Crown

Board: Other Sports Cars Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread

    Jan 27, 2005 9:47:58 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002

    Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    I know the 7 Series is no sports car but a lot of sports car owners also own a BMW 7 series as a daily driver, so I thought I'd mention it.
    Not much changed on the engine front, there are some enhancements but the most powerful engine, the V12, is still at the same power level. There have been rumours of a 500+ HP 7 Series but it seems: no such thing.

    Check for yourself: (the picture showing two cars shows the newer one on the upper picture).
    The facelifted 7 Series should be available starting April 2005.

    Jan 27, 2005 9:48:22 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    2.

    Jan 27, 2005 9:48:43 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    3.

    Jan 27, 2005 9:59:34 PM

    Ron (Houston)M
    Rennteam Moderator
    Ron (Houston)
    Loc: Houston, TX , United States
    Posts: 8812, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 10, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    RC you beat me to it .

    Jan 27, 2005 10:31:17 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Carlos from Spain
    Loc: Spain. , Spain
    Posts: 21148, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 9, 2003
    Reply to: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    I though BMW learnt the lesson of the 7-series styling mistake and would correct that in the facelift, instead they did a slightly different version of the same Bangle disaster

    Jan 27, 2005 10:51:21 PM

    Ron (Houston)M
    Rennteam Moderator
    Ron (Houston)
    Loc: Houston, TX , United States
    Posts: 8812, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 10, 2002
    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    There is no limit for ugliness . As you said, after few years Bangle and his team managed to come up with uglier design IMO than the original one.

    I'm really surprised that BMW sells this crap .

    Jan 27, 2005 11:24:52 PM

    brunner
    Veteran
    brunner
    Loc: E. Europe , Romania
    Posts: 1125, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 28, 2003
    Reply to: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    HA.
    It actually looks OLDER than the previous version.
    Now that's an achievement

    Jan 28, 2005 12:17:42 AM

    amazon
    Rennteam Pro
    amazon
    Loc: Belgium , Belgium
    Posts: 2110, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 5, 2004
    Reply to: brunner

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    I agree. Just a bit uglier. What Bmw should have done is remove the stupid boot and put one that actually fits on the damn car.

    It still looks like Bmw used the boot from another car and glue it to the 7-series.

    What I can't understand is how a car with a design like that can be approuved by Bmw and put into production. Don't they asked anyone about the design of a new car before production?

    I used to love bmw's. Now, bmw's looks so bad I would not want to be caught dead in one.

    Jan 28, 2005 1:01:48 AM

    TopherV
    Veteran
    TopherV
    Loc: Orange County, Southern California
    Posts: 1121, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 29, 2003
    Reply to: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    There is no limit for ugliness . As you said, after few years Bangle and his team managed to come up with uglier design IMO than the original one.

    I'm really surprised that BMW sells this crap .



    OOGLY

    Jan 28, 2005 1:19:13 AM

    nicholas j
    Senior
    nicholas j
    Loc: Upstate New York , United States
    Posts: 646, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 23, 2004
    Reply to: TopherV

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    I had a '98 740i. TREMENDOUS!! They changed styles and I went to the M3.Loved it until I test drove and now have on order a 997s. Maybe I should send Chris Bangle a thank you note!

    Jan 28, 2005 6:43:08 AM

    MKW
    Rennteam Pro
    MKW
    Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , United States
    Posts: 2491, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 22, 2002
    Reply to: nicholas j

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    Funny thing is, those same people knocking the Bangle butt for the past few years will praise the same rear trunk style coming on next year's new S class . On the MBZ boards, they are saying kinder things like " well it's on the ( ugly as hell ) Maybach, so I'll just have to get used to it "

    Jan 28, 2005 8:32:16 AM

    Chris Lo
    Senior
    Chris Lo
    Loc: HK , Hong Kong
    Posts: 505, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 10, 2002
    Reply to: nicholas j

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    The facelift is worse than the original one.

    Jan 28, 2005 9:24:43 AM

    Bilal
    Expert
    Bilal
    Loc: Manchester, UK
    Posts: 1533, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 20, 2003
    Reply to: Chris Lo

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    The new S-Class should be a market leader. Its not hard to get used to the looks of a Mercedes, better than the hard to swallow lines of current BMW's, over-ambitious styling of Ferrari's, (albeit they are nice) or the one-style historical design philosophy of Porsche...

