Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: DSG Gear - Page1

Feb 7, 2005 4:47:15 PM

neunelf: Senior; Loc: Switzerland; Posts: 610, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 4, 2003

DSG Gear

Today I've heard from a Porsche dealer that the new DSG Gear will

1. reduce average fuel consumption
2. provide faster acceleration
3. be available around Sept/Oct 2005

Has anyone heard credible rumors about the performance of the DSG? Most Ferrari customers seem to prefer the F1 over manual gear.

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Feb 7, 2005 8:19:48 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21149, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: neunelf

Re: DSG Gear

The single-clutch Ferrari F1 sequential is not faster than a manual in acceleration but the DSG has two clutches and in theory can be faster than even a manual, in fact that is the case in the VW/Audi DSG. But we will have to see how Porsche develops it. Though considering they were the first ones that invented a double-clucth sequential in rthe first place for their Groupe C 956/962 racecars in the 80's (PDK transmission), and that they are sportier oriented and talented than VW/Audi, you can expect the best sequential transmission in the market IMO. The Audi/VW DSG is already one full step ahead of the Ferrari F1 and BMW SMG sequentials, so imagine Porsche's version

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Feb 7, 2005 9:22:53 PM

neunelf: Senior; Loc: Switzerland; Posts: 610, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 4, 2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: DSG Gear

You have ordered a 997S, right? So you decided not to wait for the DSG?

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Feb 7, 2005 10:37:21 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21149, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: neunelf

Re: DSG Gear

Yes. While the DSG is going to be a great sequential, I'm personally very fond of working the clucth and the shift. Even though the DSG is superior to the manual since it allows the driver to concentrate more on the rest of the driving by not having to worry about the gears, and also probably even faster accelerating than the manual by fractions of a second, not to mention more confortable in day to day commute (its not even as jerky as the single-clucth sequentials), I'm afraid the experience will be less involving and less fun, which is the most important part of these cars for me. The clutch is an integral part of driving for me. So even if it was available, I would still go for the manual myself. But this is very personal choice and I can understand why others would opt for the DSG, and find it a better choice for them, it has many advantages and can even be just as fun for some people also. And I believe the Porsche's DSG, or should I say PDK, is going to raise the bar in auto-transmission for all other manufacturers.

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Feb 7, 2005 10:55:26 PM

med: Pilot; Loc: London; Posts: 394, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 4, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: DSG Gear

Interesting stuff, I have always loved my SMG2 in the M3 and would welcome a twin clutch version in maybe my next PO.
Acceleration might be better but to achieve, you usually have to launch, which IMO is very over the top for normal driving.
Unfortunately when the box is available, owners that have ordered trip may suffer some extra depreciation.

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Feb 7, 2005 10:56:49 PM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: med

Re: DSG Gear

tiptronic will be obsolete when DSG comes into the mainstream

DSG on automatic mode is vastly superior to normal torque converters in smoothness, performance, speed, economy, etc.

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Feb 8, 2005 2:45:24 AM

manu: Junior; Loc: spain; Posts: 56, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 7, 2005; Reply to: Moogle

Re: DSG Gear

if you really want drive you must have the complet set of controls if not, you only will have a quiet sunny walk

apart personal preferences, am i the only who think that dsg or similar will never be faster and, of course sportier than manual one?
data oferred by audi/vw are, for me, a marketing plan
if checking dsg/manual, the first show best performance, then i'll have no doubt that vw people had castrated the manual one in order to publicise the dsg
looking forward the weight of double secondary axel tree of transmisions, double clutch, electronic management and all that this system involves( yes the weight of clutch pedal is saved

)think about the resistance of transmisions ...................
dsg is a good option, well, the best option for anybody lazy who likes this type of gear, to motorway travel, city and if you want for eventual "play station" sportie driving...

it's good to porsche has the best type of ""automatic"" changing and offer it for base carrera, turbo.......
but the authentic sport driving, on my view, must be with manual gear and if porsche people works on good manual changes, the cars what mount this will be faster than any automatic, robotic, double clutch or whatever one

greets

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Feb 8, 2005 2:59:04 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: manu

Re: DSG Gear

If you want an easy to drive and commute in a sedan like the M3 get their version called SMG.

