Rennteam 2.0 - ES - Forum - Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series - Page1

27-ene-2005 21:47:58

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Alemania; Posts: 59607, Gallery; Registrado desde: 26-mar-2002

Facelifted BMW 7 Series

I know the 7 Series is no sports car but a lot of sports car owners also own a BMW 7 series as a daily driver, so I thought I'd mention it.
Not much changed on the engine front, there are some enhancements but the most powerful engine, the V12, is still at the same power level. There have been rumours of a 500+ HP 7 Series but it seems: no such thing.

Check for yourself: (the picture showing two cars shows the newer one on the upper picture).
The facelifted 7 Series should be available starting April 2005.

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27-ene-2005 21:48:22

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Alemania; Posts: 59607, Gallery; Registrado desde: 26-mar-2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

2.

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27-ene-2005 21:48:43

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Alemania; Posts: 59607, Gallery; Registrado desde: 26-mar-2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

3.

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27-ene-2005 21:59:34

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , Estados Unidos; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registrado desde: 10-abr-2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

RC you beat me to it

.

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27-ene-2005 22:31:17

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , España; Posts: 21156, Gallery; Registrado desde: 09-feb-2003; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

I though BMW learnt the lesson of the 7-series styling mistake and would correct that in the facelift, instead they did a slightly different version of the same Bangle disaster

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27-ene-2005 22:51:21

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , Estados Unidos; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registrado desde: 10-abr-2002; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

There is no limit for ugliness

. As you said, after few years Bangle and his team managed to come up with uglier design IMO than the original one.

I'm really surprised that BMW sells this crap

.

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27-ene-2005 23:24:52

brunner: Veteran; Loc: E. Europe , Rumania; Posts: 1125, Gallery; Registrado desde: 28-abr-2003; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

HA.
It actually looks OLDER than the previous version.
Now that's an achievement

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28-ene-2005 0:17:42

amazon: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Belgium , Bélgica; Posts: 2110, Gallery; Registrado desde: 05-jul-2004; Reply to: brunner

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

I agree. Just a bit uglier. What Bmw should have done is remove the stupid boot and put one that actually fits on the damn car.

It still looks like Bmw used the boot from another car and glue it to the 7-series.

What I can't understand is how a car with a design like that can be approuved by Bmw and put into production. Don't they asked anyone about the design of a new car before production?

I used to love bmw's. Now, bmw's looks so bad I would not want to be caught dead in one.

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28-ene-2005 1:01:48

TopherV: Veteran; Loc: Orange County, Southern California; Posts: 1121, Gallery; Registrado desde: 29-jul-2003; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
There is no limit for ugliness . As you said, after few years Bangle and his team managed to come up with uglier design IMO than the original one.

I'm really surprised that BMW sells this crap .

OOGLY

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28-ene-2005 1:19:13

nicholas j: Senior; Loc: Upstate New York , Estados Unidos; Posts: 646, Gallery; Registrado desde: 23-dic-2004; Reply to: TopherV

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

I had a '98 740i. TREMENDOUS!! They changed styles and I went to the M3.Loved it until I test drove and now have on order a 997s. Maybe I should send Chris Bangle a thank you note!

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28-ene-2005 6:43:08

MKW: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , Estados Unidos; Posts: 2491, Gallery; Registrado desde: 22-nov-2002; Reply to: nicholas j

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

Funny thing is, those same people knocking the Bangle butt for the past few years will praise the same rear trunk style coming on next year's new S class . On the MBZ boards, they are saying kinder things like " well it's on the ( ugly as hell ) Maybach, so I'll just have to get used to it "

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28-ene-2005 8:32:16

Chris Lo: Senior; Loc: HK , Hong Kong; Posts: 505, Gallery; Registrado desde: 10-sep-2002; Reply to: nicholas j

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

The facelift is worse than the original one.

