Crown

E-Tron is the best looking performance EV. To many that is the most important thing. Just think of it, if someone is coming from a 7 series or S-Class any of these are going to feel supercar fast. The difference between 3 seconds or 3.5 seconds to 60 is meaningless, looks are not meaningless and the E-Tron looks sexy but normal sexy in the way the Taycan doesn't. The Tesla is long in the tooth and handsome but no more than that. 

Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

Whoopsy:

This Audi e-Tron GT is going to do what no Tesla can do, stealing Taycan sales. from Porsche.

I will be expecting a optioned RS e-Tron GT to be under the price of a optioned Taycan turbo. 

Why would I pick the Porsche when the Audi is pretty much the same car and has a better interior. I mean, it has buttons!!! 

I think I am going to pre-order the RS.

If you own VAG stock why would you care if the divisional profit goes to Audi or to Porsche? It is the same company after all on the basis of consolidated statements. Most high sales volume Porsches are rebadged Audis anyway.

wantone:

Whoopsy:

This Audi e-Tron GT is going to do what no Tesla can do, stealing Taycan sales. from Porsche.

I will be expecting a optioned RS e-Tron GT to be under the price of a optioned Taycan turbo. 

Why would I pick the Porsche when the Audi is pretty much the same car and has a better interior. I mean, it has buttons!!! 

I think I am going to pre-order the RS.

If you own VAG stock why would you care if the divisional profit goes to Audi or to Porsche? It is the same company after all on the basis of consolidated statements. Most high sales volume Porsches are rebadged Audis anyway.

Divisional REVENUE. Not profit.

They have differences in cost per car, and Porsche has the highest profit margin per car. So if you steal the sale from Porsche and transfer that to Audi, VAG as a group earn less profit per car. 

Audi's job is to steal sales from Mercedes and BMWs and the like, not stealing from cousins. Piech made that mistake, his VW steal from Audi and his Audi steals from Lamborghini and Porsche. That's not healthy.

And not quite, the Audis and Porsches are on the corporate MLB platform, so neither is a rebadged of the other. So a 'rebadge' of the parent's product. Or if one is trying to split hair, the Cayenne sits in the middle of the range, so one could say the Audi took the Cayenne and dress it down to be Audis, and Lamborghini and Bentley dressed it up to be theirs. 

It is common knowledge and I am sure inside the group they view it that way: inline engine in front of front axle and 4WD is the original Audi Quattro platform architecture that defined the brand. Similar, transverse engine with FWD is the VW platform architecture (from original Golf). Rear engine behind rear axle is the original Porsche platform architecture from original Porsche cars (that obviously derived from the VW beetle designed by Porsche).

If you put the Bentley on the lift it is an Audi underneath.

PS profit margin per division can easily change depending on the transfer of cash between the groups. It has nothing to do with the overall profitability of the group but it makes a difference on the divisional managers profit targets.

I try to simplify things it makes life easier.

wantone:

If you put the Bentley on the lift it is an Audi underneath.

More like Touareg...with VW stamps on multiple parts. Same for the Urus.

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

Gnil:

German cars are not getting that with EV power is too easy and cheap. They can't bank on that. That worked with ICE engines, but the fundamentals are now different. An adjustment will not work. They need a revolution.. 

--

 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

 

Yep but unfortunately I think something different will happen (I mentioned it before): German car manufacturers are going to ask for a speed limit in Germany, so their cars get a decent range. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

JoeRockhead:

Which one would you take home

The Hellcat?  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

Somewhat irrelevant comparison since the bottom two vehicles are on the sunset phase.  The Dodge may be fast but its questionable build quality limits its usefulness.  The exterior body panels start to vibrate when speeds exceed 140 mph.  The BMW M3 is updated and tests should happen soon, if not already tested by the major motoring publications.  

Returning to the constant Tesla versus the Volkswagen Group EVs comparisons, Tesla, in terms of architecture, is more a follower than leader when compared with Porsche Taycan and Audi e-tron GT.  As everyone knows, the Porsche and Audi utilizes a 800 volt battery pack configuration which offers significant packaging advantages over  the 400 volt approach taken by Tesla.  However, what many miss is that Tesla, which started with the 18650 battery form factor has developed larger and larger form factors from the 2170 used in the Model 3/Y to the recently announced 4680.  These changes reduce the number of cells required and is approaching Volkswagen Group's pouch battery architecture with less than 200 separate cells.  Every battery cell in the pack represents a potential failure and adds cost to the battery.  Tesla has finally realized that relatively late in its product development process.  The revised Model S/X hasn't switched to Tesla's newer cell form factors because that would have required an entire redesign of the car rather than a simply revision.  

