Crown

TB993tt:

Leawood911:

RC:

0-200 kph in 6.5 seconds is extremely impressive. 

OK, the car was on drag tires but still.

I like Brooks. He does fine work and provides a dose of Florida in the process. I recall his pricing the Chiron and how much each drag run would cost in depreciation and maintenance. The Mac is far more affordable- if that is a thing. 
I wonder if the sticky track and tires reduce the wear and tear on the braking system used for traction during the launch?      I would assume less interference so less wear. 
 

I don't think it uses the brakes for the launch TC, the grip is modulated by ECU limiting level of torque being produced by the motor.

McLaren's traction control program for straight line is pure black magic. They do run open diffs and uses the braking system for diff function in corners. 

Grant:

Nrgy:

And the 9.3 run was with a couple gallons of 100 octane fuel which might be the contributing factor. 

On most cars, using race fuel doesn’t increase power (just makes sure you don’t lose power).  Do you think the ECU on this car is smart enough to instantly increase power over usual amount with 93 octane (without aftermarket tune)??

BTW, Toyo R888 tires are not for drag racing, they’re road course tires (street legal and not particularly great - stock Trofeo R should be as fast or faster on track).

Yes I am aware of this. Perhaps it was simply a matter of time and he would have ran the 9.3 on 93 octane, or the LT can somehow compensate for the higher octane to a degree?  I'm just going off the data presented.

RC stated he ran on drag tires and I was simply pointing out they were R888's.  I think they are one of the best compromise street legal tires for the drag strip and why so many run them as they hook well.  I optioned the Trofeo R for my 765 and initial reports are it is very difficult to get heat in these on this car.  I'm sure after a few aggressive laps around a track they'll start to stick but I can see why maybe Brooks went with the Corsas for the street.

Nrgy:

Grant:

Nrgy:

And the 9.3 run was with a couple gallons of 100 octane fuel which might be the contributing factor. 

On most cars, using race fuel doesn’t increase power (just makes sure you don’t lose power).  Do you think the ECU on this car is smart enough to instantly increase power over usual amount with 93 octane (without aftermarket tune)??

BTW, Toyo R888 tires are not for drag racing, they’re road course tires (street legal and not particularly great - stock Trofeo R should be as fast or faster on track).

Yes I am aware of this. Perhaps it was simply a matter of time and he would have ran the 9.3 on 93 octane, or the LT can somehow compensate for the higher octane to a degree?  I'm just going off the data presented.

RC stated he ran on drag tires and I was simply pointing out they were R888's.  I think they are one of the best compromise street legal tires for the drag strip and why so many run them as they hook well.  I optioned the Trofeo R for my 765 and initial reports are it is very difficult to get heat in these on this car.  I'm sure after a few aggressive laps around a track they'll start to stick but I can see why maybe Brooks went with the Corsas for the street.

I think he went for regular P Zeros not Corsas.

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

2021 McLaren 765LT incoming 

993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.

Nrgy:

Grant:

Nrgy:

And the 9.3 run was with a couple gallons of 100 octane fuel which might be the contributing factor. 

On most cars, using race fuel doesn’t increase power (just makes sure you don’t lose power).  Do you think the ECU on this car is smart enough to instantly increase power over usual amount with 93 octane (without aftermarket tune)??

BTW, Toyo R888 tires are not for drag racing, they’re road course tires (street legal and not particularly great - stock Trofeo R should be as fast or faster on track).

Yes I am aware of this. Perhaps it was simply a matter of time and he would have ran the 9.3 on 93 octane, or the LT can somehow compensate for the higher octane to a degree?  I'm just going off the data presented.

RC stated he ran on drag tires and I was simply pointing out they were R888's.  I think they are one of the best compromise street legal tires for the drag strip and why so many run them as they hook well.  I optioned the Trofeo R for my 765 and initial reports are it is very difficult to get heat in these on this car.  I'm sure after a few aggressive laps around a track they'll start to stick but I can see why maybe Brooks went with the Corsas for the street.

Sorry, maybe my claim was a little bit misleading. The R888 is basically one of the best tires for the drag strip (Brooks' claim, he is in constant contact with my son, they exchange messages often) if you want to drive this tire on the road (legally) as well. It is a semi-slick, not a hardcore drag tire like a Mickey Thompson for example. Sorry for the confusion.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

I don't understand abusing the car for this information. The manufacturer provides it. I understand this is a profit making enterprise for Drag Times but find it totally unnecessary.

