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    Feb 10, 2005 4:43:28 PM

    FutchM
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    Reply to: andreas_mue

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    I think you miss the point of what a 911 is.
    It's not about speed anymore, every car now is fast.
    Same for Ferrari, I don't have the numbers at hand but I'm pretty sure an M5 or S65AMG would give a hard time to a 360 or even a 430.
    It's more than that, it's the handling, the image, the classic lines, etc.
    Yes the upgraded Gallardo will be very fast in a straight line but so will an RS6 or S65, the Gallardo will pull away but not clearly.
    And personally, I don't give a damn about any car taking me over, if it makes them happy, great!
    I'd rather drive a Boxster S than an M5, but to each his own

    Feb 10, 2005 5:01:01 PM

    andreas_mue
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    Reply to: FutchM

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Yes, you are right, each to his own. Therefore you can't say, that someone misses the point ... :-)

    And concerning the image: What are the roots of the porsche-image? Design and power. Look at the selling-figures of the 911. They show me, that me and some of my friends are not alone with my point of view ...

    And look at the owners of a Cayenne: They are buying the image of a porsche. That is OK! But I think, Porsche is still on the way of undermining this, former created, image. And in a few years, they will earn, what they now seed. And don't be dazzled by the current sale-figures, they still depend on that former image.

    By the way: No, I'm no priest :-) Just a concerned longlasting Porsche-driver.

    Feb 10, 2005 5:24:48 PM

    TEE
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    Reply to: andreas_mue

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Silly me but at the end of the day the possible increments are marginal. AS Audi or Merc builds a 500bhp car which does 0-60 in under 4 sec Porsche will gain nothing by making it 600bhp and try to manage 3.5 sec. At one point it is not that easy anymore (no longer a physics expert). Yet when you talk about going from A to B other than in straight line it is a different story and that is were Porsche continues to excel compared to any of other cars!!

    But each to there own - although some are spreadsheet focused or never really understood the Brand to begin with...

    Feb 10, 2005 5:36:28 PM

    Super DariusM
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    Reply to: TEE

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    can't wait to see something about this CAR!

    some draws,pictures,or something that let me know how this beast will looks!

    Some rumors tell the rear wing is like the 993 Turbo wing,some others tell that the rear is like a 959,the side air intake will looks like the New Boxster one,but more "hig"...the front have the "strange" fog lights...really i'm a little bit confused..

    i can't wait again!!

    ciaoo

    Feb 10, 2005 5:39:20 PM

    AndrewSS
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    Reply to: Bitko

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Quote:
    Bitko said:
    I was comparing 997TT to Gallardo, why are we comparing them with M5, is it a sportscar? You might not have to be ashamed in being an American, but questionable when you think and brag about M5 being a sportscar in a forum like this one. Yes I also agree, if you wanted to drive something sporty, and didn't have the skill or financial abiblity to buy a proper sportscar you would try to convince yourself that M5 is a sportscar.



    why bring silly national "things" into a discussion like this... /

    Feb 10, 2005 5:48:23 PM

    zzbobaA
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    Reply to: andreas_mue

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Quote:
    And concerning the image: What are the roots of the porsche-image? Design and power. Look at the selling-figures of the 911. They show me, that me and some of my friends are not alone with my point of view ...




    a porsche 911's core image never was defined by "lot's of power" and "faster on the autobahn than anything".

    911 is about agility, less weight, a compact shape, feeling the street...

    ...not to win any traffic light drag race. probably any BMW 330d with auto tranny and traction control would win against my GT3 RS (at least if i don't manage a perfect launch). SO WHAT? the great thing in a porsche is, that you feel no need for such actions.

    even 10 years ago, the M5 got more HP than the 964 porsche. or the alpina B12 biturbo. or the lotus omega.

    the first 911 back in 1964 got 130 HP. while a jag E type got way over 200 (250? i'm not sure).

    by the way: there once was a porsche with lot's of HP and a nice big V8. the 928. nobody bought it.

    what's new though, is that merc is stuck in some kind of power war (with itself). but i've tried out the AMG SL 55 and the whole time the ESP lamp was flashing up. so much power, but what for?