If you want a sports sedan, get the M3 with a manual.

IOW, if you almost want an automatic but don't want the reduction in HP get the SMG.

Now for the 997:

Would be really hard to get DSG in the Carerra UNLESS you needed it for commuting or the wife.

Unlike the M3 the 911 is a sports car and "should" have a manual. More fun to drive rowing thru the gears.

Again, if you otherwise can't get the Carerra without an automatic because of wife or commute: the DSG is a frickin Godsend!!!

SMG ("DSG") is a total blast in the M3!

ALL BETS ARE OFF IF:

Porsche's DSG turns out to be lightyears ahead of BMWs. The Current SMG II is still a bit clunky at times. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Porsche's version is far superior. If so: it would be hard NOT to get DSG in a Carerra

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Feb 8, 2005 5:25:27 AM

MKW: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , United States; Posts: 2491, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 22, 2002; Reply to: MMD

Re: DSG Gear

I've been rowing a gear box for 33 years ( 19 of those with 5 911s ). My next 911 Turbo will have DSG , as the econocar clutch feel and vague cable operated shifter in the current 996 Turbo is not sporty AT ALL.
Full throttle lightning shifts on a DSG 911 Turbo w/o lifting with the turbo boost never dropping - yummm... can't wait. Will be a totally new and different 911 driving experience for me no matter how much the current one can be tweaked or modded , because of the transmission alone

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Feb 8, 2005 9:13:03 AM

TEE: Veteran; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 929, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 5, 2003; Reply to: MKW

Re: DSG Gear

I heard that the new GT3 will come with DSG

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Feb 8, 2005 12:46:51 PM

Ed J: Pilot; Loc: London; Posts: 407, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 4, 2004; Reply to: TEE

Re: DSG Gear

I had DSG on my last car (an Audi TT 3.2). Fantastic gear box and SO easy to drive fast. You don't need launch control to fly away from the lights either. Also, you tend not to change gear manually because the computer does it so much better (in Sports mode) so you are effectively driving an automatic, albeit a very good one.

However, it was like playing on a Playstation. It just didn't feel like driving. I SO much prefer the manual on my 997.

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Feb 9, 2005 6:56:26 PM

gian61: Co-Pilot; Loc: Pavia , Italy; Posts: 189, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 23, 2005; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: DSG Gear

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
The clutch is an integral part of driving for me. and can even be just as fun for some people also.

It's mine same opinion!
-

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Feb 9, 2005 9:09:35 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: DSG Gear

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Yes. While the DSG is going to be a great sequential, I'm personally very fond of working the clucth and the shift. Even though the DSG is superior to the manual since it allows the driver to concentrate more on the rest of the driving by not having to worry about the gears, and also probably even faster accelerating than the manual by fractions of a second, not to mention more confortable in day to day commute (its not even as jerky as the single-clucth sequentials), I'm afraid the experience will be less involving and less fun, which is the most important part of these cars for me. The clutch is an integral part of driving for me. So even if it was available, I would still go for the manual myself. But this is very personal choice and I can understand why others would opt for the DSG, and find it a better choice for them, it has many advantages and can even be just as fun for some people also. And I believe the Porsche's DSG, or should I say PDK, is going to raise the bar in auto-transmission for all other manufacturers.

Also, DSG will be brand new technology for Porsche (at least in serial production). I would never buy it for the first 12-18 months. Others shall do the testing work

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Feb 9, 2005 9:49:29 PM

crayphile: Rennteam Pro; Loc: England , United Kingdom; Posts: 2861, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2004; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: DSG Gear

[quote Also, DSG will be brand new technology for Porsche (at least in serial production). I would never buy it for the first 12-18 months. Others shall do the testing work

Happy to oblige

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