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    Re: Tesla

    As long as there are people who want exclusive stuff and money is no object companies like Porsche will do very well. But perhaps this is not the best business strategy for a new company trying to gain market share.  To each his own. Porsche has never worried about needing to match price or performance.  In this case they have a bit of division playing into their hands as well.  


    Re: Tesla

    Tesla (and their customers) will be delighted to read this NHTSA Standard General Order...  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    “NHTSA Orders Crash Reporting for Vehicles Equipped with Advanced Driver Assistance Systems and Automated Driving Systems”

    Agency uses authority to gather additional information necessary to increase transparency and improve safety of new and emerging in-vehicle technologies

    (29 June 2021)

    NHTSA Media

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) today exercised its authority by issuing a Standing General Order requiring manufacturers and operators of vehicles equipped with SAE Level 2 advanced driver assistance systems (ADAS) or SAE Levels 3-5 automated driving systems (ADS) to report crashes. This action will enable NHTSA to collect information necessary for the agency to play its role in keeping Americans safe on the roadways, even as the technology deployed on the nation’s roads continues to evolve. 

    “NHTSA’s core mission is safety. By mandating crash reporting, the agency will have access to critical data that will help quickly identify safety issues that could emerge in these automated systems,” said Dr. Steven Cliff, NHTSA’s Acting Administrator. “In fact, gathering data will help instill public confidence that the federal government is closely overseeing the safety of automated vehicles.” 

    NHTSA’s order requires covered entities to report crashes that occur on public roads in the United States based on the following:

    • Within one day of learning of a crash, companies must report crashes involving a Level 2 ADAS or Levels 3-5 ADS-equipped vehicle that also involve a hospital-treated injury, a fatality, a vehicle tow-away, an air bag deployment, or a vulnerable road user such as a pedestrian or bicyclist. An updated report is due 10 days after learning of the crash. 
    • Every month, companies must report all other crashes involving an ADS-equipped vehicle that involve an injury or property damage.
    • Reports must be updated monthly with new or additional information.
    • Reports must be submitted for any reportable crash, about which a company receives notice, beginning 10 days after the company is served with the order.
    • Reports must be submitted to NHTSA electronically using a form that requires important information regarding the crash. NHTSA will use this information to identify crashes for follow-up.

    The order requires vehicle and equipment (including software) manufacturers of Level 2 ADAS or Levels 3-5 ADS systems and vehicles and operators of ADS-equipped vehicles to report crashes where the Level 2 ADAS or Level 3-5 ADS system was engaged during or immediately before the crash. 

    These data will help the agency identify potential safety issues and impacts resulting from the operation of advanced technologies on public roads and increase transparency. Access to ADS data may show whether there are common patterns in driverless vehicle crashes or systematic problems in operation.

    Level 2 ADAS is an increasingly common feature on many new vehicles and provides driver assist functions that combine technologies, like lane centering assistance and adaptive cruise control, where the vehicle is able to control certain aspects of steering and speed. Drivers, though, must remain engaged and alert at all times when using these systems, as they are not designed and not able to perform critical operating components of the driving task. ADS-equipped vehicles, which are able to perform the complete driving task in limited circumstances, are not currently sold to consumers but are in limited use on public roads around the country for testing, ride sharing, and goods delivery.

    NHTSA’s oversight is not limited to the specified crashes discussed in the order or the information submitted under its reporting obligations. NHTSA’s review and analysis will include all information and incidents relevant to any potential safety defects. Additionally, NHTSA may take further actions on any individual crash, including sending a Special Crash Investigations team and requiring the company to provide additional information. NHTSA may also open defect investigations, as warranted.

    NHTSA urges the public to contact us if they think their vehicle may have a safety defect that is not part of a current recall. They can contact NHTSA online or by calling the agency’s Vehicle Safety Hotline at 888-327-4236, Monday through Friday, 8am to 8pm ET.

    Information regarding the order is available on NHTSA’s website.

    Link: https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-orders-crash-reporting-vehicles-equipped-advanced-driver-assistance-systems

    ...which followed this NHTSA press release...  BF822CAF-50E5-4C47-9B23-F36F9B8F5A9C.gif

    “NHTSA Enhances Transparency of Whistleblower Program”

    New webpage will assist whistleblowers in providing information about safety concerns

    (14 June 2021)

    NHTSA Media

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration today posted a new website to make it easier for any employee or contractor of a motor vehicle manufacturer, part supplier, or dealership to provide whistleblower information to the agency. The new information page will assist whistleblowers in determining what information they should provide and how they should go about doing so. NHTSA is taking this action to make this program easier to access in recognition of the important role whistleblowers can play in enhancing the safety of the nation’s roadways. 