The only easy day was yesterday..

nberry:

I don't understand abusing the car for this information. The manufacturer provides it. I understand this is a profit making enterprise for Drag Times but find it totally unnecessary.

Just 

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

2021 McLaren 765LT incoming 

993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.

TB993tt:

nberry:

I don't understand abusing the car for this information. The manufacturer provides it. I understand this is a profit making enterprise for Drag Times but find it totally unnecessary.

Just 

Nick should get warranty rebates for his RS. I’m willing to send a letter to Porsche. Anyone want to sign on?  

Leawood911:

TB993tt:

nberry:

I don't understand abusing the car for this information. The manufacturer provides it. I understand this is a profit making enterprise for Drag Times but find it totally unnecessary.

Just 

Nick should get warranty rebates for his RS. I’m willing to send a letter to Porsche. Anyone want to sign on?  

2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White

Leawood911:

TB993tt:

nberry:

I don't understand abusing the car for this information. The manufacturer provides it. I understand this is a profit making enterprise for Drag Times but find it totally unnecessary.

Just 

Nick should get warranty rebates for his RS. I’m willing to send a letter to Porsche. Anyone want to sign on?  

Mike, I knew this was coming. But I honestly do not understand the drag race piece of this. I understand tracking a car and seriously exercising it on public roads. But burning tires, stressing a fairly new engine and testing new tires on a $350,000 car? Come on.

The only easy day was yesterday..

nberry:

Leawood911:

TB993tt:

nberry:

I don't understand abusing the car for this information. The manufacturer provides it. I understand this is a profit making enterprise for Drag Times but find it totally unnecessary.

Just 

Nick should get warranty rebates for his RS. I’m willing to send a letter to Porsche. Anyone want to sign on?  

Mike, I knew this was coming. But I honestly do not understand the drag race piece of this. I understand tracking a car and seriously exercising it on public roads. But burning tires, stressing a fairly new engine and testing new tires on a $350,000 car? Come on.

Even if could never afford the wear and tear ONCE I bought the car I would drive the crap out of it and drag race it every possible chance.  These guys are way beyond worried about money. This is the cars purpose. 
And I did not intend my comment to be anything but humor. I’m sorry if I missed the mark but my respect for your car choice is never in question. You can’t go wrong and will always have the last laugh.  Cheers buddy!

Nrgy:

Grant:

Nrgy:

And the 9.3 run was with a couple gallons of 100 octane fuel which might be the contributing factor. 

On most cars, using race fuel doesn’t increase power (just makes sure you don’t lose power).  Do you think the ECU on this car is smart enough to instantly increase power over usual amount with 93 octane (without aftermarket tune)??

BTW, Toyo R888 tires are not for drag racing, they’re road course tires (street legal and not particularly great - stock Trofeo R should be as fast or faster on track).

Yes I am aware of this. Perhaps it was simply a matter of time and he would have ran the 9.3 on 93 octane, or the LT can somehow compensate for the higher octane to a degree?  I'm just going off the data presented.

RC stated he ran on drag tires and I was simply pointing out they were R888's.  I think they are one of the best compromise street legal tires for the drag strip and why so many run them as they hook well.  I optioned the Trofeo R for my 765 and initial reports are it is very difficult to get heat in these on this car.  I'm sure after a few aggressive laps around a track they'll start to stick but I can see why maybe Brooks went with the Corsas for the street.

It doesn't work that way. 

Octane number simply means the gasoline's resistance to premature detonation. Higher the number the more resistant to ignition but also slower burning. 

McLaren already pre-programmed the optimal cylinder pressure for retail gasoline to produce their rated HP. To suggest the ECU can compensate for higher octane gasoline means the ECU can increase the cylinder pressure and thus can produce more than the rated HP. What you are suggesting is that 765LT can sense a higher octane gasoline being used and thus increase the turbo boost. It doesn't. 

I’m not saying it does, but increasing boost and monitoring for preignition would be a way to “test” for higher octane fuel... I know you’re aware that timing retardation when knock is heard is how most engines “detect” lower quality fuel...

When Ben and I drove his CGT with racing fuel, neither one of us noticed any difference between 100 and 93 octane. 
 

Mike, I didn’t take it personally. I thought it was a very creative humorous post.

--

The only easy day was yesterday..

nberry:

When Ben and I drove his CGT with racing fuel, neither one of us noticed any difference between 100 and 93 octane. 

--

 

The only easy day was yesterday..

