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Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.
In the Merc SLR (ceramic brakes also) test in fifth gear they said that in wet conditions the discs are continiously "massaged" by the pads to keep'em dry (or warm, dunno). I suppose this is to make the brakes perform 100% from the moment you step on the brake... but that doesn't mean they don't brake in wet. Should be the same with pccb's I suppose. Plus you've read W8MM 
Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.
This car is really cool, but the problems with this car, and with PCNA are not.
I have no hidden agenda. So, the next time you're clipping down the Pike at 75 in the rain, see how your spongy brakes react when you are comming up on the back of a tractor trailer. I'll pray for you.
jb
I have no hidden agenda. So, the next time you're clipping down the Pike at 75 in the rain, see how your spongy brakes react when you are comming up on the back of a tractor trailer. I'll pray for you.
jb
Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.
Quote:
Arrixok said:
In the Merc SLR (ceramic brakes also) test in fifth gear they said that in wet conditions the discs are continiously "massaged" by the pads to keep'em dry (or warm, dunno). I suppose this is to make the brakes perform 100% from the moment you step on the brake... but that doesn't mean they don't brake in wet. Should be the same with pccb's I suppose. Plus you've read W8MM
This is a MB technology, and has not been adapted by other mfg's as yet.
Jan 6, 2005 7:40:41 PM
- Jeff (in SF)
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- Loc: SF, CA, USA , United States
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- Reply to: jboyko
Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.
Quote:
jboyko said:
This car is really cool, but the problems with this car, and with PCNA are not.
I have no hidden agenda. So, the next time you're clipping down the Pike at 75 in the rain, see how your spongy brakes react when you are comming up on the back of a tractor trailer. I'll pray for you.
jb
The fact you say 'spongy' indicates to me that you might not even have such a car. Brakes are spongy if they're fading - usually from extreme heat - which is what the ceramics are best at avoiding. If brakes aren't working due to wetness, the pedal feel will still be firm. I smell something fishy here....
Jan 6, 2005 7:53:35 PM
- jboyko
- Co-Pilot
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- Loc: NEWARK, NJ
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PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.
Actually Jeff, the brakes work pretty damn good when they are hot and in the rain. They kind of feel better when wet and hot, than cold and dry.
The pedal is spongy when wet and cold. The pedal is not firm in these conditions, it's scarry.
As for the fishy smell, take a bath.
jb
The pedal is spongy when wet and cold. The pedal is not firm in these conditions, it's scarry.
As for the fishy smell, take a bath.
jb
Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.
Quote:
Rasta said:Quote:
Arrixok said:
In the Merc SLR (ceramic brakes also) test in fifth gear they said that in wet conditions the discs are continiously "massaged" by the pads to keep'em dry (or warm, dunno). I suppose this is to make the brakes perform 100% from the moment you step on the brake... but that doesn't mean they don't brake in wet. Should be the same with pccb's I suppose. Plus you've read W8MM
This is a MB technology, and has not been adapted by other mfg's as yet.
Yes, MB uses it tech (keep it dry) for the E-class and BMW is going to use it on the new 3. Just wonder would it shorten the life of the brake pads and discs!?
Quote from MB brochure:
Automatic brake drying applies the brakes lightly and briefly based on windshield wiper use and driver braking intervals, to reduce moisture on the brake surfaces in wet weather.
Jan 6, 2005 11:12:28 PM
- Holminator
- Veteran
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- Loc: USA , United States
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- Reply to: jboyko
Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.
Quote:
jboyko said:
No one wants to look foolish spending $10k on brakes, but in the rain, the brakes don't work unless they are hot. Wicked scarry, and an accident waiting to happen.
jb
jb, I no longer believe you have a 997. Some of your previous post gave me a clue, but now I'm certain.
Dude, quit it and get a hobby. You disappoint me.
Jan 6, 2005 11:21:19 PM
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Ron (Houston)
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- Reply to: jboyko
Jan 7, 2005 9:16:09 AM
- sergini
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- Loc: Italy -Bologna , Italy
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Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.
Quote:
jboyko said:
This car is really cool, but the problems with this car, and with PCNA are not.
I have no hidden agenda. So, the next time you're clipping down the Pike at 75 in the rain, see how your spongy brakes react when you are comming up on the back of a tractor trailer. I'll pray for you.
jb
Learn to drive mate.