    “Safety is the top priority for NHTSA and the entire U.S. Department of Transportation,” said Dr. Steven Cliff, NHTSA’s Acting Administrator. “Whistleblowers play a critical role in safeguarding our nation’s roadways, and we will do everything in our power to protect them.”

    The agency is currently working on a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking to formalize its whistleblower program. However, potential whistleblowers need not wait for the NPRM and can already provide information to the agency. Whistleblowers have legal protection from retaliation and may receive a monetary award without the rule being finalized. 

    NHTSA welcomes information from whistleblowers on a wide variety of topics, including potential vehicle safety defects, noncompliance with the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, and violations of the Vehicle Safety Act. That information can lead to formal actions including investigations, recalls, or a civil penalty enforcement action. 

    NHTSA may pay a monetary award to a whistleblower who provides original information that leads to the successful resolution of an enforcement action for violations of law. The amount of that award to a whistleblower is between 10% and 30% of collected monetary sanctions over $1 million.

    Information on NHTSA’s prior enforcement actions is available on our website. 

    NHTSA’s whistleblower information is available on the website.   

    Link: https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/whistleblower-program

    ...sounds like good news for customers! Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    totally agree. If tech is doing the driving we need to know about problems. Like any safety issue. Especially as automakers with little or not self driving tech attempt various solutions. 
    As far as Tesla is concerned I’m certain they not only welcome this but also have all the data ready as they have in the past. 
    Find me a safer car. If my insurance premium for it is any indication I would say there is not a safer car. 


    Re: Tesla

    https://youtu.be/fIA1h_5Wb1I
    +22 mph and -1 sec in the 1/4.  Both on a prepped drag strip but not side by side. Brooks should have more data in a week or so. 
    🤔 


    Re: Tesla

    https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36877043/tesla-ev-superchargers-norway-sweden/

    Perhaps this would be the first step for which Tesla is going to ditch it's proprietary connector and use the industry standard one. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36877043/tesla-ev-superchargers-norway-sweden/

    Perhaps this would be the first step for which Tesla is going to ditch it's proprietary connector and use the industry standard one. 

     

    I believe in Europe they do use the standard connection. 
    Doubt this will happen everywhere because even if Tesla makes more money owners will not be happy if waiting for some other brand to charge. 


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a36847087/2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-vs-2020-tesla-model-y-compared/

    And the Ford came up on top of the Model Y.

    They really needed to contort themselves to make that pick. As an FYI car magazines hate Tesla almost as much as you do.  They are non union and they also don’t pay them to advertise. How much has Ford paid them to advertise?  They won’t even provide a car to test. I could have guessed they disliked the single screen (like so many others they think everything is run by the screen which is not even close to true.) and they hope they find a panel gap.  They skip over the fact that the performance model with its bigger wheel loses a bunch of range as a result.  Of course they skip over tech. 
    Anyway good for Mustang. Ford is doing well - much better than VW.  
    It will be fun to see what they don’t like about the ModelS as it kills to competition with each spec. 
    Sales numbers and resale value are going to be fun to watch.  


    Re: Tesla

    Tesla Model S Plaid proven as the hottest car in the neighborhood:  https://insideevs.com/news/517524/tesla-model-s-plaid-fire/ 

    There's only a handful of possible scenarios: 1) arson, 2) manufacturing defect, or 3) the one most likely accepted by the Tesla fan base, attack by aliens.   


    Re: Tesla

    What would Thursday be without another sleeping Tesla driver:  https://insideevs.com/news/517321/tesla-owner-sleeping-on-autopilot/  

    The article is very misleading and indicative of the reporter not watching the embedded video in its entirety.  The Tesla was impounded because this was the third sleeping offense for the driver in the past year.  


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    What would Thursday be without another sleeping Tesla driver:  https://insideevs.com/news/517321/tesla-owner-sleeping-on-autopilot/  

    The article is very misleading and indicative of the reporter not watching the embedded video in its entirety.  The Tesla was impounded because this was the third sleeping offense for the driver in the past year.  

    Any other car he would have been dead three naps ago. Not certain we are doing him favors. 


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Tesla Model S Plaid proven as the hottest car in the neighborhood:  https://insideevs.com/news/517524/tesla-model-s-plaid-fire/ 

    There's only a handful of possible scenarios: 1) arson, 2) manufacturing defect, or 3) the one most likely accepted by the Tesla fan base, attack by aliens.   

