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Re: Challenge Stradale: 0-200 km/h
I would assume that the top speed difference is due to better areodynamics in favor of the Porsche, suprisingly, the Cx of the 360 is not brilliant.
But appart from that, yes it is impressive to see that the GT3 is so close in terms of performance whereas on the paper, the Stradale should be much better.
Looking forward to read the comparaison test, EVO mag wrote it's the first thing they'll do if they can get hold of the two cars.
In that same mag, I know he's obviously biased but Walter Rohrl said that the Stradale will have a hard job bettering the new GT3.
I would assume Mr. Rohrl knows the new GT3 pretty well
but he certainly doesn't know the Stradale, although he mentionned Porsche benchmarked the GT3 Development agains the NSXR and the standard 360, and both were miles away apparently, main problem on the 360 according to Rohrl is that traction control spoils the experience, and the car is much trickier on the limit compared with the GT3.
Fanch.
But appart from that, yes it is impressive to see that the GT3 is so close in terms of performance whereas on the paper, the Stradale should be much better.
Looking forward to read the comparaison test, EVO mag wrote it's the first thing they'll do if they can get hold of the two cars.
In that same mag, I know he's obviously biased but Walter Rohrl said that the Stradale will have a hard job bettering the new GT3.
I would assume Mr. Rohrl knows the new GT3 pretty well
but he certainly doesn't know the Stradale, although he mentionned Porsche benchmarked the GT3 Development agains the NSXR and the standard 360, and both were miles away apparently, main problem on the 360 according to Rohrl is that traction control spoils the experience, and the car is much trickier on the limit compared with the GT3.Fanch.
Re: Challenge Stradale: 0-200 km/h
i don't beleiev that the CS's topspeed is just 300 km/h. ferrari constantly forced themselves to keep the 8 cylinder modells slower than 300, in order to keep the more expensive 12 cylinders even more exclusive.
so the CS should do a better job in accelerating and topspeed as the GT3, which is also to heavy to be really fast.
i bet as much as i have that the CS will sent the GT3 through the roof.
hope the EVO showdown will take place very soon
best, floren
so the CS should do a better job in accelerating and topspeed as the GT3, which is also to heavy to be really fast.
i bet as much as i have that the CS will sent the GT3 through the roof.
hope the EVO showdown will take place very soon
best, floren
Re: Challenge Stradale: 0-200 km/h
We'll have to wait and see, if the CS is really that much better than the GT3.
Even if you add ceramic brakes and a paddle shift like the Ferrari F1-system (which you won't get from Porsche
) for, let's say, about 16.000 Euro, the GT3 is still more than 40.000 Euro 
cheaper than a Challenge Stradale. And for that difference the CS really has to be very, very, very much better...
Not really belonging to this thread, but what do you think: isn't even the new Carrera GT the better car compared to the Enzo?
With 612 hp it should accelerate as fast as the red car and who cares about top speed?
Not to mention anything about the looks...
Even if you add ceramic brakes and a paddle shift like the Ferrari F1-system (which you won't get from Porsche
) for, let's say, about 16.000 Euro, the GT3 is still more than 40.000 Euro cheaper than a Challenge Stradale. And for that difference the CS really has to be very, very, very much better...Not really belonging to this thread, but what do you think: isn't even the new Carrera GT the better car compared to the Enzo?
With 612 hp it should accelerate as fast as the red car and who cares about top speed?
Not to mention anything about the looks...
Re: Vertical Load Increase 50%
Grant,
The new Stradale's new vertical load is 50% greater then the 360 Modena. At 200 kph, 40 kilo's has been added to the vertical load of the Stradale there-by giving the car better stability and grip in the corners but a lower overall top speed.
The big test would be to see the lap times for the Stradale and the GT3 on the big track in Germany
The new Stradale's new vertical load is 50% greater then the 360 Modena. At 200 kph, 40 kilo's has been added to the vertical load of the Stradale there-by giving the car better stability and grip in the corners but a lower overall top speed.