    Feb 10, 2005 5:48:35 PM

    RCA
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    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Andreas, I own a Cayenne Turbo and I did NOT buy it because it has a Porsche badge on it. I bought it because it is fun to drive (I owned a Mercedes E55 AMG before that), it can move the whole family and the performance is incredible for a SUV.
    Regarding the 911, I agree that you're missing the point: a 911 is no Autobahn car, it has never been. I owned a Lancia Delta HF Integrale around 18 years ago, a version tuned to 280 HP by Holzer Motorsport. The 911 had no chance against this car on the Autobahn and I saw lots of frustrated 911 owner faces. There will be always a (usually tuned) car which is faster than the 911.
    And if you're worried about the new M5 (which I outrun on ANY country road with the 355 HP of my 997 Carrera S), go for the 996 Turbo S. This car is definetely faster than the M5, even on the Autobahn. Or go for a 996 GT2 and no worries about a M5 anymore.
    What do you want, a 911 with 500 HP for 90000 Euro? You won't get that from Porsche.

    Yes, the Gallardo is an impressive piece of technology but I'm not sure you can really use it as a daily driver, not to speak about insurance, maintenance and purchase cost.

    The M5 is fast on the Autobahn? Well, over 250...BYE BYE. The problem is that a lot of 911 owners don't drive that fast because they're afraid to. I never understand it why a 911 drives at 150 kph on the right lane, I always have to wonder myself when I pass such cars at 280 on the speedo in my Cayenne Turbo.

    Get a SL65 AMG and you'll be Autobahn king, especially with the 300 kph speed limit upgrade. Even the Carrera GT may have problems to follow.

    Feb 10, 2005 6:50:09 PM

    69bossnine
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    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Quote:
    COME ON, wake up! Porsche should come back to their roots and offer undisputable cars that can't be beated by sedans.

    What a bunch of nonsense. You're waxing poetic about Porsches from the past. All past road-going Porsches were far SLOWER than the ones we have today!! The only reason that you didn't have sedans blasting past 911's in the late 60's, and 70's and 80's is because NOBODY BUILT SEDANS LIKE THAT THEN (unless you want to talk crude late 60's U.S. big-block police package sedans, which back then, with appropriate gearing, could pass anything on the autobahn except a gas station). Today's market and industry is different. Only in the last 6-10 years has there been a strong market demand for powerful and fast 4-door kid-hauling grocery-getters. Porsche hasn't softened their approach, the new 911's are amazing performers. They just have to share the road with a new category of high-horsepower sedans that are amazing for what they are, but are still no replacement for a true compact sports machine like the 911. Yes, in a straight line, you won't lose them in your mirrors. Get on a twisty road though, and the Porsche regains its rightful crown. To whine about getting thumped on the autobahn is to not understand much about Porsche's true roots. With a sedan there's no limit to the cubic inches and forced induction plumbing you can cram under a hood. With a sports car, you've got to fit within the weight and size envelope of the car, you have to optimize a good balance. It's like comparing a professional boxer to a sumo wrestler.

    Feb 10, 2005 7:12:13 PM

    neunelf
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    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Gallardo looks great and becuase of AWD you can drive it 12 months per year almost everywhere--that is if you never have any luggage. Have you ever looked at the trunk? What use is a great car if you can't take it even for a weekend trip?

    The 911 offers more usability than the Gallardo, enough for many (in my case most) trips but it will always loose on paper when compared to the M5. Less HP, slower acceleration, smaller trunk, seats 2 people and 2 children rather than 4 adults,... Drive both cars and if you don't fall in love with the 911 go for the M5.

    Feb 10, 2005 7:27:52 PM

    RR4
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    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Fanch you wrote:

    "I think you miss the point of what a 911 is.
    It's not about speed anymore, every car now is fast.
    Same for Ferrari, I don't have the numbers at hand but I'm pretty sure an M5 or S65AMG would give a hard time to a 360 or even a 430.
    It's more than that, it's the handling, the image, the classic lines, etc."

