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Re: Cayman Turbo?
Knew about (the eyes never deceive) the 260 HP one, but the turbo, that would be faster than the 997S. Does Porsche change engines after one year? Maybe that is why more 997 are being made. Use up the 3.6l engines then the 997 gets the 3.8l and the 997S a 4.0l? Based of previous pricing, the Cayman Turbo might even be more expensive than a 997S.
Re: Cayman Turbo?
You make one logical mistake: Porsche doesn't want the Cayman to be "just another" Boxster but a NEW product.
And I'm afraid that some people at Porsche also use the Cayman to make a direct "attack" on the legend 911 to see how people react and if people are willing to accept it.
The 911 top model is the 911 Turbo. A Cayman Turbo will never come even close to 911 Turbo performance but it can't be excluded that it is gonna be as fast or even faster than a 997 Carrera or even Carrera S.
The strategy seems to have changed a little bit, Porsche maybe wants to "brake free" out of the 911 "pit" to be able to launch more innovative (design-wise for example) sports cars with the long awaited (US market) V8 engine.
They tried such a strategy before (remember the 928?) but unfortunately it was the right product at the wrong time.
Personally, I think that the 997 is gonna be the last 911 to have the round shaped front lights and one reason why Porsche made the 997 a little bit "boring" (design-wise) is because maybe they wanted customers to get fed up by the classic 911 design and demand something new. I know, a lot of speculations but I honestly have the feeling that the 911 isn't really Porsche's favorite anymore because it somehow limits their possibility to expand and produce "different" products in the same class.
And I'm afraid that some people at Porsche also use the Cayman to make a direct "attack" on the legend 911 to see how people react and if people are willing to accept it.
The 911 top model is the 911 Turbo. A Cayman Turbo will never come even close to 911 Turbo performance but it can't be excluded that it is gonna be as fast or even faster than a 997 Carrera or even Carrera S.
The strategy seems to have changed a little bit, Porsche maybe wants to "brake free" out of the 911 "pit" to be able to launch more innovative (design-wise for example) sports cars with the long awaited (US market) V8 engine.
They tried such a strategy before (remember the 928?) but unfortunately it was the right product at the wrong time.
Personally, I think that the 997 is gonna be the last 911 to have the round shaped front lights and one reason why Porsche made the 997 a little bit "boring" (design-wise) is because maybe they wanted customers to get fed up by the classic 911 design and demand something new. I know, a lot of speculations but I honestly have the feeling that the 911 isn't really Porsche's favorite anymore because it somehow limits their possibility to expand and produce "different" products in the same class.
Re: Cayman Turbo?
Quote:
vtrader said:
Knew about (the eyes never deceive) the 260 HP one, but the turbo, that would be faster than the 997S. Does Porsche change engines after one year? Maybe that is why more 997 are being made. Use up the 3.6l engines then the 997 gets the 3.8l and the 997S a 4.0l? Based of previous pricing, the Cayman Turbo might even be more expensive than a 997S.
I gather from this that (my assumptions only) some people have seen both the "S" and the base versions at certain Porsche sponsered events?
I really don't know why a 260HP version (probably a hotted up 2.7L ???) would be built with a great 3.2L from the Boxster available......dumb idea again. So then the Cayman is poised below the Boxster S, but the Cayman S is above the Boxster S? That's the way it looks to me. I thought the whole Cayman line was above the Boxster, and again it makes coupes more expensive than roadsters.
I guess Porsche doesn't want the base Cayman to infringe on the Boxster S, but the Cayman S will eclipse it. Thinking about this "Porsche" logic can give you a headache really fast.
I don't really see a need for a Turbo version. It is my opinion that it would cost too much and most people would probably be in a 911 instead.
Re: Cayman Turbo?
Quote:
MikeN said:Quote:
vtrader said:
Knew about (the eyes never deceive) the 260 HP one, but the turbo, that would be faster than the 997S. Does Porsche change engines after one year? Maybe that is why more 997 are being made. Use up the 3.6l engines then the 997 gets the 3.8l and the 997S a 4.0l? Based of previous pricing, the Cayman Turbo might even be more expensive than a 997S.
