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Jan 30, 2005 9:41:05 PM
- Carrera_GTcrazy
- Junior
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- Loc: Montreal, Canada
- Posts: 121, Gallery
- Registered on: Jan 27, 2005
- Reply to: TC M3
Re: Carrera S vs E46 M3
I assume you mean 997S? well if so the 997S is the superior track car. The M3 sure is a great car and is cheaper, but who wouldnt want a Beauitful carrera S, 0-60 in 3.9 (what RT claimed), porsche claimed 4.6 and the E46 M3 is 0-60 in 4.8. But it really is to your preferance. You want a fast car to transport peolpe? The BMW is for you.You want a Fast daily driver for you and another person? the 997S is for you. yes yes there is a back seat, but only a kid or small adult could fit back there comterably.
Jan 30, 2005 10:52:21 PM
- Grant
- Rennteam VIP
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- Loc: Denver, CO , United States
- Posts: 12586, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
- Reply to: Carrera_GTcrazy
Re: Carrera S vs E46 M3
Real-world performance on the street is pretty similar (similar weight and power). The 997S will be a bit faster and the handling will be different (depending on whether you like rear-engined handling - I love it). It comes down to a matter of taste (and money). Drive both and decide what you like. There is a Competition version of the M3 now for extra $4k that gives better handling and braking than the standard car...
Re: Carrera S vs E46 M3
Quote:
TC M3 said:
Carrera S vs E46 M3
How would you guys compare both cars performance wise and in handling also.
Thanks in advance!
Chalk and cheese,
I currently own an M3 E46 and will take delivery of a new C2s in a few weeks, I have test driven the PO twice and was very impressed by the acceleration and handling.
Don't get me wrong, the M3 is a fantastic car that holds a great balance for carrying people with good performance and is probably the best small sports saloon available, but the PO is a pure sports car with some comfort and reliability built in. Its also worth saying that the C2S is faster by 1 second to a 100 mph and that a significant leap in performance.
My M3 will be missed and has been to date the best and most fun car I've owned, for me the PO will be the next level of enjoyment. lots of E46 M3 owners are moving to a C2S.....
a natural progression
Re: Carrera S vs E46 M3
I had an E46 M3 when they first appeared in 2001, ran it for 3 years and just bought a 997S. Let me start by saying that the M3 is a great car, no question. Before the M3 and the 997S I have had 4 porsches (968/968CS/993/Boxster), and I honestly didnt think I'd be buying another porsche because it seemed to me that the other manufacturers had really caught up in terms of performance and handling (I also had a Mitsubishi Evo 6 for a while which was brilliant). Then I looked again when the M3 was getting time for a change - and was so impressed with the 997S that I now have one in the garage.
The M3 is a little bit peaky in its power delivery, when you really rev it there is plenty on tap, but (and this is going to sound a little crazy) it gets a bit tedious after a while having to rev it to get the power out. This is a big area of difference compared to the 997S - which has a lot of low down grunt and doesnt need to be revved to make it go. The M3 has a "sport" button, but I always thought that all it did was adjust the throttle linkage and make the car more edgy and nervous (when you get used to driving with it off most of the time). This is quite different from the 997 sport chrono option (altho I dont have that on my S). DSM or stability control on the M3 is harsh when it kicks in, to the extent that I personally think it causes problems for you if your really pushing on as the power reduction is severe (a friend out driving with me described it as hitting the brakes when it kicked in on high speed corner). Its there to protect you, and some sort of traction control is helpfull with all that power going through the rear wheels but I usually switched it off if I needed to make real progress. One criticism I have always had of Porsche is that the interiors are a bit dull and not screwed together that well (e.g. I bought a brand new 993 in August 1994 and it had a really rattly windscreen seal which was changed eventually as a result of a recall but it made a real mess). The M3 wins hands down on overall quality and interior...until imho the 997 came along. I much prefere the interior of the 997 (and not just because I own one), but it still isnt up to BMW in terms of quality overall (I have some annoying dashboard plastic rattles which are very minor but there nonetheless).
To overall handling - my EVO 6 would have murdered any of the previous porsches Ive had (I was thinking of buying the current EVO 8 as a replacement for the M3 until I dorve a 997). It would also give the M3 a very tough time on any real world road which has gradient and curves (forget the midwest at this point where I recently moved from!). The 997S is the only car Ive driven which (in my hands at least) would beat it hands down, especially in the twisty stuff. I did a "sunday" drive this morning, covered 60 miles of backcountry roads in Northern California, very tight decreasing radius corners, blind crests etc - 997S would easily outpace the EVO or the M3.
The sound that the M3 makes at full tilt is impressive - a true german attack fighter but it is a little mechanical and "Japanese" (think high revs and VTEC type engines) although lowdown in the range it makes for a very quiet drive (below about 4k rpm). The 997 on the other hand sounds much deeper and had a great bass line, at all revs (even more so when you get above 5k rpm). It sounds like a race car than a road car.
So my verdict - if its a sports car you want, get a 997 (S ideally). If you want a car which can comfortably transport 4 adults plus a reasonable amount of luggage (or golf bags) get an M3 or the new M5. They are very very different vehicles so its down to your own preferences and criteria. Hope this helps some.
