Crown

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69bossnine said:
I've had the opportunity of driving a 360 Modena, and it's an amazing car, but I can only imagine owning one as a weekend toy. With a 911, it seems to fit into everyday life like a good pair of blue jeans.

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MKW said:

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ben, lj said:
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Isn't that called a GT2 and didn't it sell horribly in the US (Porsche's largest market)?

No - the GT2 came with two seats, no stability control and a price tag that most local dealers told me from day 1 was $50K too high and would be it's downfall and they were right.
I'm talking about a wished for RWD 997 Turbo priced a few $K below the AWD , 150 lighter and hopefully with the full complement ofAWD 997 Turbo luxe features , rear seats, all the electronic nannies including active differential to handle all that power going only to one axle and retaining stabilty yaw control - you know - a RWD version that I think will better please the people who have knocked the AWD version as being too clinically competent but lacking that edge w/o losing what the GT2 took away. Basically the same set of " driving diapers" the new F430 has . That's what I'd get . Who needs AWD in California , esp since most of us have several other cars for the really bad weather and the little bit of extra front grip is actually a negative to many enthusiasts vs the Ferrari V8 type cars. .

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ben, lj said:

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69bossnine said:
I've had the opportunity of driving a 360 Modena, and it's an amazing car, but I can only imagine owning one as a weekend toy. With a 911, it seems to fit into everyday life like a good pair of blue jeans.

I'm curious as to why the base 360 isn't a great daily driver? It's way more comfy than a 99X (owing to it being much wider), it has all the leather, etc, it has a way better suspension setup (though Porsche addressed this in "some" 997s) in that you can set it for regular (as compliant if not more so than any 99X) or sport which is still pretty nice. Aside from the attention (a big issue for many understandably), and maybe some add'l maintence which is made up for with substantially less depreciation from MSRP, the 360 is a fine daily driver.

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Carlos from Spain said:

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ben, lj said:

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69bossnine said:
I've had the opportunity of driving a 360 Modena, and it's an amazing car, but I can only imagine owning one as a weekend toy. With a 911, it seems to fit into everyday life like a good pair of blue jeans.

I'm curious as to why the base 360 isn't a great daily driver? It's way more comfy than a 99X (owing to it being much wider), it has all the leather, etc, it has a way better suspension setup (though Porsche addressed this in "some" 997s) in that you can set it for regular (as compliant if not more so than any 99X) or sport which is still pretty nice. Aside from the attention (a big issue for many understandably), and maybe some add'l maintence which is made up for with substantially less depreciation from MSRP, the 360 is a fine daily driver.

Maybe over at the states but not in Europe:

- No rear seats whatsoever,
- width and visibility is not made for european city driving nor parking,
- maintenance here is not compensated at all by depreciation difference that there is here between Porsche and Ferrari, not to mention insurance costs,
- then there is the dealer and service infrastructure or lack of there of which is important on a daily driver for regular maintence services and also any repairs you may need, and heaven forbit you get into a colision, you are out of a car for 2 months to get it repaired waiting for the stupiest part to arrive,
- then there is the weather, how many F360's are/can be driven in winter/snow, but 996 has no problem
- then there is the safety in a daily driver in a car without even side impact airbags and with a tendency to charcoal its passengers, which maybe OK for a weekend car but not a daily driver in this day and age,
- and lastly and very importantly, the attention you call is unbearable for many even for weekend use not to mention for use as a daily driver.

So maybe its an OK daily driver for the suburbs in the summer of a large city in the US but not in Europe or many other places around the world. Of course it depends on how far are you willing to compromise, since almost any car can be used as a daily driver if you want to. But compared to a 996, its not even close.

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Carlos from Spain said:
Without rear seats the daily driver capability is highly reduced, can't take a couple of kids to school for example or take a couple of friends to luch as I'm doing tomorrow. No type of rear seats seriously hampers daily driver use for many people and in some cases a two seater is simply not an option.

Dealer network is inferior by ten fold or more to what a Porsche has, I know a guy here that flew, yes flew his Ferrari to Madrid just to get it serviced, and Spain is a large european market for luxury cars such as Ferrari, imagine in other places. Also repairs are known to be a pain in the arse compared to other brands, not comparable to Porsche, kust like Porsche is not comparable to VW, etc.

