Rennteam 2.0 – DE - Forum - Clarification - Page1

17.02.2005 20:32:43

BD 997: Veteran; Loc: Boston, MA USA; Beiträge: 833, Gallery; Registriert: 16.02.2005

Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georgia

I thought I might throw this out there just for arguements sake...since I own a 997 and thinks it wide compared to the 996...and love the way it looks from the day I saw it in the showroom...I look at those pics of the so called "wide body" and I see it is a wider and nicer than a normal body 997 and part of me does not want to beleive its a wide body...due to the fact that the only reason I bought the 997 was due to the fact that it went back to the "993 look" slim front to wide rear...now I see this new 997 with a wider rear and looks better and I think we 997 owners just dont want to accept it... Porsche let us all to beleive that since the new 997 was wider they C4 and C4S would be same body as 997 just AWD...and we all hoped just the turbo would be of course wider in a couple years when it came out...i dont know...what you guys think?

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17.02.2005 20:56:20

Holminator: Veteran; Loc: USA , Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika; Beiträge: 1041, Gallery; Registriert: 28.09.2004; Antwort auf: BD 997

Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georgia

That's not it. I just don't believe the first 997 C4 would show up at a dealership in Georgia, sit out in the open overnight, and have no covering of any kind when PAG has not released the vehicle to the public. Still it was fun to go back and forth on the issue, with bravado and comradery.

I don't buy into the psychological stuff for this one, my friend.

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17.02.2005 21:06:35

BD 997: Veteran; Loc: Boston, MA USA; Beiträge: 833, Gallery; Registriert: 16.02.2005; Antwort auf: Holminator

Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georgia

was a good post...I agree

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17.02.2005 21:14:32

Jean: Veteran; Loc: Seoul , Südkorea; Beiträge: 1033, Gallery; Registriert: 14.04.2002; Antwort auf: Holminator

Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georgia

Quote:
Holminator said:
That's not it. I just don't believe the first 997 C4 would show up at a dealership in Georgia, sit out in the open overnight, and have no covering of any kind when PAG has not released the vehicle to the public.

If I remember correctly the entrouge of Carrera GTs spotted in Nevada during US testing had Georgia plates as well. Maybe there is some significance to this that we cannot recognize at the moment.

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17.02.2005 21:20:54

PS CA: Veteran; Loc: California , Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika; Beiträge: 833, Gallery; Registriert: 13.11.2003; Antwort auf: Jean

Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georgia

Quote:
Jean said:

If I remember correctly the entrouge of Carrera GTs spotted in Nevada during US testing had Georgia plates as well. Maybe there is some significance to this that we cannot recognize at the moment.

They all have Georgia plates because Porsche Cars of North America is headquartered there. Also, the pictures of the widebody that everyone is talking about were taken in Washington, not Georgia.

Phil

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17.02.2005 21:31:52

JP66: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Seattle , Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika; Beiträge: 2217, Gallery; Registriert: 10.07.2003; Antwort auf: Jean

Clarification

Ok, I just went to the dealer that has the "Georgia" car. It's not in Georgia, it's in Bellevue, WA (Barrier Porsche). When I got there about 30 minutes ago, the car was not outside. I know the sales guys there so they took me back to the service area and it was being "serviced" buy two German techs. As soon as I was in that area, the two guys would constantly stare at me. They had the left muffler and wheels off. The car was darker blue. I wasn't able to take pics, but the car was DEFINATELY wider. Even a tad wider than my C4S. I couldn't really stay back there to long due to the German mechanics, trying to hide the car by standing around it and constantly staring at me. If I get another chace to take pics another day I will.

Jeff

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17.02.2005 21:51:20

BD 997: Veteran; Loc: Boston, MA USA; Beiträge: 833, Gallery; Registriert: 16.02.2005; Antwort auf: JP66

Re: Clarification

nice...keep up the good work...we should have you on the clock for your work.... :-)

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17.02.2005 22:54:01

Joost: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Dordrecht , Niederlande; Beiträge: 8055, Gallery; Registriert: 03.05.2004; Antwort auf: BD 997

Re: Clarification

That is good news, cross-referencing!