    If that was the case we wouldn't need to buy a new Porsche b/c the old ones have all the lines, designs and handling we need. So in keeping with that thought, ask yourslf besides those 3 things you mentioned what would you expect in a new 911 or Turbo?

    RC, the governor in the M5 can be easily removed, bye bye Porsche then, right? But I don;t really care about the speed.

    My point is what are we spending the extra dollars for in a new 911 or Turbo, if we have all the handling we need in the current models?

    The thing that excites me about the M5 is that the engineers at BMW could have BUT didn't pop on a super charger to their NA motor to get 500HP. My whole point is not about the fact that the M5 has 500HP, but how the BMW engineers achieved it. It is an engineering feat for ANY sports car, let alone a SEDAN - a sedan for gods sake, NA 500HP, name me one who has that.

    So in keeping with this thought if BMW can move a sedan the way they move the M5 with the epitome of technology, what I ask is Porsche doing to move a sports car or GT car, or whatever it is now?

    Yes we don't know exactly what the new Turbo has to offer, but it sounds as RC probably does at this point - so I may be specualting on everything, but RC may be able to tell us if the 997 Turbo will be as "cutting edge" as the M5 is to the sedan world. Right now I don't see the Turbo being as cutting edge to the sports car world.

    I hope you guys are understanding my point - b/c im sure the Turbo will go for a pretty penny.

    Feb 10, 2005 8:34:35 PM

    MKW
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    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Cutting edge in the sports car world costs $450-750 K - the Turbo is as cost constrained ( vs a Ferrari or Lamborghini ) as a Corvette Z06 is in it's market price range. Sounds like a Corvette is in your future, as you sound like a " bang - for - the buck " magazine bench racer kinda guy. But then the Rustang guys say the coming OEM 550 HP Cobra will give best " bang - for -the buck ". Of course , the same argument is made for " saving " on the purchase of a Turbo vs a Lambo or Ferrari ( not counting depreciation/maintenance).

    Feb 10, 2005 8:39:19 PM

    Dubliner
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    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Personally, I think this whole discussion is a bit silly. Some (misguided :-) folks will always criticise Porsche; they'll wax lyrical about Ferrari or Aston or whatever.
    To each his own. Let them go buy those cars and don't bother us. Me, I like my 997S, the fact that it's Cobalt Blue, and that for me it drives like silk. I like Guinness, Chateau Margaux and Gin and Tonics. I don't like Bud, Amstel Light, Peppermint Schnapps or Rap music. If you like those things, fine. We don't have to hang out together in search of cheap arguments.

    Feb 10, 2005 8:48:58 PM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Quote:
    RC said:
    The 997 Turbo plays in a completely different league and I also doubt that the F430 will have more than 500 HP in two years. F430 sales just started, they sell each and every car they produce, it wouldn't make sense to increase power after two years. Also look at the F430 price tag and availability. Not to speak about the fact that the F430 has a normally aspirated engine and every power increase would require significant changes to the engine and drivetrain.


    If we will see a more powerful F430 in a couple of years then it surely will be an F430 Challenge Stradale with 510 to 520 hp. Just my 2c.

    Feb 10, 2005 9:06:06 PM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: andreas_mue

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Quote:
    andreas_mue said:
    Sorry guys, I and a lot of my porsche-friends don't care at all about the Nürburgring-Laptimes when deciding to buy a 911 or not. Porsche is still living on their former image of being a car that can't be beated by others. This is a long time ago!

    It is a strange and painful feeling driving on the german autobahn in a 911 at high speed and not being CLEARLY able of getting rid of a M3 or, worse, an estate-car like the Audi S4! I mean, this is ridiculous in consideration of the price and the image of a 911! Can't you see the smile on the faces of the other drivers, telling their friends at home, that the 'god' of cars was JUST able to pass them and runaway only slowly? Porsche still profits from the voluntary speedlimitation of the other brands. So the 911 driver always can say: In the end I was faster ...




    I assume you have not tested a 996TT yet. This car is clearly quicker than 99.9% you can meet on the Autobahn. I expect the 997TT to be quicker than 99.999%

    Feb 10, 2005 9:34:28 PM

    RR4
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    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    MKW, obviously you didnt read my post before replying.