As to weather, I'm not taliking about rain, but in many places it snows in the winter and the F360's get garaged most of the winter for a reason, and I have yet to see one with snow wheels/tires. That means 0 daily driveability in the winter. Wereas 911 are driven all year round with even AWD versions available, lists of approved winter tires and sizes, and even a electronic stability control like PSM, not a simple traction control system. There is even Porsche snow driving DE's but I'm not aware of any Ferrari's.

As to the side airbargs prohibiting the kids riding in the daily driver, it has two rear seats in that case, much better than just one passenger seat.

I believe Fla would be a place were a car such as the F360 can be used more as a daily driver, I agree, but places like that are not the norm out there. It may be a daily driver for some people, and I think thats what you are trying to say, in some case it can be perfectly used as a daily driver. But I'm saying thats a minority, while the 996 can be a daily driver for the mayority compared to the F360. So although in some cases the F360 can be used as a daily driver, its simply not comparable to the daily driver capabilities and versatility of the 996.

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69bossnine said:
Ingress/egress is worse, and how much WIDER does a 911 have to be??? Are you chubby? I don't have that problem. I feel like I've got more headroom in a 911 (I'm 6'-2"), and the visibility out of the car is much better. Like I said, I can't exactly put my finger on it, but the 911 simply has a benign and chummish character, like a good dog. A Ferrari is too glamorous and obnoxious for me to envision tooling around in every day

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ben, lj said:
Aside from the attention (a big issue for many understandably), and maybe some add'l maintence which is made up for with substantially less depreciation from MSRP, the 360 is a fine daily driver.

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Grant said:

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ben, lj said:
Aside from the attention (a big issue for many understandably), and maybe some add'l maintence which is made up for with substantially less depreciation from MSRP, the 360 is a fine daily driver.

Ben, if the 360 is truly used as a daily driver (12k miles/yr or so), then the maintainence and depreciation is steep. When was the last time you saw a 355 or 360 with 75k on the clock?

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Grant said:

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ben, lj said:
Aside from the attention (a big issue for many understandably), and maybe some add'l maintence which is made up for with substantially less depreciation from MSRP, the 360 is a fine daily driver.

Ben, if the 360 is truly used as a daily driver (12k miles/yr or so), then the maintainence and depreciation is steep. When was the last time you saw a 355 or 360 with 75k on the clock?

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MKW said:

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Grant said:

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ben, lj said:
Aside from the attention (a big issue for many understandably), and maybe some add'l maintence which is made up for with substantially less depreciation from MSRP, the 360 is a fine daily driver.

Ben, if the 360 is truly used as a daily driver (12k miles/yr or so), then the maintainence and depreciation is steep. When was the last time you saw a 355 or 360 with 75k on the clock?

Or the discussion on Ferrari boards where many 360 CS owners were afraid to use the LC launch control , ever, for fear the next buyer will assume the car has been abused or the clutch is toast, since it's usage history usage is stored in the computer. There goes the resale $$$

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ben, lj said:again carlos, the fl poster to whom i am responding lives in Florida USA, not europe. i'm not sure if you're familiar with the climate, but snow would be considered the 10th wonder of the world there if it ever occured. most "daily drivers" in the US don't even have that "simple traction control" found in the ferrari.

why is everything a comparison between porsche and ...? i simply asked the fla poster to elaborate on his feeling the 360 was not a good daily driver since in that state and climate it is a bit baffling as in S. Cal. it's probably not a coincidence the top 4 p-car dealers in the country are in Fla with another of the top 5 being in CA. the concentration of f-cars in CA is probably about = to that in the balance of the country. in these climates, there is no excuse for them not being daily drivers unless you have small children to tote around which would be questionable in the 911 as well (especially with regard to storage). we are talking about sports cars afterall. maybe this is why the magazines often pick the M3 in their silly subjective comparison tests over the p-car because the M3 has back seats and a real trunk. i mean does everyone want the same thing out of their cars? if so, why don't we just have one manufacturer for the whole world making one model in one color with no options.

