Crown

Lewis certainly showed that he is a world champion after getting out of the car....

Lewis is crying, wolf is sniffling and drinking on the mb party))) 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport.com/sport/motorsport/1001477/toto-wolff-crowd-surfing-and-partying-lewis-hamilton-formula...

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sportcars-history.com

Wolff and friends have a good reason to celebrate, after all. It is the Constructors' Championship which was won by the Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team.

It is a significant title and big trophy, (although most people think it is just the drivers' championship that is awarded)  which will be given to Wolff as Team CEO during the FIA Prize Giving Gala, on December 16 in Paris.

Frank Williams and even Enzo Ferrari thought that the Constructors' carried more weight than the Drivers',  although the vast majority of fans around the world focus on the achievement of the Champion Driver.

There will several other awards (Rookie, Personality etc.) and one for "Action of the Year" I think this one should be awarded to Nicholas Latifi for his impact and its consequences

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"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

reginos:

 

There will several other awards (Rookie, Personality etc.) and one for "Action of the Year" I think this one should be awarded to Nicholas Latifi for his impact and its consequences

 

Latifi crashed after tangling with Mick Schumacher. This crash ultimately prevented Ham from surpassing Michael in number of championships. Hmmmmm.... 

Lord_Driftalot:

@Whoopsy

it would have been unexpected had Hamilton won the title. Mercedes never did spent their developmental token this year, so the car is basically a 2020 car which was basically the 2019 car with the rear floor cut for the 2021 rule. It's amazing that he took a 2 year old car to within a few corners of winning the WDC. 

From where did you got this information? Merc did develop their car clearly since Silverstone, or what did I miss?

It had been widely reported all of this year actually. F1 tech talk (full version is behind pay wall on F1TV website), and various other motorsport outlets have covered it. Alpine was didn't used theirs, nor Haas. McLaren spent 2 tokens last year to change their tub to accept the Mercedes engine. Most teams did not fully develop their 2021 car simply because it is a stop gap year before major changes in 2022, a waste of money so to speak with a budget cap. Red Bull basically is the only team went all in developing their 2021 car until just about the end. They should be by all account will be starting on the back foot for 2022 as everyone else was focused on 2022 except them. 

You are confused about major changes vs in season little steps. 

Major changes require tokens, changing gearbox, tub, brake ducts etc requires tokens. Changing bargeboard designs, floor edge designs, front wing slots, rear wing profiles are freebie in season updates. 

Over the winter Mercedes developed something, but it didn't show gains so they abandoned the development and the tokens weren't used. The 2021 car is basically the 202 car with the rear floor cut out and some aero tweaks.

JoeRockhead:

reginos:

 

There will several other awards (Rookie, Personality etc.) and one for "Action of the Year" I think this one should be awarded to Nicholas Latifi for his impact and its consequences

 

Latifi crashed after tangling with Mick Schumacher. This crash ultimately prevented Ham from surpassing Michael in number of championships. Hmmmmm.... 

This must rank as the greatest conspiracy in sport, ever 

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

reginos:

JoeRockhead:

reginos:

 

There will several other awards (Rookie, Personality etc.) and one for "Action of the Year" I think this one should be awarded to Nicholas Latifi for his impact and its consequences

 

Latifi crashed after tangling with Mick Schumacher. This crash ultimately prevented Ham from surpassing Michael in number of championships. Hmmmmm.... 

This must rank as the greatest conspiracy in sport, ever 

, good thinking, Mick, everyones a winner  

throt

"I Have Done It!".

991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

991 GT3.2 pick up April/May 2018. ( Hairy Chest Spec ).

Vauxhall Zafira 1.6 Exclusive pick up June 2013. ( Shit Box )

Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.

reginos:

Wolff and friends have a good reason to celebrate, after all. It is the Constructors' Championship which was won by the Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team.

It is a significant title and big trophy, (although most people think it is just the drivers' championship that is awarded)  which will be given to Wolff as Team CEO during the FIA Prize Giving Gala, on December 16 in Paris.

Frank Williams and even Enzo Ferrari thought that the Constructors' carried more weight than the Drivers',  although the vast majority of fans around the world focus on the achievement of the Champion Driver.

There will several other awards (Rookie, Personality etc.) and one for "Action of the Year" I think this one should be awarded to Nicholas Latifi for his impact and its consequences

--

 

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

 

It is. Constructor Trophy had always been the crown jewel of F1 since the beginning. It was what the series was about to start with, who make the best, the fastest car.

