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    Feb 7, 2005 12:05:40 PM

    Ron (Houston)M
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    The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    Autocar (c)

    The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    Ferrari is pondering a product revolution and has asked four of the worlds' most respected car design schools to come up with some radical ideas. Britain's Coventry School of Art and Design is one of the institutes selected, along with Pasadena's Art Centre, the European Institute of Design in Turin and the Tokyo Communication Arts School. Coventry students have already met up in the UK with Frank Stephenson, Ferrari-Maserati's design chief.

    Ferrari's brief for the students involved poses a profound choice for the company: 'Should Ferrari continue to develop its new products along the same lines [as the current front and mid-engine range] or can new automotive concepts...be proposed?' Ferrari specifically excludes proposals for 'special models' (F50, Enzo right) but wants ideas for new types that could be added to the current line-up or even replace the existing range.

    Feb 7, 2005 4:13:48 PM

    SSNISTR
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    Reply to: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    Yeah I read about this, it's simply a design exercise....
    If anythuing, it's a good thing.

    Feb 7, 2005 4:38:44 PM

    Ron (Houston)M
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    Reply to: SSNISTR

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    From what I understood there seems to be an upcoming Dino-like cheaper below F430 to generate more ravenue. I would assume something in AMV8 range 3000/yr for exclusivity and around 100k for affordibility.

    I like the idea .

    Feb 7, 2005 4:54:20 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    From what I understood there seems to be an upcoming Dino-like cheaper below F430 to generate more ravenue. I would assume something in AMV8 range 3000/yr for exclusivity and around 100k for affordibility.

    I like the idea .



    I agree. I believe they were hoping the Maserati would fit the bill but it has fallen on its face.The AMV8 is going to make a lot of manufacturers take notice. I understand there is a three year wait for the car.

    Feb 7, 2005 4:54:33 PM

    farina
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    Reply to: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    I like the idea too! Look again at my vision for a new
    little ferrari.

    Feb 7, 2005 5:28:50 PM

    Patriek
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    Reply to: farina

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    I HATE the idea of a "little" Ferrari, I think the F430 is little enough
    Think about the exclusivity !!!

    remember what Porche did with the 924 .... it destroyed their image !

    IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD A NEW FERRARI ......... SORRY, ( there is always the second hand marked) !!

    FERRARI MUST KEEP THEIR EXCLUSIVITY !!!!!

    Feb 7, 2005 7:26:09 PM

    jecey
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    Reply to: Patriek

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    Hi Ron,
    I am so surprised about all we can read here and there about Ferrari.
    As every good company, Ferrari is just making a market analysis to know if they should change something in the design or the perception, or simply to get new tendencies ... why to make a big story about that ?
    For me, you should modulate your subject title : "the end of Ferrari ...blablabla". (is the magazine who launched this title ?)
    First Ferrari is existing since so many years. Never this brand will end.

    Second, yes, maybe Ferrari is making losses. And what ?
    It's normal since they made lot of investments (in the new factory, wind tunnels, foundery, ... F1). It's normal.

    And to finish, Ferrari has not the capacity to produce this little car. You all know (especialy you guys from the US) that they can't produce according to the demand. If they make such a car, Maserati will assemble it.

    For me the F430 price is just in the market price. It's the price for the performance and the exclusivity. Why should Ferrari change this ? If they want, they can make 3 times more F430 for the emergent markets like Russia and China.

    Feb 7, 2005 8:16:00 PM

    Patriek
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    Reply to: jecey

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    Quote:
    jecey said:
    Hi Ron,
    I am so surprised about all we can read here and there about Ferrari.
    As every good company, Ferrari is just making a market analysis to know if they should change something in the design or the perception, or simply to get new tendencies ... why to make a big story about that ?
    For me, you should modulate your subject title : "the end of Ferrari ...blablabla". (is the magazine who launched this title ?)
    First Ferrari is existing since so many years. Never this brand will end.

    Second, yes, maybe Ferrari is making losses. And what ?
    It's normal since they made lot of investments (in the new factory, wind tunnels, foundery, ... F1). It's normal.