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28-ene-2005 9:24:43

Bilal: Expert; Loc: Manchester, UK; Posts: 1533, Gallery; Registrado desde: 20-jun-2003; Reply to: Chris Lo

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

The new S-Class should be a market leader. Its not hard to get used to the looks of a Mercedes, better than the hard to swallow lines of current BMW's, over-ambitious styling of Ferrari's, (albeit they are nice) or the one-style historical design philosophy of Porsche...

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28-ene-2005 9:47:38

temm: Rennteam Master; Loc: Oslo , Noruega; Posts: 4122, Gallery; Registrado desde: 24-jun-2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

There's an unbelievable amount of BMW-bashers on this board, no wonder we don't have a BMW Board

I think the facelift looks better than the old one, I'll give them that. And it's now a car I would consider buying in this segment. (But I expect the new S-class to blow it away this fall....)

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28-ene-2005 9:48:32

temm: Rennteam Master; Loc: Oslo , Noruega; Posts: 4122, Gallery; Registrado desde: 24-jun-2003; Reply to: temm

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

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28-ene-2005 9:59:17

Just_me: Co-Pilot; Loc: EU; Posts: 170, Gallery; Registrado desde: 16-nov-2004; Reply to: temm

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

Looking very good. I never like the old E65 but this is a great update. Gorgeous

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28-ene-2005 10:28:04

zzboba: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Germany; Posts: 3115, Gallery; Registrado desde: 08-abr-2002; Reply to: temm

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

Quote:
There's an unbelievable amount of BMW-bashers on this board, no wonder we don't have a BMW Board

erm, i LOVE bangle's BMWs.

BMW is setting the pace, all others are just following.

- bangle BMWs look better they older they get. you have to get used to them, but it works. and they never get boring, from every angle you discover something new.

- parked next to a modern BMW, all audis look boring and all mercs look outdated.

- the next S class will get a 7 series boot, the maybach already has it.

- the next S class cockpit is a rip off of the 7 series cockpit, including some i-drive device and same auto tranny selector lever.

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28-ene-2005 13:20:47

W8MM: Rennteam Master; Loc: Cincinnati, OH , Estados Unidos; Posts: 3998, Gallery; Registrado desde: 08-ago-2003; Reply to: temm

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

Quote:
temm said:
There's an unbelievable amount of BMW-bashers on this board, no wonder we don't have a BMW Board

I think the facelift looks better than the old one, I'll give them that.

Well, I'm not a BMW basher, just a jilted BMW loyalist. Right now is the first time in over 30 years that there is not some sort of BMW in our garage. My wife's BMWCCA membership number has only four digits.

I, too, think that the new 7er design is better looking (or less off-putting) than the current one. But, the combination of their recent design direction and product quality we have experienced from BMW has switched us to only owning cars that Ferdinand Piech has had something to do with over time. Porsches, Audis and a recent Bentley.

Farewell Munich!

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28-ene-2005 13:25:46

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , España; Posts: 21156, Gallery; Registrado desde: 09-feb-2003; Reply to: temm

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

Quote:
temm said:
There's an unbelievable amount of BMW-bashers on this board,

I myself like BMW, much better than their competition such as MB or AUDI, thats why it hurts me so much to see what Bangle et al are over at California are doing with the german company. If it were another company, say Lexus or VW, I couldn't care less. But BMW has always built the more "driver's" car of their class and I love them for it, ever since the E-30 M3's of my childhood.

Everytime I see a "banglelised" BMW I say to myself, what a pity, when will they come to their senses. Luckily, Bangle's damage is only skin deep and does not affect their engines and chasis and still drive better than the equivalent Audi or MB, and thats why they still sell well (I wouldn't sacrifice BMW's driving assets for another car of the competition just becuase of the Bangle design), but still I keep thinking how much better would BMW be now without Bangle?

