Crown

RC:

CGX car nut:

In MY 2022, Jeep should introduce a new Grand Cherokee as well as its larger sibling, the Wagoneer.  That is why the engine is potentially ending production as it shifts to a hybrid configuration.  However, with Ford set to introduce a new 7.3l V8 for its F-150, it is conceivable that a tuned variant could make its way into the Mustang.  If that happens, FCA will develop a large displacement V8 competitor.   

The EPA does not do fuel ratings for heavy-duty trucks so there are no ratings, meaning: The n/a 7.3 l V8 for the F-150 isn't an environmental issue (yet). I kind of doubt that they are going to supercharge or add turbo chargers to this engine for other cars because this would require a tremendous development effort to meet a 50 States certification for 2022 and later.

My (German) dealer has been told by FCA Europe that he shouldn't expect any high powered V8 engines for the Jeep model line anymore in the future. He thinks that even the SRT won't survive with a V8. More likely, the next Jeep GC generation will be based on the Alfa Romeo Stelvio platform and use similar engines to lower cost. Ford did the same with the Explorer and Expedition and I have to admit that I liked the Expedition Max we had two years ago during a US trip, 400 (I think) hp from a Bi-Turbo V6, not bad at all but...no proper exhaust sound either.

It doesn't matter (anymore) what (some) customers or even car manufacturers want: Emissions standards are getting tougher and tougher to meet, high displacement engines are a thing of the past I'm afraid, even supercharged/turbo charged ones. The EU just has decided to introduce much tougher emissions standards for 2030, standards which are basically impossible to meet with combustion engines. Even the Euro 7 emissions standard is tough for car manufacturers and it starts in 2025.

Car manufacturers in Europe and in the US won't produce cars for the EU and California only, they will build cars which are certified for the EU and all 50 US States.

Another EU problem many may do not know: The EU wants to forbid individual acceptance/certification of vehicles, meaning that some Tuners or even exclusive car manufacturers will have difficulties to get their products certified. 

Another thing which will disappear is apparently also the exemption for low production numbers manufacturers. 

Sorry to say this but I think dinosaurs like the Trackhawk or all those Hellcat and Shelby Mustang, etc. cars are a thing of the past. RIP.

--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

 

Once again, you are wrong.  The Ford F-150 is not a heavy-duty truck, it is a light truck.  Whilst the standards are less stringent for light trucks and SUVs compared with the typical passenger vehicle, i.e., sedan and some crossover.  Heavy duty vehicles are defined by the EPA as those with a gross vehicle weight rating (“GVWR”) greater than 8,500 pounds.  In California, the heavy duty GVWR is greater than 14,000 pounds. However, passenger vehicles with GVWR between 8,500 pounds and 10,000 pounds are mandated to the the Tier Two Light Vehicle Standards for emissions and fuel economy standards.  
 

Some of the passenger trucks, the Ford Raptor and the Hummer H2 for example, were certified as medium duty, not heavy duty trucks, because of size.  These vehicles have additional clearance lamps and meet a less stringent emission and fuel standard but are still regulated by the EPA and CARB.  Furthermore, all road vehicles in the United States must conform, including heavy duty diesel trucks to emissions standards. However, some latitude is provided to rolling chassis.  Those differences are beyond this conversation.  

If the car is pre-registered is it sold as new car or used car? I am asking to see if I can buy a pre-registered car in Germany with <50 km for export within the EU.

wantone:

If the car is pre-registered is it sold as new car or used car? I am asking to see if I can buy a pre-registered car in Germany with <50 km for export within the EU.

It is considered used and if it was registered to a dealership, VAT is (still) deductible as well.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

If I understand correctly, you are trying to figure out if you need to pay VAT again in your country even though it is paid in Germany, where car was originally registered. In order to be VAT exempt both have to be true:

1. Car must be registered for more than 6 months

2. Car must have more than 6000km on the odometer

Nikolas - 16 Mercedes Benz G63 AMG Edition 463

18 Audi RS3

N11KOY:

If I understand correctly, you are trying to figure out if you need to pay VAT again in your country even though it is paid in Germany, where car was originally registered. In order to be VAT exempt both have to be true:

1. Car must be registered for more than 6 months

2. Car must have more than 6000km on the odometer

 

Is this valid for the whole EU? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

From my knowledge, yes, it is true for the whole of the EU. I have bought and sold, for myself and friends, more than 5 cars the past 5 years, last one a few months ago. At time of registration, both had to be true, if not we had to pay the VAT in the new country and claim it back from the first one. 

A friend, unfortunately, didn't listen to me and bought a Brabus G800 Black Ops with 1300km and 13 months old from a private individual. And now he has to pay 55k Euro of tax in order to register it in another EU country, and he cannot claim the VAT back since it was owned by a private individual, therefore paying the VAT twice!!! We found a way to get away with that, of course, but it is a bit of a hassle. Car is on German Zoll numbers trying to reach 6500km, in order to pass from an MOT (TUV) test with a mileage of above 6000km, for it to be dealt with as a 'used' car.