    Feb 10, 2005 9:52:08 PM

    69bossnine
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Quote:
    If we will see a more powerful F430 in a couple of years then it surely will be an F430 Challenge Stradale with 510 to 520 hp. Just my 2c.


    Great, and what will that one cost, a quarter million?? This discussion is looser and less relevant than a drunk teenage girl at Mardi Gras. So the M5 makes 500 n/a h.p...... Gee whiz... Somebody please tell me how you're going to fit a 5.0 liter V10 motor under the rear deck of a 911, without totally murdering the car in every aspect you could imagine, from styling to handling? Or, somebody else tell me how you glean 500 smog-legal h.p. out of a 3.8L flat six, or how you fit a larger stroke flat-6 into the rear of a 911 without again ruining the car. The only way that you can possibly get a naturally-aspirated 911 that runs alongside 500 h.p. sedans would be to toss the entire car into the trash, and tell Porsche to bring back the 928. No thanks. I like what the 911 is. I already have cars with over 500 h.p. (can't wait to mutilate the first new M5 I see in my crude yet effective and much lighter 510 h.p. '97 S351 Saleen). I'm not buying my 997S to win drag races and set records at Bonneville. I'm buying it because it is widely accepted as being the finest sports car you can buy for under $100K U.S., and for valid reason and on honest merit. A car is SO MUCH MORE than just bench racing and statistics. And what is frustrating me the MOST is that you've got almost ZERO PACKAGING LIMITATIONS when you're dropping an engine into a gargantuan sedan. It's not an amazing feat placing that engine into the 5-series, it's just damn convenient. Let me see BMW drop that baby into a Z4, and make the car actually work on a road course and in real life, and then I'd be truly impressed. For christ's sake, the new Bentley 4-door Continental sedan has 550 horsepower on tap, and is rumored to be capable of 190 mph. Is some bozo going to start comparing Porsche 911 variants to Bentleys?? Tossing a big-horsepower mill into a sedan is just a matter of opening the hood and lowering the hoist.

    Feb 10, 2005 10:55:04 PM

    turbolite
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    Reply to: neunelf

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Quote:
    dgoldsc said:
    Gallardo looks great and becuase of AWD you can drive it 12 months per year almost everywhere--that is if you never have any luggage. Have you ever looked at the trunk? What use is a great car if you can't take it even for a weekend trip?

    The 911 offers more usability than the Gallardo, enough for many (in my case most) trips but it will always loose on paper when compared to the M5. Less HP, slower acceleration, smaller trunk, seats 2 people and 2 children rather than 4 adults,... Drive both cars and if you don't fall in love with the 911 go for the M5.



    This is why an an Audi Le Mans might become an interesting proposition to some 996 tt drivers. 4wd, 450-500 hp, and quite some luggage space behind the seats. not to mention a competitive price (25% less than a tt at least). if audi gets that one right, it might become quite a success. the prototype at the IAA looked really good in flesh...


    turbolite

    Feb 11, 2005 12:13:23 AM

    FutchM
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    Reply to: RR4

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Quote:
    Fanch you wrote:

    "I think you miss the point of what a 911 is.
    It's not about speed anymore, every car now is fast.
    Same for Ferrari, I don't have the numbers at hand but I'm pretty sure an M5 or S65AMG would give a hard time to a 360 or even a 430.
    It's more than that, it's the handling, the image, the classic lines, etc."

    If that was the case we wouldn't need to buy a new Porsche b/c the old ones have all the lines, designs and handling we need. So in keeping with that thought, ask yourslf besides those 3 things you mentioned what would you expect in a new 911 or Turbo?