The big test would be to see the lap times for the Stradale and the GT3 on the big track in Germany
Re: Challenge Stradale: 0-200 km/h
i think that the carrera gt is a kind of crap. just take a look at the interior. it's distgusting! you can't compare it with the one of the enzo. as you can't compare any porsche cockpit with ferrari ones'. and i don't care much about top-speed, as i don't mind if the car is accelerating up to 60 mph in 3,4 or 3,2 secs. hey, it's not a pissing contest!
my former girlfriend used to own a boxter and a carrera convertible, and the were rubish in my opinion. plastik interiours, ugly frontbumpers and lights.
and - overall - porsches are to heavy for good performances. a matter of fact that you can read in one of the porsche sections here on our site.
and, be honest, would you really choose between a porsche and a ferrari for reasons of money? i think you should compare the CS with another car from stuttgart, as you can't compare the modena with the basic carrera, but with the turbo. for both reasons of money and performance. (ok, not topspeed - but performance in generall)
do you like the carrera gt more than the enzo? or it's look?
cheers, floren
my former girlfriend used to own a boxter and a carrera convertible, and the were rubish in my opinion. plastik interiours, ugly frontbumpers and lights.
and - overall - porsches are to heavy for good performances. a matter of fact that you can read in one of the porsche sections here on our site.
and, be honest, would you really choose between a porsche and a ferrari for reasons of money? i think you should compare the CS with another car from stuttgart, as you can't compare the modena with the basic carrera, but with the turbo. for both reasons of money and performance. (ok, not topspeed - but performance in generall)
do you like the carrera gt more than the enzo? or it's look?
cheers, floren
Re: Challenge Stradale: 0-200 km/h
Quote:
I would assume that the top speed difference is due to better areodynamics in favor of the Porsche, suprisingly, the Cx of the 360 is not brilliant.
But appart from that, yes it is impressive to see that the GT3 is so close in terms of performance whereas on the paper, the Stradale should be much better.
Looking forward to read the comparaison test, EVO mag wrote it's the first thing they'll do if they can get hold of the two cars.
In that same mag, I know he's obviously biased but Walter Rohrl said that the Stradale will have a hard job bettering the new GT3.
I would assume Mr. Rohrl knows the new GT3 pretty well
Fanch.
The GT3 has a better Cx, but optimal aerodynamic performance comes from maximizing downforce while retaining a good Cx, so if the CS makes more downforce you could have a better aerodynamic performance from it.
The lower top speed is also due to shorter gear ratios on the CS and IMO isn't so important in this type of car.
The acceleration figures are kind of weird, the one for the CS is about right at 13.9 for 0-200, if you think that talking ballpark numbers it sits between a GT2 and Turbo(talking about straight line perf. only remember...).I thought the new GT3 wouldn't be able to outperform the Turbo in a straight line, but since I remember the Turbo getting from 0-200 in roughly 14.6 it seems it can give a good battle.
There is something strange in the 1380 kgs unladen weight quoted by Porsche and in the 381 hp...I think Porsche is playing very conservative on these numbers...
As far as track times go I believe the CS should edge the GT3 with superior nimbleness, agility , grip(take a look at its tyres!!!) and a bit more acceleration.
I don't understand why Walther Roehrl says that the 360's handling is ruined by traction control: just switch it off........
Re: Challenge Stradale: 0-200 km/h
Quote:
Luigi - I couldn't tell from your post. Which of these are you saying about the GT3:
1. It has more than 381hp?
2. It weighs less than published figure (usually the opposite is true of Porsche)?
3. It isn't really capable of 0-200kph in 14.3s?
I think that the 14.3 sec time is real, since Porsche has a habit of giving very realistic perf. numbers(sometimes even overconservative).
Based on this assumption I think that the 1380 kg weight of the GT3 and the 1180 figure of the CS are not measured in the same conditions(it should be dry weight for both,but...).
I know of a properly run in(sooooo important on these cars!) 2000 GT3 that with only a modified exhaust gave 390 hp on the dyno...
Re: Challenge Stradale: 0-200 km/h
Floren,
The Enzo and CGT are very different cars in their conception, although I still think the GT will give the Enzo a hard time on the track.
Rohrl mentionned in the EVO article they managed to get hold of one in the last part of the GT development.
I think the GT is a polyvalent Enzo really, which is what Porsche is all about, they make cars you can drop your kids at school in the morning, go to the track the whole day, and then go back shopping in heavy traffic in late afternoon
Ferrari are not famous for their interior, it is a small company, and therefore although the materials are top quality, it is not as well put together than Porsche.
But I agree with you, a bit too much plastic in the Porsche IMO but that's purely marketing as you resolve that problem by ordering the large leather pack option (I know, another option)
On the whole, I think you are clearly biased and a bit harsh with Porsche, just look at the facts, an old GT3 is quicker than a 360 round the track (well, the Nordschleife at least with is kind of a benchmark)
And the cab is still a great performer, last WE, I smoked every 355s at Magny Cours and Charade, mostly thanks to breaks!
