Crown

Amazing update from Tesla esp the new battery tech in the Plaid+. Capacrity seems to be between 130kWh/140kWh without needing more space; weight I do not know. Don't get over excited about the steering wheel. I think that Elon wanted to get rid of the "wheel" to prove something, but this will not pass regulations. Also note that the base model got significantly faster, which may show that Tesla designed better cooling and more efficient motors.  They are 5 yrs ahead of the pack when it comes to EVs despite the huge investments of other OEMs. At the end of the day it is not about money but about brain :) - at least my plan to get a Taycan is done for now.

Cheers
Rick
PS:  I know "Volkswagen Group will rule them all" ; there is no need to tell me again 

W8MM:

Carlos from Spain:

Doesn't matter how cheap it is, you couldn't pay me to drive a car with a yoke steering wheel and looking like a fool.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

 

--

 

And so is a formula one car's steering wheel but don't see what a race car's steering wheel and turning ratio have to do with a street car's wheel. 

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos, you had to bring chest hair into it didn't you?

(Just Hasseling you.)

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

I was actually thinking some in the aftermarket would just crate a small part to complete the top of the existing wheel. Maybe $10?   
If nothing else it is typical Elon  controversy. Great marketing. 

RC:

I almost got myself a Tesla or a Taycan but in the end, I decided against an EV. Not because of performance but because of driving fun. No sound, nothing special ("just another EV..." according to my son and some of his friends ) and the range...I mean c'mon, even my Trackhawk has a 400 km range and I can fuel it up in five minutes tops.

EVs are not made for people like me: I have a leadfoot and while some EVs may be faster than my family truck, after 150-170 km, they end up at a charging station for at least an hour. No thanks. This is insane. 

I don’t think they make enough cars fast enough to care about selling you a car or anyone else who is not an EV fan. Hence they don’t advertise.   On the other hand. They are after actual EV buyers.  Buyers of Taycans to be exact. How many sales did Porsche just lose?  Do you think the other automakers are laughing at that steering wheel and are now sleeping good at night?  

If is obvious to me that if you are in the EV market there is only one best choice in EV tech.  Minus, of course, the fans of buttons and switches  

Sadly, until the plaid+ comes out these are still using the pre model3 batteries and conventional design. The plus+ will be a different animal. 

I really like the looks of Ford"s Mach E (or the should have been named Galax-E) vs Tesla Model Y. Then after hearing about the stop sale order on the Mach E for a very concerning 'undisclosed problem'; it was all the more concerning this week when I saw my first Mach E on the highway. It was traveling down the highway at about 65mph backwards on top of a flat bed tow truck. That's not a good look for a first impression.

Gladstone:

I really like the looks of Ford"s Mach E (or the should have been named Galax-E) vs Tesla Model Y. Then after hearing about the stop sale order on the Mach E for a very concerning 'undisclosed problem'; it was all the more concerning this week when I saw my first Mach E on the highway. It was traveling down the highway at about 65mph backwards on top of a flat bed tow truck. That's not a good look for a first impression.

That's typical Ford.  After 118 years in business, the company still has difficulties with product launches.  The current CEO, Jim Farley, will tell you how he is the smartest man in the room yet he won't have a clue about fixing the numerous problems at Ford.  

schmoell:

Amazing update from Tesla esp the new battery tech in the Plaid+. Capacrity seems to be between 130kWh/140kWh without needing more space; weight I do not know. Don't get over excited about the steering wheel. I think that Elon wanted to get rid of the "wheel" to prove something, but this will not pass regulations. Also note that the base model got significantly faster, which may show that Tesla designed better cooling and more efficient motors.  They are 5 yrs ahead of the pack when it comes to EVs despite the huge investments of other OEMs. At the end of the day it is not about money but about brain :) - at least my plan to get a Taycan is done for now.

Cheers
Rick
PS:  I know "Volkswagen Group will rule them all" ; there is no need to tell me again 

 

 

 Elon Musk knows how to impress people and how to keep them buying his cars, no doubt.

I think there is a mentality problem with VW Group: They try to make decent cars based on what they have learned over the past 90 years or so and Tesla wants to revolutionize the EV market (and they already did).