 

It’s a big difference between an NA motor and turbocharged motor.  Theoretically, a turbo motor can make significantly more power with higher octane (higher boost level and more advanced ignition timing), but this usually requires an aftermarket tune to achieve.

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

RC:

Nrgy:

Grant:

Nrgy:

And the 9.3 run was with a couple gallons of 100 octane fuel which might be the contributing factor. 

On most cars, using race fuel doesn’t increase power (just makes sure you don’t lose power).  Do you think the ECU on this car is smart enough to instantly increase power over usual amount with 93 octane (without aftermarket tune)??

BTW, Toyo R888 tires are not for drag racing, they’re road course tires (street legal and not particularly great - stock Trofeo R should be as fast or faster on track).

Yes I am aware of this. Perhaps it was simply a matter of time and he would have ran the 9.3 on 93 octane, or the LT can somehow compensate for the higher octane to a degree?  I'm just going off the data presented.

RC stated he ran on drag tires and I was simply pointing out they were R888's.  I think they are one of the best compromise street legal tires for the drag strip and why so many run them as they hook well.  I optioned the Trofeo R for my 765 and initial reports are it is very difficult to get heat in these on this car.  I'm sure after a few aggressive laps around a track they'll start to stick but I can see why maybe Brooks went with the Corsas for the street.

Sorry, maybe my claim was a little bit misleading. The R888 is basically one of the best tires for the drag strip (Brooks' claim, he is in constant contact with my son, they exchange messages often) if you want to drive this tire on the road (legally) as well. It is a semi-slick, not a hardcore drag tire like a Mickey Thompson for example. Sorry for the confusion.

Ah, I know R888 are nothing special for semi/slicks on a road course.  I didn’t realize they are particularly good on a drag strip (never tried that) - thanks!

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

nberry:

I don't understand abusing the car for this information. The manufacturer provides it. I understand this is a profit making enterprise for Drag Times but find it totally unnecessary.

 Brooks is a very nice guy, like I said before, he takes his time to communicate with my son (who he doesn't know at all personally) on an almost daily basis and he loves cars and what he is doing. Of course this is some sort of business for him but I think he is doing well even without YouTube, we know what he is doing outside of YouTube and it is impressive. We plan to meet with him once we are back to Florida.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

nberry:

When Ben and I drove his CGT with racing fuel, neither one of us noticed any difference between 100 and 93 octane. 
 

Mike, I didn’t take it personally. I thought it was a very creative humorous post.

--

 

The only easy day was yesterday..

 

The car probably is more sluggish when he was driving with race fuel if the car isn't overheating. There is no benefits to higher octane if the factory didn't tune the ECU for it. 

It that was a hot day and engine temperature was too high and the regular fuel was knocking, then the race fuel would have helped to restore performance to factory level. 

mcdelaug:

I’m not saying it does, but increasing boost and monitoring for preignition would be a way to “test” for higher octane fuel... I know you’re aware that timing retardation when knock is heard is how most engines “detect” lower quality fuel...

If the factory did not tune the ECU to take advantage of higher octane fuel than retail stuff, then there will be absolutely zero benefits in running higher octane fuel than what the factory spec for.

The only time higher octane fuel would help for a car that's is not tuned for high octane is when the engine is running too hot and the regular fuel was knocking. 

Unless someone fuelled up at Penny Gas or Discount Gas or something, low quality fuel is pretty much non-existence. Chevron, Shell, etc, all national name brands have their standard and they are pretty much spot on. 

Whoopsy:

mcdelaug:

I’m not saying it does, but increasing boost and monitoring for preignition would be a way to “test” for higher octane fuel... I know you’re aware that timing retardation when knock is heard is how most engines “detect” lower quality fuel...

 

If the factory did not tune the ECU to take advantage of higher octane fuel than retail stuff, then there will be absolutely zero benefits in running higher octane fuel than what the factory spec for.

The only time higher octane fuel would help for a car that's is not tuned for high octane is when the engine is running too hot and the regular fuel was knocking. 

Unless someone fuelled up at Penny Gas or Discount Gas or something, low quality fuel is pretty much non-existence. Chevron, Shell, etc, all national name brands have their standard and they are pretty much spot on. 

 

+1

I know people who are heavily involved in engine/ignition development. They say no difference if you use 98octane or more. Completely pointless. The electronics do not react to more than 98octane, only to less. In the EU there are maximum tolerances on power upwards. If the engine reacted to the higher octane number (more power), the car would lose its registration.