I was surprised but how poor the Ferraris were at breaking, the 575 was not a surprise (too heavy) but the 360s and 355s were, I would break miles later than them and this is a standard 996 not even on Turbo breaks, the C4S would break even later
So overall, I think Porsches and Ferraris are different, the 996 is more of a complete car whereas the 360 is more beautiful and exclusive.
But the 360 should be compared to the 996 and GT3 and not the Turbo.
Fanch.
As for GT vs Enzo interior comparaison, well, yes, if you like stripped out racing cars interior with screws showing everywhere, then the Enzo is for you, in terms of interior, I personnally prefer, leather, nubuck and a nice Bose sound system
The Enzo and CGT are very different cars in their conception, although I still think the GT will give the Enzo a hard time on the track.
Rohrl mentionned in the EVO article they managed to get hold of one in the last part of the GT development.
I think the GT is a polyvalent Enzo really, which is what Porsche is all about, they make cars you can drop your kids at school in the morning, go to the track the whole day, and then go back shopping in heavy traffic in late afternoon
Ferrari are not famous for their interior, it is a small company, and therefore although the materials are top quality, it is not as well put together than Porsche.
But I agree with you, a bit too much plastic in the Porsche IMO but that's purely marketing as you resolve that problem by ordering the large leather pack option (I know, another option
)On the whole, I think you are clearly biased and a bit harsh with Porsche, just look at the facts, an old GT3 is quicker than a 360 round the track (well, the Nordschleife at least with is kind of a benchmark)
And the cab is still a great performer, last WE, I smoked every 355s at Magny Cours and Charade, mostly thanks to breaks!
I was surprised but how poor the Ferraris were at breaking, the 575 was not a surprise (too heavy) but the 360s and 355s were, I would break miles later than them and this is a standard 996 not even on Turbo breaks, the C4S would break even later
So overall, I think Porsches and Ferraris are different, the 996 is more of a complete car whereas the 360 is more beautiful and exclusive.
But the 360 should be compared to the 996 and GT3 and not the Turbo.
Fanch.
As for GT vs Enzo interior comparaison, well, yes, if you like stripped out racing cars interior with screws showing everywhere, then the Enzo is for you, in terms of interior, I personnally prefer, leather, nubuck and a nice Bose sound system
Re: Challenge Stradale: 0-200 km/h
Quote:
Floren,
The Enzo and CGT are very different cars in their conception, although I still think the GT will give the Enzo a hard time on the track.
Rohrl mentionned in the EVO article they managed to get hold of one in the last part of the GT development.
I think the GT is a polyvalent Enzo really, which is what Porsche is all about, they make cars you can drop your kids at school in the morning, go to the track the whole day, and then go back shopping in heavy traffic in late afternoon
Ferrari are not famous for their interior, it is a small company, and therefore although the materials are top quality, it is not as well put together than Porsche.
But I agree with you, a bit too much plastic in the Porsche IMO but that's purely marketing as you resolve that problem by ordering the large leather pack option (I know, another option
On the whole, I think you are clearly biased and a bit harsh with Porsche, just look at the facts, an old GT3 is quicker than a 360 round the track (well, the Nordschleife at least with is kind of a benchmark)
And the cab is still a great performer, last WE, I smoked every 355s at Magny Cours and Charade, mostly thanks to breaks!
I was surprised but how poor the Ferraris were at breaking, the 575 was not a surprise (too heavy) but the 360s and 355s were, I would break miles later than them and this is a standard 996 not even on Turbo breaks, the C4S would break even later
So overall, I think Porsches and Ferraris are different, the 996 is more of a complete car whereas the 360 is more beautiful and exclusive.
But the 360 should be compared to the 996 and GT3 and not the Turbo.
Fanch.
As for GT vs Enzo interior comparaison, well, yes, if you like stripped out racing cars interior with screws showing everywhere, then the Enzo is for you, in terms of interior, I personnally prefer, leather, nubuck and a nice Bose sound system
François, you have to remember that at trackdays 80% of the performance is made by the driver, not the vehicle...
And most Ferrari owners drive their cars, even at the track more gently, I for instance find the braking power and efficiency of the Modena exceptionally good even compared with my GT2 with or without PCCBs.This is not true for older models though...
What do you mean by saying that the Modena should be compared to a 996 or GT3 and not the Turbo?