    And to finish, Ferrari has not the capacity to produce this little car. You all know (especialy you guys from the US) that they can't produce according to the demand. If they make such a car, Maserati will assemble it.

    For me the F430 price is just in the market price. It's the price for the performance and the exclusivity. Why should Ferrari change this ? If they want, they can make 3 times more F430 for the emergent markets like Russia and China.



    Voila,

    Feb 7, 2005 8:25:45 PM

    Ron (Houston)M
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    Reply to: jecey

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    Dear jecey,

    The context was taken out this article with no alteration.

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/news_article.asp?na_id=213391

    No need to get defensive regarding Ferrari, I love Ferraris myself but I guess it gets to a point that when a company needs to survive on its own they need to take some drastic measures.

    Look at Porsche, did anyone ever imagine Porsche would make a SUV? but financially it boosted the company and helped them to stay independant.

    In Ferrari's case if they decide to make a Sports car that would fall under F430 price-wise, it would absolutely help them generate more ravenue plus it'll be a Sports car not a SUV or a Sedan, just my 2 cents .

    Feb 7, 2005 8:37:44 PM

    FutchM
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    Reply to: jecey

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    Quote:
    For me the F430 price is just in the market price. It's the price for the performance and the exclusivity. Why should Ferrari change this ? If they want, they can make 3 times more F430 for the emergent markets like Russia and China.



    I am not sure Jecey.
    I have been to Maranello and I also know that the factory is very small, I doubt Ferrari can push the output over 4,500 a year.
    And coming back to the 430 availability issue in the States, one of the reasons could be the expansion of the asian market.
    But I don't think Ferrari can make three times more 430 than current output, or of course they could, but waiting lists would be hugely extended IMO.
    Ferrari will never be in trouble anyway, even under the helm of GM, it will be fine. Although that's very unlikely to happen now as GM is pulling out of the Fiat deal (and rightly so).
    Whether they make money is another matter, Fiat is on the verge of bankrupcy, even the Italians don't buy Fiat cars anymore, and the possible IPO of Maserati is the proof that funds are urgently needed.
    But in the end, as long they have the F1, it's fine I guess.

    Feb 7, 2005 9:28:17 PM

    Patriek
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    Reply to: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    Dear jecey,

    The context was taken out this article with no alteration.

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/news_article.asp?na_id=213391

    No need to get defensive regarding Ferrari, I love Ferraris myself but I guess it gets to a point that when a company needs to survive on its own they need to take some drastic measures.

    Look at Porsche, did anyone ever imagine Porsche would make a SUV? but financially it boosted the company and helped them to stay independant.

    In Ferrari's case if they decide to make a Sports car that would fall under F430 price-wise, it would absolutely help them generate more ravenue plus it'll be a Sports car not a SUV or a Sedan, just my 2 cents .



    If they make something "else" that should fall under F430, then I hope it will be a nice S(port)UV, for daily use. ... I will sure buy one !, but not a sports car with the 'same' exclusivity of a Porsche

    Feb 7, 2005 9:33:26 PM

    farina
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    Reply to: Patriek

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    There is an interesting link for us:
    http://www.carrozzeriacastagna.com/04-3_.htm
    I Think the front of the rosselini-concept is nearly perfect for a new classical, modern and also timeless look.

    Feb 7, 2005 9:46:49 PM

    Patriek
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    Reply to: farina

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    Quote:
    farina said:
    There is an interesting link for us:
    http://www.carrozzeriacastagna.com/04-3_.htm
    I Think the front of the rosselini-concept is nearly perfect for a new classical, modern and also timeless look.



    Hi Farina,

    Are you interested in drawing a Ferrari SUV ??

    Patriek

    Feb 7, 2005 10:46:02 PM

    Moogle
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    Reply to: Patriek

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    Quote:
    Patriek (jennyz) said:
    Hi Farina,

    Are you interested in drawing a Ferrari SUV ??

    Patriek



    oh i'd LOVE to see that one...