    We finally get to see that they are using the old batteries. Disappointing.  
    My guess is a VW board member with a feuerzeug nearby knows something. Lol 

    what are the odds this would be reported on …  people are on the edge of their seats wishing for this.  Smiley  Enjoy


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    CGX car nut:

    What would Thursday be without another sleeping Tesla driver:  https://insideevs.com/news/517321/tesla-owner-sleeping-on-autopilot/  

    The article is very misleading and indicative of the reporter not watching the embedded video in its entirety.  The Tesla was impounded because this was the third sleeping offense for the driver in the past year.  

    Any other car he would have been dead three naps ago. Not certain we are doing him favors. 

    Any other car and he wouldn't be napping in the first place, notice all these people napping in Teslas have autopilot engaged? that is what allows these idiots them to take naps, that and Tesla not implementing the necessary mechanisms so that they can't do it.

    Sure people fall asleep at the wheel in other car unvoluntarily, but then that is not anymore dangerous than those that do it on a Tesla without AP engaged.


    Re: Tesla

    There are critical times when AP requires you to take control and if you can’t you may die. I have used the system frequently enough to know it is a really bad idea to nap. That said, when in use AP results in you being less tired and hence more attentive for long drives.  It is much less work to be paying attention on standby than to keep a car in a lane of traffic for hours.  Like any tool you have know how to use it.  I would not want to lose that tool - AP - because some people don’t know how to use it. 
    Rarely does reality reward foolish behavior. 


    Re: Tesla

    Ok, so turning to the Taycan, i think there is a potential issue. When i drive my GT4 or even the Cayenne turbo, in London, people that know cars give me a wave. Pre-992 drivers of 911s, all cayman / boxster types, and a lot of Audi RS owners. The Taycan drivers don’t even acknowledge the existence of a nice Porsche. Is this an issue?


    Re: Tesla

    And btw in Kensington and Chelsea, there are a lot of Taycans, incredible how many they are selling


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    There are critical times when AP requires you to take control and if you can’t you may die. I have used the system frequently enough to know it is a really bad idea to nap. That said, when in use AP results in you being less tired and hence more attentive for long drives.  It is much less work to be paying attention on standby than to keep a car in a lane of traffic for hours.  Like any tool you have know how to use it.  I would not want to lose that tool - AP - because some people don’t know how to use it. 
    Rarely does reality reward foolish behavior. 

    Err, that's completely opposite to the real world.

    More people sleeping bending the wheel on autopilot than those that's aren't using autopilot Smiley

    When a car is more engaging, perhaps people gets tired more easily, so they know to stop and rest. That's safer than systems that gives people a false sense of security and falls asleep while driving, which is much more dangerous.

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

    And when will a Tesla race car sounds this good


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:

    There are critical times when AP requires you to take control and if you can’t you may die. I have used the system frequently enough to know it is a really bad idea to nap. That said, when in use AP results in you being less tired and hence more attentive for long drives.  It is much less work to be paying attention on standby than to keep a car in a lane of traffic for hours.  Like any tool you have know how to use it.  I would not want to lose that tool - AP - because some people don’t know how to use it. 
    Rarely does reality reward foolish behavior. 

    Err, that's completely opposite to the real world.

    More people sleeping bending the wheel on autopilot than those that's aren't using autopilot Smiley

    When a car is more engaging, perhaps people gets tired more easily, so they know to stop and rest. That's safer than systems that gives people a false sense of security and falls asleep while driving, which is much more dangerous.

     

     

    Take it from an old man who routinely driver 20 hr stretches. I know you love your narrative and all but AP keep you from getting drowsy. It is less work to pay attention than to drive.  Period.  It has nothing to do with some anecdotal story about a Tesla driver napping.   But by all means let’s start beating yet another dead horse. 


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    And when will a Tesla race car sounds this good

    I owe you a beer!  You know you are my favorite. 
    Reminds me of a horse owner complaining that his car does not have that shitty smell.   Except for a racetrack the noise on the street is just a way to lose my license.  Aside from that - yes you make a very obvious point.  My Tesla can make Ice Cream truck sounds or even gallop like that stinky horse.   You are on pretty thin ice here with all the ice cars blending in stereo soundtracks of exhaust notes already into the cabin.  lol.  Can you name a few. They are your favorites.


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Tesla Model S Plaid proven as the hottest car in the neighborhood:  https://insideevs.com/news/517524/tesla-model-s-plaid-fire/ 

    There's only a handful of possible scenarios: 1) arson, 2) manufacturing defect, or 3) the one most likely accepted by the Tesla fan base, attack by aliens.   

