Crown

Quote:
cannga said:

I have wanted a 911 for a long time, now that I could afford it, it is somewhat disappointing to find out about this problem. I am new to this board and don't mean to start a flame war at all, so please refrain/be gentle , and please don't tell me "Just buy the car and enjoy and return it at the end of the lease." I would like to keep the car for more than 4 years. Above all, I would like to have a sense of how common this is. To me, even 10% is too high, let alone 25%...

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cannga said:
Hi,
I am considering the 911, have done as much reading/research as I could, and am a little worried about these reports of RMS problem, engine blow up, etc.
On the one hand, I recalled reading some poll (I am NOT sure) where someone mentioned a 25% RMS problem with Boxter.
On the other hand, I have friends with Boxter/911, etc., and none seems to have the problem metioned.
So:
1. If I plan to keep the 911 for more than 4 years, does Porsche offer extended warranty? If so what is the cost and would it cover RMS/engine blowup?
2. It seems *IMPOSSIBLE* to me that the problem could be that prevalent (25%) and for the Press (as unreliable as they might be) to not mention anything about it. So, those in the know, what is your opinion please of the percentage of this problem? Does it seem more prevalent because those affected are, for good reasons, very upset and (no offense inteded) vocal.
I have wanted a 911 for a long time, now that I could afford it, it is somewhat disappointing to find out about this problem. I am new to this board and don't mean to start a flame war at all, so please refrain/be gentle , and please don't tell me "Just buy the car and enjoy and return it at the end of the lease." I would like to keep the car for more than 4 years. Above all, I would like to have a sense of how common this is. To me, even 10% is too high, let alone 25%.
Thanks and regards,
Can
P.S. Cross posting to another forum that I read. No harm intended.

Quote:
cannga said:
Hi,
I am considering the 911, have done as much reading/research as I could, and am a little worried about these reports of RMS problem, engine blow up, etc.
On the one hand, I recalled reading some poll (I am NOT sure) where someone mentioned a 25% RMS problem with Boxter.
On the other hand, I have friends with Boxter/911, etc., and none seems to have the problem metioned.
So:
1. If I plan to keep the 911 for more than 4 years, does Porsche offer extended warranty? If so what is the cost and would it cover RMS/engine blowup?
2. It seems *IMPOSSIBLE* to me that the problem could be that prevalent (25%) and for the Press (as unreliable as they might be) to not mention anything about it. So, those in the know, what is your opinion please of the percentage of this problem? Does it seem more prevalent because those affected are, for good reasons, very upset and (no offense inteded) vocal.
I have wanted a 911 for a long time, now that I could afford it, it is somewhat disappointing to find out about this problem. I am new to this board and don't mean to start a flame war at all, so please refrain/be gentle , and please don't tell me "Just buy the car and enjoy and return it at the end of the lease." I would like to keep the car for more than 4 years. Above all, I would like to have a sense of how common this is. To me, even 10% is too high, let alone 25%.
Thanks and regards,
Can
P.S. Cross posting to another forum that I read. No harm intended.

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ben, lj said:

yes, it is that common. it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn it was in excess of 25% (plus many cars recieve multiple RMS replacements during their lifetime) - internet polls would suggest significantly higher. the 996/7s (GT2, 3s and turbos excepted) just aren't built to the same overtolerances the 993s and before were and are probably good candidates for trade in before the warranty runs out (be it factory or extended).

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MrBonus said:

Quote:
ben, lj said:

yes, it is that common. it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn it was in excess of 25% (plus many cars recieve multiple RMS replacements during their lifetime) - internet polls would suggest significantly higher. the 996/7s (GT2, 3s and turbos excepted) just aren't built to the same overtolerances the 993s and before were and are probably good candidates for trade in before the warranty runs out (be it factory or extended).

Have you ever thought that those polls were so high because people who actually had RMS issues were far more likely to reply?

I think more solid evidence would be need other than select Internet whiners.

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MrBonus said:

Quote:
ben, lj said:

yes, it is that common. it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn it was in excess of 25% (plus many cars recieve multiple RMS replacements during their lifetime) - internet polls would suggest significantly higher. the 996/7s (GT2, 3s and turbos excepted) just aren't built to the same overtolerances the 993s and before were and are probably good candidates for trade in before the warranty runs out (be it factory or extended).

