurs". You don't need to be in an exclusive club of weekend track warriors to justify ownership, as some seem to be implying.

JoeRockhead:

Grant:

JoeRockhead:

^ Most people will never get 10/10ths from a base 911 on a track, let alone on the street. Buy what you like, regardless of whether it has a ridiculous wing on it or not, IMHO.

IMO, the differences between a GT3/RS and other 911's are easily appreciated below 10/10ths on the track (if you specifically desire its particular traits).

Of course, they are totally different. My point was merely that if someone wants to drive a GT3RS on the road and not track it, then they should be able to do so with out being referred to as "poseurs". You don't need to be in an exclusive club of weekend track warriors to justify ownership, as some seem to be implying.

Not everyone will be grouped in the same group. Of course there will be exceptions. 

A modern RS car is quite civilized already as compared to RS cars of yesteryears. If one REALLY WANTS TO, they can be a daily car. May not be the most comfortable, or practical, or efficient, but it can be done. 

With my previous GT2RS, maybe the most extreme of the street-able 991 GT cars, I did drove it just about every week, doing stuff. But the pitfall is that I am constantly pressing the front lift button, finding parking spots with a wide enough berth for me to open the door wider to get out of the bucket seat, and perhaps soften up the suspension for bumpy street roads. The big wing isn't an issue, it is high enough that it doesn't block the rear view mirror. The engine is perfectly fine putting along at traffic speed also. But by the same token, all the non-GT 911s will be that much more suitable for daily usage. And a GT3, or a turbo/turbo S would be sort of like the perfect compromise between extremes. 

Yes, the TT/TTS is arguably the best all around car ever made. 

I was at the OPC last week, and there were 3 GT3RS's in the service reception area, and none of them look like they had ever been driven except from the garage to their annual service appointments and back. 

Gnil:

Pilot:

This RS will be very desirable...

Planning on getting a new car ? 

No, I'm very happy with my current RS. Will you get one?

If I don't fly, I drive my .:RS :)

d997h:

Gnil:

nberry:

Let me put it another way. This is a street car with excellent track performance. What percent of miles put on this car will be on a track? 2%?

I can understand if the car was designed for almost exclusive track work and the intended audience is a professional driver. But its customer base is the average Joe who wants a special car different from the run of the mill 911 which he can enjoy primarily on the city streets. A whale tail sends the wrong message.

You have a very wrong perception of the RS.

The RS is not designed to be a road car at first. It is made to be the best track tool possible but with the possibility to drive it also on the road. Only with the 991 model (and PDK) did people start buying the RS to cruise boulevards. But that is not the philosophy of this car. 

 Maybe it is the case at your local dealer that customers don't track their RS. But generally people track their RS, at least in Europe.  People I know who own RS probably do more miles on the track then off the track.  Many don't even use them on the street. They only use them on track. You very seldom see one driving on the road but when you go to a track day, it is full of RS. I basically don't drive my RS on public roads anymore as it is pretty boring and frustrating. The only time I am on roads is when I drive to/from the track and once and a while I will do an alpine road for fun. 

…in my neighborhood you find exactly the people nberry talks about…so what ??? Who cares  as long as these people have their fun (what ever this means)…l am currently in ltaly for a german Club Cup meeting in Franciacorta on saturday and l fully agree that most RS trackies will bring their car on a trailer and will enjoy the beast on the track…

I thought the whole point of the RS is you could drive it to the track, not truck it!

Whoopsy:

JoeRockhead:

Grant:

JoeRockhead:

^ Most people will never get 10/10ths from a base 911 on a track, let alone on the street. Buy what you like, regardless of whether it has a ridiculous wing on it or not, IMHO.

IMO, the differences between a GT3/RS and other 911's are easily appreciated below 10/10ths on the track (if you specifically desire its particular traits).

Of course, they are totally different. My point was merely that if someone wants to drive a GT3RS on the road and not track it, then they should be able to do so with out being referred to as "poseurs". You don't need to be in an exclusive club of weekend track warriors to justify ownership, as some seem to be implying.

