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    Apr 21, 2002 9:35:06 PM

    DUANE
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    Question on X50

    Does anyone know what Turbo's are used in the X50? I have confirmed by getting the part number that they are different than stock and different than than GT2 turbos. I am wondering if they are kkk 24 Turbos. Also does the X50 have 100 cell cats? In the US it is very secretive as to what exactly you get with the X50 and feedback would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

    Apr 22, 2002 8:57:39 AM

    LG1
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    Reply to: DUANE

    Re: Question on X50

    My understanding is that the X50 turbos are the k24s, which are the same ones on my GT2.It's confusing, because I too have heard that there is some difference between GT2 and X50 turbos.

    Apr 22, 2002 3:04:44 PM

    DUANE
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    Reply to: LG1

    Re: Question on X50

    Luigi,
    All I can confirm at this point is that the x50 turbo's are differnt part numbers than the Gt2 turbos. I checked with my dealer and they are the same price as the GT2 turbo's $2700.00 Do you know if the GT2 has the full KKK k24 turbos? From what I have heard that some parts from the k24's are used in the GT2 but I have heard that it is not the full kkk k24 that most tuners offer in thier 540 package.

    Duane

    Apr 23, 2002 3:46:07 AM

    RCA
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    RC
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    Reply to: DUANE

    Re: Question on X50

    K24 is not always K24. K24 doesn't actually mean much, K16 doesn't mean much either. These are only some numbers used by the manufacturer to identify certain turbo chargers but the interior (like impellers) can be completely different.
    Yes, there is a slight difference between the GT2 and X50 turbo chargers because of the missing 12 HP and some differences in the motronic software programming on the X50 due to the shorter shift ratio in the 6. gear.

    If you want to retrofit X50 on your 996 Turbo, you need the following parts: turbo chargers, intercoolers, exhaust system, gearbox.
    The intercoolers are the same as on the GT2, the exhaust system too as far as I know. No, this is not a 100 cell cat system. The gearbox is NOT the same as on the GT2, it is actually a 996 Turbo gearbox with a shorter 6. gear and it has NO oil cooler as on the GT2 gearbox.
    Hope this helps. If you tell us more about what you want to do or for what you need this information for, I might be able to give you more precise answers.

    Apr 24, 2002 2:47:37 AM

    DUANE
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Question on X50

    RC,
    Actually I am taking delivery of my X50 next week. Having owned a regular TT I am very curious to see if there is a big difference. You had stated that there is a 12HP difference between the GT2. The X50 has 450HP and from what I understand the GT2 has 456HP. I am curious about the the Turbos because I plan on doing alot of modifacations. My goal is to obtain 600HP. I know that in most of the 600HP turbos I have seen they all have kkk k24 turbos. If in fact they are k24s I can do the exhaust,unichip and airfilter and should be around 580HP. If they are not k24 I SHOULD be around 520HP with those mods. Also I have heard that Porsche made the tranny stronger on the X50 as well as the different gearing. Another thing is that I heard that x50 does infact have the GT2 intercoolers. Us X50 owners have been left in the dark and looking for answers so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


    Apr 24, 2002 3:28:17 AM

    RCA
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    RC
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    Reply to: DUANE

    Re: Question on X50

    Well, first at all: congrats. In Germany, the 996 Turbo X50 has 450 HP, the GT2 has 462 HP. The difference is 12 HP. Sorry I can't always take in account the HP figures from other countries, my mistake.
    Getting 600 HP without substantial modifications isn't easy. Don't trust Tuners who tell you that you just have to modify the motronic and the exhaust and you get 600 HP. This is BS. Even 580 HP are hard to get this way.
    From what I talked to several tuners (and they know they can't BS me because I ask many many questions ), I'd say that with a 996 Turbo X50, you could gain around 540 HP with motronic, (minor) turbo charger tweaks, exhaust manifold and exhaust system mods. To get REAL 600 HP out of your 996 Turbo X50 is pretty unrealistic without doing some further mods to the interior of the engine. Adapting the Variocam Plus timing would be necessary too, something which is a very delicate job and should be done by real pros only who know what they're doing. Yes, the X50 has the GT2 intercoolers (5% more cooling efficiency) but the gearbox isn't really enforced. It is a 996 Turbo gearbox with a shorter 6th gear and it even costs the same (as a spare part) as the regular 996 Turbo gearbox (we checked it in the parts computer). The shorter 6th gear actually poses a little problem to tuners, especially when it comes to the german market without speed limit.
    If you want to push up your TT to 600 HP, you'd need a stronger clutch too with a stronger pressure plate. Hands off the one mass flywheel, it makes a lot of noise and it's advantages are mainly on the track. I highly recommend a gearbox oil cooler too which improves gearbox reliability much more than steel synchron rings ( if you don't track race your TT every single day).
    I give you a very good advise and you shouldn't forget it:
    to get REAL 600 HP out of the 996 TT is possible but cost is very high. Don't trust Tuners ! Most of them BS you with fabulous numbers or present "satisfied" customers who actually don't even know how much HP they have in their car for real. Don't trust dyno sheets, they're usually useless. Go to a well known trusted Tuner of your choice, prepare yourself to spend big bucks and expect some realistic power figures. Everything up to 480 HP is easy to get out of a 996 Turbo. Everything up to 500 HP is easy to get but needs some more investement. Everything up to 540 HP needs some further mods and even more investement. And going beyond 540 HP (let's say 560-580 HP) ... we're already talking big money. Everything over 600 HP up to 620 HP needs big money and big mods. Don't trust Tuners who tell you that it is easily done and with low cost. It can't be done this way. I know that some tuners even offer more than 700 HP but I'd personally keep my hands off that stuff. A "reliable" (in terms of less risk of an engine/drivetrain failure) tuning would be around 480-520 HP. Figures up to 540-560 HP are already at the TT's "benchmark" and you shouldn't do it if you track race your car.
    Regarding power claims: I can get 600 HP out of a regular TT with motronic and exhaust mods only. But this car wouldn't be driveable anymore because of the ruined engine response/torque setup. HP figures are not everything and you should also be aware that even a 600 HP power upgrade gives you a REAL performance upgrade at speeds over 100 mph only. If I were you, I'd go with a 540 HP upgrade (including modified motronic, airfilter, exhaust system, exhaust manifold and some minor turbo charger tweaks) and add a stronger clutch with stronger pressure plate and a gearbox oil cooler to it. From my personal point of view (and from what I discussed with several tuners), this has the best money/reliability/performance ratio. Adding the GT2 wheels to your X50 TT will slow down acceleration because of the different wheel circumference ratio (gets longer by aprox. 7-8%). Advantage of the GT2 wheels: they look original but cool (due to the wider rear rims/tires), handling is improved especially in conjunction with a H&R coilover kit) and with X50, you get a higher top end speed which annihilates the shorter 6. gear ratio. Disadvantage: acceleration will be slightly slower (around 2 seconds from 0-300 kph !). BTW: the power figures I was talking about are obtained with 98 octane ROZ fuel (= 95 octane US). Considering that the "usual" fuel found in the US is 93 octane, the power figures can be even lower. Some Tuners also tend to "turn off" the knock sensor or slow it down by bad programming, so fuel quality might be a problem too. Last but not least: one (trustable) Tuner told me one thing: a good job can be done only, if the Tuner has the car on the spot and if he's able to modify it individually. The "mail-in" jobs might work but they don't give good results if you're seeking high power figures. I hope I could help a bit and don't mind if I tell you something you won't like: it would have been "easier" with less cost (taking X50 cost in consideration) to modify your car if you wouldn't have ordered X50. This is why some reputable Tuners have one advise for their customers: don't buy the X50 if you want to upgrade your car. The only advantage are the K24 chargers but paying so much money for the chargers only ?!
    The GT2 intercoolers are pretty cheap and the gearbox with the shorter 6. gear is no advantage.
    I hope I wasn't too "honest" with you, good luck.

    Apr 24, 2002 11:55:34 AM

    DUANE
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Question on X50

    Wow RC thanks for the response. I do not know where to start. First of all the I am a little confused on what you mean about the .6 6th gear. I definatly plan to change the clutch but what do you mean that there will be more noise? I agree with you that I am going to spend some money to obtain 600HP but thanks to CJV on rennlist he has done alot of R&D that I should be able to benefit from. His car is putting out 650HP. To obtain this on the engine side he has done the following.

    1. Unichip with with A/B switch a for 93 octane and B is for 100 octane.
    2. Ruf exhaust
    3. kkk K24 Turbos
    3. GT2 Intercoolers
    4. Ceramic Coated headers
    5. Two additional custom fabricated injectors
    6. Differnt steel sycncros 2 through 6th I think
    7. Single Mass Fly wheel with Sacchs clutch (think I stated it right)


    My next question is why do you not reccomend tracking the car if you go over 560HP.

    As far as suspension I have ordered the Techart coilovers which consist of Bilstein shocks and Eibach springs. What are my options if I do not go with the GT2 rims and tires? Do you thinks its worth the tradeoff in acceleration?

    I appreciate your feedback and plan on posting updates as I go along. Thanks in advance

    Duane

    Apr 25, 2002 3:13:27 AM

    RCA
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    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
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    Reply to: DUANE

    Re: Question on X50

    Why are you confused about the 6. gear ? Porsche changed the gear ratio on the 6. gear to improve performance and to be sure that the X50 cars don't run too fast. The top speed difference between a regular 996 Turbo and a X50 Turbo is only 2 kph. Guess why ?!
    The one mass flywheel is VERY noisy, don't do it if you still want to be able to take your girl friend/wife with you, if you use your car as a daily driver or if you have a quiet neighbourhood. I'm serious about that, there is a lot of noise.
    I know cjv's story and I discussed it with two well known Tuners. Both doubt the output of 650 HP. I know that cjv has done a lot of dyno testing, etc. etc. but the doubts are understandable. To give you an example: to obtain 626 HP, RS-Tuning, one of the most appreciated Porsche tuners in Europe and especially in Germany, needs to install new camshafts too, to do some work on the cylindre heads and to install a new butterfly valve (I hope this is the right english name for "Drosselklappe"). They also need to do several test runs to adapt the software and the turbo chargers, so they need the car on the spot. Maximum output with all the knowledge and technique RS-Tuning has: 626 HP.
    Streetlegal in Germany, passing all new emission laws over there. I don't know about cjv's car, don't know if the 650 HP claim is with 100 octane (US) fuel and I don't know if his car passes all emissions tests. But I've been also told by several Tuners that they don't like "switchable" power upgrades because this could harm the engine under extreme operating conditions. BTW: you might want to know how much RS-Tuning charges for a 626 HP power upgrade in Germany: we're talking about something around 40000 USD (yes, fourtythousand). Any more questions ?
    To make it short: don't believe everything you read or you hear unless you saw and experienced it PERSONALLY.
    Before getting into the 996 Turbo tuning stuff, I heard so many stories from people about this and that and fabulous power upgrades. It isn't difficult to gain 700 HP out of the 996 Turbo engine but how long will it last and how much fun will it be to drive ?
    The steel synchron rings make sense for track racing but a gearbox oil cooler is the better choice for tuned cars, especially for street driving.
    Why it isn't safe to track race a tuned Turbo ? Well, if you want to keep your car longer and enjoy it, you should stay below that figure. RS-Tuning for example asks customers if they want to use the car for the street or for the track to adapt the power/torque curve.
    For track racing, the best solution is a mild motronic upgrade (up to 1.0 bar boost), a sport exhaust with high flow catalysts and a sport airfilter. We're talking now about 480-490 HP. Adding a sport clutch with stronger pressure plate and a gearbox oil cooler might be a good idea too. Now reduce the weight of such a car and you have a very nice performer without compromising reliability too much. Last but not least, don't forget the factory warranty. A 996 Turbo engine costs a fortune and if I say a "fortune", I mean it. Ask your dealer and you'll be shocked. ANY mod can be tracked down, don't believe the BS Tuners tell you. You HAVE to be aware of it before modifying your car. Because as soon as your dealer finds out, you might be in trouble ... or not. It depends on your relationship with your dealer and if you have major problems with your car after the engine upgrade or not.
    Don't trust people who tell you this is no problem. Most of them NEVER had to deal with Porsche or PCNA when it came to warranty repairs. And trust me: if your engine brakes down and you need a new one, PCNA will send somebody over to check.
    The GT2 rims/tires look nice and I love how they look on the 996 Turbo because they actually have the original Turbo look but are wider. A kind of original tuning, I like that. The tradeoff depends on what you're doing with your Turbo. If you're drag racing, you might not like the GT2 wheels.
    Regarding suspension mods on the 996 Turbo: H&R is the best way to go. Why ? Heinz Remmen, the owner of H&R (and RS-Tuning customer BTW ), owns two 996 Turbos and he always takes care that his R&D department does it's job right. Porsche uses H&R suspension kits on their race cars, why shouldn't WE do that ?

    Duane, I know that the internet if full of people who share experiences and give advises, good or bad. I'm maybe one of these guys. But you should always try to experience yourself what you want to buy. Never be too impressed by technical figures before you didn't drive several tuned cars to have a comparison. I drove a tuned 996 Turbo a while ago and I was impressed, very impressed. Later I found out that I shouldn't have been impressed because this car wasn't that fast as I thought. Before you make a decision, try to evaluate all options. And never forget the best advise ever: what sound too good (cheap) to be true, can't be true. Again: if you want "high quality" 600 HP, we're talking about big big money. The choice is yours.

    Apr 25, 2002 3:53:13 AM

    william
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    william
    Loc: New York/Hong Kong , Hong Kong
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Question on X50

    consider where I am living right now, it is rather difficult for me to access tuner like RS-Tunning, Ruf. I suppose I have to ship the car over there for them to do the work?

    As for my dealer near my area, they offer upgrade through EVO. I really don't trust them, they sound alittle too good to be true as you said

    So My question is what is the best way to get RS-Tunning engineers to do my car around my area? Is it possible to buy the parts from them and go from there?

    Apr 25, 2002 5:55:36 AM

    RCA
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    RC
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    Reply to: william

    Re: Question on X50

    First at all I don't want you guys to understand me wrong. I don't make advertisement for RS-Tuning, I just consider from my knowledge that they're honest and deliver a good job. Nothing more, nothing less. As far as I heard, Cargraphic USA is a dealer for RS-Tuning stuff. So you can order the parts from them and have the install done by somebody else (maybe somebody they recommend, I don't know yet). If you're willing to pay big money and need a high quality tuning, they (RS-Tuning) can send their people out to your place and do the job. RUF does the same thing as far as I know. The best thing would be to bring your car to Germany and let RS-Tuning (or RUF) do the job. Only "problem": if you have problems afterwards, it might take some time until they solve it.
    This is why I actually recommend to US Turbo owners to get somebody in the US to do the job. There are high quality tuners out there too but you have to find them. Usually the Tuners with less promises but high price tags are the best but this isn't a rule, watch out. Ask around (not only on the net) and don't believe everything you hear. Dyno runs are pretty difficult on the TT (because of the 4WD and cooling problems) and they're seldom done properly. Don't trust a Tuner who shows you a dyno sheet only. I heard about Evotech but in Germany, they're not a Porsche Tuner but a Audi/VW,BMW,Jeep,Mercedes,Skoda Tuner. I never heard of them regarding Porsche Tuning but they sell "german quality" tuning stuff to the US. Maybe it is high quality, I don't know. I just don't understand why they don't serve the german Porsche market. Strange.
    And last but not least, you have to understand one thing: a lot of people who have their Turbos tuned pay a lot of money for that. Most of them will never aknowledge (maybe even not notice) that the tuning didn't deliver the power they wanted or the Tuner claimed to deliver. The best testing ground is still the "real life" testing ground: if I drive on the Autobahn and a guy in his XYZ sportscar keeps staying on my back up to 200 mph, then I know how good my car is or not. And reliability is sometimes worth a few horses less, going for the maximum possible HP setup isn't a good idea. No matter what some smartguys tell you but the TT's engine and especially the drivetrain aren't made for 600 HP. The engine itself (crankcase) is good for over 600 HP but not all parts inside it. And some people even rip off the 4WD to save weight but this is the biggest mistake because you then have the full power/torque on two wheels only causing even more wear.