I think VW Group needs a more aggressive and open minded approach, especially when it comes to US customers. 

Americans love stuff like that (and apparently some Germans too ), so the Taycan Turbo S won't cut it.

Of course Porsche will again argue that their car is more refined, more luxurious, sportier and whatnot but reality is that the Taycan is overpriced and underperforming for the price it costs.

Now take a guess why I didn't get a Cayenne Turbo S as my next family truck. Or an Audi RS Q8 for that matter. Yes, the quality may not be at par with European/German products but US cars are fun. They are fun because Americans still understand what customers want in certain segments.

Surprisingly, Porsche knows exactly what Americans want in the sports car department but they are not capable to impress in other departments. The emotional side has been forgotten.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

The Taycan is unfortunately way overpriced. The Audi e-tron too. With such price levels people buy Tesla in the premium segment. I see Teslas all the time here. It has become such a common car. A massive market that Porsche and Audi could have ruled if they had not priced themselves out of it.

2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White

bluelines:

The Taycan is unfortunately way overpriced. The Audi e-tron too. With such price levels people buy Tesla in the premium segment. I see Teslas all the time here. It has become such a common car. A massive market that Porsche and Audi could have ruled if they had not priced themselves out of it.

They see only profit margins and this is/was their mistake.

Take it from a drug dealer's   perspective: When you launch a new drug, you make it cheap. You want people to get hooked. Then, once they are hooked, you can raise your prices. Well...  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

RC:

bluelines:

The Taycan is unfortunately way overpriced. The Audi e-tron too. With such price levels people buy Tesla in the premium segment. I see Teslas all the time here. It has become such a common car. A massive market that Porsche and Audi could have ruled if they had not priced themselves out of it.

They see only profit margins and this is/was their mistake.

Take it from a drug dealer's   perspective: When you launch a new drug, you make it cheap. You want people to get hooked. Then, once they are hooked, you can raise your prices. Well...  

I had expected more from the German car makers and I don’t get their strategy. By now they should be a threat to Tesla in Europe, but I get the opposite feeling.

Tesla is also three steps ahead in the purchase process. As easy as ordering your groceries online. Only very few options. Done.

I never liked Tesla as a car, but admired the brand and technology behind it (which is what the company is about, the cars are 2nd to that). The new Plaid I am warming to. Hard to find an alternative. If any?

2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White

bluelines:

The Taycan is unfortunately way overpriced. The Audi e-tron too. With such price levels people buy Tesla in the premium segment. I see Teslas all the time here. It has become such a common car. A massive market that Porsche and Audi could have ruled if they had not priced themselves out of it.

Tesla plays in the mainstream/premium market, Audi and Porsche go one step above and play in the luxury market, they aren't even in the same segment even within the EV sector, let alone all cars.

You want the best, you buy the Porsche, you want the next step down you get the Audi. In VAG's eyes, once they are ready to release a Bentley EV, that one will sit on top of the Porsche. It's a very simple and perfect strategy. If VAG really wants to go after Tesla's segment, there will be a VW Phaeton-ish EV gunning against the Model S. Their ID series of EV are already bracketing the low end of Tesla's segments. 

In war strategy, this is like securing both flanks, trapping the enemy in the middle of a valley. So if Tesla wants a breakout, they will need to mount a direct assault on one of the VAG products, up or down market. Tesla originally had the initiative on the EV segment, they blazed the trail, they set the target, but from now on with the upside and downside blocked, Tesla will need to react to VAG offerings, initiatives no more.

Smart move on the part of VAG, instead of reacting to what Tesla do, they changed the game instead. The Mission E platform is already a whole generation ahead with it's 800V system. Tesla is king of the 400V system atm, they are generations ahead of everyone else, there is no point in playing in that game. But by the time Tesla catch up with their own 800V system, VAG could be already on their gen 2 or gen 3 800V system. 

That is why I would have expected to see Audi e-trons everywhere here in Switzerland. Instead I see none, but more and more Tesla. This is the country for premium Audis by the way. Q5, Q7, A6 estate in all models.