    No not at all, you misunderstood me, sorry for not being clear enough. I'm not talking about classic cars here, but modern cars.
    Classic cars are very different. I like the 911 because it's such a wonderful engineering package. See I'm an engineer and beyond the lines, heritage, noise, etc. I'm also fascinated by the engineer's achievement, what was once the major flaw of the car (rear engine) is now it's trademark, brilliant!
    And to answer your question, I also look into comfort, gizmos, goodies, but most of all, safety, I've had two big crashes (knock on wood) and I'm thankful I was in a well engineered car each time (Boxster S and 996 cab), nothing happened to me, bu no comment on the cars
    It's a difficult question to answer RR4 and I hope I've given you can element of response, but straight line speed would not even be in my top 10 requirements, acceleration would however
    The new 911 is always better than the previous but sticking to the same philosophy, I dig that.
    Having said that, one day, I WILL own a 356 speedster, a 356 Carrera and 911S from the late sixties and maybe just maybe, a 550 Spyder

    Feb 11, 2005 1:08:13 AM

    MKW
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    Reply to: RR4

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Quote:
    RR4 said:
    MKW, obviously you didnt read my post before replying.



    I read your post . Porsche cannot meet future emissions durabilty requirements with the flat six motor if 600 hp becomes the " norm " for sub-exotic sports cars. When I bought my first 911 in 1987- it had a generous 217 hp - the mighty Turbo had an unbelievable 283 hp and an outrageous 0-60 of 5.1 seconds .

    Porsche can't play in that 550-600 club and meet manufacturers ( not "Tuner " ) EPA durabilty stds or face millions in fines and recalls down the road if the cars get " dirty " ,unless it goes V8 as they have stated . OTOH, many tradition bound 911 buyers may not want a " thumpy " Cayenne Turbo - type motor out back vs the manic sewing machine on steroids sound of the flat 6.

    Feb 11, 2005 4:28:16 AM

    bostonmini
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    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    dont forget that the technological feat that the turbo 997 (and 996) produce is TORQUE...the engine is far more flexible than any NA motor...a 430 may pull in a straight line, altogether, but...wait till theres in gear acceleration measured;) and look how low the RPM range delivers the torque in!!! in the 996, at 2700 RPM peak!!!

    Feb 11, 2005 6:44:46 AM

    ben, lj
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:

    The final 997TT should definately drop bellow the 7:50, since thats what the 500HP Gallardo did, and we know the Porsche Turbo type 997 s going to be faster than the Gallardo and F430 at the track.



    yes, but the gallardo isn't carrying all that pork rumored to be on the 997TT and has a NA motor with a higher redline and larger power band. the only thing a 490 hp TT has going for it is the outrageously tall gears in the gallardo. however, this may not be a penalty on the ring anyway.

    Feb 11, 2005 6:45:57 AM

    ben, lj
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    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Quote:
    MKW said:
    Bring on the RWD , lighter , active differential 997 Turbo ,PAG, to compete with the RWD F430 and the rumored RWD Gallardo . The sports car world views these three cars as " comparable " in the sub-exotic marketplace - so let's see what each ( PAG, Ferrari-FIAT, Lambo-VWAG )can do in the classic RWD configuration with their latest technologies incl seq manual transmissions, stabilty control , active diffs , etc.



    Isn't that called a GT2 and didn't it sell horribly in the US (Porsche's largest market)?

    Feb 11, 2005 6:54:32 AM

    ben, lj
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    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Quote:
    RC said:
    The 997 Turbo plays in a completely different league and I also doubt that the F430 will have more than 500 HP in two years. F430 sales just started, they sell each and every car they produce, it wouldn't make sense to increase power after two years. Also look at the F430 price tag and availability. Not to speak about the fact that the F430 has a normally aspirated engine and every power increase would require significant changes to the engine and drivetrain.

    And as a last remark regarding power figures and weight figures: the 996 Turbo S with 450 HP outruns the F430 up to 100 mph by a fraction of a second, the difference is even bigger in the higher speed range. So yes, I like the F430 very much, it is a beautiful car and the performance is extraordinary but I'm still not THAT impressed.