I gather from this that (my assumptions only) some people have seen both the "S" and the base versions at certain Porsche sponsered events?
I really don't know why a 260HP version (probably a hotted up 2.7L ???) would be built with a great 3.2L from the Boxster available......dumb idea again. So then the Cayman is poised below the Boxster S, but the Cayman S is above the Boxster S? That's the way it looks to me. I thought the whole Cayman line was above the Boxster, and again it makes coupes more expensive than roadsters.
I guess Porsche doesn't want the base Cayman to infringe on the Boxster S, but the Cayman S will eclipse it. Thinking about this "Porsche" logic can give you a headache really fast.
I don't really see a need for a Turbo version. It is my opinion that it would cost too much and most people would probably be in a 911 instead.
Like RC said, Porsche thinks of the Cayman a new product, not just a Boxster Coupe despite the appearances.
I kind of agree with you, but I don't think Porsche sees a direct comparison between the Cayman and Boxster, from a marketing perspective of course.
What I think will be interesting is how people will chose between a Cayman Turbo and a Carrera S or not.
Mar 3, 2005 4:22:26 PM
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Ron (Houston)
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Reply to:
RC
Re: Cayman Turbo?
Quote:
RC said:
Personally, I think that the 997 is gonna be the last 911 to have the round shaped front lights and one reason why Porsche made the 997 a little bit "boring" (design-wise) is because maybe they wanted customers to get fed up by the classic 911 design and demand something new. I know, a lot of speculations but I honestly have the feeling that the 911 isn't really Porsche's favorite anymore because it somehow limits their possibility to expand and produce "different" products in the same class.
RC, your statement makes perfect sense
.I have a feeling that Porsche is and will be trying to get out 911 product line gracefully and try something radical and awesome. After all it would be wise to leave the history of the legend " 911 " with good memories.
Mar 3, 2005 5:34:35 PM
- bostonmini
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Re: Cayman Turbo?
RC, so u think the 998 will be a radical difference eh? yeah, maybe the 911 is slowly dying:( Or maybe, if they do away with the 911, the cayman is the test for a mid-engined top model..period. either way, can the wet sump block handle turbos? wouldnt they need the GT3/Turbo block for that, making price soar?
Mar 3, 2005 11:01:31 PM
- Joost
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Re: Cayman Turbo?
RC, your story sounds logical, but I do not have enough marketing experience, or experience with porsche to be able to toell truth from fairytale. My thoughts: why doesn't porsch start a daughter-company which will make a squary (gallardo-like designwise) car, which (when succesfull will be bought (the company, not the car) by Porsche? That way it wont harm porsche if unsuccesfull... Because the 911 is such a classic, that it is almost a synonym to porsche... poele will always compare those... And it will always harm the bran porsche if (on purpose) they creat a "boring"911 to make people think differently...
-Joost-
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Mar 4, 2005 4:19:37 AM
- Jeff (in SF)
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Autoweek article
They claim there will be 3 versions of the Cayman
First there will be the 3.4L Cayman S with 295hp
Then comes a Club Sport version with 305hp and less weight (didn't say how much less) deleting A/C, sound deadening, and audio system
Last comes a less powerful and less expensive Cayman with a 3.2L engine
The Cayman S prototypes have already lapped the Ring in less time than the 997's 8m 15s.
First there will be the 3.4L Cayman S with 295hp
Then comes a Club Sport version with 305hp and less weight (didn't say how much less) deleting A/C, sound deadening, and audio system
Last comes a less powerful and less expensive Cayman with a 3.2L engine
The Cayman S prototypes have already lapped the Ring in less time than the 997's 8m 15s.
Re: Cayman Turbo?
Quote:
RC said:
You make one logical mistake: Porsche doesn't want the Cayman to be "just another" Boxster but a NEW product.
And I'm afraid that some people at Porsche also use the Cayman to make a direct "attack" on the legend 911 to see how people react and if people are willing to accept it.
The 911 top model is the 911 Turbo. A Cayman Turbo will never come even close to 911 Turbo performance but it can't be excluded that it is gonna be as fast or even faster than a 997 Carrera or even Carrera S.