 

Not everyone will be grouped in the same group. Of course there will be exceptions. 

A modern RS car is quite civilized already as compared to RS cars of yesteryears. If one REALLY WANTS TO, they can be a daily car. May not be the most comfortable, or practical, or efficient, but it can be done. 

With my previous GT2RS, maybe the most extreme of the street-able 991 GT cars, I did drove it just about every week, doing stuff. But the pitfall is that I am constantly pressing the front lift button, finding parking spots with a wide enough berth for me to open the door wider to get out of the bucket seat, and perhaps soften up the suspension for bumpy street roads. The big wing isn't an issue, it is high enough that it doesn't block the rear view mirror. The engine is perfectly fine putting along at traffic speed also. But by the same token, all the non-GT 911s will be that much more suitable for daily usage. And a GT3, or a turbo/turbo S would be sort of like the perfect compromise between extremes. 

So Whoopsy, question for you, when you want to go out for a drive, do you take the GT2 RS, or do you take the turbo S, or something else. Because i think there is also a notion of what you like driving to justify the car, no? Now i am in London, and am fortunate to have two garage spaces, but that is for the Cayenne turbo and the GT4. I love driving both and frankly will take the GT4 in all circumstances where i dont need more than two seats. But if you are not garage constrained, what do you actually want to drive?

I would love to get an RS even though I have a GT3 on order and is coming this winter, however I hear Porsche Korea has no plans to import the RS for the difficulties of certification.  

I don't buy it as there are a number McLaren Sennas running around the streets here.  The RS wing is a replica of the Senna wing and Senna has complicated aerodynamics all around.  I even saw a Senna LM on the street the other day.

Porsche Korea is just lazy and do not cater to enthusiasts.  A couple of years ago, they abolished the entire GT cars from the import list.  This time, at least we get to enjoy the 992 GT3s, although the manual gear shift is still not offered, and still no GT3 touring.  I guess their plan is to cater to Poseurs, maybe? I belong to one of the circuit membership and have a high desire for a GT3 RS.  

Porsche sold over a $1 billion worth of cars in Korea last year, but Porsche Korea still does not have a track/Driver education program.  BMW Driving Center built their own track near the Incheon airport and AMG has a long-term contract with an existing circuit calling it AMG Speedway.  One has to wonder, if AMG and BMW represent motorsports better than the Porsche.

I needed to rant here because of frustration with Porsche Korea's laziness and hope someone higher up at Porsche HQ read this.

Even the 2021 Taycan Turbo S, I purchased, there's still no support for the Porsche app in Korea, so I am blind as to how much charge is left in my car.

This is harder to understand when a German guy, Holger Gerrmann, is appointed by Porsche to be the CEO of Porsche Korea and this is how it's being managed.  Do they appoint a German guy to be like an ambassador for symbolic reasons?  I hope he takes a deeper look at Korean market and has a stronger drive to lead the market.

996FourEss:

Whoopsy:

JoeRockhead:

Grant:

JoeRockhead:

^ Most people will never get 10/10ths from a base 911 on a track, let alone on the street. Buy what you like, regardless of whether it has a ridiculous wing on it or not, IMHO.

IMO, the differences between a GT3/RS and other 911's are easily appreciated below 10/10ths on the track (if you specifically desire its particular traits).

Of course, they are totally different. My point was merely that if someone wants to drive a GT3RS on the road and not track it, then they should be able to do so with out being referred to as "poseurs". You don't need to be in an exclusive club of weekend track warriors to justify ownership, as some seem to be implying.

 

Not everyone will be grouped in the same group. Of course there will be exceptions. 

A modern RS car is quite civilized already as compared to RS cars of yesteryears. If one REALLY WANTS TO, they can be a daily car. May not be the most comfortable, or practical, or efficient, but it can be done. 