    An article from Reuters...  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    "Tesla top-of-range car caught fire while owner was driving, lawyer says"

    (2 July 2021)

    BERKELEY, California (Reuters) - A Tesla Inc Model S Plaid electric vehicle burst into flames on Tuesday while the owner was driving, just three days after the $129,900, top-of-the-range car was delivered following its June launch, an attorney for the driver told Reuters.

    The driver, identified as an "executive entrepreneur", was initially not able to get out of the car because its electronic door system failed, prompting the driver to "use force to push it open," Mark Geragos, of Geragos & Geragos, said on Friday.

    The car continued to move for about 35 feet to 40 feet (11 to 12 meters) before turning into a "fireball" in a residential area near the owner's Pennsylvania home.

    "It was a harrowing and horrifying experience," Geragos said.

    "This is a brand new model... We are doing an investigation. We are calling for the S Plaid to be grounded, not to be on the road until we get to the bottom of this," he said.

    Tesla did not have an immediate comment when contacted by Reuters.

    Tesla Inc's new Model S Plaid electric car is seen in flames in Pennsylvania, U.S., in this handout photo provided to Reuters on July 2, 2021. Handout via REUTERS

    Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk touted the performance version of its Model S sedan as being "faster than any Porsche, safer than any Volvo" at a launch event at the automaker's factory in Fremont, California, last month.

    Earlier in April, he said the new Model S sedan and Model X sport utility vehicle had a new battery pack.

    "It took quite a bit of development to ensure that the battery of the new S/X is safe," Musk said on a conference call, addressing production delays. "There were more challenges than expected in developing the new version.

    Local fire authorities in a now-deleted Facebook post said "a Tesla was on fire" and that they cooled "the batteries down to ensure complete extinguishment".

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said it is "in touch with relevant agencies and the manufacturer to gather information about the incident".

    "If data or investigations show a defect or an inherent risk to safety exists, NHTSA will take action as appropriate to protect the public," the federal safety agency said.

    Link:  https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-top-of-range-car-caught-fire-while-owner-was-driving-lawyer-says-202...

    ...it sounds like the NHTSA are on the case! Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    There is a non electric door handle if one bothers to learn about a car first.  Personally if I’m in a car with an electric door release I want to know how to get out manually - especially if it can do 150 in 9 seconds. 
     These Tesla stories remind me of all the Trump arrest ‘is immediately going to happen this time’. Next thing you know it is explained and goes away. Someday people will conclude that narratives exist to make people click and to stir shit up.  I am always amuse by those who go play along and amplify the narrative.  Reminds me of the ‘wave’ at the ballpark.  It’s irresistible.  And of course the investigation will take place and lawyer smell money. ‘They are all over it’ 
     

    But back to planet earth. Tesla car fires are 10x less likely than ICE car fires (they do burn 10x as long seemingly). If this was using the new battery cells it might be a bigger story but these are old and known tech with cooling and safety improvements so while statically speaking it seems huge to have one in 250 burn down to dust and rubble - and makes one hell of a click sandwich - I would take the wait and see attitude we have learned to apply to most other topics which are not as exciting.  
    Meanwhile enjoy and happy 🇺🇸 4th of July. 
     

    Btw rumor has it that the owner had an accident driving recklessly which caused the damage and resulted in the fire. This is according to witnesses. It will be interesting to see what Teslas data shows. So far Tesla data in these cases has been excellent and then the story goes away.  As I mentioned there will be people hurting themselves, others and the cars. To assume all of them will take responsibility and not blame Tesla is amusing. Maybe keep that in mind. 


    Re: Tesla

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    CGX car nut:

    Tesla Model S Plaid proven as the hottest car in the neighborhood:  https://insideevs.com/news/517524/tesla-model-s-plaid-fire/ 

    There's only a handful of possible scenarios: 1) arson, 2) manufacturing defect, or 3) the one most likely accepted by the Tesla fan base, attack by aliens.   

    An article from Reuters...  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    "Tesla top-of-range car caught fire while owner was driving, lawyer says"

    (2 July 2021)

    BERKELEY, California (Reuters) - A Tesla Inc Model S Plaid electric vehicle burst into flames on Tuesday while the owner was driving, just three days after the $129,900, top-of-the-range car was delivered following its June launch, an attorney for the driver told Reuters.

    The driver, identified as an "executive entrepreneur", was initially not able to get out of the car because its electronic door system failed, prompting the driver to "use force to push it open," Mark Geragos, of Geragos & Geragos, said on Friday.

    The car continued to move for about 35 feet to 40 feet (11 to 12 meters) before turning into a "fireball" in a residential area near the owner's Pennsylvania home.