The strategy seems to have changed a little bit, Porsche maybe wants to "brake free" out of the 911 "pit" to be able to launch more innovative (design-wise for example) sports cars with the long awaited (US market) V8 engine.
They tried such a strategy before (remember the 928?) but unfortunately it was the right product at the wrong time.
Personally, I think that the 997 is gonna be the last 911 to have the round shaped front lights and one reason why Porsche made the 997 a little bit "boring" (design-wise) is because maybe they wanted customers to get fed up by the classic 911 design and demand something new. I know, a lot of speculations but I honestly have the feeling that the 911 isn't really Porsche's favorite anymore because it somehow limits their possibility to expand and produce "different" products in the same class.
Let me translate
The Cayman might be a "bridge product" to future models that will replace the 911 as the company flagship model.
OTOH .... I doubt they will ever stop producing something that resembles a 911, there.s simply too much profit to still get out of its shape.
Mar 4, 2005 2:42:32 PM
- AS4s
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Re: Autoweek article
If they want the Cayman to be a NEW product and even think about a Turbo version, I guess the idea of a Cayman Cabrio might be possible right??? 
I know that's a Boxster but would Porsche forgo the income such a car could generate? Maybe could have a different top, than the Boxster. Any comments? 
I know that's a Boxster but would Porsche forgo the income such a car could generate? Maybe could have a different top, than the Boxster. Any comments?
Re: Autoweek article
Quote:
senra said:
If they want the Cayman to be a NEW product and even think about a Turbo version, I guess the idea of a Cayman Cabrio might be possible right???
I don't see the sense in differentiating two roadsters, but crazier things have happened...
Re: Cayman Turbo?
To my knowledge just about every magazine that reviewed the 997 loved the car but implied that the configuration needed change. The 911 is handcuffing the Porsche engineers and designers.
Also, I have no doubt many of the younger generation are ready for an updated Porsche which gives them great engineering, performance and fresh contemporary styling. Who wants to spend over $100,000 for a new car that looks like it is over 10 years old?
Re: Cayman Turbo?
Quote:
nberry said:
The 911 is handcuffing the Porsche engineers and designers.
I agree with this statement but I still think that the 997 is a great product. What I am actually missing on the 997 is PERFECTION. If Porsche wanted to produce the perfect 911 after the mistakes they made with the 996 at the beginning, they could have easily done it. But they didn't. So the question is: why? My speculation: they want to slowly let the "classic" 911 die.
I don't think that Porsche wants to replace the 911 with the Cayman. I just think that the Cayman is a first attempt to gently "kill" the 911 legend and to show people that they can expect more from Porsche than the 911 as THE Porsche sportscar.
This can be a good idea but it can also backfire.
In my opinion, the best strategy would be to keep the 911 legend alive but at the same time reduce production numbers to make the 911 THE exclusive Porsche model and still a living legend. The production numbers of the other Porsche models (Boxster, Cayman, Cayenne and Panamera) aren't that important, they can rise as high as they want to.
Re: Cayman Turbo?
Quote:
nberry said:Who wants to spend over $100,000 for a new car that looks like it is over 10 years old?
Now that is a strictly personal question, and you know there are plenty of people who will... how about a true Carrera RS 2.7? A 1948 356? Or God willing a ferrari classic... The fact of the matter is that the 997 does not look old. It takes design elements from classic cars, but in no way does it look old. Or are you one of those people that thinks that only something with edges can be modern, like the gallardo or so?
End of the story; I dont like ferrari's, and you dont seem to like porsches... want to be friends?
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Mar 5, 2005 11:20:14 PM
- vtrader
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Mar 6, 2005 1:23:07 AM
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Mar 6, 2005 9:35:51 PM
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Re: Autoweek article
Well I think that Porsche is trying to expand their horizons and make this new model a different alternantive to the 911....
That said, It is an ugly car for one and their will be plenty of room for it as alot of people will still want the 2+2 option....
I think we will be seeing alot more variations coming out of Porsche in the next 3-5 years. All this new money and pfrofit has to go towards expansion of the brand and the product line!
That said, It is an ugly car for one and their will be plenty of room for it as alot of people will still want the 2+2 option....