Have you ever thought that those polls were so high because people who actually had RMS issues were far more likely to reply?

I think more solid evidence would be need other than select Internet whiners.

Quote:
ben, lj said:

Quote:
MrBonus said:

Quote:
ben, lj said:

yes, it is that common. it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn it was in excess of 25% (plus many cars recieve multiple RMS replacements during their lifetime) - internet polls would suggest significantly higher. the 996/7s (GT2, 3s and turbos excepted) just aren't built to the same overtolerances the 993s and before were and are probably good candidates for trade in before the warranty runs out (be it factory or extended).

Have you ever thought that those polls were so high because people who actually had RMS issues were far more likely to reply?

I think more solid evidence would be need other than select Internet whiners.

No, I've found the Porsche diehards (ie: those that deem people "whiners" when if they share real life experiences which are not positive) are extremely quick to "defend" the brand (at any cost - sometimes at the expense of the truth) and will definetely participate in the polls to help refute any evidence that 99X (non TT, GT3 or GT2s) are not up to the quality we've come to expect from Porsche. It might surprise you to know I've actually seen people on this site in their attempt to "defend the brand" claim not to have specific problems only to find older posts where these very people did in fact "whine" about experiencing the VERY same problem about which they later denied experiencing. It's wild!

Another thing you need to remember about those polls is many of the respondents have not YET had an RMS failure but WILL. So I suspect the real numbers are every bit as high as the poll suggests if not higher when some of those who voted "no problem" join the club. Many people have such low self-esteem that they have to resort to getting it from the things they buy. They then see anything negative about their "choice" as a direct hit to their self-esteem. It's sad, but unfortunately there are those that fit this bill. So look out for the "defenders" because they are more dangerous when it comes to the truth than the "whiners" who are sharing real life experiences.

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ben, lj said:

No, I've found the Porsche diehards (ie: those that deem people "whiners" when if they share real life experiences which are not positive) are extremely quick to "defend" the brand (at any cost - sometimes at the expense of the truth) and will definetely participate in the polls to help refute any evidence that 99X (non TT, GT3 or GT2s) are not up to the quality we've come to expect from Porsche. It might surprise you to know I've actually seen people on this site in their attempt to "defend the brand" claim not to have specific problems only to find older posts where these very people did in fact "whine" about experiencing the VERY same problem about which they later denied experiencing. It's wild!

Another thing you need to remember about those polls is many of the respondents have not YET had an RMS failure but WILL. So I suspect the real numbers are every bit as high as the poll suggests if not higher when some of those who voted "no problem" join the club. Many people have such low self-esteem that they have to resort to getting it from the things they buy. They then see anything negative about their "choice" as a direct hit to their self-esteem. It's sad, but unfortunately there are those that fit this bill. So look out for the "defenders" because they are more dangerous when it comes to the truth than the "whiners" who are sharing real life experiences.

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MrBonus said:

Quote:
ben, lj said:

No, I've found the Porsche diehards (ie: those that deem people "whiners" when if they share real life experiences which are not positive) are extremely quick to "defend" the brand (at any cost - sometimes at the expense of the truth) and will definetely participate in the polls to help refute any evidence that 99X (non TT, GT3 or GT2s) are not up to the quality we've come to expect from Porsche. It might surprise you to know I've actually seen people on this site in their attempt to "defend the brand" claim not to have specific problems only to find older posts where these very people did in fact "whine" about experiencing the VERY same problem about which they later denied experiencing. It's wild!

Another thing you need to remember about those polls is many of the respondents have not YET had an RMS failure but WILL. So I suspect the real numbers are every bit as high as the poll suggests if not higher when some of those who voted "no problem" join the club. Many people have such low self-esteem that they have to resort to getting it from the things they buy. They then see anything negative about their "choice" as a direct hit to their self-esteem. It's sad, but unfortunately there are those that fit this bill. So look out for the "defenders" because they are more dangerous when it comes to the truth than the "whiners" who are sharing real life experiences.

So you've formulated an opinion based on anecdotal evidence and presented it as fact about a claimed issue with the M96-equipped 911.

I'm not denying that there is a problem but you manage to badmouth the cars repeatedly without quoting anything other than Internet statistics gathered in an uncontrolled environment.

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Carlos from Spain said:
Just his observation, there have been reports of RMS leaks on Tips as well, but who knows if in the same proportion as manuals.

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ben, lj said:

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Carlos from Spain said:
Just his observation, there have been reports of RMS leaks on Tips as well, but who knows if in the same proportion as manuals.

true, and tips are much less common so you'd expect to see it less ofte in tips but like you suggested probably not less as a % of tips made vs. % of sticks made.

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cannga said:
Hello Ben/Carlos,
(Pardon me if this has been discussed with the 996 series.)
Has there ever been any evidence linking RMS to an "aggressive" style of driving? If so, that would explain why the rate of failure is so high in a forum of enthusiasts, and possibly low with Step, and possibly low with 911 (versus 911S)?
I am closer and closer to getting one, but a lease it would be. And perhaps keep the car post lease if there is no leak!
Thanks and regards,
Can

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ben, lj said:

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Carlos from Spain said:
Just his observation, there have been reports of RMS leaks on Tips as well, but who knows if in the same proportion as manuals.

true, and tips are much less common so you'd expect to see it less ofte in tips but like you suggested probably not less as a % of tips made vs. % of sticks made.

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RC said:
ben, sorry to say that but you're talking BS. I watched your posts for a long time now and all you do is criticizing, bragging and whining.
In my opinion, you're better off with a Lexus or Ford (they offer excellent customer service for their F150 trucks, right? ).

The RMS issue is NOT a common thing on the 997. In fact, to my knowledge, there hasn't been one single CONFIRMED RMS issue yet on the 997. If I would trust what dealers or mechanics say, I would have ended up driving a...Lexus.

I know many many 997 in customer hands and up til now there is no "issue" like for example the throttle hesitation on the Cayenne Turbo (which is annoying but not really something people have to worry about).
I know of several 997 which had their clutch exchanged, maybe due to the fact that some of them were dealer demo cars which went to customers.
There is no perfect car, among 1000 cars there can always be one with a broken engine or electronics problems.
So far, my 997 Carrera S has been trouble free and unlikely others, I was driving this car in deep winter time and under almost any imaginable driving conditions. And trust me, I don't drive it like a Lexus.

The internet is a great source of information but unfortunately it is also the best source for gossip, false statements, rumours, conspiracy theories and even lies.
I don't say that the RMS thing can't happen on the 997, I just say that there is no confirmed case yet and I give a damn on what a dealer or mechanic says because in my opinion, 90% of them don't have a clue about the cars they're selling or maintaining. If would be Porsche, I would do every 6 months some sort of EXAMS to test my mechanics and dealers if they actually ever read the information they get from the factory. Sounds crazy? We're talking about products which could put life in danger, a doctor also has to read his specialty magazines to be able to learn the latest information about methods and drugs. I expect the same from the guys who take care of my 180 mph toy.

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ben, lj said:

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RC said:
ben, ....I watched your posts for a long time now and all you do is criticizing, bragging and whining.

Wow, that must be some pharmacy school in Europe you attended where they obviously teach students like you more about Porsches than Porsche even teaches their mechanics.

Yep, you were one of the lying diehards....

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Carlos from Spain said:
Ben,
I have known you in the forums back when you were in Florida and drove the 996Cab. Your posting since you met with Nick and tried Larry's CGT and decided to cancle your CGT order has been reduced to just posting only when you get a chance to poke, whinne and bitch about Porsche, in every single post. I'm not saying you can't bring negative aspects out (you know I bring them out too when need be) but you should rethink about getting carried away with your personal vendetta, its monopolising and skewing all your contributions.

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VKSF said:
Carlos, I thought you had recently verified on this board that one 997S had documented RMS...no? Are RC's comments above indicating that PAG disputes the diagnosis?

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ben, lj said:

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Carlos from Spain said:
Ben,
I have known you in the forums back when you were in Florida and drove the 996Cab. Your posting since you met with Nick and tried Larry's CGT and decided to cancle your CGT order has been reduced to just posting only when you get a chance to poke, whinne and bitch about Porsche, in every single post. I'm not saying you can't bring negative aspects out (you know I bring them out too when need be) but you should rethink about getting carried away with your personal vendetta, its monopolising and skewing all your contributions.

I still sing the bullet proof praises of both my ex-911s (993 and 996) and most recently have jumped on the CGT bandwagon after having the car impress me so much. That said, I still bitch about my POS CT and do bring the truth to any conversation re: the RMS issue that may need it. The topic of this very thread was a request for the truth re: the RMS issue. The polls on the internet (about the only darn thing we can do if Porsche won't permanently fix or disclose the problem), cited personal experience with friends who've had RMS failures as well as conversations with numerous Porsche dealer technicians on the chronic issue, and even mentioned the CONFIRMED 997 RMS leaks (in both S and non-S models). What have I done wrong in that? Is the protocol to staunchly deny a problem exists based on volumonous evidence to the contrary? If so, don't expect me to conform anytime soon.

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Carlos from Spain said:

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VKSF said:
Carlos, I thought you had recently verified on this board that one 997S had documented RMS...no? Are RC's comments above indicating that PAG disputes the diagnosis?

I posted the invoice of a 997S owner ("infestation") who posted it in another forum were it says that RMS and intermediate shaft seals were replaced due to oil leak. So for me this is confimation enough, yes, for me. However this does not confirm that the 996/986 RMS leak issue is present on the 997 yet, there is not enough evidence for that yet (as some may intentionally lead people to believe). It may be present in the 997/987 for what we know, but there is not enough cases (nor 997 sold to owners) yet to prove its as prevalent in the 997/987 as in the 996/986. There are GT3's who have had RMS leaks, it can happen to any car, but not in the ridiculous abundance as in the 996/986 and that is waht needs to be proven yet. The good thing is that if the 997/987 inherited the RMS issue, we will hear about it in time since many case will start to appear, and if its not present then we will only hear about a RMS leak here and there every so often and thats it. I know some people are actually wishing the RMS issue continues in the 997 and will jump to conclusions, but so far we don't have enough info yet. Now, if you ask my personal opinion, I'm not too optimistic about the RMS issue being fixed in the 997, maybe on the 997S but still. I find hard to believe Porsche would not fix it and have the nerve to carry it over to the 997, but then again I never though it would go on in the 996/986 for 7 year unfixed when I first heard about it in the first year models.

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VKSF said:I would think PAG's financial guys have done the analysis on RMS warranty repair costs vs costs of engineering/building more robust engine block...and made logical choices. If quality problems become large enough, they eventually show up in co.'s financials (e.g., DaimlerChrysler's recent earnings release where Merc's warranty repair costs are jeopardizing profitability of co.).

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Carlos from Spain said:

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ben, lj said:

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Carlos from Spain said:
Ben,
I have known you in the forums back when you were in Florida and drove the 996Cab. Your posting since you met with Nick and tried Larry's CGT and decided to cancle your CGT order has been reduced to just posting only when you get a chance to poke, whinne and bitch about Porsche, in every single post. I'm not saying you can't bring negative aspects out (you know I bring them out too when need be) but you should rethink about getting carried away with your personal vendetta, its monopolising and skewing all your contributions.

I still sing the bullet proof praises of both my ex-911s (993 and 996) and most recently have jumped on the CGT bandwagon after having the car impress me so much. That said, I still bitch about my POS CT and do bring the truth to any conversation re: the RMS issue that may need it. The topic of this very thread was a request for the truth re: the RMS issue. The polls on the internet (about the only darn thing we can do if Porsche won't permanently fix or disclose the problem), cited personal experience with friends who've had RMS failures as well as conversations with numerous Porsche dealer technicians on the chronic issue, and even mentioned the CONFIRMED 997 RMS leaks (in both S and non-S models). What have I done wrong in that? Is the protocol to staunchly deny a problem exists based on volumonous evidence to the contrary? If so, don't expect me to conform anytime soon.

Ben, I'm not talking about the RMS issue, you know how I feel myself about the RMS, even more strongly than you do about it and have been more active about it since a long time.
It about the negativety that dominates ALL your posts now, how you express yourself about it, and how you just bother to post anymore only if its to put down and bash Porsche at any chance you get. Its not how you were before, I remember the "arguments" you had with nick in the forums when he did his usual provocations about Porsche. Thats what I'm refering to.