Witness how early teams employ a host of of drivers to drive for them during a season in order to win the big trophy.

Good drivers are attracted to the best manufacturers as those will give them the best chance to win. In turn, good teams will want to sign the best driver in order to maximize their chance of winning the constructor. 

Don't forget, in early days of F1, there are real chance of drivers getting killed or hurt and not finish the season, hence the driver title is more about who can stay alive for the whole season, it carries less weight.

See no farther than when Ferrari fired Prost mid season to show where their priorities lies. Driver title is less important than the constructor title. 

In modern times the drivers are much more high profile and fans are more attached to a driver than the team, sort of elevated the driver title up in importance and making it seems like the more important title. But at the end of the day, a driver is just an employee, can be replaced just as easily as a tire changer. 

I like Hamilton the driver, but do I like/fan of the Mercedes team? Nope. Like most F1 fans, Ferrari is the team I like the most. Ferrari represents F1 from the beginning. Next team I like is McLaren, closely followed by Williams. I was born in the 70s so the racing in the 80s is when I first start watching F1. Back then these privateer teams were king of the hill. 

Do F1's success makes me wanted to go out and buy a Mercedes? Nope. Ferrari/McLaren? Yup. Even when they aren't quite successful yet. 

Red Bull. Do I drink their product? Nope. I am Monster guy, nothing to do with Hamilton's tie in. When I see Red Bull and their sports involvement, F1 isn't the first thing I pictured. Extreme sports is. Rebels of society. Non-conforming people. X-Games, motorcross, jumping off impossible slopes for down hill skiing, skateboarding, etc. It would seems the F1 team is ran the same way, rebellious, non-conforming. I do not share the same value so not a fan to begin with, nothing to do with Max being there. 

Mercedes. They are the OTHER brand that's based in Stuttgart. I find their cars a bit boring, just like their F1 team, boring straight forward, rigidly structured team. I will be much more likely to buy another BMW before I would consider getting a Mercedes. 

For the rest of the grid, I am really indifferent about them. They are just there to fill space to be honest. Well maybe I do have an opinion about Alpine/Renault however. I do like both Ocon and Alonso, my opinion about Alonso had completely changed over the years, he is so much more likeable now and I wanted him to go out on top. He earned that. But I really don't like anything French. Outside of champagne, red wine and Le Mans, nothing good really comes out of France 

Horner: "We need a miracle"

All in good fun.  But crazy how much hate and vitriol Latifi is getting from crazy fans that he feels the need to apologize.  People need to step back and take a deep breadth.

thuggy:

All in good fun.  But crazy how much hate and vitriol Latifi is getting from crazy fans that he feels the need to apologize.  People need to step back and take a deep breadth.

Fans are sick, thats why they are called fans. Crazy people 

sportcars-history.com

Up until Max rise to prominence in F1, most fans for different drivers are pretty civilized, not even like this during the Hamilton/Alonso days. Heck, even up to last year. When Max is getting into strides to challenge. This year however is just so much different. The passionate Max fast simply can't take any criticisms, always with the comeback of whatabout-ism on how Hamilton was like this and that before. It really went into World War 3. FIA's inconsistencies race over race didn't help either, they could have stepped in much earlier and strictly enforced their rules to curb the perceived favouritism, one way or another. 

Here is more talking head stuff. 

I believed Hamilton had already asked Toto to withdraw the appeal. That's pure class. Even when by the book Mercedes do have a firm ground to stand on regarding the rules and how they are written. But I have also explained before, even if they win the appeal, FIA don't really have any regulations stating they can just count back the laps, the only thing they could do within what they have written is to invalidate the results because of not following protocol. Which still put Max as the winner. There is no scenario where Hamilton can come out on top. 

I believe the biggest mistake for the whole weekend was for Masi to not red flagging the race after Latifi crashed. It was close to the end and the car can't be quickly cleared. If they do really want a race finish instead of finishing under a safety car, just stop the race after the first lap of safety car running. That way Masi could have bought himself more time to execute what's needed to do. 

His initial call for have lapped cars not overtake is well within the rules and his rights to announced. But only after Red Bull's lobbying the he compromised with just letting cars in between Max and Hamilton through and not the others. That's something NOT written down and can be debated. He painted himself in that grey corner. 

Imagine a 3 lap sprint to the end for the title with both Max and Hamilton on fresh tires (well maybe just Hamilton, I believe he still have another set of new hards and new softs, as Max had mounted his last set of fresh soft but those weren't ran hard at all). That would have been the exciting thrilling finish without controversy that the FIA and Liberty Media had wanted to finish up the season. 