    Jan 28, 2005 9:47:38 AM

    temm
    Rennteam Master
    temm
    Loc: Oslo , Norway
    Posts: 4122, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 24, 2003
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    There's an unbelievable amount of BMW-bashers on this board, no wonder we don't have a BMW Board

    I think the facelift looks better than the old one, I'll give them that. And it's now a car I would consider buying in this segment. (But I expect the new S-class to blow it away this fall....)

    Jan 28, 2005 9:48:32 AM

    temm
    Rennteam Master
    temm
    Loc: Oslo , Norway
    Posts: 4122, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 24, 2003
    Reply to: temm

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    Jan 28, 2005 9:59:17 AM

    Just_me
    Co-Pilot
    Just_me
    Loc: EU
    Posts: 170, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 16, 2004
    Reply to: temm

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    Looking very good. I never like the old E65 but this is a great update. Gorgeous

    Jan 28, 2005 10:28:04 AM

    zzbobaA
    Rennteam Administrator
    zzboba
    Loc: Germany
    Posts: 3115, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 8, 2002
    Reply to: temm

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    Quote:
    There's an unbelievable amount of BMW-bashers on this board, no wonder we don't have a BMW Board



    erm, i LOVE bangle's BMWs.

    BMW is setting the pace, all others are just following.

    - bangle BMWs look better they older they get. you have to get used to them, but it works. and they never get boring, from every angle you discover something new.

    - parked next to a modern BMW, all audis look boring and all mercs look outdated.

    - the next S class will get a 7 series boot, the maybach already has it.

    - the next S class cockpit is a rip off of the 7 series cockpit, including some i-drive device and same auto tranny selector lever.

    Jan 28, 2005 1:20:47 PM

    W8MM
    Rennteam Master
    W8MM
    Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States
    Posts: 3993, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 8, 2003
    Reply to: temm

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    Quote:
    temm said:
    There's an unbelievable amount of BMW-bashers on this board, no wonder we don't have a BMW Board

    I think the facelift looks better than the old one, I'll give them that.



    Well, I'm not a BMW basher, just a jilted BMW loyalist. Right now is the first time in over 30 years that there is not some sort of BMW in our garage. My wife's BMWCCA membership number has only four digits.

    I, too, think that the new 7er design is better looking (or less off-putting) than the current one. But, the combination of their recent design direction and product quality we have experienced from BMW has switched us to only owning cars that Ferdinand Piech has had something to do with over time. Porsches, Audis and a recent Bentley.

    Farewell Munich!

    Jan 28, 2005 1:25:46 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Carlos from Spain
    Loc: Spain. , Spain
    Posts: 21148, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 9, 2003
    Reply to: temm

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    Quote:
    temm said:
    There's an unbelievable amount of BMW-bashers on this board,



    I myself like BMW, much better than their competition such as MB or AUDI, thats why it hurts me so much to see what Bangle et al are over at California are doing with the german company. If it were another company, say Lexus or VW, I couldn't care less. But BMW has always built the more "driver's" car of their class and I love them for it, ever since the E-30 M3's of my childhood.

    Everytime I see a "banglelised" BMW I say to myself, what a pity, when will they come to their senses. Luckily, Bangle's damage is only skin deep and does not affect their engines and chasis and still drive better than the equivalent Audi or MB, and thats why they still sell well (I wouldn't sacrifice BMW's driving assets for another car of the competition just becuase of the Bangle design), but still I keep thinking how much better would BMW be now without Bangle?

    So, in my case I'm not criticising "BMW cars" I'm criticising that cancer they have in the design depertment. And 99% of the BMW fans are the same way, they love the cars but can't stand what Bangle is doing to their company in design

    Jan 28, 2005 2:08:26 PM

    WF
    Co-Pilot
    WF
    Loc: Holland
    Posts: 175, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 22, 2003
    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    I myself like BMW, much better than their competition such as MB or AUDI, thats why it hurts me so much to see what Bangle et al are over at California are doing with the german company. If it were another company, say Lexus or VW, I couldn't care less. But BMW has always built the more "driver's" car of their class and I love them for it, ever since the E-30 M3's of my childhood.

    Everytime I see a "banglelised" BMW I say to myself, what a pity, when will they come to their senses. Luckily, Bangle's damage is only skin deep and does not affect their engines and chasis and still drive better than the equivalent Audi or MB, and thats why they still sell well (I wouldn't sacrifice BMW's driving assets for another car of the competition just becuase of the Bangle design), but still I keep thinking how much better would BMW be now without Bangle?