I think we will be seeing alot more variations coming out of Porsche in the next 3-5 years. All this new money and pfrofit has to go towards expansion of the brand and the product line!
Re: Autoweek article
Just bringing back this thread.....
Why don't they just make the 911 mid engine. I believe that people who understand sports cars and love the 911 will eventually get used to it and start to appreciate the midengine configurations. If they made it something like Dr. Phil(member)'s stretch RS that he drew up, it would be an awsome looking car. They could blend the lights of the 997or 993 and many other elements witha carrera gt'ish kinda a body though short and use flat sixes and flat eights for th low gravity. Would it really bother any of you guys if the engine wasn't in the back anymore.
It does seem obvious that something very wierd is going on in porsche because the cayman positioning if wierd. It doesn't really make sense. If porsche wants to show another alternative, I think its essential that they put in a very high performance car like a turbo cayman or "GT4 cayman". My dad who loves his 993 turbo would go for the cayman over 997s for its better performance in that instance(Although hes not a die hard 911 fan specifically) I think he like his 928 more. THere are probably ways that porsche can introduce turbo cayman or whatever without getting rid of all reasons to get a 911. Just some confusing thoughts for you guys to figure out....let me know that you think of any of it and if I know what I'm even talking about.
Why don't they just make the 911 mid engine. I believe that people who understand sports cars and love the 911 will eventually get used to it and start to appreciate the midengine configurations. If they made it something like Dr. Phil(member)'s stretch RS that he drew up, it would be an awsome looking car. They could blend the lights of the 997or 993 and many other elements witha carrera gt'ish kinda a body though short and use flat sixes and flat eights for th low gravity. Would it really bother any of you guys if the engine wasn't in the back anymore.
It does seem obvious that something very wierd is going on in porsche because the cayman positioning if wierd. It doesn't really make sense. If porsche wants to show another alternative, I think its essential that they put in a very high performance car like a turbo cayman or "GT4 cayman". My dad who loves his 993 turbo would go for the cayman over 997s for its better performance in that instance(Although hes not a die hard 911 fan specifically) I think he like his 928 more. THere are probably ways that porsche can introduce turbo cayman or whatever without getting rid of all reasons to get a 911. Just some confusing thoughts for you guys to figure out....let me know that you think of any of it and if I know what I'm even talking about.
Apr 13, 2005 5:58:39 AM
- SoCal Alan
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Re: Autoweek article
I'd say the only thing that's sure here is that the 997 carrera in base spec (320hp) doesnt really make sense anymore. except for the desperate housewives (sorry watched that yesterday!) that need space in the back for the kids in their convertible.
I would not be willing to swap my 996 tt for a 997s due weak performance, but i would certainly take a look at a cayman turbo or RS if the power to weight ratio is good and the price reasonable (i.e.90' vs the 140' of a 997 tt)
I would not be willing to swap my 996 tt for a 997s due weak performance, but i would certainly take a look at a cayman turbo or RS if the power to weight ratio is good and the price reasonable (i.e.90' vs the 140' of a 997 tt)
Apr 14, 2005 11:20:58 AM
- Holminator
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RC
Apr 14, 2005 11:24:58 AM
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RC
Re: Cayman Turbo?
Quote:
RC said:
You make one logical mistake: Porsche doesn't want the Cayman to be "just another" Boxster but a NEW product.
And I'm afraid that some people at Porsche also use the Cayman to make a direct "attack" on the legend 911 to see how people react and if people are willing to accept it.
The 911 top model is the 911 Turbo. A Cayman Turbo will never come even close to 911 Turbo performance but it can't be excluded that it is gonna be as fast or even faster than a 997 Carrera or even Carrera S.
The strategy seems to have changed a little bit, Porsche maybe wants to "brake free" out of the 911 "pit" to be able to launch more innovative (design-wise for example) sports cars with the long awaited (US market) V8 engine.
They tried such a strategy before (remember the 928?) but unfortunately it was the right product at the wrong time.