The e-tron seem overpriced and underpowered compared to Tesla. No one with a premium / powerful Tesla would change to a more expensive and less powered Audi. So I think Tesla has become sticky here and it is very hard to get customers to jump brand. The Taycan is too expensive to compete with anything but a Porsche Turbo S. Volkswagen is not seen as the same level as lower Tesla here. Maybe that is in North America.

So no, I don’t get the strategy and I get the feeling the German car makers try to do EV the same way they have done combustion. Tesla seem to operate on a different level here, which probably attracts people of younger generations. At least that is what I hear from owners here (anecdotal evidence).

Whether 800V is better or not becomes a rather academic discussion if cars are not sold. 

Again, not a Tesla owner nor a Tesla fan  They do seem to do a lot of things right and differently right. A bit Apple over the whole setup.

2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White

800 volts is one of those stealth benefits that seems like it is less appealing than high technology , range, performance, buying experience, resale value, safety features, charging network and self driving.  Who is going to pay more for 800  lots in exchange for all these other benefits?  I get fancy stitching and nice interiors - but the other stuff needs to be at least a little more competitive. 
When the Plaid smokes the Taycan turbo plus will the Porsche driver who almost pay double be really happy about having 800 volts or will he be pissed that Porsche is not quicker?  
Most will wait until the Porsche is quicker. It was for a few months - 

Leawood911:

When the Plaid smokes the Taycan turbo plus will the Porsche driver who almost pay double be really happy about having 800 volts or will he be pissed that Porsche is not quicker?  
Most will wait until the Porsche is quicker. It was for a few months - 

That would be amazing to watch

And then PAG will have to release quick update over the air.

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

bluelines:

That is why I would have expected to see Audi e-trons everywhere here in Switzerland. Instead I see none, but more and more Tesla. This is the country for premium Audis by the way. Q5, Q7, A6 estate in all models.

The e-tron seem overpriced and underpowered compared to Tesla. No one with a premium / powerful Tesla would change to a more expensive and less powered Audi. So I think Tesla has become sticky here and it is very hard to get customers to jump brand. The Taycan is too expensive to compete with anything but a Porsche Turbo S. Volkswagen is not seen as the same level as lower Tesla here. Maybe that is in North America.

So no, I don’t get the strategy and I get the feeling the German car makers try to do EV the same way they have done combustion. Tesla seem to operate on a different level here, which probably attracts people of younger generations. At least that is what I hear from owners here (anecdotal evidence).

Whether 800V is better or not becomes a rather academic discussion if cars are not sold. 

Again, not a Tesla owner nor a Tesla fan  They do seem to do a lot of things right and differently right. A bit Apple over the whole setup.

Agreed. German car manufacturers just don't get it. Similar to Nokia, Blackberry and Sony Ericsson. Where are these companies now? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

Let’s be honest, buying a luxury EV today is not smart. The luxury brands know this but still build them because rich people are often not smart.

The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

The automakers are building EVs because regulations that prohibit emissions from internal combustion engines.  The luxury market is targeted first because of learning curves and the lack of economies of scale make component costs greater than that of corresponding ICE vehicles. 

nberry:

Let’s be honest, buying a luxury EV today is not smart. The luxury brands know this but still build them because rich people are often not smart.

You mean buying any luxury car (with very few exceptions) is not smart. 

A simple revolution in battery or charging tech could make your EV unsellable. Same goes to ICE cars if fuel prices (through higher taxes for example) get much higher and/or if driving an ICE car will be sanctioned in various ways, for example not being allowed to enter a city center or park in certain regions. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

bluelines:

That is why I would have expected to see Audi e-trons everywhere here in Switzerland. Instead I see none, but more and more Tesla. This is the country for premium Audis by the way. Q5, Q7, A6 estate in all models.

The e-tron seem overpriced and underpowered compared to Tesla. No one with a premium / powerful Tesla would change to a more expensive and less powered Audi. So I think Tesla has become sticky here and it is very hard to get customers to jump brand. The Taycan is too expensive to compete with anything but a Porsche Turbo S. Volkswagen is not seen as the same level as lower Tesla here. Maybe that is in North America.