Nikolas - 16 Mercedes Benz G63 AMG Edition 463

18 Audi RS3

N11KOY:

From my knowledge, yes, it is true for the whole of the EU. I have bought and sold, for myself and friends, more than 5 cars the past 5 years, last one a few months ago. At time of registration, both had to be true, if not we had to pay the VAT in the new country and claim it back from the first one. 

A friend, unfortunately, didn't listen to me and bought a Brabus G800 Black Ops with 1300km and 13 months old from a private individual. And now he has to pay 55k Euro of tax in order to register it in another EU country, and he cannot claim the VAT back since it was owned by a private individual, therefore paying the VAT twice!!! We found a way to get away with that, of course, but it is a bit of a hassle. Car is on German Zoll numbers trying to reach 6500km, in order to pass from an MOT (TUV) test with a mileage of above 6000km, for it to be dealt with as a 'used' car.

Very interesting, thanks.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

You are welcome! :-) 

btw you have a PM!

Nikolas - 16 Mercedes Benz G63 AMG Edition 463

18 Audi RS3

N11KOY:

If I understand correctly, you are trying to figure out if you need to pay VAT again in your country even though it is paid in Germany, where car was originally registered. In order to be VAT exempt both have to be true:

1. Car must be registered for more than 6 months

2. Car must have more than 6000km on the odometer

 

I know about this. This is for the Greek customs requirements. I can get export plates and insurance for 2 weeks then drive daily until I hit 6000km when I arrive to the Greek POE (CH, Italy, South of France etc.). That's the plan. Need to pay German VAT that's why I am looking for preregistered car.

Didn't know that I need to get back to Germany to get TUV papers. I guess I can book an appointment days in advance?  Driving back to Germany is no issue as I need to put some miles on the car anyway.

Worst case scenario I extend the export plates and insurance for more than 2 weeks.

Btw, looking for a Tesla.

wantone:

N11KOY:

If I understand correctly, you are trying to figure out if you need to pay VAT again in your country even though it is paid in Germany, where car was originally registered. In order to be VAT exempt both have to be true:

1. Car must be registered for more than 6 months

2. Car must have more than 6000km on the odometer

 

I know about this. This is for the Greek customs requirements. I can get export plates and insurance for 2 weeks then drive daily until I hit 6000km when I arrive to the Greek POE (CH, Italy, South of France etc.). That's the plan. Need to pay German VAT that's why I am looking for preregistered car.

Didn't know that I need to get back to Germany to get TUV papers. I guess I can book an appointment days in advance?  Driving back to Germany is no issue as I need to put some miles on the car anyway.

Worst case scenario I extend the export plates and insurance for more than 2 weeks.

Btw, looking for a Tesla.

Hi wantone,

This is the requirement for every EU country, not only Greece. The car will pass from an MOT service in the country that you want to register it, first of all, because it has to be road worthy and secondly because the real mileage has to be accounted for. MOT report is one of the docs needed when registering a car that has been used in another country. 

If you are registering a car in Greece, no need for a German TUV.

Nikolas - 16 Mercedes Benz G63 AMG Edition 463

18 Audi RS3

Performance at around 1000 km (no launch control, 8°C outside temp, full tank, driver only).

1/4 Mile: 12.1 sec (without launch control, Trackhawk does times from 11.3 to 11.6 sec stock with launch control)

0-100 kph (0-62 mph): 3.7 seconds (without launch control).

0-60 mph time would be around 3.4 seconds in this case.

0-160 kph (0-100 mph): 8.3 seconds (without launch control).

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

that is indeed very very quick

Sorry, this page didn't show up when I wanted to take a pic, now it is "back". 

No launch control as mentioned. Pretty good in my opinion.

I "met" with a GLC 63 S facelift (same one we have) on the Autobahn on Sunday, was surprisingly faster in any speed range, especially in the 100 to 200 speed range. He showed thumbs up afterwards. I had a full tank and my wife was with me, he was alone. 

I guess I got a "good" one, some Trackhawk seem to have had power issues, especially earlier 2018 models.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

I suppose this is the only 0-100 kph in 3.7 sec car worldwide which can do this. 🤗

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

Ahh LG OLED, perfect for Cyberpunk 2077...

mcdelaug:

Ahh LG OLED, perfect for Cyberpunk 2077...

Nah, I deleted it and requested a refund after playing it for an hour. My son even bothered to play it longer but the result was the same in the ene. No performance issues on PS5, not even bugs but bad graphics and bad game physics compared to our favorite GTA V, which is 7 years old (OK, with some visual improvements over time but still...).

I got the LG CX because of gaming, yes but also because in the pandemic, the TV in the living room has become one of the most used devices in the house (next to the coffee machine 😂). Wanted the 77” at first because of a special offer of a local dealer (stores are closed but online orders and pickup are possible) but that special offer (3400 EUR) ended at midnight before I ordered it and I didn’t want to pay 4600 instead, so I got the 65” for 2200. Still not bad.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

RC:

I suppose this is the only 0-100 kph in 3.7 sec car worldwide which can do this. 🤗

Only if you also need to make a bunch of noise otherwise both the Y and X can do this. For less money in the case of the Y.   Ooops. 

There it is, the mandatory Tesla plug  ... Christian wouldn't last a week with an X or Y before turning it back in 

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

There it is, the mandatory Tesla plug  ... Christian wouldn't last a week with an X or Y before turning it back in 

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Do they still have that return policy?  It think they stopped that.
You have to admit RC put it out there and I’m not totally wrong. I would say the various Porsche based SUVs can also match these numbers. 

RC:

mcdelaug:

Ahh LG OLED, perfect for Cyberpunk 2077...

Nah, I deleted it and requested a refund after playing it for an hour. My son even bothered to play it longer but the result was the same in the ene. No performance issues on PS5, not even bugs but bad graphics and bad game physics compared to our favorite GTA V, which is 7 years old (OK, with some visual improvements over time but still...).

I got the LG CX because of gaming, yes but also because in the pandemic, the TV in the living room has become one of the most used devices in the house (next to the coffee machine 😂). Wanted the 77” at first because of a special offer of a local dealer (stores are closed but online orders and pickup are possible) but that special offer (3400 EUR) ended at midnight before I ordered it and I didn’t want to pay 4600 instead, so I got the 65” for 2200. Still not bad.

You’ll eventually get the 77, it’s what we do! I started with the 55 upstairs, then got the 77 for the living area. There’s still no better TV picture a year later... Gaming piece is a nice bonus. And 2077 has its flaws but they’ll keep developing it...

Cyberpunk - isn't that the new Tesla pickup??  

2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2019 Porsche 911 Turbo

Leawood911:

Carlos from Spain:

There it is, the mandatory Tesla plug  ... Christian wouldn't last a week with an X or Y before turning it back in 

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Do they still have that return policy?  It think they stopped that.
You have to admit RC put it out there and I’m not totally wrong. I would say the various Porsche based SUVs can also match these numbers. 

Nope, you can’t get this size of package into the Cayenne, don’t ask. 😂

Tesla? Dream on. Not even the X can do this. The Cybertruck isn’t out yet. 😛

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

RC:

Leawood911:

Carlos from Spain:

There it is, the mandatory Tesla plug  ... Christian wouldn't last a week with an X or Y before turning it back in 

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Do they still have that return policy?  It think they stopped that.
You have to admit RC put it out there and I’m not totally wrong. I would say the various Porsche based SUVs can also match these numbers. 

Nope, you can’t get this size of package into the Cayenne, don’t ask. 😂

Tesla? Dream on. Not even the X can do this. The Cybertruck isn’t out yet. 😛

--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

 

I was not aware of the size of your package. Thankfully

Small update regarding my Trackhawk (I have now almost 1600 km on the truck):

- Oil consumption basically zero, which is quite surprising because many owners report a higher oil consumption, especially during the first couple of thousands of kms.

- Acceleration from a stop (without launch control) is the best with the Auto drive setting. I tried Track mode and 0-100 kph decreased from a constant 3.7 seconds (tried with full tank, empty tank, passenger, etc.) to 3.9 seconds.

- Best driving mode Custom setup for maximum performance with a tad of comfort left is to leave everything similar to Auto mode but to switch suspension to Sport and steering to Track. This provides the best steering feel and sporty chassis feel without compromising comfort too much (suspension Track mode is really stiff).

- Average fuel consumption is currently around 23 l/100 km, which is bad of course but this includes some fast Autobahn driving (up to 240 kph, limited by winter tires) as well. Speaking of Autobahn driving: Average fuel consumption on the Autobahn (as fast as possible, always full throttle but limited to 240 kph due to winter tires) was around 26 l/100 km. Ouch. I don't want to know how high fuel consumption will be when I pass 240 kph. 

- I really enjoy the Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde character of this car: When I barely apply the throttle ("normal" driving in the city for example), the car is very quiet and comfortable. Once I accelerate a little bit more, the sound increases, outside and inside but it is still bearable. Press the throttle down completely and the devil comes out to play, the sound (inside but especially outside) is amazing and hell breaks loose. Wonderful setup in my opinion. Especially when you do not want to attract too much attention. 

- The seats in the Trackhawk are surprisingly comfortable but also offer some side-grip.

- Valet mode is quite usable, especially for a beginner. The truck isn't fast in this mode (0-100 kph in 9.7 seconds) but slow looks different. I wish Jeep would give the Trackhawk a little bit more power in Valet mode but for letting your kid drive to the next supermarket or whatever, Valet mode is definitely OK.  The Trackhawk behaves very calm, the engine is barely engaging in Valet mode. My son told me that there is a way to circumvent Valet mode, haven't checked on it yet, so I'm not so sure it is safe if you want to prevent your teenager from using the full power of the truck. 

- Exhaust sound at idle(!) is a little bit muted, actually a little bit disappointing. You can hear the V8 but it is very subtle. It is possible to improve the idle sound by removing just  the middle muffler (also called "suitcase muffler" because it has a flat design) but unfortunately this is not legal in Germany. A company here offers a x-pipe instead but again, not legal and I would also loose the 4 year warranty. Not an option, sadly.

So far, I am very happy with the Trackhawk but it attracts more attention than I wanted, which may also be related to the color (red). No negative experiences yet though, my customers haven't even really noticed the Trackhawk or just don't care because it is a Jeep.  Germans seem to have the general misconception that all Jeeps are off-roaders, so a Jeep isn't necessarily considered a SUV and it is SUVs Germans often have issues with. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

Cool...Italian police uses bullet proof Grand Cherokees for special assignments. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

Another Review Update after 2000 km: 

- No issues so far. Knock on wood.  

- Performance is amazing (had an Audi RS6 Performance, previous generation, encounter on the Autobahn, I pulled away slowly in the 120 to 240 kph speed range, we did this a couple of times) but could be favoured by the currently low outside temperatures (around 0°C or 32°F). We have to see in the summer...

- Snow driving capabilities are excellent, this truck is a monster in snow. Braking is of course a different story in snow, this thing weights 2.5 tons but it is manageable. I love my Pirelli Scorpion winter tires, they really work well with the Trackhawk, even on dry pavement or on wet roads. 

- The sound of the Uconnect entertainment system impresses me over and over again, it sounds so good. None of my previous cars had such a good sounding sound system, it is very close to Burmester in the Cayenne/Panamera. Especially listening to dance music with a lot of bass is a treat, there are no distortions. Impressive: I leave the bass at the 0 setting because otherwise, it would be too much. Again, very impressive sound system in this price range.

- I set up the steering to Track mode in Custom mode and it is much more pleasant to drive in this setting because the standard setting is a little bit too indifferent and requires a little bit more in-steering in curves. On the Autobahn however, the more sensitive track steering can be an issue at higher speeds, it becomes a little bit "nervous", especially if the Autobahn is a little bit bumpy. 

- I set up the suspension to Sport mode, not Track mode in Custom mode, so there is more comfort. The ride isn't exactly comfortable in this setting but it is acceptable. 

- Exhaust sound at idle has improved a tiny bit but you still cannot hear much of a V8 sound at idle. Only very subtle. I do not understand why FCA went this way (they know how to do it differently with the Charger and Challenger, even the new RAM TRX) but at least it is an acceptable sound for German roads. Until you floor it. 

- Fuel consumption is still how it is, I have to live with it. Worth every cent though for the fun I have with this truck. Maybe I should try the Eco mode but actually, I don't really care.

- Throttle response impresses me each and every day, this is much better than any turbo charged car I have ever driven. A job well done, FCA.

- I finally got used to the brake system, in particular the soft braking feel. It is not a very precise feel, especially for a 2.5 ton truck but the brake system is capable and does it's job. Even from higher speeds (240 kph) on the Autobahn, the brake works excellent, without any fade or whatever. This may be also related to the low outside temperatures right now in Germany, I'll have to see how good (or bad) the brake will be in summer.

- The seats are still very comfortable, my wife officially declared the Trackhawk to be the car with the most comfortable seats she ever drove in. They still offer a decent side grip in curves.

- Only god knows why Jeep used in a 2019 top model Bi-Xenon headlights instead of LED headlights. The Bi-Xenon tech is outdated and it shows. The light is OK but every time I switch from the GLC 63S or the Performante to the Trackhawk and it is dark, I get the feeling that something is wrong with the Trackhawk's headlights. 

- Oil consumption is still basically zero, nothing has changed. Impressive, especially since I was hammering on the throttle for the past 1100 km or so, including some couple of hundreds of kms on the Autobahn. Maybe a reason why the engine runs that well?!

- My 86 years old mother had neck pain after I fully accelerated with her from a stop. She loved the feeling in the stomach, not so much the neck pain afterwards. The acceleration from a stop in the Trackhawk is one of the most brutal experiences, this 2.5 ton truck basically instantly(!) jumps forward. There is no delay and no slip. My wife got nausea after I did the same with her, she asked me not to do this anymore. She never said that before. The acceleration feel in the Trackhawk is really quite unique, I don't have a clue why. 

Yes, I am happy with my decision to get such a dinosaur. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)