    "It was a harrowing and horrifying experience," Geragos said.

    "This is a brand new model... We are doing an investigation. We are calling for the S Plaid to be grounded, not to be on the road until we get to the bottom of this," he said.

    Tesla did not have an immediate comment when contacted by Reuters.

    ...it sounds like the NHTSA are on the case! Smiley

    Tesla is not the only manufacturer that had a brand new model going up in flames. Back then Porsche grounded the 991.1 GT3 and said to replace all engines.

    D164122F-A157-4D37-9A68-869230A7C94C.jpeg


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: Tesla

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    CGX car nut:

    Tesla Model S Plaid proven as the hottest car in the neighborhood:  https://insideevs.com/news/517524/tesla-model-s-plaid-fire/ 

    There's only a handful of possible scenarios: 1) arson, 2) manufacturing defect, or 3) the one most likely accepted by the Tesla fan base, attack by aliens.   

    An article from Reuters...  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    "Tesla top-of-range car caught fire while owner was driving, lawyer says"

    (...)

    (...)

     

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/979895766880841733


    Re: Tesla

    bluelines:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    CGX car nut:

    Tesla Model S Plaid proven as the hottest car in the neighborhood:  https://insideevs.com/news/517524/tesla-model-s-plaid-fire/ 

    There's only a handful of possible scenarios: 1) arson, 2) manufacturing defect, or 3) the one most likely accepted by the Tesla fan base, attack by aliens.   

    An article from Reuters...  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    "Tesla top-of-range car caught fire while owner was driving, lawyer says"

    (2 July 2021)

    BERKELEY, California (Reuters) - A Tesla Inc Model S Plaid electric vehicle burst into flames on Tuesday while the owner was driving, just three days after the $129,900, top-of-the-range car was delivered following its June launch, an attorney for the driver told Reuters.

    The driver, identified as an "executive entrepreneur", was initially not able to get out of the car because its electronic door system failed, prompting the driver to "use force to push it open," Mark Geragos, of Geragos & Geragos, said on Friday.

    The car continued to move for about 35 feet to 40 feet (11 to 12 meters) before turning into a "fireball" in a residential area near the owner's Pennsylvania home.

    "It was a harrowing and horrifying experience," Geragos said.

    "This is a brand new model... We are doing an investigation. We are calling for the S Plaid to be grounded, not to be on the road until we get to the bottom of this," he said.

    Tesla did not have an immediate comment when contacted by Reuters.

    ...it sounds like the NHTSA are on the case! Smiley

    Tesla is not the only manufacturer that had a brand new model going up in flames. Back then Porsche grounded the 991.1 GT3 and said to replace all engines.

    D164122F-A157-4D37-9A68-869230A7C94C.jpeg

    And your point is?  Plus it didn’t negatively impact your decision to get a Porsche nor influence your decision to get a Tesla.  


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    And your point is?  Plus it didn’t negatively impact your decision to get a Porsche nor influence your decision to get a Tesla.  

    You just proved my point wink

    Yes, it did impact my decision. The self-igniting 991.1 GT3 was never of interest. I would however still consider a Tesla, although I think they are falling behind compared to the new EVs from the VW group.


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: Tesla

    Etc.


    Re: Tesla

    bluelines:
    CGX car nut:

    And your point is?  Plus it didn’t negatively impact your decision to get a Porsche nor influence your decision to get a Tesla.  

    You just proved my point wink

    Yes, it did impact my decision. The self-igniting 991.1 GT3 was never of interest. I would however still consider a Tesla, although I think they are falling behind compared to the new EVs from the VW group.

    Fanciful backpedaling on your part since you picked up that GT4 after the 991.1 GT3 engine debacle. Those issues didn’t dissuade you for purchasing a Porsche product.  However, you have yet to acquire a Tesla.  


    Re: Tesla

    Topspeed:

    Etc.

    When you take a brand new GT3 RS out of its wrapper, the paint is far from perfect:

    https://www.thedrive.com/porsche/8347/inspecting-the-paint-of-a-freshly-delivered-porsche-gt3-rs

    Oh no! heartindecision


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Fanciful backpedaling on your part since you picked up that GT4 after the 991.1 GT3 engine debacle. Those issues didn’t dissuade you for purchasing a Porsche product.  However, you have yet to acquire a Tesla.  

    I won’t get a Taycan after this, that is for sure:

    Luxury sports carmaker Porsche AG must recall 43,000 of its electric Taycan cars over faulty software:

    https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/porsche-recalls-flagship-electric-model-taycan-over-software-issue-2021-07-02/

     


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    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


     
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