So, in my case I'm not criticising "BMW cars" I'm criticising that cancer they have in the design depertment. And 99% of the BMW fans are the same way, they love the cars but can't stand what Bangle is doing to their company in design

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28-ene-2005 14:08:26

WF: Co-Pilot; Loc: Holland; Posts: 175, Gallery; Registrado desde: 22-jun-2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
I myself like BMW, much better than their competition such as MB or AUDI, thats why it hurts me so much to see what Bangle et al are over at California are doing with the german company. If it were another company, say Lexus or VW, I couldn't care less. But BMW has always built the more "driver's" car of their class and I love them for it, ever since the E-30 M3's of my childhood.

Everytime I see a "banglelised" BMW I say to myself, what a pity, when will they come to their senses. Luckily, Bangle's damage is only skin deep and does not affect their engines and chasis and still drive better than the equivalent Audi or MB, and thats why they still sell well (I wouldn't sacrifice BMW's driving assets for another car of the competition just becuase of the Bangle design), but still I keep thinking how much better would BMW be now without Bangle?

So, in my case I'm not criticising "BMW cars" I'm criticising that cancer they have in the design depertment. And 99% of the BMW fans are the same way, they love the cars but can't stand what Bangle is doing to their company in design

I fully agree with you Carlos, I owned several BMW since the '80s liked all of them for the way they drove (wonderfully balanced rwd, delicate steering and lovely singing six-cylinder engines) all that put in a charming body with a mix of German and Italian designflavour. With the introduction of the E38 and E39 (previous 5 and 7) they probably got too cautious or conservative designwise because they wanted to continue the huge succes of the previous models. Some boardroom members recognised this and then Bangle came in, got too much freedom and well you know he spoiled the marque.
If you want to know what a proper luxury sportsedan should look like; watch the Maser Quattroporte. I wish it had BMW technique in it.

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28-ene-2005 16:43:56

MKW: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , Estados Unidos; Posts: 2491, Gallery; Registrado desde: 22-nov-2002; Reply to: WF

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

When I see the mid-90s BMWs , they look so stodgy and dated . Interesting that some comments on this thread now knock the car because it looks too traditional like prev 7er ( lights/lower front fascia/rear chunky lamp clusters ) at the same time they pine for " how they used to look ". To me, the main problem with the new 7 has never been the rear, but was and remains the rainbow arc of the roof in side view- makes the car look turtle like - heavy vs sleek which belies it's driving dynamics vs the competition. .

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29-ene-2005 8:23:23

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Alemania; Posts: 12682, Gallery; Registrado desde: 11-abr-2002; Reply to: temm

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

Quote:
temm said:
There's an unbelievable amount of BMW-bashers on this board, no wonder we don't have a BMW Board

I think the facelift looks better than the old one, I'll give them that. And it's now a car I would consider buying in this segment. (But I expect the new S-class to blow it away this fall....)

I agree. Also IMO the facelift looks better than than the first version, but it still is sooo UGLY!

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29-ene-2005 14:14:22

kfractal: Junior; $kfractal$; Loc: Cary, NC , Estados Unidos; Posts: 78, Gallery; Registrado desde: 17-oct-2003; Reply to: nicholas j

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

less ugly than the first one. looks like they didn't want to pay $ for all the retooling necessary to completely undo the disaster on the rear-end. yet somewhat better as disguised by the tail lamps.

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02-feb-2005 10:44:04

temm: Rennteam Master; Loc: Oslo , Noruega; Posts: 4122, Gallery; Registrado desde: 24-jun-2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:

I myself like BMW, much better than their competition such as MB or AUDI, thats why it hurts me so much to see what Bangle et al are over at California are doing with the german company. If it were another company, say Lexus or VW, I couldn't care less. But BMW has always built the more "driver's" car of their class and I love them for it, ever since the E-30 M3's of my childhood.

Everytime I see a "banglelised" BMW I say to myself, what a pity, when will they come to their senses. Luckily, Bangle's damage is only skin deep and does not affect their engines and chasis and still drive better than the equivalent Audi or MB, and thats why they still sell well (I wouldn't sacrifice BMW's driving assets for another car of the competition just becuase of the Bangle design), but still I keep thinking how much better would BMW be now without Bangle?