A Modena smokes a regular 996 with same driver (believe me) and a GT3 and Turbo offer similar track performance with an average trackday driver, so I guess I'm missing your point.
Re: Challenge Stradale: 0-200 km/h
So...for someone very green to tracking (i.e. never done it before), what's a good car to start with? My natural abilities are decent, but my only experience comes from canyon driving. I was thinking that a 996 would be a relatively tame vehicle that still keeps me engaged.
996, 360 comparaison
You're right Luigi,
Apologies, a Modena should be compared to a GT3, I mentionned 996 because it is also a NA engine, that's all, but I agree with you, the Modena is easily superior to the 996.
The turbo is different IMO, Turbo engines are trickier to handle on the track.
I think the 996 is also much easier to drive on the limit, I mean, mine is a C4, but it was a revelation to see how the car "tells you" everything it's doing, especially in terms of mass transfer on bends when you play with the throttle, you can feel the limit, oversteer understeer, Fantastic!!!
I was told by an experienced driver last week end that this is due to the rear engine layout, because there's 60% or more of the weight at the back, it's much easier to bring and feel the car at the limit.
The Modena is trickier and hence more rewarding I suppose.
As for track performance, you're right again, so much depends on the driver.
Repairs are so expensive on these cars that their owners probably don't wanna push them too much which I understand.
My 996 was driven VERY hard for more then two hours overall,
a friend brought the car to my dealer for a check this week, this is costing me about Euro 2000 (New brake pads, new brake fluid, new engine oil, nothing to do with the track but it's been 10000km since the last one and the most expensive, new rear tires )
I would assume this is even more expensive on a 360.
Oh dear, it's an expensive sport but it's so great
Fanch.
Apologies, a Modena should be compared to a GT3, I mentionned 996 because it is also a NA engine, that's all, but I agree with you, the Modena is easily superior to the 996.
The turbo is different IMO, Turbo engines are trickier to handle on the track.
I think the 996 is also much easier to drive on the limit, I mean, mine is a C4, but it was a revelation to see how the car "tells you" everything it's doing, especially in terms of mass transfer on bends when you play with the throttle, you can feel the limit, oversteer understeer, Fantastic!!!
I was told by an experienced driver last week end that this is due to the rear engine layout, because there's 60% or more of the weight at the back, it's much easier to bring and feel the car at the limit.
The Modena is trickier and hence more rewarding I suppose.
As for track performance, you're right again, so much depends on the driver.
Repairs are so expensive on these cars that their owners probably don't wanna push them too much which I understand.
My 996 was driven VERY hard for more then two hours overall,
a friend brought the car to my dealer for a check this week, this is costing me about Euro 2000
(New brake pads, new brake fluid, new engine oil, nothing to do with the track but it's been 10000km since the last one and the most expensive, new rear tires )I would assume this is even more expensive on a 360.
Oh dear, it's an expensive sport but it's so great
Fanch.
Re: 996, 360 comparaison
hey guys,
i do agree 100% with luigis opinion.
and i can understand your point, fanch, according to your cockpit and day-to-day usability. but even in a ferrari you can drop your kids at school and race around a circuit and drove it to the theater at night.
and - ok - the carrera gt has a awesome rear, also the sound is good and the engine looks quite nice. and i'm really a bit hard to porsche. i used to own a 64 carrera and think they were nice till the 996 came out. wendelin may has rescued porsche but has also killed the company in a few points. to much marketing.
we shoul compare montezemolo and wiedeking. wouldn't that be funny?
cheers, floren
i do agree 100% with luigis opinion.
and i can understand your point, fanch, according to your cockpit and day-to-day usability. but even in a ferrari you can drop your kids at school and race around a circuit and drove it to the theater at night.
and - ok - the carrera gt has a awesome rear, also the sound is good and the engine looks quite nice. and i'm really a bit hard to porsche. i used to own a 64 carrera and think they were nice till the 996 came out. wendelin may has rescued porsche but has also killed the company in a few points. to much marketing.
we shoul compare montezemolo and wiedeking. wouldn't that be funny?
cheers, floren
Re: 996, 360 comparaison
You are so right Folren,
Marketing is a bitch
But it is essential to the company's survival unfortunately especially at this moment where the world economy is not great.
But please, once the sales pick up again, give me a 320hp 1200kg Boxster RS
(should be almost as fun as GT3, 360 but much cheaper to run on the track hopefully)
Fanch.