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69bossnine said:
Ingress/egress is worse, and how much WIDER does a 911 have to be??? Are you chubby? I don't have that problem. I feel like I've got more headroom in a 911 (I'm 6'-2"), and the visibility out of the car is much better. Like I said, I can't exactly put my finger on it, but the 911 simply has a benign and chummish character, like a good dog. A Ferrari is too glamorous and obnoxious for me to envision tooling around in every day

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Carlos from Spain said:

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ben, lj said:again carlos, the fl poster to whom i am responding lives in Florida USA, not europe. i'm not sure if you're familiar with the climate, but snow would be considered the 10th wonder of the world there if it ever occured. most "daily drivers" in the US don't even have that "simple traction control" found in the ferrari.

why is everything a comparison between porsche and ...? i simply asked the fla poster to elaborate on his feeling the 360 was not a good daily driver since in that state and climate it is a bit baffling as in S. Cal. it's probably not a coincidence the top 4 p-car dealers in the country are in Fla with another of the top 5 being in CA. the concentration of f-cars in CA is probably about = to that in the balance of the country. in these climates, there is no excuse for them not being daily drivers unless you have small children to tote around which would be questionable in the 911 as well (especially with regard to storage). we are talking about sports cars afterall. maybe this is why the magazines often pick the M3 in their silly subjective comparison tests over the p-car because the M3 has back seats and a real trunk. i mean does everyone want the same thing out of their cars? if so, why don't we just have one manufacturer for the whole world making one model in one color with no options.

I lived in Ft Lauderdale for 2 years in my youth thats why I said that Fla would be one of those specific places were an F360 could be used a daily driver more so than in other places (although still for a less number of people than a than a 996), thats why I started my post as maybe in US but not in Europe.

Coincidently I can't think of many places more sterile to use a F360 as a daily driver than Florida. The roads are all flat and straight, there are no curves, just intersections. The average drivers are simply horrible, and all the lanes are blocked by a sheep-like herd of trucks, vans and SUVs and cars all driving at the same speed, talking on the phone, eating their lunch, etc. The road surfaces are poor. The last time I was there I almost popped a brain aneurism watching all this. It would simply be an agony.

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ozr said:
Carlos,

You are right about Fcar usability as a daily driver in Europe (except SOME "safe" for Fcar german cities, Swiss and northern Italy towns...),- IT'S ABSOLUTELY NOT A DAILY DRIVER vs Pcar IS in some locations. And the explanation is MUCH more simple - SECURITY/SAFETY and VANDALISM!

Ben, lj misrepresents US (including Florida) conditions for such cars as Fcar to be as a daily driver. US streets are NOT SAFE ENOUGH/ VANDALs FREE for such a RELAXED lifestyle!

Even Florida - the BEST US location for Fcars - IS NOT safe enough for Fcar to be used as a DAILY driver for the above reasons.

Ben, park your car in Miami Beach somewhere for couple of hours WITHOUT anybody BODYGARDING it...then tell all of us, if you'll find it, when you come back...

Simply Pcar IS MORE UNDERSTATED/STEALTHy and attracts less UNNECESSARY attention everywhere in Europe and US...

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ben, lj said:

... where half the drivers are insured and an even lower % speaks english but takes their driver's test in espanol despite all street signs being in english. ...

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ben, lj said:
hey carlos. the boring but very well maintained roads (just a lot of straights) in fla were a reason for our relocating to CA along with the weather.

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ben, lj said:an even lower % speaks english but takes their driver's test in espanol

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RSA333 said:
Picture?

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Carlos from Spain said:
... to cut a long story short, I failed it!! I couldn't understand well enough the questions in the spanish of the spanish test! the spanish was way different ... had to come back the next day and take it in english and of course I passed

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ben, lj said:

again, the poster is from Fla not europe so he will sustain much less depreciation than he'll spend in incrimental maintenance.

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MKSGR said:

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ben, lj said:

again, the poster is from Fla not europe so he will sustain much less depreciation than he'll spend in incrimental maintenance.

It is all about defining daily driver. Personally, I prefer driving each car I own for about 30.000 km p.a. In that scenario, depreciation is quite substantial for any Ferrari. The market for Ferraris with up tp 90.000km is rather limited based on my experience.

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vtrader said:

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Carlos from Spain said:
... to cut a long story short, I failed it!! I couldn't understand well enough the questions in the spanish of the spanish test! the spanish was way different ... had to come back the next day and take it in english and of course I passed

Awe yes, that because we speak Mexican Spanish and not Castilan Spanish in the US. As I recall from school, Castilan Spanish is more formal than Mexican Spanish and some words probably mean different things. It probably be the same with Americans taking a British drivers test. The Queen's English is different from American English plus they mis-spell so many English words.