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    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Porker:
    crayphile:
    Porker:

    I take back anything mean/negative I might have said about the 812, 

    Glad you have seen the light Smiley. The older V12 cars you have mentioned will have completely different driving dynamics though. 

    I agree, but I wouldn't mind a V12 to be a softer proposition. I don't need the 812 to be as hyperactive as it is tbh.

    Here's Ferrari's way to tell you it was a good drive.

    IMG_3977.jpg

    Better than Lamborghini: I had both my cats replaced. Smiley Now I got a new software which improves catalysator temp substantially and no, the exhaust sound and performance are still great. Yes, I was worried.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Porker:
     

    I agree, but I wouldn't mind a V12 to be a softer proposition. I don't need the 812 to be as hyperactive as it is tbh.

    Here's Ferrari's way to tell you it was a good drive.

    How about this future upgrade for sunny days, not EU friendly  for 6-7 months Smiley

    It's on my upcoming list, once the P Zero's run out of grip.

     

     


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    I have to confess to being curious about the Cup2 R also - I would guess that I'll do it once and never again Smiley


    --

     

    22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Unless your roads are always dry


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Quite a surprising update for the 812, it gets a new heart. The factory granted it an entirely new “big block” as they call it, so the engine block and its ancillaries will be replaced with new parts. Reason being it always threw up warning messages during long drives, nothing could be felt however but not something you want on a long drive. Various dealers investigated without result, until Ferrari ordered to have the engine topped up with oil and then sealed and then drive 1000km and check the level again. Turns out it exceeds the maximum they allow, and therefore it now gets a hearttransplant. First time I experience that with any car.


    --

    1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Must have been a Friday afternoon engine.......

    Or maybe during the World Cup Italy game........


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    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Does this affect the value anyhow, being a Ferrari? 


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    That’s pretty good service, right? 


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    💞


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    spudgun:

    Does this affect the value anyhow, being a Ferrari? 

    I have no idea, I guess it would. For some reason, even if it's a good thing that an engine has been changed for a new one, I'm always skeptical when I see that being advertised. I guess I'm not alone in that.


    --

    1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Can you have the old block for a coffee table?


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Maybe you drove the car too much ? angry


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Gnil:

    Maybe you drove the car too much ? angry

    Smiley


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Gnil:

    Maybe you drove the car too much ? angry

    Maybe too fast? Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Porker:

    Quite a surprising update for the 812, it gets a new heart. The factory granted it an entirely new “big block” as they call it, so the engine block and its ancillaries will be replaced with new parts. Reason being it always threw up warning messages during long drives, nothing could be felt however but not something you want on a long drive. Various dealers investigated without result, until Ferrari ordered to have the engine topped up with oil and then sealed and then drive 1000km and check the level again. Turns out it exceeds the maximum they allow, and therefore it now gets a hearttransplant. First time I experience that with any car.

    What was the problem? Oil consumption outside the allowed norm?

    What sort of warning messages appeared? Related to the actual problem or random?

    On the question of whether the value of the car will be reduced, in my way of thinking I would prefer a used Ferrari with a new engine from the factory with the latest updated parts etc. than one who could develop problems during my future ownership.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    spudgun:

    Can you have the old block for a coffee table?

    I have asked Smiley


    --

    1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    reginos:
    Porker:

    Quite a surprising update for the 812, it gets a new heart. The factory granted it an entirely new “big block” as they call it, so the engine block and its ancillaries will be replaced with new parts. Reason being it always threw up warning messages during long drives, nothing could be felt however but not something you want on a long drive. Various dealers investigated without result, until Ferrari ordered to have the engine topped up with oil and then sealed and then drive 1000km and check the level again. Turns out it exceeds the maximum they allow, and therefore it now gets a hearttransplant. First time I experience that with any car.

    What was the problem? Oil consumption outside the allowed norm?

    What sort of warning messages appeared? Related to the actual problem or random?

    On the question of whether the value of the car will be reduced, in my way of thinking I would prefer a used Ferrari with a new engine from the factory with the latest updated parts etc. than one who could develop problems during my future ownership.

    They allow a maximum oil consumption of 1l/1000km, it exceeded that apparently. Message was 'Engine management issue / visit dealer", but no loss in performance or anything of the sort.

    Regarding value, I assume most buyers would prefer to have a car with 'matching numbers', depends what you want to do with it I guess. If you're looking for one to drive, this would be the best one around I assume.


    --

    1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Not to take away from how special your car is but, wouldn’t the matching numbers thing matter more if it was a collectible model instead of a “standard” car? Like you said, if you want to drive the car a new engine would be a great thing to have. 


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    I think V12 front engined Ferrari cars will definitely become collectible. These cars are the continuation of the Daytona legend.

    However, I'd rather have the fresh engine now and enjoy, than worry about a possible depreciation from maximum value in the long-term (which might not happen anyway), when such cars will become collectible.


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Enmanuel:

    Not to take away from how special your car is but, wouldn’t the matching numbers thing matter more if it was a collectible model instead of a “standard” car? Like you said, if you want to drive the car a new engine would be a great thing to have. 

    Of course, I just consider a lot of Ferrari buyers would probably like to think that way, hence as well all that low mileage bla bla. I agree that that doesn't make sense at all on a series production car.


    --

    1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Porker:
    reginos:
    Porker:

    Quite a surprising update for the 812, it gets a new heart. The factory granted it an entirely new “big block” as they call it, so the engine block and its ancillaries will be replaced with new parts. Reason being it always threw up warning messages during long drives, nothing could be felt however but not something you want on a long drive. Various dealers investigated without result, until Ferrari ordered to have the engine topped up with oil and then sealed and then drive 1000km and check the level again. Turns out it exceeds the maximum they allow, and therefore it now gets a hearttransplant. First time I experience that with any car.

    What was the problem? Oil consumption outside the allowed norm?

    What sort of warning messages appeared? Related to the actual problem or random?

    On the question of whether the value of the car will be reduced, in my way of thinking I would prefer a used Ferrari with a new engine from the factory with the latest updated parts etc. than one who could develop problems during my future ownership.

    They allow a maximum oil consumption of 1l/1000km, it exceeded that apparently. Message was 'Engine management issue / visit dealer", but no loss in performance or anything of the sort.

    Regarding value, I assume most buyers would prefer to have a car with 'matching numbers', depends what you want to do with it I guess. If you're looking for one to drive, this would be the best one around I assume.

    Hmm, even with the replacement engine, you car will still have matching numbers. 

    Factory authorized the engine swap, so in their own record books your car's VIN is matched with the new engine number. No different than any other car that left the factory.

    Non-matching numbers means someone swapped engine without factory authorization. Rare however.

     


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    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    I think there is a mismatch because the body would have XXXX miles but the engine a fraction of XXXX miles. This should be recorded on the car documents I would think.


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    wantone:

    I think there is a mismatch because the body would have XXXX miles but the engine a fraction of XXXX miles. This should be recorded on the car documents I would think.

     

    It doesn't work that way. Calling something that's numbers matched means having the factory verify chassis number matching engine number. In this case, it will as the factory authorize the replacement and their records will reflect this chassis carries the current engine number.

    Not unlike say a new car suffers some engine malfunction during testing and the factory had to replace the engine before the car getting shipped out to dealer. 

    Porsche went through just about the same thing with all those 991 GT3 getting new engines. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    another question would be if that is info that would have to be disclosed come resale time.

    it is a factory original swap. so it is original and recorded. so basically no different to any other Part on the car that would be replaced by the factory. lets say an instrument cluster. would that need to be disclosed ? I do not think so.

    accident damage is a different matter of course.


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    If you ever sell it, Porker,  just don’t sign the papers on the engine block coffee table. 


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    intouch1:

    another question would be if that is info that would have to be disclosed come resale time.

    it is a factory original swap. so it is original and recorded. so basically no different to any other Part on the car that would be replaced by the factory. lets say an instrument cluster. would that need to be disclosed ? I do not think so.

    If someone didn't disclose to me an engine or gearbox change, I would consider it very dodgy, similar to concealing a serious accident. A new engine is a bonus and non-disclosure means that something was done wrongly IMO.

    Serious buyers would be happy if the proposed car received a new engine from the factory. Some others might try to turn it in their favour when negotiating. I would pass by the latter type of buyer.

    In our small market in the mid-2000 a disproportionate number of 996 Carrera 4S cars received new engines from the factory due to the IMS issue. These cars became more sought after than the rest. More so when the car in question is a Ferrari with a super expensive V12 engine.


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    spudgun:

    If you ever sell it, Porker,  just don’t sign the papers on the engine block coffee table. 

    🤣

    I think the worries of most in this scenario might be that the assembly is not done in factory but at a dealer, which might perhaps be more prone to human error if anything.


    --

    1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    And the 991.1 GT3 engine saga continues indecision J/K

    Could it be the first owner didn't follow the break-in procedure for the first 1,500 km ?

    I've had couple of brand new xyz cars with electrical / mechanical parts fitted from the factory that were replaced under warranty by my dealer(s) within 2-3 months, can't always rely on the the factory doing a perfect job, just saying  yes


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    spudgun:

    If you ever sell it, Porker,  just don’t sign the papers on the engine block coffee table. 

    Smiley Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    I've joined you in the V12 Verde British club with this GTS model. I have a factory order in for a new GTS but got a call from my dealer on Wednesday to say that Ferrari had just advised them my build slot has been pushed back from this April into 2023 with no firm build month as yet. It seems a few customers have suffered the same blow so I suspect Ferrari are concentrating their V12 production line on the more lucrative SP3, 812 Compezione and 812 CompezioneA models this year.

    Luckily I had started a conversation with a couple of dealers a few months back to call me if any Verde British or Verde Zeltweg cars came into their stock and yesterday I got the call about this car so I booked a viewing this morning and drove over to see it. I'm glad I booked an early viewing as the number of people there looking to buy something today was incredible. I think the dealer must have sold around £2m worth of stock in the first couple of hours of opening this morning. I had no hesitation in agreeing to buy this car and there was another guy there desperately hoping I was going to pass on it so he could have it.

    IMG_1925.JPG


     
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