With my previous GT2RS, maybe the most extreme of the street-able 991 GT cars, I did drove it just about every week, doing stuff. But the pitfall is that I am constantly pressing the front lift button, finding parking spots with a wide enough berth for me to open the door wider to get out of the bucket seat, and perhaps soften up the suspension for bumpy street roads. The big wing isn't an issue, it is high enough that it doesn't block the rear view mirror. The engine is perfectly fine putting along at traffic speed also. But by the same token, all the non-GT 911s will be that much more suitable for daily usage. And a GT3, or a turbo/turbo S would be sort of like the perfect compromise between extremes. 

So Whoopsy, question for you, when you want to go out for a drive, do you take the GT2 RS, or do you take the turbo S, or something else. Because i think there is also a notion of what you like driving to justify the car, no? Now i am in London, and am fortunate to have two garage spaces, but that is for the Cayenne turbo and the GT4. I love driving both and frankly will take the GT4 in all circumstances where i dont need more than two seats. But if you are not garage constrained, what do you actually want to drive?

Back when I had both the GT2RS and the Exclusive at the same place, my default choice of keys would be the gold key if I am just by myself or with my gf. No contest. But I do make sure at least once a week I take the blue key. 

Driving the GT2RS isn't as simple. While the Exclusive is a lump of bright gold color, it still goes undercover most of the time, unless someone really knows their stuff and ask about the car. No such luxury for the GT2RS, did't help that the car is a bright Miami Blue 911 with a giant wing on the back. 

My default 'just a drive' drive would be a round trip up to Whistler and back. very enjoyable highway. But the problem is that I had to go through downtown Vancouver, with grid lock traffic and maniac cyclists flying left right and centre running stop signs and red lights. Not unlike say Piccadilly Circus or even Brompton Road/Knightsbridge. 

While I love the 992's interior, it's probably not enough for me to get a 992 GT3. Perhaps I would find a 991 GT3 with 18 ways. That would work very nicely. 

--

996FourEss:

d997h:

Gnil:

nberry:

Let me put it another way. This is a street car with excellent track performance. What percent of miles put on this car will be on a track? 2%?

I can understand if the car was designed for almost exclusive track work and the intended audience is a professional driver. But its customer base is the average Joe who wants a special car different from the run of the mill 911 which he can enjoy primarily on the city streets. A whale tail sends the wrong message.

You have a very wrong perception of the RS.

The RS is not designed to be a road car at first. It is made to be the best track tool possible but with the possibility to drive it also on the road. Only with the 991 model (and PDK) did people start buying the RS to cruise boulevards. But that is not the philosophy of this car. 

 Maybe it is the case at your local dealer that customers don't track their RS. But generally people track their RS, at least in Europe.  People I know who own RS probably do more miles on the track then off the track.  Many don't even use them on the street. They only use them on track. You very seldom see one driving on the road but when you go to a track day, it is full of RS. I basically don't drive my RS on public roads anymore as it is pretty boring and frustrating. The only time I am on roads is when I drive to/from the track and once and a while I will do an alpine road for fun. 

…in my neighborhood you find exactly the people nberry talks about…so what ??? Who cares  as long as these people have their fun (what ever this means)…l am currently in ltaly for a german Club Cup meeting in Franciacorta on saturday and l fully agree that most RS trackies will bring their car on a trailer and will enjoy the beast on the track…

I thought the whole point of the RS is you could drive it to the track, not truck it!

Well, some people are concerned on the mileage they put on, other say, it is a more comfortable drive in an SUV with a trailer to the track etc. …

the-missile:

Gnil:

You would probably be very happy with the GT3. The 992 GT3 had a general look/feeling in real life close the 991. GT3 RS

I don't want to upset you but much closer than 991.2 GT3RS than you think and actually beyond its performance.

Why would that upset me? I said the same. 992 GT3 in real life feels/looks very close to the 991.2 RS. As to performance I would say the same. In the hands of a pro 992 GT3 is  what, 1 or 2 sec faster on a 21km track. No difference.   And all the 992 GT3 I have encountered up to now on the track were slower then my RS. 