Holminator; I think that they would just have taken the guess that nobody could tell the diff between a norma 997 and a 997 widebody... Truth is sometimes way crazier than imagination

-Joost-

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17.02.2005 23:40:10

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Dänemark; Beiträge: 5884, Gallery; Registriert: 30.11.2004; Antwort auf: Joost

Scientific proof

Seems like you all need the Big Doc Piddy to straighten things out.
Made a super spaceage scientific test of the problem at hand, and here is the result:
The car on the alledged spy photo is NO wider nor narrower than any normal 997. The only thing strange about the car IMO is the rear wiper. AFAIK there is no wiper on the 997?

Anyways, check these two photos.
I measured each car using a matrix grid.
Top one is UPO (unidentified parked object) the one below a mortal 997.

As you can see (beyond any reasonable doubt) the lines one the 997 are perfectly congruent with the lines of the UPO.
The spy photo is taken slightly from above, hence the mirrors' "high" position compared to the 997 pic.
I have also compensated for the wide angle lens used on the UPO.
(Using spherize in Photoshop, making it less bloated)

Quad erat demostrandum: The UPO is a normal 997 as far as body width is concerned.
And now we can all get on with your lives again

Doc Piddy

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17.02.2005 23:54:59

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika; Beiträge: 8633, Gallery; Registriert: 25.07.2004; Antwort auf: Dr. Phil

Re: Scientific proof

997's have optional rear wiper (FWIW a Porsche first long ago)

That pic is taken of 997 in Barrier Porsche lot facing Barrier Benz store across the street. Porsche, if they did take a Cayman test car to Barrier, must have been way desperate as they have a way bad reputation! Barrier Porsche is so Funkadelic that customer cars arent even kept behind a fence at nite and the service lot is near ski slope like.

I'll spare you the story about Jimmy Barrier and my friends Rolls Royce that was lemon law'd back to Jolly Olde England. Except for a few staff there, any Barrier dealership is the last place i'd ever buy a car or take
a drink of water.

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17.02.2005 23:57:55

ELUSIVE: Junior; Loc: Denver, CO; Beiträge: 98, Gallery; Registriert: 20.09.2004; Antwort auf: Dr. Phil

Re: Scientific proof

Pretty nice DrPhil....but how do you explain this picture?

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18.02.2005 00:13:50

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Dänemark; Beiträge: 5884, Gallery; Registriert: 30.11.2004; Antwort auf: ELUSIVE

Re: Scientific proof

Quote:
ELUSIVE said:
Pretty nice DrPhil....but how do you explain this picture?

Same thing.
Here we have two pics.
Notice the slight difference in angles?
Notice the width of the side windows...one is narrower than the other, proving that the cars (if it is two cars and not just the same) have been photographed at different angles. (The further you move to the side, the more of the side window you can see, right?)
Only slightly different angles, but enough to make one car's rear look wider than the other's.
I'm 99% sure it isn't wider at all.

I bet you could take pics of your own car and make it look anything from slender to butch.
It's all about the angles and lenses.

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18.02.2005 00:40:17

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Dänemark; Beiträge: 5884, Gallery; Registriert: 30.11.2004; Antwort auf: Dr. Phil

Re: Scientific proof

check the test I made here.
Green circles show corresponding points, red circles show corresponding points etc.

Same thing. All about angle. In fact, the 997 on the factory picture (taken from above) looks wider than the spy shot "widebody".

IMO this is just either some outta job spy-photographer at large or someone hoping too much to catch a glimpse of a new 997 Turbo.