The M3 is a little bit peaky in its power delivery, when you really rev it there is plenty on tap, but (and this is going to sound a little crazy) it gets a bit tedious after a while having to rev it to get the power out. This is a big area of difference compared to the 997S - which has a lot of low down grunt and doesnt need to be revved to make it go. The M3 has a "sport" button, but I always thought that all it did was adjust the throttle linkage and make the car more edgy and nervous (when you get used to driving with it off most of the time). This is quite different from the 997 sport chrono option (altho I dont have that on my S). DSM or stability control on the M3 is harsh when it kicks in, to the extent that I personally think it causes problems for you if your really pushing on as the power reduction is severe (a friend out driving with me described it as hitting the brakes when it kicked in on high speed corner). Its there to protect you, and some sort of traction control is helpfull with all that power going through the rear wheels but I usually switched it off if I needed to make real progress. One criticism I have always had of Porsche is that the interiors are a bit dull and not screwed together that well (e.g. I bought a brand new 993 in August 1994 and it had a really rattly windscreen seal which was changed eventually as a result of a recall but it made a real mess). The M3 wins hands down on overall quality and interior...until imho the 997 came along. I much prefere the interior of the 997 (and not just because I own one), but it still isnt up to BMW in terms of quality overall (I have some annoying dashboard plastic rattles which are very minor but there nonetheless).
To overall handling - my EVO 6 would have murdered any of the previous porsches Ive had (I was thinking of buying the current EVO 8 as a replacement for the M3 until I dorve a 997). It would also give the M3 a very tough time on any real world road which has gradient and curves (forget the midwest at this point where I recently moved from!). The 997S is the only car Ive driven which (in my hands at least) would beat it hands down, especially in the twisty stuff. I did a "sunday" drive this morning, covered 60 miles of backcountry roads in Northern California, very tight decreasing radius corners, blind crests etc - 997S would easily outpace the EVO or the M3.
The sound that the M3 makes at full tilt is impressive - a true german attack fighter but it is a little mechanical and "Japanese" (think high revs and VTEC type engines) although lowdown in the range it makes for a very quiet drive (below about 4k rpm). The 997 on the other hand sounds much deeper and had a great bass line, at all revs (even more so when you get above 5k rpm). It sounds like a race car than a road car.
So my verdict - if its a sports car you want, get a 997 (S ideally). If you want a car which can comfortably transport 4 adults plus a reasonable amount of luggage (or golf bags) get an M3 or the new M5. They are very very different vehicles so its down to your own preferences and criteria. Hope this helps some.
Re: Carrera S vs E46 M3
im just going to list some pros and cons, since many people have mentioned many other things
ive had serious seat time in a 997S, and i own a E46M3 and a 996 GT3.
the one thing the M3 cannot beat the Porsches on is steering feel, other than that, the brakes provide marginally less feedback.
the m3 is a better value in the sense that it has very usable backseats, a HUGE trunk compared to the 997, not to mention it has that awesome SMG (which is a great compromise , great for backroads carving, yet, hit traffic, and pop it into automatic, ingenious).
as for the person who compared to the M3 to a japanese car, i dont think you've ever driven an m3.
for 50-60k, there is NO better GT/touring car than the M3.
ive had serious seat time in a 997S, and i own a E46M3 and a 996 GT3.
the one thing the M3 cannot beat the Porsches on is steering feel, other than that, the brakes provide marginally less feedback.
the m3 is a better value in the sense that it has very usable backseats, a HUGE trunk compared to the 997, not to mention it has that awesome SMG (which is a great compromise , great for backroads carving, yet, hit traffic, and pop it into automatic, ingenious).
as for the person who compared to the M3 to a japanese car, i dont think you've ever driven an m3.
for 50-60k, there is NO better GT/touring car than the M3.
Re: Carrera S vs E46 M3
Suggest you open your mind and try driving a Japanese or European spec Evo or Sti before passing judgement. If you have, we can beg to differ on opinion.
Im not a particular fan of either, but dynamically they are very capable vehicles. Sounds to me like your jumping to a conclusion without ever having driven either....
Im not a particular fan of either, but dynamically they are very capable vehicles. Sounds to me like your jumping to a conclusion without ever having driven either....
Jan 31, 2005 5:19:13 PM
- nicholas j
- Senior
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- Loc: Upstate New York , United States
- Posts: 646, Gallery
- Registered on: Dec 23, 2004
- Reply to: Moogle
Re: Carrera S vs E46 M3
I went from a Lexus 400SC, to a 740i to an M3 convertible. While the Lexus was incredibly quiet and had a great Nakamichi stereo, it was boring to drive after three months.The muffler system was as quiet as a sewing machine and the steeing was bland. No road feel.The 740i was a wonderful car and it fit my needs at the time. The M3 takes things to a new level and I absolutely love driving it.When Porsche decided to get rid of the "fried egg" headlights, I took a 997s for a ride. Case closed! Car ordered. March Build and April delivery. Seal Grey, Black leather.And after reading the reviews of those on this board who have already taken delivery, I'm ready! 
Re: Carrera S vs E46 M3
Quote:
Flashman said:
Suggest you open your mind and try driving a Japanese or European spec Evo or Sti before passing judgement. If you have, we can beg to differ on opinion.
Im not a particular fan of either, but dynamically they are very capable vehicles. Sounds to me like your jumping to a conclusion without ever having driven either....
I agree, the Mitsu Evo 8 has better steering than almost any car currently for sale...
Re: Carrera S vs E46 M3
Having also just come from an '02 M3, I agree with your assessment. I liked the thicker steering wheel on the M3. I also loved the "rasp" the exhaust made at WOT, although there were many that weren't so fond of it. I also love the 997S sound even more. Both are great rides!
I liked the thicker steering wheel on the M3. I also loved the "rasp" the exhaust made at WOT, although there were many that weren't so fond of it. I also love the 997S sound even more. Both are great rides!
Feb 1, 2005 5:10:21 PM
- SoCalHoosier
- Veteran
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- Loc: California , United States
- Posts: 896, Gallery
- Registered on: Jun 13, 2003
- Reply to: Fiebru
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