The shortcomings of Tesla's approaches will become more and more apparent as Volkswagen Group releases more product-Audi announced it will introduce a new EV in the compact space in April-and with new EV product over the next year from General Motors and Toyota.  It won't remain the number one producer of EV for long.

wantone:

It is common knowledge and I am sure inside the group they view it that way: inline engine in front of front axle and 4WD is the original Audi Quattro platform architecture that defined the brand. Similar, transverse engine with FWD is the VW platform architecture (from original Golf). Rear engine behind rear axle is the original Porsche platform architecture from original Porsche cars (that obviously derived from the VW beetle designed by Porsche).

If you put the Bentley on the lift it is an Audi underneath.

PS profit margin per division can easily change depending on the transfer of cash between the groups. It has nothing to do with the overall profitability of the group but it makes a difference on the divisional managers profit targets.

I try to simplify things it makes life easier.

 

Go google MLB platform. 

It's the VAG corporate platform that's not specific to any one brand. But pretty much all Audis are on it, so if you want to look at it as an Audi platform feel free to do so.

Most of the relays and stuff however will have a VW part number. Some will have Audi branding, even on Porsche and Bentley.

Nico in Audi RS e-tron GT versus Formula E car.  https://youtu.be/ezeRN7Ma4CY

CGX car nut:

Nico in Audi RS e-tron GT versus Formula E car.  https://youtu.be/ezeRN7Ma4CY

Wow, EV's have moved on so quick 

Cheers 

throt

"I Have Done It!".

991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

991 GT3.2 pick up April/May 2018. ( Hairy Chest Spec ).

Vauxhall Zafira 1.6 Exclusive pick up June 2013. ( Shit Box )

Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.

CGX car nut:

Somewhat irrelevant comparison since the bottom two vehicles are on the sunset phase.  The Dodge may be fast but its questionable build quality limits its usefulness.  The exterior body panels start to vibrate when speeds exceed 140 mph.  The BMW M3 is updated and tests should happen soon, if not already tested by the major motoring publications.  

Returning to the constant Tesla versus the Volkswagen Group EVs comparisons, Tesla, in terms of architecture, is more a follower than leader when compared with Porsche Taycan and Audi e-tron GT.  As everyone knows, the Porsche and Audi utilizes a 800 volt battery pack configuration which offers significant packaging advantages over  the 400 volt approach taken by Tesla.  However, what many miss is that Tesla, which started with the 18650 battery form factor has developed larger and larger form factors from the 2170 used in the Model 3/Y to the recently announced 4680.  These changes reduce the number of cells required and is approaching Volkswagen Group's pouch battery architecture with less than 200 separate cells.  Every battery cell in the pack represents a potential failure and adds cost to the battery.  Tesla has finally realized that relatively late in its product development process.  The revised Model S/X hasn't switched to Tesla's newer cell form factors because that would have required an entire redesign of the car rather than a simply revision.  

The shortcomings of Tesla's approaches will become more and more apparent as Volkswagen Group releases more product-Audi announced it will introduce a new EV in the compact space in April-and with new EV product over the next year from General Motors and Toyota.  It won't remain the number one producer of EV for long.

It is a shame that the 4680 cells are not going to be used until the S Plaid+. And perhaps the high end Cybertruck And the roadster for now. Once the single front and rear casting are complete for all models to would suspect the 4680 may still only be used in the models needing the extra range and performance.  Some other type of cobalt free battery will be used to save money. The giant factor being that the batteries will be cobalt free.  800 vs 400 volt is an interesting debate. Saves money on cables and weight but does not squeeze power into batteries quicker.  Cobalt free batteries on the other hand are a big plus. 
It is still early in Tesla’s lifecycle and their ability to adapt quickly when required and s hard for the others to match. Keep in mind while they face a transition from one type of battery to another the others are transitioning from ICE to battery. So if you think transitions are difficult you may want to keep that one in mind. Not to mention transitioning dealers and profit streams like oil changes. 

throt:

CGX car nut:

Nico in Audi RS e-tron GT versus Formula E car.  https://youtu.be/ezeRN7Ma4CY

Wow, EV's have moved on so quick 

Cheers 

So given the numbers and how close that was the model 3 perf might have won.  But let’s be real. 1/8 mile is short - but a decent example of red light street racing. 😎

I want more videos of Nicos EV hyper car he ordered. 