But I may be wrong....(just kidding)

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18.02.2005 01:18:43

BD 997: Veteran; Loc: Boston, MA USA; Beiträge: 833, Gallery; Registriert: 16.02.2005; Antwort auf: Dr. Phil

Re: Scientific proof

thanks DOC...i can sleep now... :-)

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18.02.2005 01:24:57

Holminator: Veteran; Loc: USA , Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika; Beiträge: 1041, Gallery; Registriert: 28.09.2004; Antwort auf: JP66

Re: Clarification

Quote:
JP66 said:
Ok, I just went to the dealer that has the "Georgia" car. It's not in Georgia, it's in Bellevue, WA (Barrier Porsche). When I got there about 30 minutes ago, the car was not outside. I know the sales guys there so they took me back to the service area and it was being "serviced" buy two German techs. As soon as I was in that area, the two guys would constantly stare at me. They had the left muffler and wheels off. The car was darker blue. I wasn't able to take pics, but the car was DEFINATELY wider. Even a tad wider than my C4S. I couldn't really stay back there to long due to the German mechanics, trying to hide the car by standing around it and constantly staring at me. If I get another chace to take pics another day I will.

Jeff

Okay. I'm wrong.

Georgia plates in Washington; I think I missed that point earlier. It's wider.

Cool!

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18.02.2005 04:45:06

JP66: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Seattle , Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika; Beiträge: 2217, Gallery; Registriert: 10.07.2003; Antwort auf: Holminator

Re: Clarification

DR Phil,
You have not seen the car in person....enough said.

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18.02.2005 06:21:14

vtrader: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles; Beiträge: 1086, Gallery; Registriert: 06.06.2004; Antwort auf: JP66

Re: Clarification

Quote:
JP66 said:
Ok, I just went to the dealer that has the "Georgia" car. It's not in Georgia, it's in Bellevue, WA (Barrier Porsche). When I got there about 30 minutes ago, the car was not outside. I know the sales guys there so they took me back to the service area and it was being "serviced" buy two German techs. As soon as I was in that area, the two guys would constantly stare at me. They had the left muffler and wheels off. The car was darker blue. I wasn't able to take pics, but the car was DEFINATELY wider. Even a tad wider than my C4S. I couldn't really stay back there to long due to the German mechanics, trying to hide the car by standing around it and constantly staring at me. If I get another chace to take pics another day I will.

Jeff

Alright Agent JP66, I thought your mission was to stake out the car until German mechanics went to lunch, and then take your pictures. ANd if that didn't work, to create a diversion to get the job done. We are counting on you to complete the mission tomorrow.

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18.02.2005 06:32:18

JP66: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Seattle , Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika; Beiträge: 2217, Gallery; Registriert: 10.07.2003; Antwort auf: vtrader

Re: Clarification

Quote:
vtrader said:
Quote:
JP66 said:
Ok, I just went to the dealer that has the "Georgia" car. It's not in Georgia, it's in Bellevue, WA (Barrier Porsche). When I got there about 30 minutes ago, the car was not outside. I know the sales guys there so they took me back to the service area and it was being "serviced" buy two German techs. As soon as I was in that area, the two guys would constantly stare at me. They had the left muffler and wheels off. The car was darker blue. I wasn't able to take pics, but the car was DEFINATELY wider. Even a tad wider than my C4S. I couldn't really stay back there to long due to the German mechanics, trying to hide the car by standing around it and constantly staring at me. If I get another chace to take pics another day I will.

Jeff

Alright Agent JP66, I thought your mission was to stake out the car until German mechanics went to lunch, and then take your pictures. ANd if that didn't work, to create a diversion to get the job done. We are counting on you to complete the mission tomorrow.

Well, I stayed there for a while, but they were with the car for a long time, so I had to leave.
I just went by at 9pm and the car wasn't outside. You can see in the service bay at night, but the car seems to now be gone, as it wasn't in there either. They've either took off and are done at the dealer, or the car is hidden next door at Mercedes or Volvo. I'll try to check again tomorrow, but it could be all over.

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18.02.2005 07:49:51

Ray G: Newbie; Loc: Seattle, USA; Beiträge: 46, Gallery; Registriert: 16.08.2003; Antwort auf: JimFlat6

Re: Scientific proof

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
997's have optional rear wiper (FWIW a Porsche first long ago)

That pic is taken of 997 in Barrier Porsche lot facing Barrier Benz store across the street. Porsche, if they did take a Cayman test car to Barrier, must have been way desperate as they have a way bad reputation! Barrier Porsche is so Funkadelic that customer cars arent even kept behind a fence at nite and the service lot is near ski slope like.

I'll spare you the story about Jimmy Barrier and my friends Rolls Royce that was lemon law'd back to Jolly Olde England. Except for a few staff there, any Barrier dealership is the last place i'd ever buy a car or take
a drink of water.

Ouch! I've bought several cars from them and I've been happy with their business. The parking lot *is* kind of funky.

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18.02.2005 07:53:20

muhri: Pilot; Loc: Saudi Arabia , Saudi-Arabien; Beiträge: 389, Gallery; Registriert: 30.06.2003; Antwort auf: JP66

Re: Clarification

Once again, Dr.Phil - great job.

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18.02.2005 08:51:26

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Deutschland; Beiträge: 59602, Gallery; Registriert: 26.03.2002; Antwort auf: Holminator

Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georgia

I know I'll be accused again of "knowing it all" and it will again deliver arguments for those people who try to lure people to other forums by telling them that RC is "evil" (last time they accused me of working for PAG) or that they should join a "real" american forum because they understand the needs for US owners (I'm not kidding, it happened!).

Let me put it this way: I know 100% for sure that the car in Georgia wasn't a C4S or so called widebody. Call me arrogant, call me whatever you want but this car had the 997 body. Period. And now I'm ready for any kind of flame and for another 50 PM to people who criticize me to go to other forums where their "needs" are met.

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18.02.2005 09:49:29

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Dänemark; Beiträge: 5884, Gallery; Registriert: 30.11.2004; Antwort auf: RC

Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georgia

I dont understand the debate here.
Check the picture comparison I made, and tell me how in the world the car in the parking lot can be a widebody?

I know people say "You weren't there", but I dont have to be anywhere to do a comparison between two identical cars using photoshop, do I?

Sorry, but as you know, I'm always right.
It stinks...but it's true

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18.02.2005 09:58:06

stone: Co-Pilot; Loc: Taunton, UK; Beiträge: 216, Gallery; Registriert: 13.08.2004; Antwort auf: Dr. Phil

Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georg

No I don't think these pic's are any wider than the current 997. The rear tail lights are always larger than normal, on the widebody.

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18.02.2005 12:32:59

Holminator: Veteran; Loc: USA , Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika; Beiträge: 1041, Gallery; Registriert: 28.09.2004; Antwort auf: Holminator

Re: Clarification

Quote:
Holminator said:
Quote:
JP66 said:
Ok, I just went to the dealer that has the "Georgia" car. It's not in Georgia, it's in Bellevue, WA (Barrier Porsche). When I got there about 30 minutes ago, the car was not outside. I know the sales guys there so they took me back to the service area and it was being "serviced" buy two German techs. As soon as I was in that area, the two guys would constantly stare at me. They had the left muffler and wheels off. The car was darker blue. I wasn't able to take pics, but the car was DEFINATELY wider. Even a tad wider than my C4S. I couldn't really stay back there to long due to the German mechanics, trying to hide the car by standing around it and constantly staring at me. If I get another chace to take pics another day I will.

Jeff

Okay. I'm wrong. Georgia plates in Washington; I think I missed that point earlier. It's wider. Cool!

Now that I'm sober (too much Scotch after dinner), I withdraw my statement. The car is question is not a wide body IMHO.

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18.02.2005 13:09:16

davew (cincy): Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH , Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika; Beiträge: 1164, Gallery; Registriert: 10.05.2004; Antwort auf: BD 997

Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georgia

Thank you Dr. Phil. I agree that this is not a wide body - although nothing would peak my interest more. The board posting rate shows that I'm not the only one thinking about this daily...

One thing I'm sure all of you know is that the closer you stand to a subject, the wider lens setting you have to use, and the more magnified closer objects (or surfaces) appear relative to those more distant. So try to ignore the relative location of the side view mirrors as they pertain to the rear end - that will only through you off. I think that is what is happening to everyone here.

Here's an old pic of a camouflaged 997 turbo for comparison. I can only imagine that old history will hold that any wide body will be dimensionally similar to the turbo. I will add that if I were in charge, I'd keep the wide body on the turbo only - to differentiate it, and because that is where the dimensions are really needed.

Please note that this pic was obviously taken further away than the new pics in question (Washington), so some "wideness" is lost in it - but you can see that the rear end, in general looks notably different. One thing that catches my eye is the location of the exhaust tips relative to the license plate indentation. Of course that may be only on the turbo....

If the gentleman who took the original pictures would take another - of the 997S - with the same camera and settings, and at the same distance - we'd see conclusively.

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18.02.2005 14:55:58

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spanien; Beiträge: 21155, Gallery; Registriert: 09.02.2003; Antwort auf: davew (cincy)

Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georg

Now that shows a widebody. Good idea davew digging up a 997TT spy pic

Best way to tell between widebodies and narrowbodies IMO is to look at the horizontal distance from the lateral edged rear lights to the outer edge of the wheel arches (though in this 997TT the rear lights are still camouflaged and have the edges covered a bit but you can guess were the edges of the ligts are judging from the normal 997's). The rear lights are in the same place regardless but the outer fender is were the car is mainly widened.

My personal opinion is that either the 997 w/ Georgia plates is just a regular 997 and its the effect of the lens, like Dr.Phill pointed out, or that its a very slightly wider 997 test mule for somtehing, but not widebody aka turbo-look.
Also the exhuasts on the 997TT are higher up (integrated into the fender type of height) and wider apart as well, so this Georgia 997's exhuasts would not fit into this turbo's bumper and the widebody carreras should share the Turbo bumper if they folow the 996.

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18.02.2005 15:24:04

PS CA: Veteran; Loc: California , Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika; Beiträge: 833, Gallery; Registriert: 13.11.2003; Antwort auf: Dr. Phil

DrPhil why don't you compare Tubo shot

Why don't you work your photoshop magic on the spy photo of the turbo? Compare that photo with a photo of a standard 997 and see what you get. If you use the same method you did for your previous comparison and the turbo is obviously wider then it will support the conclusion that the car in Washington with Georgia plates is not a wide body.

Phil

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18.02.2005 15:28:03

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika; Beiträge: 8812, Gallery; Registriert: 10.04.2002; Antwort auf: RC

Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georgia

So RC, you are working for PAG, right?

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18.02.2005 16:06:44

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika; Beiträge: 2028, Gallery; Registriert: 27.01.2005; Antwort auf: Ron (Houston)

Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georgia

If the car in the parking lot with the GA plates WAS a widebody, then why does the photographer always seem to take these cryptic "hard-to-tell" shots of the car??? Seems to me that if he just stood out in front of the car, and did a good 3/4 angle from the front, then it would stand out like a sore thumb. Instead, we get these photos that are no more convincing than the McDonalds french fry that looks like Abe Lincoln.

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19.02.2005 16:02:15

vtrader: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles; Beiträge: 1086, Gallery; Registriert: 06.06.2004; Antwort auf: 69bossnine

Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georgia

Quote:
69bossnine said:
...Instead, we get these photos that are no more convincing than the McDonalds french fry that looks like Abe Lincoln.

Didn't it sell on Ebay and make alot of money and did it not make a good superbowl commercial?

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Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georgia

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Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georgia

Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georgia

Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georgia

Clarification

Re: Clarification

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Scientific proof

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Re: Scientific proof

Re: Scientific proof

Re: Scientific proof

Re: Clarification

Re: Clarification

Re: Clarification

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Re: Scientific proof

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Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georgia

Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georgia

Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georg

Re: Clarification

Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georgia

Re: Lets talk more about this Wide Body C4S spotted in Georg

DrPhil why don't you compare Tubo shot

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