Marketing is a bitch
But it is essential to the company's survival unfortunately especially at this moment where the world economy is not great.
But please, once the sales pick up again, give me a 320hp 1200kg Boxster RS
(should be almost as fun as GT3, 360 but much cheaper to run on the track hopefully)
Fanch.
Re: 996, 360 comparaison
sorry for the delay,
yes, marketing is the bitch. but montezemolos is a guru therein as well. but he's just better. and he knows how to link between design and marketing. that's what porsche failes in, IMO.
yesterday i bought a magazine with the new boxter on it. looks nice! with hughe air-intakes, something between the 360 and the new gallardo, which i like vey much by the way.
a friend of mine attented the official presentation and mentioned that it has been a greater pleasure to drive than i has been with the modena.
but their aerodynamic guys still can't fight those in maranello. the gallardo has a hughe wing, arriving at around 70miles/h
cheers to everyone
> floren
yes, marketing is the bitch. but montezemolos is a guru therein as well. but he's just better. and he knows how to link between design and marketing. that's what porsche failes in, IMO.
yesterday i bought a magazine with the new boxter on it. looks nice! with hughe air-intakes, something between the 360 and the new gallardo, which i like vey much by the way.
a friend of mine attented the official presentation and mentioned that it has been a greater pleasure to drive than i has been with the modena.
but their aerodynamic guys still can't fight those in maranello. the gallardo has a hughe wing, arriving at around 70miles/h
cheers to everyone
> floren
Mar 17, 2003 3:06:21 PM
- Gianmaria Traversone
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- Loc: Costa Rica
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- Reply to: floren
Re: 996, 360 comparaison
I have seen all the new cars you are talking about in the auto show. But in my opinion the most extreme and serious looking of all is defenetly the CS. Imagine that the lateral g force is 50% greater than the 360 MOdena. A car with Lounch Control , for standing starts. Ceramic brakes to stop a 1180 car ( almost as a Renoult Clio). With this data we can tell that the stradale is way more sporty than the GT3, and Gallardo.
About the Gt3 , I am not a good person to ask oppinion on the new porsches. I was in love with Porsche untill the 993 ( I ownen a 993 TT. After that the started with this nice and qiute disign [nanana] that really pissed me off. Even the exost pipe, of the 996 turbo is collapsed together , like the tachometer and the speed gauge in tha dash , which in my opinion looks very micky mouse. I always loved the rough and havy duty look of a Porshe interiors and out, but now they went to this femaile disign style wich is completly the opposite of the look they have been so famous for. Any way ,like I said , I am not the person to ask about the new Porshes ( Even the new Carrera GT , it resembles me of a bigger Toyota MR2).
About the Gallardo, it looks very nice but I am not considering it since I would be very scared to buy a car with brand new chassis and brand new engine. Maybe in 2 or 3 years...
About the stradale I am trying to post pictures but they are too big and I have no Idea how to make them smaller.
About the Gt3 , I am not a good person to ask oppinion on the new porsches. I was in love with Porsche untill the 993 ( I ownen a 993 TT. After that the started with this nice and qiute disign [nanana] that really pissed me off. Even the exost pipe, of the 996 turbo is collapsed together , like the tachometer and the speed gauge in tha dash , which in my opinion looks very micky mouse. I always loved the rough and havy duty look of a Porshe interiors and out, but now they went to this femaile disign style wich is completly the opposite of the look they have been so famous for. Any way ,like I said , I am not the person to ask about the new Porshes ( Even the new Carrera GT , it resembles me of a bigger Toyota MR2).
About the Gallardo, it looks very nice but I am not considering it since I would be very scared to buy a car with brand new chassis and brand new engine. Maybe in 2 or 3 years...
About the stradale I am trying to post pictures but they are too big and I have no Idea how to make them smaller.
Mar 17, 2003 5:51:07 PM
- floren
- Junior
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- Registered on: Mar 6, 2003
- Reply to: Gianmaria Traversone
Re: 996, 360 comparaison
thanks for your mail and your impression. i look forward to drive a CS.
and you can send your pictures to the guy of rennteam. he placed a mail with his mail adress as a reply to your last message. he mixed you up with luigi!
hope to see your pictures soon!
best, floren
and you can send your pictures to the guy of rennteam. he placed a mail with his mail adress as a reply to your last message. he mixed you up with luigi!
hope to see your pictures soon!
best, floren
Mar 17, 2003 7:06:43 PM
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Futch
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