Re: PCCB is dangerous in the rain
I have the PCCB on my 997 Carrera S and your claim is absolutely untrue, on the contrary.
No problems with rain, snow or heat. I didn't test the brake in the desert (sand) but regarding rain, there is definetely no problem.
The only "issue" I encountered with the PCCB regarding wetness would be after washing the car and of course the rims with a direct jet of water from a pressure "stick" device (sorry, don't know the right english name for it). It needs a couple of forceful brake actions to free the brake from excessive water. Otherwise, no problems during rain.
Would you please elaborate what problem you have precisely? I just don't understand your claim.
No problems with rain, snow or heat. I didn't test the brake in the desert (sand) but regarding rain, there is definetely no problem.
The only "issue" I encountered with the PCCB regarding wetness would be after washing the car and of course the rims with a direct jet of water from a pressure "stick" device (sorry, don't know the right english name for it). It needs a couple of forceful brake actions to free the brake from excessive water. Otherwise, no problems during rain.
Would you please elaborate what problem you have precisely? I just don't understand your claim.
Jan 9, 2005 10:18:38 AM
- 03-turbo911
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- Loc: Bahrain
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Reply to:
RC
Re: PCCB is dangerous in the rain
Quote:
RC said:
I have the PCCB on my 997 Carrera S and your claim is absolutely untrue, on the contrary.
No problems with rain, snow or heat. no problem.
That's exactely my opinion. I dont have any problems with the new generation of PCCB on my 997S. And believe, we have a lot of rain here in Germany.
There is even no noise while braking (.
Re: PCCB is dangerous in the rain
If anything, my experience with the first generation PCCB is the opposite. I found them always very good in the rain.
The only exception was after washing the car and I think that had more to do with soapy water still being on the rotors.
And this is coming from someone who is no friend of PCCB's or the way Porsche has handled them.
Stephen
The only exception was after washing the car and I think that had more to do with soapy water still being on the rotors.
And this is coming from someone who is no friend of PCCB's or the way Porsche has handled them.
Stephen
PCCB IS "A- OK" IN THE RAIN.
RC, I see that you've edited another one of my fictitious posts, so I'll make it easier on all of you Porsche employees. First, I do not even own a Porsche. I really own a used Police car that still has the 911 decal still on the back. Second, if I had PCCB on my 997 Carrera S, my claim would be absolutely untrue, and on the contrary, I would have no problems with rain, snow, heat or sand (for those Saudi's that are thinking of buying a 997). Third, if I did have an issue with the Porsche that I do not have, I would believe that washing with a stick device would cause the brakes to operate poorly, until I gave them a couple of forceful brake actions. This would free the brakes from all of the excessive water.
RC, where is all of this excessive water hiding when you wash the car (I think of Skip everytime I wash the car), that does not build up, as when driving through the rain. Could the carbon fiber polymer matrix in the discs or the brake pad compound be pourous, allowing them to become saturated with water. Then, after the brakes warm (from a couple of forceful brake actions), they evaporate the water, giving them normal stopping power.
What more can I add to this topic, except that Yargk is partially correct that "jcnesq" is also really me. But Yargk, there also is no "us", they are "ALL ME" (RC, Ando, Trundle996, W8MM, booger, Ron (Houston), PF, sergini, Carlos from Spain, ect..., all me).
jb
RC, where is all of this excessive water hiding when you wash the car (I think of Skip everytime I wash the car), that does not build up, as when driving through the rain. Could the carbon fiber polymer matrix in the discs or the brake pad compound be pourous, allowing them to become saturated with water. Then, after the brakes warm (from a couple of forceful brake actions), they evaporate the water, giving them normal stopping power.
What more can I add to this topic, except that Yargk is partially correct that "jcnesq" is also really me. But Yargk, there also is no "us", they are "ALL ME" (RC, Ando, Trundle996, W8MM, booger, Ron (Houston), PF, sergini, Carlos from Spain, ect..., all me).
jb
Jan 10, 2005 9:54:53 PM
- Holminator
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- Loc: USA , United States
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- Registered on: Sep 28, 2004
- Reply to: jboyko
Re: PCCB IS "A- OK" IN THE RAIN.