Now with the FIA fucked ups, Max's first title will be forever clouded in controversy, not unlike Prost's 1989 title and others. Not really fair to him, he did drove his heart out all season. 

https://streamable.com/bs5etw

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-masis-latest-marginal-call-has-left-f1-with-a-sour-taste/6880875/

Also, could FIA man up and come out and say sorry fans we fucked up. Or hang Masi out to dry and say HE fucked up. There is nothing that can be done now, what's done is done, but we will do better for next year?

Perhaps in the minds of FIA and Liberty Media, splitting the titles between Mercedes and Red Bull is the better option to an epic season than say Hamilton winning the driver title under safety car? Let Mercedes have the constructor title using a 2 year old car while letting Max win the driver title for Red Bull.

The more one look at things, the more one feel they should have red flagged the race and let everyone have a 3 lap shootout. Heck Sainz was the one that got left behind Sunday. He was stuck behind some lapped cars and he could have also challenge of the win. Or maybe even Yuki gunning for his first win?

I think the majority of Max and Lewis fans wants a fair fight to the end, them decide on track. Of course some will claim if they finish under safety car and gifting Hamilton the automatic win would be unfair to Max. The other will use the same argument that on a one lap shoot out with Max running fresh softs vs Hamitlon's old hards aren't fair either. This debate will go on forever, over shadowing Max's first championship. I am sure while he felt great Masi turned the table in his favour late, he would have wanted a good fair race against Hamilton for a clean win without controversies. 

Mark my words, if in the future there is a championship on the line with a late accident like this, whoever is Race Director will automatically throw out a red flag to stop the race. 

The more one look at things, the more one feel they should have red flagged the race and let everyone have a 3 lap shootout.

+1

Whoopsy:

Up until Max rise to prominence in F1, most fans for different drivers are pretty civilized, not even like this during the Hamilton/Alonso days. Heck, even up to last year. When Max is getting into strides to challenge. This year however is just so much different.

I don’t know what “pretty civilized” means exactly. But I do remember Ayrton Senna’s fans loosing their minds against Alain Prost who had to face death threats and lots of anger. Probably one of the reasons that made him move from France to Switzerland.

Nicolas
Macan S/Ex-997.1/997.2 S/991.1 S/991.1 C4 GTS

throt:

reginos:

JoeRockhead:

reginos:

 

There will several other awards (Rookie, Personality etc.) and one for "Action of the Year" I think this one should be awarded to Nicholas Latifi for his impact and its consequences

 

Latifi crashed after tangling with Mick Schumacher. This crash ultimately prevented Ham from surpassing Michael in number of championships. Hmmmmm.... 

This must rank as the greatest conspiracy in sport, ever 

, good thinking, Mick, everyones a winner  

EXACTLY 

Whoopsy:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-masis-latest-marginal-call-has-left-f1-with-a-sour-taste/6880875/

 

Also, could FIA man up and come out and say sorry fans we fucked up. Or hang Masi out to dry and say HE fucked up. There is nothing that can be done now, what's done is done, but we will do better for next year?

Perhaps in the minds of FIA and Liberty Media, splitting the titles between Mercedes and Red Bull is the better option to an epic season than say Hamilton winning the driver title under safety car? Let Mercedes have the constructor title using a 2 year old car while letting Max win the driver title for Red Bull.

The more one look at things, the more one feel they should have red flagged the race and let everyone have a 3 lap shootout. Heck Sainz was the one that got left behind Sunday. He was stuck behind some lapped cars and he could have also challenge of the win. Or maybe even Yuki gunning for his first win?

I think the majority of Max and Lewis fans wants a fair fight to the end, them decide on track. Of course some will claim if they finish under safety car and gifting Hamilton the automatic win would be unfair to Max. The other will use the same argument that on a one lap shoot out with Max running fresh softs vs Hamitlon's old hards aren't fair either. This debate will go on forever, over shadowing Max's first championship. I am sure while he felt great Masi turned the table in his favour late, he would have wanted a good fair race against Hamilton for a clean win without controversies. 

Mark my words, if in the future there is a championship on the line with a late accident like this, whoever is Race Director will automatically throw out a red flag to stop the race. 

 

Letting some day pass and listening to many interviews and podcasts one thing stands, the decision under SC was outside the regulations!!! That is a fact! Now the question is why did they break the rules??? That answer we will never know I think. Now that we know that the SC was going one lap early without any reason is making a case for Mercedes I think! Another fact is that Lewis took the lead in the first lap and managed to fly in that race, so for Verstappen there was no chance to catch him under normal circumstances, so as soon as there was a chance for the FIA to changed the result and they bend all rues in order to get that result. Dont get me wrong, Max would also deserve the WDC but not like that IMO, as he clearly lost that race!!!