    So, in my case I'm not criticising "BMW cars" I'm criticising that cancer they have in the design depertment. And 99% of the BMW fans are the same way, they love the cars but can't stand what Bangle is doing to their company in design



    I fully agree with you Carlos, I owned several BMW since the '80s liked all of them for the way they drove (wonderfully balanced rwd, delicate steering and lovely singing six-cylinder engines) all that put in a charming body with a mix of German and Italian designflavour. With the introduction of the E38 and E39 (previous 5 and 7) they probably got too cautious or conservative designwise because they wanted to continue the huge succes of the previous models. Some boardroom members recognised this and then Bangle came in, got too much freedom and well you know he spoiled the marque.
    If you want to know what a proper luxury sportsedan should look like; watch the Maser Quattroporte. I wish it had BMW technique in it.

    Jan 28, 2005 4:43:56 PM

    MKW
    Rennteam Pro
    MKW
    Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , United States
    Posts: 2491, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 22, 2002
    Reply to: WF

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    When I see the mid-90s BMWs , they look so stodgy and dated . Interesting that some comments on this thread now knock the car because it looks too traditional like prev 7er ( lights/lower front fascia/rear chunky lamp clusters ) at the same time they pine for " how they used to look ". To me, the main problem with the new 7 has never been the rear, but was and remains the rainbow arc of the roof in side view- makes the car look turtle like - heavy vs sleek which belies it's driving dynamics vs the competition. .

    Jan 29, 2005 8:23:23 AM

    Rossi
    Rennteam VIP
    Rossi
    Loc: Home , Germany
    Posts: 12680, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 11, 2002
    Reply to: temm

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    Quote:
    temm said:
    There's an unbelievable amount of BMW-bashers on this board, no wonder we don't have a BMW Board

    I think the facelift looks better than the old one, I'll give them that. And it's now a car I would consider buying in this segment. (But I expect the new S-class to blow it away this fall....)


    I agree. Also IMO the facelift looks better than than the first version, but it still is sooo UGLY!

    Jan 29, 2005 2:14:22 PM

    kfractal
    Junior
    kfractal
    Loc: Cary, NC , United States
    Posts: 78, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2003
    Reply to: nicholas j

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    less ugly than the first one. looks like they didn't want to pay $ for all the retooling necessary to completely undo the disaster on the rear-end. yet somewhat better as disguised by the tail lamps.

    Feb 2, 2005 10:44:04 AM

    temm
    Rennteam Master
    temm
    Loc: Oslo , Norway
    Posts: 4122, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 24, 2003
    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:

    I myself like BMW, much better than their competition such as MB or AUDI, thats why it hurts me so much to see what Bangle et al are over at California are doing with the german company. If it were another company, say Lexus or VW, I couldn't care less. But BMW has always built the more "driver's" car of their class and I love them for it, ever since the E-30 M3's of my childhood.

    Everytime I see a "banglelised" BMW I say to myself, what a pity, when will they come to their senses. Luckily, Bangle's damage is only skin deep and does not affect their engines and chasis and still drive better than the equivalent Audi or MB, and thats why they still sell well (I wouldn't sacrifice BMW's driving assets for another car of the competition just becuase of the Bangle design), but still I keep thinking how much better would BMW be now without Bangle?

    So, in my case I'm not criticising "BMW cars" I'm criticising that cancer they have in the design depertment. And 99% of the BMW fans are the same way, they love the cars but can't stand what Bangle is doing to their company in design



    A well made point Carlos, I guess one of the reasons so many people are "bashing" BMW at the moment is that they used to like BMW before Bangle.

    I don't think the Bangle BMW's are ugly, except the pre-facelift 7-series, but I don't think they are beautiful either. The 5-series Touring looks great IMO, and the 6-series from some angles. But the Bangle butt is - well - butt ugly!

    Feb 4, 2005 6:38:50 AM

    alhurr
    Junior
    alhurr
    Loc: Abu dhabi , UAE , United Arab Emirates
    Posts: 92, Gallery
    Registered on: May 12, 2003
    Reply to: temm

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    I think it looks much better than the current model, hey it has got more power also.
    Merc should watch out, this car will make you nervous!

    Feb 4, 2005 7:51:31 AM

    Rossi
    Rennteam VIP
    Rossi
    Loc: Home , Germany
    Posts: 12680, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 11, 2002
    Reply to: alhurr

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    Quote:
    alhurr said:
    I think it looks much better than the current model, hey it has got more power also.
    Merc should watch out, this car will make you nervous!