The point was to say to NBerry that the 992 GT3 feels/is  more extreme in the look department  then the 991 GT3 and thus could make a very good car for him 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Pilot:

Gnil:

Pilot:

This RS will be very desirable...

Planning on getting a new car ? 

No, I'm very happy with my current RS. Will you get one?

Did not plan to, but my current RS will be close to 35k km by the end of this season. Need to think what is best to do. 

I would not change it for performance/ look reasons. The current one is way enough. 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Gnil:

Why would that upset me? I said the same. 992 GT3 in real life feels/looks very close to the 991.2 RS. As to performance I would say the same. In the hands of a pro 992 GT3 is  what, 1 or 2 sec faster on a 21km track. No difference.   And all the 992 GT3 I have encountered up to now on the track were slower then my RS. 

The point was to say to NBerry that the 992 GT3 feels/is  more extreme in the look department  then the 991 GT3 and thus could make a very good car for him 

Between 992 and 991.2RS, I would still go for the RS as 992 is just fatty. 992RS will be a different subject

Nick is torn between Starbucks and a potential track day session, in both cases the wing will be useful, either as a table or for downforce purpose. The issue is simple, he drinks too much coffee and is scared to go on a track.

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

The issue is simple, he drinks too much coffee and is scared to go on a track.

 Me too, now l know what l have been missing about my car…

I will admit that if I paid close to $250,000 taxes included for a car I want it to standout and be noticed. The RS gets a lot of attention and I enjoy that. It also makes me a better driver.
 

But what I can’t accept is if the car becomes a source of ridicule. There is a fine line between a high performance car for street use which garners respect and admiration and one designed primarily for track use but looks out of place on the street. That’s my concern with a whale tail. 
 

Btw, for years I tracked Porsche’s but what stopped me from tracking is the incredibly bad drivers and auto insurance companies no longer covering track related accidents. So damn right I scared to track.

The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

nberry:

I will admit that if I paid close to $250,000 taxes included for a car I want it to standout and be noticed.

Different strokes for different folks, but I hope as few people as possible notice that I have spent a disproportionate amount of my net worth on a toy 

I would be delighted if people assumed my $175k car cost only $75k 

--

22 GT3 Manual pending, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Grant, you're being too modest.

The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

nberry:

Grant, you're being too modest.

Or you're not being modest enough 

22 GT3 Manual pending, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Porker:

Absurdly these 992 RS spy shots make me wish for yet another variant, an RS Touring 

You will have the chance to buy this car from Zuffenhausen in the near future……but it will be called different.

Blueflame

Grant:

nberry:

Grant, you're being too modest.

Or you're not being modest enough 

2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White

bluelines:

Grant:

nberry:

Grant, you're being too modest.

Or you're not being modest enough 

blueflame:

Porker:

Absurdly these 992 RS spy shots make me wish for yet another variant, an RS Touring 

You will have the chance to buy this car from Zuffenhausen in the near future……but it will be called different.

Blueflame

Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys

blueflame:

Porker:

Absurdly these 992 RS spy shots make me wish for yet another variant, an RS Touring 

You will have the chance to buy this car from Zuffenhausen in the near future……but it will be called different.

...Porsche 992 Carrera RS 50th Anniversary perhaps? 

blueflame:

Porker:

Absurdly these 992 RS spy shots make me wish for yet another variant, an RS Touring 

You will have the chance to buy this car from Zuffenhausen in the near future……but it will be called different.

Blueflame

tell me more!

1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF

Boxster Coupe GTS:

blueflame:

Porker:

Absurdly these 992 RS spy shots make me wish for yet another variant, an RS Touring 

You will have the chance to buy this car from Zuffenhausen in the near future……but it will be called different.

...Porsche 992 Carrera RS 50th Anniversary perhaps? 

Perhaps, Porsche sold that layout to LEGO…

Is it possible that give the hardcore design of the RS for track use, that Porsche sells the car exclusively for track use and not certified for street use? 

The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.