I really hope that Mercedes can get through with the appeal as I really dont think this is correct how they handed over the Win to Max.... The real Champion is Lewis this year. The comeback that he had the last few races was amazing, and I think it is really sad he was "robbed" this title! 

And another thing that makes Lewis a champion, is how he celebrated and congratulated Max even though it was clear he was Fuc... by the FIA!!! 

Full disclosure I think Lewis was robbed by a bad FIA decision.  I don’t think the FIA really cared who won, they didn’t want the race to end under yellow and made a bad decision to do so, they should have just red flagged the race as others have said.  However I don’t want the title to change hands due to a court battle, sometimes in sport you have to suck up a call, accept it and move on.

Congrats to Max, he is a worthy champion and had a great season!  But I do have some sympathy for him, this championship will have an asterisk beside it for many fans.   Through no fault of his own, for some fans, this championship won’t be given the same credit as others.   So unfortunately for Max, he is now in the weird position that he may need to win another one to get the full credit he deserves.  This bad execution has hurt both sporting parties.

I guess the real winner are the fans who get to debate this season for years going forward 

Despite the controversies, one thing we can all agree on is that the next season is going to be very entertaining to watch. Mercedes is going to be back with a vengeance and RedBull will be pushing hard to assert themselves. 

Regulations are changing dramatically. Everything is unknown. Maybe alfa will be the champ)))

sportcars-history.com

How about this for a comment... 

"Masi was ordered from high up to end the race like that..."

(AutoPap on Twltter)

Surely the TV numbers will skyrocket next year 

kudryavchik:

Regulations are changing dramatically. Everything is unknown. Maybe alfa will be the champ)))

Now that Kimi left I don’t really care for Alfa 

Masi, Eifel GP 2020: "There’s a requirement in the sporting regulations to wave all the lapped cars past" “Therefore the Safety Car period was a bit longer than what we would have normally expected.”
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/10/13/masi-explains-reason-for-late-eifel-gp-safety-car/

Masi, Abu Dhabi GP 2021: "The purpose of article 48.12 was to remove those lapped cars that would interfere in the race between the leaders"

With new Regulations next season, I expect that Mercedes will return to the top because of all teams participating  they have the most resources to get the new car right first time.

This season Mercedes competed with a modified 2020 car and they almost won.

BTW, I am not a strictly Mercedes-AMG fan but I like Hamilton as a driver and as a sportsman. I also like his life story; a mixed-race kid who has shone since the age of 11 in a White, upmarket sport where it was unthinkable for a black guy to even sit in a car and start a race. No one of the new drivers interests me much as personalities.

--

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

Nico997:

Whoopsy:

Up until Max rise to prominence in F1, most fans for different drivers are pretty civilized, not even like this during the Hamilton/Alonso days. Heck, even up to last year. When Max is getting into strides to challenge. This year however is just so much different.

I don’t know what “pretty civilized” means exactly. But I do remember Ayrton Senna’s fans loosing their minds against Alain Prost who had to face death threats and lots of anger. Probably one of the reasons that made him move from France to Switzerland.

Tax would be the biggest reason that overshadow anything else however for him to leave France.

Prost pioneered the 'crash out your opponent to win' strategy way back in 1989. Senna copied him in 1990, then later Schumacher and now in a way, Max, but Max didn't quite physically did it on the last race, so technically doesn't count. 

Back then, there aren't any social media or forums for fans to go to war. Only avenue for fans to vent their anger would be to say it to the TV reporters. Which, as all reporters will do, try to blow it up as big as possible. 

Shaich:

kudryavchik:

Regulations are changing dramatically. Everything is unknown. Maybe alfa will be the champ)))

Now that Kimi left I don’t really care for Alfa 

I actually wanted to see how Bottas fare as a team 'leader'. Also wanted to see how Zhou stack up against the likes of Yuki and Mick. 

Bottas did show some brilliance driving at times, he however does need more help from the car than others. Mercedes aren't designed to run in midfield so he has a tough time passing other cars, unlike Hamilton where he can pretty much dispatch cars at will. 

Next year's new cars are suppose to be better in traffic, so he on paper could do a bit better. But of course it's not likely the Alfa will be up there contending for podiums, but top 10s? Quite reasonable assumption.