    Wait for the new S-class...

    Feb 4, 2005 9:46:25 AM

    alhurr
    Junior
    alhurr
    Loc: Abu dhabi , UAE , United Arab Emirates
    Posts: 92, Gallery
    Registered on: May 12, 2003
    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    Rossi, Merc is having a problem with their quality, and everybody admits that. They'll have trouble catching up the competition. One of the ways of getting close is adding more horsepower i guess!
    I talking from experience, the crrent s class is an American car

    Feb 4, 2005 10:37:06 AM

    FutchM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Futch
    Loc: EU , United Kingdom
    Posts: 4759, Gallery
    Registered on: May 14, 2002
    Reply to: alhurr

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    I disagree,
    Although I read everywhere the Merc has gone down the drain in terms of quality, our SL500 and S600 are still immaculate and perfom 110% everyday, excellent ride and interior finish, although not Audi, is great, especially the S600 with its alcantara finish.
    As for catching up with the competition, although I am not a fan of Merc, I do not see what you mean, there are way ahead of BMW and Audi in terms of volumes.
    And in terms of quality, lagging behind Audi, but again, not that bad.
    Maybe we've just been lucky with our cars , knock on wood!
    In luxury segment that is, which for me is, (S class, 7 series and A8) and (SL vs 6 series).
    I think BMW has done very well in the States lately, but not better than Merc to my knowledge.

    Feb 4, 2005 1:30:27 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Carlos from Spain
    Loc: Spain. , Spain
    Posts: 21148, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 9, 2003
    Reply to: FutchM

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    BMW has finally now beaten Merc in terms of volume this last year, something that had not happened in ten years.
    But I'm with Fanch on this one, as much as I preffer the dinamics and handling of the BWM in the other classes, in this luxury segement I prefer Mercedes, they are just the best at it in this class were luxury, confort, ride, creature conforts, pose, etc is fundamental and that Mercedes territory. Just my opinion though.

    Feb 4, 2005 3:14:38 PM

    WBH
    Expert
    WBH
    Loc: CA
    Posts: 1963, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 2, 2004
    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Facelifted BMW 7 Series

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    BMW has finally now beaten Merc in terms of volume this last year, something that had not happened in ten years.
    But I'm with Fanch on this one, as much as I preffer the dinamics and handling of the BWM in the other classes, in this luxury segement I prefer Mercedes, they are just the best at it in this class were luxury, confort, ride, creature conforts, pose, etc is fundamental and that Mercedes territory. Just my opinion though.



    Volumes can be misleading....if one considers how many $100K+ cars Merc sells/yr vs BMW, seems BMW purposely avoids this more difficult sales territory. Also consider that BMW is pricing its new M5 below E55's price....what does that reveal about BMW's own view of its brand/pricing power? Bangleization (and notable lemon rate) of 7-series (and its effects on sales and discounting of 7-series) has probably saved Merc from having to rush out an updated S-class....let's just hope Merc doesn't abuse its effective monopoly on the $100K+ sedan class....
     
    Edit

    Forum

    1. All 

    Boards

     
    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 4/11/24 6:53 AM
    GnilM     		753243 1796
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/7/24 11:48 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS     		430795 565
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 5/12/23 12:11 PM
    W8MM     		258628 288
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48     		255490 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA     		79536 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut     		5256 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    		 868387 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant     		801971 3868
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry     		384195 1526
    Porsche GT4RS 4/16/24 8:34 AM
    996FourEss     		382043 1445
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut     		365462 2401
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker     		364237 797
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 4/21/23 8:09 AM
    the-missile     		285875 550
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 4/11/24 12:32 PM
    Ferdie     		284260 668
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    		 258005 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug     		235498 346
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel     		222781 101
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel     		218920 488
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug     		165746 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut     		137797 144
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA     		114770 303
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM     		107041 685
    Others Valkyrie final design? 4/28/23 2:45 AM
    Rossi     		99117 219
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM     		83388 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame     		74853 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM     		52872 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 3/16/24 9:27 PM
    WhoopsyM     		24546 237
    Ferrari Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6) 1/21/24 4:29 PM
    GT-Boy     		20873 103
    BMW M 2022 BMW M5 CS 4/8/24 1:43 PM
    Ferdie     		19111 140
    AMG G63 sold out 9/15/23 7:38 PM
    Nico997     		16384 120
    128 items found, displaying 1 to 30.