    And the most "funny" thing: up to 125 mph, the 600 HP version isn't much faster than the 540 HP version ... only maximum a second difference. When did you drive 200 mph lately ? I know high power figures impress and sound good but trust me, lowering weight and staying in the 500-540 HP range is the smartest thing people can do.

    Apr 25, 2002 3:01:36 PM

    VS+
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    Reply to: RCA

    CJV and Unichip

    RC,
    I pretty much agree with all what you say about tuning. In part, that's the reason my engine is NOT modified
    Just a comment regarding Chad (CJV) and his car. It is not hard to believe that his car is capable of 650hp. I suspect that for what he invested in engine tuning, he could have gotten at least 1.5 RS-Tuning Kit 5 As you know, his tuner The Racers Group has a pretty good racing record so they probably know what they are doing. Also, comparing his mods and RS Kit 5 that you describe, it does not sound that dissimilar. Modified butterflies vs. additional injectors - may serve the same purpose in the end. Of course, we know nothing about longeivity. Ah well, those are just speculations...

    What interests me though is all that is achieved with Unichip which is a piggyback computer developed by the South African company Dastek www.dastek.co.za and marketed in the US by TRG. The results obtained with Unichip are similar to those obtained with re-programmed ECU. I am wondering what the German tuners community thinks of Unichip. Are there any apparrent drawbacks as compared to more traditional ECU tuning?

    Apr 25, 2002 5:27:17 PM

    Bad TT
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    Bad TT
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    Reply to: DUANE

    Re: modifyining an X50

    Why are you even GETTing an x50????. For less than the cost of that
    option you can get EVO stage 4 which you 505 RWHP.Think about it!!!!!!!!
    email me or call 909 383-9000 .I've had the EVO products in my car for 12000 miles
    no problems.

    Apr 25, 2002 5:37:06 PM

    Bad TT
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    Bad TT
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    Reply to: william

    Re: trusting EVO

    William
    YOU CAN TRUST THESE GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I'm living proof. I've had their stage 3 in my car for 12000 miles
    stage 4 for 1000 miles. I'm no novice I watched the stage 3 dynojt give me 480 RWHP
    Todd did a dyno after stage 4 he said it was 505 RWHP, 600ft/lbs. My buttmeter has no reason
    to doubt him.this is probably 555-560 flywheel HP for less than the cost of the x50!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Apr 25, 2002 9:02:10 PM

    william
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    Reply to: Bad TT

    Re: trusting EVO

    I am sure they are still great tunning company but my instint always lead me to German tuner like the Ruf, Rs-tunning...etc, After my first engine blew, (defect). I am starting to be alittle afraid

    My goal of modifying my car is just to gain alittle more HP at certain range in the RPM. IMO, It is not nessary for me to increase it to 600HP where it can not be used in the track. Its the combination of many things, balance of power if I did use the word correctly. The company I really incline to bring my car for tunning is Ruf.