Personally, I think that the 997 is gonna be the last 911 to have the round shaped front lights and one reason why Porsche made the 997 a little bit "boring" (design-wise) is because maybe they wanted customers to get fed up by the classic 911 design and demand something new. I know, a lot of speculations but I honestly have the feeling that the 911 isn't really Porsche's favorite anymore because it somehow limits their possibility to expand and produce "different" products in the same class.
This is good news RC! I love my car, but I think Porsche can do better than this. Mid-engine cars are superior to all other layouts in terms of balance in the turns. The laws of physics are the laws of physics. Thanks for the insight on the division of opinion at Porsche!!!
Apr 14, 2005 1:04:51 PM
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RC
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Re: Cayman Turbo?
I think there is a huge segment that wants a performance car that's almost a 2 seater, but still has little seats for the kids. They also want something different with the engine not in the front. Mid or rear engine placement obviously has great benefits for the traction of a rear wheel drive car, but it also allows the styling to be more exoitic and sporty looking than a front engine car. If you have little rear seats a mid engine won't do. So the 911 is the PERFECT solution for this market segment (which again is big, I think, since so many want a hard core performance car, but the little seats help convince the wife).
The only problem is that this design has had to pull double duty. Both as a solution to the above, and as Porsche's race car in GT racing. There is no reason to kill or phase out the 911. Just let it continue to do what it does best and race a Cayman and make the GT3/GT2 models Cayman based. The Cayman is already very 911 like so Porsche will have the ultimate choice for their customers. "Would you like your 911 rear engined or mid-engined?" The choice would be similar to the one people already make between a GT3 and a Carrera S. However now the GT3 Cayman wouldn't have a share as much with the 911 so engineers are more free to go wild on the thing.
The only problem is that this design has had to pull double duty. Both as a solution to the above, and as Porsche's race car in GT racing. There is no reason to kill or phase out the 911. Just let it continue to do what it does best and race a Cayman and make the GT3/GT2 models Cayman based. The Cayman is already very 911 like so Porsche will have the ultimate choice for their customers. "Would you like your 911 rear engined or mid-engined?" The choice would be similar to the one people already make between a GT3 and a Carrera S. However now the GT3 Cayman wouldn't have a share as much with the 911 so engineers are more free to go wild on the thing.
Re: Autoweek article
The one thing I don't understand about the Cayman is: why would people want a Cayman S and not a Boxster S with the possibility to open the top?
Is the Cayman S much lighter than the Boxster S? I doubt it.
Is it more powerful? Well, 15 HP more isn't really a significant upgrade.
Is it faster on the track? The Boxster S is already a very refined car, I don't see much room for improvement.
So why the Cayman? Honestly, I don't know.
Is the Cayman S much lighter than the Boxster S? I doubt it.
Is it more powerful? Well, 15 HP more isn't really a significant upgrade.
Is it faster on the track? The Boxster S is already a very refined car, I don't see much room for improvement.
So why the Cayman? Honestly, I don't know.
Re: Autoweek article
Marketing 101 - KISS.
KISS: Keep It Simple Stupid.
how many types of 911 are we offered ?
Let me see, carrera, carrera s,carrera 4, carrera 4s, turbo, turbo s, gt2, gt3, carrera convertible, carrera s convertible, carrera 4 convertible, carrera 4s convertible, turbo convertible, turbo s convertible, targa.
Talk about milking a product.
I have no doubt there will new products for the cayenne that will be released just to keep pushing sales...
Lets see about the cayman, who wants to bet that there won't be a cayman turbo S? But I do doubt that there will be a convertible, there's the boxter for that.
But what about a golden year anniversary cayman convertible turbo RS?
KISS: Keep It Simple Stupid.
how many types of 911 are we offered ?
Let me see, carrera, carrera s,carrera 4, carrera 4s, turbo, turbo s, gt2, gt3, carrera convertible, carrera s convertible, carrera 4 convertible, carrera 4s convertible, turbo convertible, turbo s convertible, targa.
Talk about milking a product.
I have no doubt there will new products for the cayenne that will be released just to keep pushing sales...
Lets see about the cayman, who wants to bet that there won't be a cayman turbo S? But I do doubt that there will be a convertible, there's the boxter for that.
But what about a golden year anniversary cayman convertible turbo RS?
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