    The upcoming 600 HP (I heard something about 560 HP and not 600 but anyway) Gallardo may be a different story, I always liked the Gallardo and in my opinion, this car has lots of potential for the future. But did you take a look at the price tag? How much do you think a 560 HP version costs because I doubt Audi will introduce the 560 HP as a base package at no extra cost.



    a heavier, but more powerful TT will be an even bigger bore than it is now. further, who gives a crap about straightline acceleration? i thought that wasn't porsche's forte anyway? why oh why make an already heavy car heavier (anyone who admits they can't feel the weight in a 996TT -much less a heavier 997 version, is not a driver)? it's such a shame they can't reduce their "massive" TT profit a little bit and use some of the more exotic materials found in the new Z06 (for god's sake!) and the FXXX to lighten weight as they both have (as has the low volume produced gallardo - though it's still too heavy).

    and since they can't give away new gallardos anywhere near sticker, i will wager you the new 600 hp (or almost 600 - whatever) will be the same price or just fractionally higher. the gallardo is the TT's real competition (bulky AWD) whereas the FXXX is for either poseurs or drivers.

    i guess drivers will still gravitate toward the GT3, and let's just hope they keep the weight increases to a minimal - or none at all.

    Feb 11, 2005 7:01:13 AM

    ben, lj
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Yes, the Gallardo is an impressive piece of technology but I'm not sure you can really use it as a daily driver, not to speak about insurance, maintenance and purchase cost.




    they're really not that much more to buy (the market is very very soft for them), and you may be right on the maintenance and insurance. however, lambo manages to produce a GREAT deal fewer of these cars for a small premium to the MUCH higher produced TT - and lambo doesn't have high margined V6 SUVs to help out. porsche really is a great company, but it sure isn't a ferrari or lambo like it used to be. it's more like a very high margined BMW one now.

    Feb 11, 2005 7:09:34 AM

    TopherV
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    Reply to: bostonmini

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    This is for the confused, the angry, or imbecilic people

    A little book i have appropriately named ...

    Current Models. Timeless Truths.

    Quote:
    "Look at any Porsche and you begin to see a philosophy based on what is true instead of what is trendy.
    Look closely and you can still see the pure truths learned building the original 356. There is a very simple reason for it all.
    Every Porsche owes its existence to the one that came before it.
    When you begin with something that is right, something that is true, your job is to improve it, not change it. "

    "Ferry Porsche was an engineer who loved driving and racing, so he built a car for those purposes. A car he
    could race on Sunday and drive to the office on Monday. He built it because he could, not because someone
    told him he should. It is that kind of single-minded drive to go one's own way that keeps us making our cars.
    It is why a Porsche looks the way it looks, why it is built the way it is built. This is also why a Porsche feels the way it feels"




    Quote:
    "To change is easy. To improve is hard."
    - Professor Ferdinand Porsche



    Feb 11, 2005 8:47:47 AM

    andreas_mue
    Junior
    andreas_mue
    Loc: Germany , Germany
    Posts: 67, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 28, 2003
    Reply to: TopherV

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Sure, a buyers-decision can not be reduced to only one reason, for example HP. It is a complex matter. But to make it clear: We are talking about sportscars and that means speed.

    What speed? This depends on the user: Laptime, straightline-acceleration or topspeed. And ask yourself what you need most of this three and, in general, PAG has to ask themselfes what the MAJORITY of potential buyers expects from a sportscar. How often is the majority of porsche-drivers on the racetrack? And what about country-roads with a speed limit even in germany?

    I'm not so wrong with my opinion that HP counts a lot for the buying-decision, otherwise PAG wouldn't raise the HP of the 997tt for rumoured 70!! Remember: 993tt 408 HP, 996tt 420HP! This means only 12 HP more!

    It's great that there are a lot of PAG-enthusiast and -philosophers around the world, telling others that they don't understand Porsche. But they are not enough to keep a brand alive. PAG has to go with the market requirement. And not to gamble away their image of the 'god of sportscars', they have to raise HP. And as I mentioned, they are on that way but in my opinion it is not resolute enough. Just because of the active competition they have to do more.

    RR4 puts it right: The TT is not the "cutting edge" any more. And that's just what I want to say.

    But each to his own. :-)

    Feb 11, 2005 9:45:41 AM

    FutchM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Futch
    Loc: EU , United Kingdom
    Posts: 4759, Gallery
    Registered on: May 14, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Quote:
    The problem is that a lot of 911 owners don't drive that fast because they're afraid to. I never understand it why a 911 drives at 150 kph on the right lane, I always have to wonder myself when I pass such cars at 280 on the speedo in my Cayenne Turbo.