    I did actually drove the Evo stage 3, and the power is very impressive while when the HP and torque kick in is really not usable in my track. I am sure Evo stage 4 is very very very fast in staight line and highway . But for track use, more power doesn't really always mean faster.. its really a combination of many things.

    Apr 26, 2002 12:09:58 AM

    DUANE
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    Reply to: Bad TT

    Re: trusting EVO

    Hey Wayne,
    I agree that those are real numbers. However having the warranty in effect is worth something. Not that it does for me because I plan extensive mods.

    Apr 26, 2002 3:20:08 AM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
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    Reply to: VS+

    Re: CJV and Unichip

    Most german tuners who also have racing teams don't use piggy back computers. There seems to be a problem with them but I can't go into detail because I really don't know the details. Can't say much about unichip, from my knowledge there is no german Porsche tuner who uses it (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
    So some people might say "so what, no german Porsche tuner uses this stuff but what do I care in the US ?". Well, then ask yourself WHY no german tuner uses this stuff, there has to be a reason. RS-Tuning for example has a racing team and they had pretty glorious times in the past. There are other tuners too who did a lot of racing, tuners which might not be even known in the US because they're very little but extremely capable. For example: did you ever hear of Kadach ? This guy is the best pro for suspension setups in Germany. Check his site www.kadach.com . This guy is so good that he even uses the luxury to choose his customers. He also runs a racing team, a professional one. One one example, there are others. Now let me ask you guys a question: assuming that I'd own a Corvette or a Viper, which tuner should I go for ? Should I go for a german tuner who tunes a few cars and doesn't have much racing experience or should I go for a US tuner who knows these cars best because of their extensive experience ?
    Regarding EVO: the price sounds right for a good tuning. I know this sounds strange but when I hear from other tuners offering 540 HP kits for a few thousand bucks, this is impossible, at least when you want good quality. Unfortunately I don't have any experience with EVO but as they're from Germany, I assume that they might have somebody else developing these kits for them, maybe even RS-Tuning or former Lotec, now named TTP. TTP does a lot of stuff for US tuners who then sell these products under their own name brand.
    PERSONALLY (not by phone or e-mail !) knowing two or three satisfied Tuner customers (and maybe their cars too) can be a good start for choosing the right Tuner.
    Regarding track racing a tuned Turbo: it can go well, it can go wrong. A well known guy in Germany tuned his Turbo to 700 HP and ripped off the 4WD. A great performing car, even if almost undriveable on the track because of the high torque and missing 4WD. Guess what, after a few racing days, the engine blew. I saw this car and the engine with my own eyes, this is no story I made up. So 700 HP are way too much for the 996 Turbo.
    Then I met a guy with a GT2 who did tune his car to 540 HP. He felt very sorry about it because this car was almost undriveable on the track. They had to completely change the programming of the motronic to satisfy him and he was very upset. But driving a GT2 with 540 HP is no kiddy play. Who ever drove a GT2 knows what I'm talking about.
    It is difficult to give a good advise regarding tuning because a lot of things can go wrong, even with a high quality tuning. But as one tuner told me (I don't know if I should take this serious but I always think about it): if the engine doesn't brake down the first 20000 km, it won't brake down at all, even with 540 HP. That said, we should take every word with a grain of salt.

    Apr 26, 2002 4:34:00 PM

    Bad TT
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    Bad TT
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 20000 km benchmark

    Hey I guess I'm in. my stage 3 has 12500 miles.No problems heavy usage. I only have 1000 miles
    on the stage 4 (which is about 25 RWHP more). This is a program based on high octane fuel and
    isn't very different from the base program.

    Apr 26, 2002 6:04:25 PM

    Ron (Houston)M
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    Ron (Houston)
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    Reply to: DUANE

    Duane, let us know how different

    is your new X50 Vs. 996TT stock.

    Apr 29, 2002 12:56:30 AM

    LG1
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: CJV and Unichip

    I agree with RC, for track use power is not the most important thing.
    You need a good balance between power, power delivery, traction, braking efficiency...
    Especially with a car like the GT2 which is a challenging car to drive at 10/10ths.

