Feb 14, 2005 3:52:52 AM
Quote:
Holminator said:
Okay dudes. Found it now that my wife has stopped tasking me. Try this (it's a good one): http://www.ferrariclub.com/faq/heeltoe.html. Enjoy!
Feb 14, 2005 3:57:17 AM
Quote:
JP66 said:Quote:
Holminator said:
Okay dudes. Found it now that my wife has stopped tasking me. Try this (it's a good one): http://www.ferrariclub.com/faq/heeltoe.html. Enjoy!
I just tried your link and it said it didn't exist
Feb 14, 2005 7:34:28 AM
Quote:
nberry said:
I agree. Those that heel and toe on the street are engaging in a practice that is initially much harder on the transmission and clutch. Unless one is very proficient (Ben is) the times you miss revvs is brutal on the car.
Also, what is the point of using it in street driving? The technique was developed solely for racing and not as many have stated to run the car smoother. Why would anyone need to exit a street corner faster?
H&T on the street is a useful as changing your oil every 100 miles. Just does not make sense.
BTW, is heel and toe recommended in the manual? Is it even discussed by Porsche other than in a track setting (PDE)?
Feb 14, 2005 8:51:56 AM
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
nberry said:
I agree. Those that heel and toe on the street are engaging in a practice that is initially much harder on the transmission and clutch. Unless one is very proficient (Ben is) the times you miss revvs is brutal on the car.
Also, what is the point of using it in street driving? The technique was developed solely for racing and not as many have stated to run the car smoother. Why would anyone need to exit a street corner faster?
H&T on the street is a useful as changing your oil every 100 miles. Just does not make sense.
BTW, is heel and toe recommended in the manual? Is it even discussed by Porsche other than in a track setting (PDE)?
I don?t agree.
Well, preicesely because its street driving those that are starting to learn it, can start out doing it in light downshifts were there is no danger and then progress, and as Ben pointed out, its the only way to make it second nature form the practice.
Its may have been developed for racing, but that doesn't mean that matching the revs before dropping the clutch repeteadly on a shorter gear is not smoother on the engine and transmission. And regardless if you are driving in the street, there are always times you have to downshift don't you? you should always have the more or less appropiate gear for the exit anyway, you never know whats going to happen.
So I guess you change your oil every 100 miles cause your F1 tranny heel-and-toes automatically for you when you downshift and blips the throotle to rev match... on the street
As to the manual, does the manual teach you how to drive?
Quote:
Justin said:
Hard braking at the track or on a mountain road is not the place to be learning for the exactly reason you mention. If something goes wrong, you will not make the corner. It's better to get started in an environment that provides room for error and you can work your way up from there.
I can understand the folks with F1/sequential interface transmissions laughing at everyone, but it's also a satisfying part of the convential manual shifter. When I master it, then I may go to a gearbox with a sequential interface.
Nick, Ben, et al,
Suppose you are driving a standard stick shift Ferrari or other sports car, and not one with the F1 option (bear with me here). How are you approaching turns that require a downshift? Let the clutch out slowly under braking? Downshift post apex? Let the engine pull in a higher gear?
Just curious as to what the alternatives are for street driving.
Feb 14, 2005 7:42:17 PM
Quote:
Zani said:
http://www.touringgas.com/Videos/Supercars3parte.zip
A Video with Walter Röhrl in an Audi Quattro Rally car. The camera shows also his feet and the pedals while driving.
Bye
zani
Feb 14, 2005 9:06:42 PM
Quote:
Ando said:
On another point, and this has been raised before, I find H&T down changes more difficult in my 997 then it was in the 996 because of the pedal positions, it was so easy and natural in the 996 but requires a little more thought and effort in the 996.
Feb 14, 2005 9:59:02 PM
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
... if you get it wrong it will do more harm than good coming into a corner, but since you can start on the street gradually with slower downshifts progresively you can get proficient enough to use it in sporty driving.
Quote:
W8MM said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
... if you get it wrong it will do more harm than good coming into a corner, but since you can start on the street gradually with slower downshifts progresively you can get proficient enough to use it in sporty driving.
Carlos is exactly right.