Keep deluding yourself.  The Model S Plaid+ will get a new battery chemistry and not the new cell form factor.  

CGX car nut:

Keep deluding yourself.  The Model S Plaid+ will get a new battery chemistry and not the new cell form factor.  

What is your problem? I don’t t even understand what you are accusing me of this time. Geeez. It is common knowledge that the plaid + will get the new form factor.   But how does that give you reason to say I am deluding myself. I am not some boogie man and if wanted to I could post endless positive reviews and videos but ...  if I say anything at all I’m delusional for some mysterious reason.  What is your point again?  That we should not buy Tesla or that I am somehow plotting to lie to everyone here about my car ownership?  

Refreshingly unabashedly Audi but with a large battery and electric motors.  This, in the context of the Taycan, which is a wonderful car, but the Porsche tries too much to emulate elements of a Tesla.  
 

Over the past few weeks, besides goading RC over his diet, one has followed the numerous reviews of the Volkswagen ID.4.  Almost all reviewers of commented on the ordinariness of the Volkswagen, and now the Audi, when compared with ICE vehicles. To many consumers this is much more desirous than quirkiness found in the competition.  This is exactly what Geoffrey Moore wrote about a couple of decades ago in his excellent tech adoption book, Crossing the Chasm.  

CGX car nut:

Refreshingly unabashedly Audi but with a large battery and electric motors.  This, in the context of the Taycan, which is a wonderful car, but the Porsche tries too much to emulate elements of a Tesla.  
 

Over the past few weeks, besides goading RC over his diet, one has followed the numerous reviews of the Volkswagen ID.4.  Almost all reviewers of commented on the ordinariness of the Volkswagen, and now the Audi, when compared with ICE vehicles. To many consumers this is much more desirous than quirkiness found in the competition.  This is exactly what Geoffrey Moore wrote about a couple of decades ago in his excellent tech adoption book, Crossing the Chasm.  

There may be some good lease rates available. Though the ones I see are for very low mileage over 36 months. 

Is this on the same platform as the taycan?

Yes. 

more than just platform....it basically is a Taycan

intouch1:

more than just platform....it basically is a Taycan

Yep and not much cheaper either.  I do not see how this car is going to be successful in Germany.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

RC:

intouch1:

more than just platform....it basically is a Taycan

Yep and not much cheaper either.  I do not see how this car is going to be successful in Germany.

Me neither 

https://www.electrive.com/2021/03/16/audi-abandons-combustion-engine-development/

JoeRockhead:

https://www.electrive.com/2021/03/16/audi-abandons-combustion-engine-development/

 

I am not surprised, Mercedes is already in this boat (as far as I know) and BMW will probably (have to) follow.

Bentley is going fully electric, VW and Audi are going fully electric, I guess Lamborghini will go hybrid for a while before they turn to fully electric as well, same goes to Porsche. This is the future I'm afraid, it seems VW Group finally made their decision in which direction to go.

I expect a speed limit in Germany within this decade. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

RC:

JoeRockhead:

https://www.electrive.com/2021/03/16/audi-abandons-combustion-engine-development/

I expect a speed limit in Germany within this decade. 

No more 300kph on the autobahn for you then  

throt

"I Have Done It!".

991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

991 GT3.2 pick up April/May 2018. ( Hairy Chest Spec ).

Vauxhall Zafira 1.6 Exclusive pick up June 2013. ( Shit Box )

Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.

RC:

 

I expect a speed limit in Germany within this decade. 

And that will start the death of high end German cars and with it a big chunk of the German economy.

waiting for PDK:

RC:

 

I expect a speed limit in Germany within this decade. 

And that will start the death of high end German cars and with it a big chunk of the German economy.

I seriously doubt this. In fact I see limits being controlled by computers in the cars and tickets to be issued automatically. After this everyone will lose their license.  For a week - then popular revolt will de- fund traffic cops all over the world and speed limits will be unenforceable. 
Do I need a sarcasm warning?

but seriously - the day will come soon when one high speed death prompts some woke outrage and looking back on no speed limits will be like recalling slavery. So barbaric. Grrrr