    May 1, 2002 12:25:22 AM

    cjv
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    Reply to: VS+

    Re: CJV and Unichip

    VS+

    Your right about the 650 hp, we backed it down to 629 fwhp or 546 rwhp. It's repeatable on The Racers Group dyno run after run. The car is also very streetable up to about 3500 rpm's. Then it transforms from Dr. Jeckel to Mr. Hyde. Believe it or not. You mentioned one item that peaked my interest. What is the modified butterfly valve? What exactly is being done? Where can I obtain more information?

    May 3, 2002 1:53:32 AM

    cjv
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Question on X50

    RC Germany

    I do not know what brand or who installed the "noisy" single mass flywheel you refered to but, mine is not "noisy" at all.
    You stated the RS 625 HP conversion installed modified cams. What is the purpose of these cams? The power range (rpm's power range) will remain within the same bands, let's say a spread of 4000 rpm's. The modified cam will either raise or lower where this range starts but the spread will be about the same. Without strenghtening the internals (rods etc) and improving oil circulation there would be no benefit to raising start of the range. Stock 996tt internals are probably safe to no more than 7300 rpm's and this would be for a very limited duration. I have set my engine redline to 7000 rpm's.
    Your question as to what fuel my hp was developed with, the answer is 100 octane. I have a question for you? Is the RS Tuning figure of 626 a bhp or sae hp rating. An equilivent bhp is less than sae hp. My figures are SAE.
    I agree with your comment about 700 hp and longevity. I also do not believe it can be obtained without internal modifications. I could be wrong.
    If you would like to forget flywheel hp my rwhp is 546 max. Because of longevity concerns, due to no internal modificarions to date, we have backed the power off to 529 rwhp for everday street use.
    One other correction, we did install steel syncro's in 2nd thru 6th. We also re geared the transmission from 3rd thru 6th.

    May 5, 2002 7:05:54 AM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59590, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: cjv

    Re: Question on X50

    I heard three Turbos with single mass flywheel and all of them were pretty noisy from my understanding. After a "warm-up", the noise usually dissapears in most rpm ranges but it is still noticeable. What the purpose of the RS-Tuning installed Cams are, I really don't know. I know that RS-Tuning tried to obtain the power without modified cams but they switched back to them. Why ? I'll try to find out in the next few days. Right now I just returned from a 3 week US vacation and have to get my business/prive things back together until I have some more time to gather information. Hope you understand.
    The modified Turbos I saw and testdrove had their rpm limiter set at max. 7200. One car had it set at stock limit because of the speed index of the tires which was an issue here in Germany because the car would have run a faster speed than the tires are approved for. Setting the redline at 7000 was a very good idea I guess.
    100 octane US is 103 octane in Europe. The RS-Tuning kits are all bhp (not SAE) and are adapted to 98 octane (95 octane US). Steel synchros are a great thing, especially for track racing but from what I heard from two german Tuners, the gearbox oil cooler is more effective, especially for street driving or moderate track racing. One side effect of the attached gearbox oil cooler seems to be the cooling of the rear axle.
    You said you regeared transmission ? How ? I'd be very interested. What rims/tires are you running on your car ?
    We want to make a report on tuned Turbos in the near future and any information is greatly appreciated. )
    Your Turbos seems to be a real beast now, "real" 529/546 on the flywheel sound pretty impressive ?!