Yeah, good point jb. Besides, I love sarcasm. Maybe I should be a little more open minded, although I cannot speak for everyone. Thanks for being patient, man.
The manual says that it takes a bit of time to break in the brakes before max efficiency is achieved. Do you think that is also in play in your situation or is it something more?
The manual says that it takes a bit of time to break in the brakes before max efficiency is achieved. Do you think that is also in play in your situation or is it something more?
Re: PCCB IS "A- OK" IN THE RAIN.
Quote:
jboyko said:
RC, I see that you've edited another one of my fictitious posts, so I'll make it easier on all of you Porsche employees. First, I do not even own a Porsche. I really own a used Police car that still has the 911 decal still on the back. Second, if I had PCCB on my 997 Carrera S, my claim would be absolutely untrue, and on the contrary, I would have no problems with rain, snow, heat or sand (for those Saudi's that are thinking of buying a 997). Third, if I did have an issue with the Porsche that I do not have, I would believe that washing with a stick device would cause the brakes to operate poorly, until I gave them a couple of forceful brake actions. This would free the brakes from all of the excessive water.
RC, where is all of this excessive water hiding when you wash the car (I think of Skip everytime I wash the car), that does not build up, as when driving through the rain. Could the carbon fiber polymer matrix in the discs or the brake pad compound be pourous, allowing them to become saturated with water. Then, after the brakes warm (from a couple of forceful brake actions), they evaporate the water, giving them normal stopping power.
What more can I add to this topic, except that Yargk is partially correct that "jcnesq" is also really me. But Yargk, there also is no "us", they are "ALL ME" (RC, Ando, Trundle996, W8MM, booger, Ron (Houston), PF, sergini, Carlos from Spain, ect..., all me).
jb
jb, I'm really not sure what you're up to and why you're so upset without actually telling us details or showing us some pictures of your PCCB discs. Maybe YOUR PCCB is defective in some way? Have you talked to the dealer?
Your accusations are dead wrong, my friend. I'm not working for Porsche and my official relationship to them is the relationship of a customer-vendor, maybe a little bit more due to our journalistic approach but that's it. I have a private business which is NOT related to cars and this is how I make my money. The same applies to ALL other editors and moderators of Rennteam.com, we have real life jobs and we're not working for Porsche.
And yes, I edited your first post: I changed the headline of the thread from capital letters (considered to be shouting on the internet!) to standard letters. I didn't change one single word or even letter in your posts. So please...instead of making accusations, give us more food for thought: details, pictures, dealer comment, etc.
I drove my 997 Carrera S through heavy rain and never had ANY problem with brake performance. Yesterday it was raining the whole day in Bavaria and I was driving for more than two hours. No problems, no matter if the brake was cold or warm. At outside temperatures of around 5-8*C, the brake was even pretty cold at the beginning.
And no, I also washed my car several times, including high pressure washing and no water inside the car, under the carpet or whereever. My car has almost 8000 km on the speedo now and no such problems. The clutch has been exchanged because of a strange noise when starting off slowly from a stop light but nothing else, NADA.
Jan 11, 2005 12:18:26 AM
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Carlos from Spain
- Rennteam Moderator
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Re: PCCB IS "A- OK" IN THE RAIN.
jboyko,
I have a problem with this, you post in capital letters "PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN" and call them "Wicked scarry, and an accident waiting to happen." yet you haven't bothered to talk to the dealer or find a solution?
And even after you have been informed by the other PCCB owners here that this is not normal with PCCBs and you are the only one with this problem, you still haven't talked to the dealer???
I have a problem with this, you post in capital letters "PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN" and call them "Wicked scarry, and an accident waiting to happen." yet you haven't bothered to talk to the dealer or find a solution?
And even after you have been informed by the other PCCB owners here that this is not normal with PCCBs and you are the only one with this problem, you still haven't talked to the dealer???
Jan 11, 2005 12:50:00 AM
- Holminator
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Jan 11, 2005 4:02:18 AM
- ADias
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Looks like OE...
jboyko says it all, when he says that "...the brakes feel weak until after a first use..." Clearly some people do not know how brakes work (PCCBs or any other). Perhaps this is why MB is now offering an automatic break drying mode by automatically nudging the pads against the disks on wet... some people need that
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