    This is where every driver differs, I admit it RC, I do not feel 100% comfortable driving for a sustained amount of time over 200 km/h. And I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
    My relaxed cruising speed it between 160 and 180, anything above, my hands start sweating...
    Fear? Yeah probably, nothing wrong with admiting it.
    However, if I can, I will try not to be on the fast lane for sure.
    Occasionnally, I will "sprint" to 260-280 and I do love the rush it provides but keeping it there makes me nervous, for my safety and for my license
    At the end of the day, a car is an object, you buy it and you do whatever you want with it. If you want to put in your garden and look at it all day, as long as that's what makes you happy, that's great!

    Feb 11, 2005 12:48:59 PM

    Rossi
    Rennteam VIP
    Rossi
    Loc: Home , Germany
    Posts: 12680, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 11, 2002
    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    Quote:
    If we will see a more powerful F430 in a couple of years then it surely will be an F430 Challenge Stradale with 510 to 520 hp. Just my 2c.


    Great, and what will that one cost, a quarter million??


    Well, in Germany the price for a Modena was 128k/136k (6speed/F1), 996 turbo is 129k, turbo S 142k (GT2 is 185k BTW). An F430 F1 is 146000 Euro (139k as 6-speed). Expect the new 997tt to be near that price. If there will be a Challenge Stradale, I'll expect it to cost between 175k and 180k. So that's all within one area.

    Feb 11, 2005 1:56:08 PM

    69bossnine
    Rennteam Pro
    69bossnine
    Loc: FL, USA , United States
    Posts: 2028, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 27, 2005
    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    In the U.S., the Modena is substantially more expensive than the 996TT, by approximately $60K U.S. And another "engineering achievement" that Porsche I believe still has the market cornered on is building incredibly capable sports cars that are a pleasure to drive on a daily full-time basis. I've had the opportunity of driving a 360 Modena, and it's an amazing car, but I can only imagine owning one as a weekend toy. With a 911, it seems to fit into everyday life like a good pair of blue jeans. I can't put into words why that is, but I think this is in large part why the Porsche is so special and so unique compared to the exotics that it runs neck to neck with on the racetrack. Actually, I would be the 1st to admit that the 911 was in need of more "juice" in the 996 era, and that was a big reason I held out and didn't buy. I didn't want to spring the dough for a turbo. But with the 997S, I feel I've got enough power to suit. I realize that there are more powerful machines out there, but when you analyze them, you realize that all the power on paper isn't always translating to the stopwatch. The Lambo isn't really that damn fast, and alot of the power gets soaked up by all the parasitic drag of its AWD. In a new 997, when you're running the 1/4 mile in the middle-12's with an n/a flat 6 engine only displacing 3.8L, I'm telling you, that's amazing. The new Turbo I'm certain will outrun the 430 and the Gallardo. So what's the beef. Bragging rights on horsepower figures printed on paper?

    Feb 11, 2005 4:46:02 PM

    MKW
    Rennteam Pro
    MKW
    Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , United States
    Posts: 2491, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 22, 2002
    Reply to: ben, lj

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rumour Update

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    [

    Isn't that called a GT2 and didn't it sell horribly in the US (Porsche's largest market)?



    No - the GT2 came with two seats, no stability control and a price tag that most local dealers told me from day 1 was $50K too high and would be it's downfall and they were right.
    I'm talking about a wished for RWD 997 Turbo priced a few $K below the AWD , 150 lighter and hopefully with the full complement ofAWD 997 Turbo luxe features , rear seats, all the electronic nannies including active differential to handle all that power going only to one axle and retaining stabilty yaw control - you know - a RWD version that I think will better please the people who have knocked the AWD version as being too clinically competent but lacking that edge w/o losing what the GT2 took away. Basically the same set of " driving diapers" the new F430 has . That's what I'd get . Who needs AWD in California , esp since most of us have several other cars for the really bad weather and the little bit of extra front grip is actually a negative to many enthusiasts vs the Ferrari V8 type cars. .
     
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