So no, I don’t get the strategy and I get the feeling the German car makers try to do EV the same way they have done combustion. Tesla seem to operate on a different level here, which probably attracts people of younger generations. At least that is what I hear from owners here (anecdotal evidence).

Whether 800V is better or not becomes a rather academic discussion if cars are not sold. 

Again, not a Tesla owner nor a Tesla fan  They do seem to do a lot of things right and differently right. A bit Apple over the whole setup.

The e-Tron SUV wasn't suppose to be ground breaking car. it was just the world's first luxury EV SUV (aruguably between it and the Jaguar). But it is on last generation 400V tech.

It does everything 'good enough', nothing spectacular. I used it for school runs and stuff in the city, it's perfectly fine for that job. Not the quickest off the line, but not expected as a city car. Not having the longest range among EV, but that also don't matter as a city car, heck despite the 'short range', I only charges mine every two, three weeks. It carries 5 in comfort and loads of room for cargo and that's exactly what it is made for, carry people and stuff around the city. It fills a niche in the market place, where people wants a EV in the city, but they don't want a basic car but wanted a luxurious interior. 

Very positive review of the Volkswagen ID-4 including the software. https://youtu.be/aW7crVGm-s4

Tesla recalling 135,000 Model X/S for defective touchscreens. 

CGX car nut:

Tesla recalling 135,000 Model X/S for defective touchscreens. 

To be exact the memory in these is wearing out after too many writes. An issue well known for years. Not good but they can afford it. Still can’t build them fast enough. 

CGX car nut:

Very positive review of the Volkswagen ID-4 including the software. https://youtu.be/aW7crVGm-s4

That’s sounds great. Cant wait to drive one and compare 

Leawood911:

CGX car nut:

Tesla recalling 135,000 Model X/S for defective touchscreens. 

To be exact the memory in these is wearing out after too many writes. An issue well known for years. Not good but they can afford it. Still can’t build them fast enough. 

Take it with the Wall Street Journal. It is that periodical’s headline. https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-recalls-roughly-135-000-vehicles-over-touch-screen-failures-11612270332

CGX car nut:

Leawood911:

CGX car nut:

Tesla recalling 135,000 Model X/S for defective touchscreens. 

To be exact the memory in these is wearing out after too many writes. An issue well known for years. Not good but they can afford it. Still can’t build them fast enough. 

Take it with the Wall Street Journal. It is that periodical’s headline. https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-recalls-roughly-135-000-vehicles-over-touch-screen-failures-11612270332

So they are a couple years late to the actual issue. Known to anyone owning a model s or x for a long time. The news is that it took a long time for the feds to mandate a fix because it was borderline. 

Once again, reading comprehension alludes you.  The post and linked article was about the federal government forcing Tesla to recall vehicles containing defective components and design. 

CGX car nut:

Once again, reading comprehension alludes you.  The post and linked article was about the federal government forcing Tesla to recall vehicles containing defective components and design. 

I read the article. My response indicated this was a well known failure to everyone. Many owners spent their own money if out of warranty to fix it. After years of dispute with Tesla over how to categorize the failure and who should pay the feds decided it was a defect Tesla should pay for. 
I have little problem with reading comprehension and my post was to the point. Maybe read my posts a bit longer, they don’t even contain links in this case. 
So to recap - an outsourced memory chip combined with too many read and write operations caused the chip to wear out. Can you think of any other cars, computers, appliances etc which use memory chips which have a limited number of read and write operations?  Not exactly a Tesla specific phenomenon nor did it cause any crashes or injuries. 
So hence it was not big news to me. Maybe to you. I’m certain the VW board members are just hearing about it for the first time as well and expecting Tesla to give up. 

And other car makers won't use such a cheap memory chip that's consumer grade and not automotive grade in the first place. Such a problem would have been caught a long time ago in testing phase as Tesla knew the memory will get loads of read/write cycles, they wrote the damn software after all. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Of course it's better now, Tesla is in better financial shape so they can afford to pay a little extra for better product. But back then Tesla isn't flush with cash and need to penny pinch.