Even the supposedly better additives show no improvement in the endurance tests

Whoopsy:

mcdelaug:

I’m not saying it does, but increasing boost and monitoring for preignition would be a way to “test” for higher octane fuel... I know you’re aware that timing retardation when knock is heard is how most engines “detect” lower quality fuel...

 

If the factory did not tune the ECU to take advantage of higher octane fuel than retail stuff, then there will be absolutely zero benefits in running higher octane fuel than what the factory spec for.

The only time higher octane fuel would help for a car that's is not tuned for high octane is when the engine is running too hot and the regular fuel was knocking. 

Unless someone fuelled up at Penny Gas or Discount Gas or something, low quality fuel is pretty much non-existence. Chevron, Shell, etc, all national name brands have their standard and they are pretty much spot on. 

 

 There are only very very few cars who take advantage of higher octane fuel, like my former E63 S (pre-facelift). The new version with particulate filter doesn't. This is all according to Renntech, they tested fuels extensively on the dyno. Some older turbo charged cars also had their knock sensors set to 100 octane ROZ (for whatever reason) but in general, higher octane fuel is just a waste of money. Unless of course it is very hot outside, then you may actually get the stock power with higher octane fuel, avoiding a heat soak (up to a certain point only though).

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

Itsme:

Whoopsy:

mcdelaug:

I’m not saying it does, but increasing boost and monitoring for preignition would be a way to “test” for higher octane fuel... I know you’re aware that timing retardation when knock is heard is how most engines “detect” lower quality fuel...

 

If the factory did not tune the ECU to take advantage of higher octane fuel than retail stuff, then there will be absolutely zero benefits in running higher octane fuel than what the factory spec for.

The only time higher octane fuel would help for a car that's is not tuned for high octane is when the engine is running too hot and the regular fuel was knocking. 

Unless someone fuelled up at Penny Gas or Discount Gas or something, low quality fuel is pretty much non-existence. Chevron, Shell, etc, all national name brands have their standard and they are pretty much spot on. 

 

+1

I know people who are heavily involved in engine/ignition development. They say no difference if you use 98octane or more. Completely pointless. The electronics do not react to more than 98octane, only to less. In the EU there are maximum tolerances on power upwards. If the engine reacted to the higher octane number (more power), the car would lose its registration.

Even the supposedly better additives show no improvement in the endurance tests

Not during hot summer months.  The higher octane fuel helps to reduce a heat soak. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

RC:

Itsme:

Whoopsy:

mcdelaug:

...

Not during hot summer months.  The higher octane fuel helps to reduce a heat soak. 

I was told something different by someone of the development team. Differences are supposedly within the tolerance of the measurement. 

Under extreme heat conditions (over 35°C outside temp), the higher octane fuel helps with cooling under extreme driving conditions, mostly at full load.  The higher octane fuel only helps under these conditions if the engine has a knock sensor. 

So the higher octane fuel doesn't help the engine to produce more power but to maintain the stock power under extreme driving conditions (heat, full load).

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

You are both correct. 

ECU has some tolerance build-in for high loads and high temperature. But they can't program in every single scenario. 

But in some extreme conditions the engine will operate beyond that and a higher octane fuel can help to maintain factory spec-ed performance. 

Drag race 720S V 765LT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZidmY8gLRnI

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

2021 McLaren 765LT incoming 

993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.

765LT is a monster.

We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

The active aero on the car is interesting to watch too as it helps with traction off the line. 

How could aero help with traction off the line? 

2019 911 GT3 RS,1964 Type 1

DaveGordon:

How could aero help with traction off the line? 

As the 765LT moves away from the line the rear spoiler rises into its air brake position to increase rear axle loading.  Aerodynamic forces are present with air flow of any velocity other than zero, albeit those forces increase with the square of the velocity.  Even a small amount of downforce helps provide increased traction over the 720.  As the car continues to accelerate, the rear spoiler retracts to mitigate the increase in drag associated with the increasing downforce. 

CGX car nut:

DaveGordon:

How could aero help with traction off the line? 

As the 765LT moves away from the line the rear spoiler rises into its air brake position to increase rear axle loading.  Aerodynamic forces are present with air flow of any velocity other than zero, albeit those forces increase with the square of the velocity.  Even a small amount of downforce helps provide increased traction over the 720.  As the car continues to accelerate, the rear spoiler retracts to mitigate the increase in drag associated with the increasing downforce. 

Would be interesting to see the acceleration numbers with and without the wing.  I'm guessing that "off the line" the assistance is barely measurable...

But maybe I'm wrong - whatever they're doing, it seems to be f***ing fast 

--

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi