Crown

I love this car. Congratulations!

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

Gnil:

Grant:

Awesome! Welcome to the F-Series with Bosch Mechanical Fuel Injection (nothing else sounds and drives quite like this) 

And demands regular tuning 😁

Congrats on the beautiful purchase. The color suits the car well. Nearly a shame to change anything on it. 

Hi Eric - Actually, there is no tuning required if the system is in good condition.  After my engine rebuild, my mechanic booked us time on a chassis dyno to dial in the fuel injection tuning.  We trailered the car there (didn't want to drive it until we knew the tuning was ok), hooked it up to the dyno, and made several runs with live video of all the engine parameters on a big screen.  My mechanic had brought a selection of tools to make fine adjustments.  After running the car on the dyno for over an hour with all different throttle settings and loads, he decided that zero adjustments were necessary.

Having owned several engines with MFI, you almost never need to touch the system (like years or decades).  I have a dash mounted Motec Lambda digital display that shows the mixture in real time as I drive just to know for sure.  The system is rock stable.  If the pump or stacks are worn or not in great condition, I imagine things could be different.

The system even makes adjustments for barometric pressure changes (due to elevation or temperature fluctuations - very useful when living near the mountains).  It is an analog computer - very cool system, imo.  I absolutely love the throttle response and sound with the 6 velocity stacks and throttles.

In the 20 years since I first owned an MFI car, I have had only one related issue.  My 73S suddenly started running very poorly.  I figured it was a major problem.  I was able to limp the car over to my mechanic's shop.  It turned out that the MFI belt (the pump is belt-driven from one of the camshafts) had lost some of its teeth (the belt was probably original from 1973 and this was nearly 30 years later) and so the timing of the fuel being injected was totally off with the position of the pistons in the engine.  When I arrived at the mechanic's, I was prepared for very bad (and expensive news).  But it was back to 100% with a $12 belt and 30 minutes labor 

And while I never have had an MFI issue with my current car, I did have the pump rebuilt as preventative maintenance during the first engine rebuild (about 10 years ago).

--

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Gnil:

 

Congrats on the beautiful purchase. The color suits the car well. Nearly a shame to change anything on it. 

am not really changing things. will add a passenger side rear view mirror, Fuchs wheels period correct.

the wheels on the car will remain in my possession.

Porsche classic radio with apple car play and navigation.

100l fuel tank that is offered by Porsche classic. I will use this car for touring in Europe in summer time so I regard above options as essential.

we might tune up the suspension with 2.7 RS parts for better handling and highway cruising. nothing major. so certainly the car will remain period correct and look as it does now.

Grant:

Gnil:

Grant:

Awesome! Welcome to the F-Series with Bosch Mechanical Fuel Injection (nothing else sounds and drives quite like this) 

And demands regular tuning 😁

Congrats on the beautiful purchase. The color suits the car well. Nearly a shame to change anything on it. 

Hi Eric - Actually, there is no tuning required if the system is in good condition.  After my engine rebuild, my mechanic booked us time on a chassis dyno to dial in the fuel injection tuning.  We trailered the car there (didn't want to drive it until we knew the tuning was ok), hooked it up to the dyno, and made several runs with live video of all the engine parameters on a big screen.  My mechanic had brought a selection of tools to make fine adjustments.  After running the car on the dyno for over an hour with all different throttle settings and loads, he decided that zero adjustments were necessary.

Having owned several engines with MFI, you almost never need to touch the system (like years or decades).  I have a dash mounted Motec Lambda digital display that shows the mixture in real time as I drive just to know for sure.  The system is rock stable.  If the pump or stacks are worn or not in great condition, I imagine things could be different.

The system even makes adjustments for barometric pressure changes (due to elevation or temperature fluctuations - very useful when living near the mountains).  It is an analog computer - very cool system, imo.  I absolutely love the throttle response and sound with the 6 velocity stacks and throttles.

In the 20 years since I first owned an MFI car, I have had only one related issue.  My 73S suddenly started running very poorly.  I figured it was a major problem.  I was able to limp the car over to my mechanic's shop.  It turned out that the MFI belt (the pump is belt-driven from one of the camshafts) had lost some of its teeth (the belt was probably original from 1973 and this was nearly 30 years later) and so the timing of the fuel being injected was totally off with the position of the pistons in the engine.  When I arrived at the mechanic's, I was prepared for very bad (and expensive news).  But it was back to 100% with a $12 belt and 30 minutes labor 

And while I never have had an MFI issue with my current car, I did have the pump rebuilt as preventative maintenance during the first engine rebuild (about 10 years ago).

--

 

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

 

Very informative. Thanks. I mentioned that because at some stage I was looking at a 2.7 carrera (not RS) and did talk with the guy who was selling it and he mentioned the MFI needing special care. Maybe it as his car only. 
The extra noises from the MFI add to the visceral sensations from that engine. Good to know if I ever get one .

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

First thought this car would be changed into a proper rally car, got used to that with you  .... The adds on you mention make perfectly sense. I would do them too. Fuchs wheels will look better . You also want the car to handle properly. Nice to have old but better if it does not drive like a granny . 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Beautiful congratulations. Conda green is a stunning color. Also it is very useful that it has Recaro seats as those are much more comfortable (plus they look better than the standard seats). Manfred Hering is a very reputable dealer/restorer.

Cool.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

Gnil:

Grant:

Gnil:

Grant:

Awesome! Welcome to the F-Series with Bosch Mechanical Fuel Injection (nothing else sounds and drives quite like this) 

And demands regular tuning 😁

Congrats on the beautiful purchase. The color suits the car well. Nearly a shame to change anything on it. 

Hi Eric - Actually, there is no tuning required if the system is in good condition.  After my engine rebuild, my mechanic booked us time on a chassis dyno to dial in the fuel injection tuning.  We trailered the car there (didn't want to drive it until we knew the tuning was ok), hooked it up to the dyno, and made several runs with live video of all the engine parameters on a big screen.  My mechanic had brought a selection of tools to make fine adjustments.  After running the car on the dyno for over an hour with all different throttle settings and loads, he decided that zero adjustments were necessary.

Having owned several engines with MFI, you almost never need to touch the system (like years or decades).  I have a dash mounted Motec Lambda digital display that shows the mixture in real time as I drive just to know for sure.  The system is rock stable.  If the pump or stacks are worn or not in great condition, I imagine things could be different.

The system even makes adjustments for barometric pressure changes (due to elevation or temperature fluctuations - very useful when living near the mountains).  It is an analog computer - very cool system, imo.  I absolutely love the throttle response and sound with the 6 velocity stacks and throttles.

In the 20 years since I first owned an MFI car, I have had only one related issue.  My 73S suddenly started running very poorly.  I figured it was a major problem.  I was able to limp the car over to my mechanic's shop.  It turned out that the MFI belt (the pump is belt-driven from one of the camshafts) had lost some of its teeth (the belt was probably original from 1973 and this was nearly 30 years later) and so the timing of the fuel being injected was totally off with the position of the pistons in the engine.  When I arrived at the mechanic's, I was prepared for very bad (and expensive news).  But it was back to 100% with a $12 belt and 30 minutes labor 

And while I never have had an MFI issue with my current car, I did have the pump rebuilt as preventative maintenance during the first engine rebuild (about 10 years ago).

--

 

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

 

Very informative. Thanks. I mentioned that because at some stage I was looking at a 2.7 carrera (not RS) and did talk with the guy who was selling it and he mentioned the MFI needing special care. Maybe it as his car only. 
The extra noises from the MFI add to the visceral sensations from that engine. Good to know if I ever get one .

hi gnil.....for all I know the 2.7 engine is the real problem child of the older 911's. the case was not very strong.

so I believe either 2.4 or the later 3.0

m4ever:

Beautiful congratulations. Conda green is a stunning color. Also it is very useful that it has Recaro seats as those are much more comfortable (plus they look better than the standard seats). Manfred Hering is a very reputable dealer/restorer.

I deal with Manfred personally and he is great guy to deal with. very straight forward knowledgable and trustworthy.

I follow his advice with my decisions.

yes, its great the car has the original recaros.

--
Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

intouch1:

 

hi gnil.....for all I know the 2.7 engine is the real problem child of the older 911's. the case was not very strong.

so I believe either 2.4 or the later 3.0

I have let go of the 2.7 in any form. Prices are  too high for me for what I want to do with the car (use it as a summer DD). And sounds like it would just be problems.

The 3.0 is the one actually on my bucket list. It is the perfect combination of still low weight and a good engine. But they were made in very low numbers. Not many come around, and even less , nice ones. A 1977 model would be perfect. 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

I owned a 3.0 SC (not the original 1976-77 Carrera 3.0) for some time and it was a joy to drive and a strong car. In dry weather doing 200+ km/h was easy and stable. In the rain it was quite safe with its narrow 205/225 tyres. Wheels lock easily however and braking needs  care.

If you go for 3.0 SC choose the1981+ model with 204 PS. The fuel injection is Bosch CIS and works well.

Better still in  that body style, is the Carrera 3.2 from 1984, with 237 PS and Bosch L-Jetronic fuel injection. In later years it was fitted with the G50 gearbox which operated significantly better than the original 915 gearbox.

I regret selling the 3.0 SC, mainly due to lack of space, as I live in the centre of my city. This model is appreciating in the UK and there is good market there for the RHD version that I owned.

--

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

intouch1:  hi gnil.....for all I know the 2.7 engine is the real problem child of the older 911's. the case was not very strong.

so I believe either 2.4 or the later 3.0

The bad reputation for the 2.7L comes from the US-spec 1974-1977 911 2.7L CIS cars.  They had thermal reactors and smaller cooling fans that were installed for US emissions compliance.  This caused major overheating and related issues.  They also had very poor performance.

The 2.7L MFI motors (on 73 Carrera RS and 74-77 Euro Carrera which were never imported to US) do not suffer from these issues.

The 2.4L and 2.7L motors have the identical 7R Magnesium case (only difference is larger 90mm bore pistons and cylinders bolted to the case on the 2.7L).

The case in the 2.4 and 2.7 motors is actually a bit stronger than the 5R Magnesium cases used in the 2.0L and 2.2L motors in 69-71 model years.  My motor has added shuffle pins (which helps limit movement between the case halves), oil passage mods, and clearance for a larger oil pump from a 964 that further helps reliability.

Here is an illustration showing what shuffle pins looks like:

--

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

reginos:

I owned a 3.0 SC (not the original 1976-77 Carrera 3.0) for some time and it was a joy to drive and a strong car. In dry weather doing 200+ km/h was easy and stable. In the rain it was quite safe with its narrow 205/225 tyres. Wheels lock easily however and braking needs  care.

If you go for 3.0 SC choose the1981+ model with 204 PS. The fuel injection is Bosch CIS and works well.

Better still in  that body style, is the Carrera 3.2 from 1984, with 237 PS and Bosch L-Jetronic fuel injection. In later years it was fitted with the G50 gearbox which operated significantly better than the original 915 gearbox.

I regret selling the 3.0 SC, mainly due to lack of space, as I live in the centre of my city. This model is appreciating in the UK and there is good market there for the RHD version that I owned.

 

--

 

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

 

We are always more clever after ..... 

I am actually looking for the Carrera 3.0 ( 1976-1977 )  , as it is lighter and more powerful then the 3.0 SC that came right after.  I agree with you, that then it jumps to a 1984 3.2, but personally I then prefer going all the way to a 964.

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

true grant....then again all 2.7 MFI command quite a premium and are for the collector

gnil, my other targa is an 83 3.0 SC and its a great car. I had the engine rebuilt and upgraded by early911s and it now delivers power very similar to the 3.2

my rally car was a late 77 3.0 SC and that engine now runs pro carbs

the SC is far better than its reputation

Gnil:

reginos:

I owned a 3.0 SC (not the original 1976-77 Carrera 3.0) for some time and it was a joy to drive and a strong car. In dry weather doing 200+ km/h was easy and stable. In the rain it was quite safe with its narrow 205/225 tyres. Wheels lock easily however and braking needs  care.

If you go for 3.0 SC choose the1981+ model with 204 PS. The fuel injection is Bosch CIS and works well.

Better still in  that body style, is the Carrera 3.2 from 1984, with 237 PS and Bosch L-Jetronic fuel injection. In later years it was fitted with the G50 gearbox which operated significantly better than the original 915 gearbox.

I regret selling the 3.0 SC, mainly due to lack of space, as I live in the centre of my city. This model is appreciating in the UK and there is good market there for the RHD version that I owned.

 

--

 

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

 

We are always more clever after ..... 

I am actually looking for the Carrera 3.0 ( 1976-1977 )  , as it is lighter and more powerful then the 3.0 SC that came right after.  I agree with you, that then it jumps to a 1984 3.2, but personally I then prefer going all the way to a 964.

True the Carrera 3.0 is some 50-60 kg lighter. However, at below 1.100 kg both these cars are superlight by todays standards. The same  weight as a normal Yaris.

The power is practically the same on later SC versions (204 vs 200 PS).

However the SC started in 1978 with only 180 PS and this gave the model a negative reception. That was rectified from 1981 onwards. The SC also has a brake booster, easier clutch and better cabin ventilation.

But still among enthusiasts the Carrera 3.0 is the more coveted car, partly because only 4.000 were produced worldwide. A good investment if you find the right car.

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

I only got the 83 cause it was a 2 owner car with 30k kilometres on the clock and the second owner is a very good friend.

otherwise I would have certainly stayed 70's. but that car was too good to pass on.

Another great looking Targa.  Too bad the current Targa variants appear so bloated compared with the earlier cars.  

intouch1:

tmy rally car was a late 77 3.0 SC and that engine now runs pro carbs

the SC is far better than its reputation

An SC with Carbs is a great upgrade over CIS 

Carbs are very easily adapted to more aggressive camshafts too (like 964 for instance) and better flowing exhaust which can be lots of fun.

--

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Grant:

intouch1:

tmy rally car was a late 77 3.0 SC and that engine now runs pro carbs

the SC is far better than its reputation

An SC with Carbs is a great upgrade over CIS 

Carbs are very easily adapted to more aggressive camshafts too (like 964 for instance) and better flowing exhaust which can be lots of fun.

--

 

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

 

pmo carbs it was meant to say

yes the engine pulls very strong especially with the short rally gearing I have.

intouch1:

Grant:

intouch1:

tmy rally car was a late 77 3.0 SC and that engine now runs pro carbs

the SC is far better than its reputation

An SC with Carbs is a great upgrade over CIS 

Carbs are very easily adapted to more aggressive camshafts too (like 964 for instance) and better flowing exhaust which can be lots of fun.

--

 

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

 

pmo carbs it was meant to say

yes the engine pulls very strong especially with the short rally gearing I have.

I figured you meant PMO.  I have short gearing too - really wakes up the cars 

Nice SSI Headers/Heat Exchangers in your pic - I use the same (minimal power penalty and the comfort of heat/defrost in the winter or rain)

--

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

intouch1:

 

gnil, my other targa is an 83 3.0 SC and its a great car. I had the engine rebuilt and upgraded by early911s and it now delivers power very similar to the 3.2

my rally car was a late 77 3.0 SC and that engine now runs pro carbs

the SC is far better than its reputation

Your input and Grant' s comments may make me look also into a SC 1981 and onwards. I was stuck with the idea that the SC is a much lesser car then the 3.0 Carrera .  I did not check the weight difference, but the SC is probably heavier.

As I would change the car to my likings anyway ( sort of a Singer ) , finding a correctly priced SC would be easier. Will see.

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

I definitely would vouch for the SC....you have 3l and you can easily get 230 hp out of it as I did on my targa or up to 280-300 as my rally car with pmo carbs if that's something you would want.

the Carrera 3.0 commands higher prices because it was produced in small numbers...

if you will collect and resell go for higher value car....if you will drive and enjoy, go for whatever suits your budget and modify.

the 2.2 I went for is an E. while still high value, the 2.2 S would be the one to go for if future reselling would be my main motivation.

the 2.2 E I am getting was mechanically, drivetrain and engine uprated to S spec.....so basically its an S and that is what I really care for.

It would be a car to drive , enjoy, and mod to my likings,  not to collect. I have now open my research to the SC.

As you say, at the end it would not make a difference once it is upgraded to my likings . Actually with the Carrera 3.0, it would be a shame to modify it too much as it is already too close to a collector. 

How do you like your 2.2 compared to your SC Targa ( driving feel, engine ) ?

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Gnil:

intouch1:

 

gnil, my other targa is an 83 3.0 SC and its a great car. I had the engine rebuilt and upgraded by early911s and it now delivers power very similar to the 3.2

my rally car was a late 77 3.0 SC and that engine now runs pro carbs

the SC is far better than its reputation

Your input and Grant' s comments may make me look also into a SC 1981 and onwards. I was stuck with the idea that the SC is a much lesser car then the 3.0 Carrera .  I did not check the weight difference, but the SC is probably heavier.

As I would change the car to my likings anyway ( sort of a Singer ) , finding a correctly priced SC would be easier. Will see.

Hi Eric - one thing you may want to keep in mind is the change from a 915 gearbox in the 911SC and early Carrera 3.2 to the G50 gearbox in the late Carrera 3.2 (starting with MY 1987). Some people much prefer the shifting of the G50 - this is the gearbox used in the 964 and 993 (6spd version). 

If you are going for a car like a Singer, maybe the more modern feel of the G50 suits it better.  I happen to like the 915 (it has more feel in its cable operated clutch vs. the hydraulic clutch of the G50), its gear ratios are a bit lower, and it's lighter.  But my 915 has 5-figures worth of upgrades to make it shift better and to be stronger.  The 915 has a tendency to be more balky and temperamental when shifting (sometimes needs careful rev matching or even double-clutching to make it go into gear).  Maybe drive both before you decide (I think you already know how the G50 feels).

If you want to use a G50, then you want a 1987 or later chassis (the G50 does not easily fit into the earlier chassis).

--

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Gnil:

It would be a car to drive , enjoy, and mod to my likings,  not to collect. I have now open my research to the SC.

As you say, at the end it would not make a difference once it is upgraded to my likings . Actually with the Carrera 3.0, it would be a shame to modify it too much as it is already too close to a collector. 

How do you like your 2.2 compared to your SC Targa ( driving feel, engine ) ?

I have not driven the 2.2 yet. I bought it unseen. but I have full trust cause they work with me on a personal basis.

I have driven a 2.4 S though that was brand new by them. and that engine needs to be revved to get the car moving. which I liked. the 3l has plenty pf torque and is a very daily drivable engine.

but I am on the search for even more character i.e classic driving feel and not after ultimate power. I want it light nimble and classic hence a 1970 2.2 versus another younger car. I already have that in my 83 targa.

personally too I prefer the 915 simply as it has more character and to me that's the whole fun of it.

the 2.2 has a 911/01 dogleg transmission

I have tried once the 915 boxe on a completely modified 3.2 who had been converted to a 2.7 RS look alike . When cold gears were very hard to change and then one had to do all movements slowly and precisely, Going back into 1st was a challenge   Actually I like it a lot , made the driving interesting.  Then for a DD maybe not the most practical, but so much charm. 

I would indeed  have to try the 915 boxe again. 

  Carrera 3.0 : 1120 kg ,

    911 SC :    1210 kg  for Eurepeen models, 1240 kg for US models ,                        

--

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Gnil:

I have tried once the 915 boxe on a completely modified 3.2 who had been converted to a 2.7 RS look alike . When cold gears were very hard to change and then one had to do all movements slowly and precisely, Going back into 1st was a challenge   Actually I like it a lot , made the driving interesting.  Then for a DD maybe not the most practical, but so much charm. 

I would indeed  have to try the 915 boxe again. 

  Carrera 3.0 : 1120 kg ,

    911 SC :    1210 kg  for Eurepeen models, 1240 kg for US models ,                        

 

--

 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

 

230hp with 1200kg will feel better than 200hp with 1120kg 

the 915 isn't that bad at all when you get used to it.its fun....

Porsche 911 SC 
180 PS (1977 - 1978)
- Gewicht:1090kg
- Leistungsgewicht: 6,06

Porsche 911 SC 
188 PS (1979 - 1979)
- Gewicht: 1160kg
- Leistungsgewicht: 6,17
 

Porsche 911 SC 
204 PS (1980 - 1982)
- Gewicht:1160kg
- Leistungsgewicht: 5,69

Porsche 911 Carrera 3.0
200 PS (1975 - 1977)
- Gewicht:1120kg
- Leistungsgewicht: 5,60

A fluid swap in the 915 to something like Swepco should help.