I can't figure out what all the hostility for using heel & toe on the street is about. Is no one here capable of starting out at less than 9.5/10? Where is the danger at 3/10?
Good golly! I would be nowhere in my progressively more intense appreciation of cars if I never practiced new techniques on the street. Nothing weird is going to happen at 3/10 when one begins to commit proper pedal application to muscle memory. It's a bit like ballroom dancing: it has to get automatic before it can be really useful. How is one supposed to become proficient without lots of practice? Where is the most available practice to be found?
Who's your Nanny?
After one commits H&T to muscle memory, then one can graduate to the adjustments necessary to for high-g-load pedal sensitivity. The driver's inputs are accentuated or diminished due to the g-loads cause by higher intensity driving, but the basic technique remains the same. Trying to figure it all out at high-g in the beginning just makes it all harder to learn than need be.
Feb 15, 2005 12:31:08 AM
Quote:
W8MM said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
... if you get it wrong it will do more harm than good coming into a corner, but since you can start on the street gradually with slower downshifts progresively you can get proficient enough to use it in sporty driving.
Carlos is exactly right.
I can't figure out what all the hostility for using heel & toe on the street is about. Is no one here capable of starting out at less than 9.5/10? Where is the danger at 3/10?
Good golly! I would be nowhere in my progressively more intense appreciation of cars if I never practiced new techniques on the street. Nothing weird is going to happen at 3/10 when one begins to commit proper pedal application to muscle memory. It's a bit like ballroom dancing: it has to get automatic before it can be really useful. How is one supposed to become proficient without lots of practice? Where is the most available practice to be found?
Who's your Nanny?
After one commits H&T to muscle memory, then one can graduate to the adjustments necessary to for high-g-load pedal sensitivity. The driver's inputs are accentuated or diminished due to the g-loads cause by higher intensity driving, but the basic technique remains the same. Trying to figure it all out at high-g in the beginning just makes it all harder to learn than need be.
Quote:
W8MM said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
... if you get it wrong it will do more harm than good coming into a corner, but since you can start on the street gradually with slower downshifts progresively you can get proficient enough to use it in sporty driving.
Carlos is exactly right.
I can't figure out what all the hostility for using heel & toe on the street is about. Is no one here capable of starting out at less than 9.5/10? Where is the danger at 3/10?
Good golly! I would be nowhere in my progressively more intense appreciation of cars if I never practiced new techniques on the street. Nothing weird is going to happen at 3/10 when one begins to commit proper pedal application to muscle memory. It's a bit like ballroom dancing: it has to get automatic before it can be really useful. How is one supposed to become proficient without lots of practice? Where is the most available practice to be found?
Who's your Nanny?
After one commits H&T to muscle memory, then one can graduate to the adjustments necessary to for high-g-load pedal sensitivity. The driver's inputs are accentuated or diminished due to the g-loads cause by higher intensity driving, but the basic technique remains the same. Trying to figure it all out at high-g in the beginning just makes it all harder to learn than need be.
Feb 15, 2005 4:49:13 PM
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zacharie said:
If H&T has been developed for rally, ...
Feb 15, 2005 10:30:01 PM
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Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
Ando said:
On another point, and this has been raised before, I find H&T down changes more difficult in my 997 then it was in the 996 because of the pedal positions, it was so easy and natural in the 996 but requires a little more thought and effort in the 996.
Aldo, that is exactly what I said when I tried the 997, I thought it may be just me but I'm considering aftermarket pedals for the 997 when it arrives.
Feb 15, 2005 10:35:54 PM
Feb 15, 2005 11:10:52 PM
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Ando said:
Ahh yeah, it's coming back to me now, can't wait for spring to get the bikes out! You're so lucky Carlos being able to ride all year round...scratch a pedal for me mate!
Quote:
Thus unless you have mastered it your better over practicing with the engine turn off to get a better feel for the technique.
Once you feel your proficient, you can start the engine and practice blipping while the car is stationary. Once you mastered the blipping you can head for the road.
Feb 16, 2005 4:29:39 PM
Quote:
Matt C said:
Excuse my ignorance but what is double-declutching?
Feb 16, 2005 5:49:09 PM
Feb 16, 2005 8:05:35 PM
Feb 17, 2005 1:26:36 AM