So, in my case I'm not criticising "BMW cars" I'm criticising that cancer they have in the design depertment. And 99% of the BMW fans are the same way, they love the cars but can't stand what Bangle is doing to their company in design

A well made point Carlos, I guess one of the reasons so many people are "bashing" BMW at the moment is that they used to like BMW before Bangle.

I don't think the Bangle BMW's are ugly, except the pre-facelift 7-series, but I don't think they are beautiful either. The 5-series Touring looks great IMO, and the 6-series from some angles. But the Bangle butt is - well - butt ugly!

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04-feb-2005 6:38:50

alhurr: Junior; Loc: Abu dhabi , UAE , Emiratos Árabes Unidos; Posts: 92, Gallery; Registrado desde: 12-may-2003; Reply to: temm

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

I think it looks much better than the current model, hey it has got more power also.
Merc should watch out, this car will make you nervous!

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04-feb-2005 7:51:31

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Alemania; Posts: 12682, Gallery; Registrado desde: 11-abr-2002; Reply to: alhurr

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

Quote:
alhurr said:
I think it looks much better than the current model, hey it has got more power also.
Merc should watch out, this car will make you nervous!

Wait for the new S-class...

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04-feb-2005 9:46:25

alhurr: Junior; Loc: Abu dhabi , UAE , Emiratos Árabes Unidos; Posts: 92, Gallery; Registrado desde: 12-may-2003; Reply to: Rossi

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

Rossi, Merc is having a problem with their quality, and everybody admits that. They'll have trouble catching up the competition. One of the ways of getting close is adding more horsepower i guess!
I talking from experience, the crrent s class is an American car

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04-feb-2005 10:37:06

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , Reino Unido; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registrado desde: 14-may-2002; Reply to: alhurr

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

I disagree,
Although I read everywhere the Merc has gone down the drain in terms of quality, our SL500 and S600 are still immaculate and perfom 110% everyday, excellent ride and interior finish, although not Audi, is great, especially the S600 with its alcantara finish.
As for catching up with the competition, although I am not a fan of Merc, I do not see what you mean, there are way ahead of BMW and Audi in terms of volumes.
And in terms of quality, lagging behind Audi, but again, not that bad.
Maybe we've just been lucky with our cars

, knock on wood!
In luxury segment that is, which for me is, (S class, 7 series and A8) and (SL vs 6 series).
I think BMW has done very well in the States lately, but not better than Merc to my knowledge.

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04-feb-2005 13:30:27

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , España; Posts: 21156, Gallery; Registrado desde: 09-feb-2003; Reply to: Futch

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

BMW has finally now beaten Merc in terms of volume this last year, something that had not happened in ten years.
But I'm with Fanch on this one, as much as I preffer the dinamics and handling of the BWM in the other classes, in this luxury segement I prefer Mercedes, they are just the best at it in this class were luxury, confort, ride, creature conforts, pose, etc is fundamental and that Mercedes territory. Just my opinion though.

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04-feb-2005 15:14:38

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registrado desde: 02-ene-2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
BMW has finally now beaten Merc in terms of volume this last year, something that had not happened in ten years.
But I'm with Fanch on this one, as much as I preffer the dinamics and handling of the BWM in the other classes, in this luxury segement I prefer Mercedes, they are just the best at it in this class were luxury, confort, ride, creature conforts, pose, etc is fundamental and that Mercedes territory. Just my opinion though.

Volumes can be misleading....if one considers how many $100K+ cars Merc sells/yr vs BMW, seems BMW purposely avoids this more difficult sales territory. Also consider that BMW is pricing its new M5 below E55's price....what does that reveal about BMW's own view of its brand/pricing power? Bangleization (and notable lemon rate) of 7-series (and its effects on sales and discounting of 7-series) has probably saved Merc from having to rush out an updated S-class....let's just hope Merc doesn't abuse its effective monopoly on the $100K+ sedan class....

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