    May 5, 2002 2:24:31 PM

    cjv
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    cjv
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Question on X50

    RC Germany
    I am interested in the gear box oil cooler you mentioned. Who makes them? Do you have a website or e-mail for them? Regarding my gears, I don't have the actual ratio's at this time but mph @ 7000 rpm's in 1st thru 6th are 39.6, 73.7, 100.8, 129.2, 157.4 and 184.1 mph. My top end by German standards would not be good but in the US it is plenty. The advantage is response and acceleration either in a straight line or coming out of a turn. 0-150 mph time is 10.72 seconds. The wheels are Fikse FM10's with custom offsets to accomodate the GT3R brakes and calipers. Fronts wheels are 8.5 inches wide (215.9 mm) the rears are 11.5 inches (292.10 mm) The above gear speeds were based on the stock Pirelli 225/40ZR18 fronts and 295/30ZR18's rear. Presently we are running Pirelli 235/40ZR18's front and 315/30ZR18's rear. This will slow acceleration a bit and raise top speed to about 190 mph.

    May 5, 2002 9:35:20 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59590, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: cjv

    Re: Question on X50

    The gearbox oil cooler is distributed and mounted by RS-Tuning. It can be retrofitted to all 996 Turbos. Unfortunately it seems it requires some special mounting/adapting technical processes and can be done at RS-Tuning's HQ in Germany only (not quite sure if this is true but I'll find out soon). Thanks for the data you provided, I really appreciate it.
    Did you have to modify the front wheel carrier to mount the GT3 R brake ? There seem to be some problems with the GT2 steel brake (or GT3 Cup Facelift brake).
    0-150 mph time is 10.72 seconds ? Are you sure ? The new Gemballa GTR 750 does 0-150 mph in 12.9 seconds. Maybe the re-gearing makes a big difference ?!
    I attached a picture of the gearbox oil cooler.

    May 5, 2002 9:55:44 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Question on X50 ... forgot

    Forgot to explain something: there is also a radiator which is attached to the whole system. This radiator is not shown on the picture.

    May 6, 2002 12:15:20 AM

    cjv
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    cjv
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Question on X50

    RC, thanks for the picture. I'll await what you find out about the gear cooler. Hopefully they will sell it and we can install it with some instructions. There are a couple of good Porsche 996tt transmission specialists in the states. The Racers Group installed the GT3R brakes. Yes the front had some custom machining done. The emergency brake was also custom fabricated by TRG. The 0-150 time is correct. The gears make a big difference. Third thru sixth pull just like 1st and 2nd. My car also accelerates faster due to the reduced flywheel weight, Sachs racing clutch and short shifter. Regarding Gemballa, I don't know what they did to their engine but just guessing I believe they call it 750 hp bhp that would be about 740 hp SAE. I am guessing they rounded out the 750 hp and it is probably something less. What I don't understand is their torque figures. I believe it was something around 640 ft. lbs. of torque with 750 hp. TechArt is getting 584 hp @ 5000 rpm's and 592 hp and 606 ft. lbs. @ 6000 rpm's. I'm producing 666 ft. lbs. of torque @ 5500 rpm's according to the TRG dyno. My rwhp at this point is 514 hp. If you know what they did to their motor let me know. It would be interesting to compare.

    May 8, 2002 9:21:56 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
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    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: cjv

    Re: Question on X50

    Tuners usually don't make public details about the technical part of their work. Unfortunately. On the 18th of may, there will be the Tuner Grand Prix 2002 at the Hockenheim Ring in Germany. All major Porsche Tuners will participate and maybe I get the chance to get some more detailled infos over there. I'll keep you updated.

    May 26, 2002 3:36:10 AM

    cjv
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Question on X50

    RC, I have a correction to make. The 10.72 time was 0-140 mph not 0-150 mph.

    May 26, 2002 2:15:54 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59590, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: cjv

    Re: Question on X50

    Now that sounds much better now. I was already wondering how fast your Turbo is. Well, it still is VERY fast.

    May 26, 2002 3:56:26 PM

    cjv
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Question on X50

    RC, in about 60 days the next phase will be complete. We are enlarging the intake passages, knife edging crank, Ruf Titanium conrods, GT1 oil pump, nickasil valve guides, machining heads to accept metal o-rings, port/polishing heads, GT3R valve springs and re balncing motor. Don't know where we will end up, but will let you know.
     
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