    Feb 8, 2005 8:50:59 AM

    farina
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    Reply to: Patriek

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    I'm interested in all things which concern sports cars...
    But i think ferrari should be the classic sports car company we love so much.
    It's hard for me to imagine that ferrari will develop an SUV. In this part Porsche has much more experience (think about the 959 and Paris-Dakar).
    IMO the idea of a ferrari below the F430 is more realistic although this car must be fixed around hundred thousend Euro to keep the exclusivity. And Aston Martin keeps it with the new AMV8 Vantage too!

    Feb 8, 2005 9:04:23 AM

    farina
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    Reply to: farina

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    And as far as i know ferrari has given up the idea of the all-wheel drive (during the F430 development) because they think that a ferrari will not be driven in snow!
    So why should they develop an SUV?

    Feb 8, 2005 9:46:29 AM

    jecey
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    Reply to: FutchM

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Quote:
    For me the F430 price is just in the market price. It's the price for the performance and the exclusivity. Why should Ferrari change this ? If they want, they can make 3 times more F430 for the emergent markets like Russia and China.



    I am not sure Jecey.
    I have been to Maranello and I also know that the factory is very small, I doubt Ferrari can push the output over 4,500 a year.
    And coming back to the 430 availability issue in the States, one of the reasons could be the expansion of the asian market.
    But I don't think Ferrari can make three times more 430 than current output, or of course they could, but waiting lists would be hugely extended IMO.
    Ferrari will never be in trouble anyway, even under the helm of GM, it will be fine. Although that's very unlikely to happen now as GM is pulling out of the Fiat deal (and rightly so).
    Whether they make money is another matter, Fiat is on the verge of bankrupcy, even the Italians don't buy Fiat cars anymore, and the possible IPO of Maserati is the proof that funds are urgently needed.
    But in the end, as long they have the F1, it's fine I guess.




    Fanch,

    Sorry, I meant "sell" and not "make".
    We know they are limited in capacity.
    They can sell 3 times what they produce.
    I look like I am on my defensive side, is true. This car is a myth ... and my heart squeezes when someone attacks, especialy journalists, who only wants to sell their name.

    Feb 8, 2005 9:48:23 AM

    jecey
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    jecey
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    Reply to: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    Dear jecey,

    The context was taken out this article with no alteration.

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/news_article.asp?na_id=213391

    No need to get defensive regarding Ferrari, I love Ferraris myself but I guess it gets to a point that when a company needs to survive on its own they need to take some drastic measures.

    Look at Porsche, did anyone ever imagine Porsche would make a SUV? but financially it boosted the company and helped them to stay independant.

    In Ferrari's case if they decide to make a Sports car that would fall under F430 price-wise, it would absolutely help them generate more ravenue plus it'll be a Sports car not a SUV or a Sedan, just my 2 cents .

    SHAME ON AUTOCAR .... or maybe it is what we call "british sense of humour"

    Feb 8, 2005 3:15:13 PM

    racerx
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    Reply to: jecey

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    There is NOTHING that limits 430 or any other vehicle production at ferrari outside of Ferrari's Raison D'etre - artificially imposed exclusivity.

    If ferrari operated in the real world and had to make a profit as a car company they could and would produce more cars than demand exists. But then the price would have to drop, the secondary market would go to hell etc. Imagine rebates on f-cars.

    There is no shortage of steel, concrete, or willing workers in northern italy. There is only the knowledge that without artificial caps on production the mystique would evaporate!

    Tom

    Feb 8, 2005 6:34:12 PM

    farina
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    Reply to: jecey

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    You've got it!:! But don't tell it outside this forum!

    Feb 9, 2005 4:01:40 AM

    vtrader
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    Reply to: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    From what I understood there seems to be an upcoming Dino-like cheaper below F430 to generate more ravenue. I would assume something in AMV8 range 3000/yr for exclusivity and around 100k for affordibility.

    I like the idea .


    If they build a Dino type of car, will it use a Fiat engine also?

    Feb 9, 2005 9:51:12 AM

    Lars997M
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    Reply to: farina

    Re: The end of Ferrari as we know it?

    Farina... this is your chance!

    Send your pictures to Ferrari!!!!
     
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