Crown

Leawood911:

Just drive a model3 performance - just once. What does most of this discussion have to do with the fact it is a friggin fun car to drive. I would say slot car rather than go cart. 

Just did that this weekend for an extended period of time.  The car I drove was a brand new Model 3 Performance in black with black interior.  If this car represents the future, I want nothing to do with the future and will stay with an older automobile. 

While fit-and-finish have improved greatly since the last time I drove a Model 3 not long after the car went on sale, it reminds me of a General Motors product that lacks that final 5% to 10% of development effort.  It had the potential to be a great automobile but it does not excel in its apparent class beyond acceleration.  If Tesla benchmarked the Model 3's interior, it was against a Nissan Versa and Toyota Yaris, not against cars in its price range.  The Germans, Japanese, South Koreans, and even General Motors does it better.  

The car is best described as anodyne, lacking a sense of occasion and presence.  Just compare an Audi S4 (or S5 Sportsback) against it and it becomes painfully obvious what I wrote above.  In the real world, the acceleration differences aren't great and I'm not quite sure where the mythical technology gap is for the Tesla.  An S4 delivers with heads up display, auto-dimming outside mirrors in addition to the auto-dimming rearview mirror, and massaging seats, among other features lacking in the Tesla.  No amount of OTA updates will provide that functionality.  

Moving up the class to an Audi A6/7 or S6/7 and the differences become even greater when compared with the Model S.  

Tesla products don't meet its hype and expectations but all that matters is you like your car.   

CGX car nut:

Leawood911:

Just drive a model3 performance - just once. What does most of this discussion have to do with the fact it is a friggin fun car to drive. I would say slot car rather than go cart. 

Just did that this weekend for an extended period of time.  The car I drove was a brand new Model 3 Performance in black with black interior.  If this car represents the future, I want nothing to do with the future and will stay with an older automobile. 

While fit-and-finish have improved greatly since the last time I drove a Model 3 not long after the car went on sale, it reminds me of a General Motors product that lacks that final 5% to 10% of development effort.  It had the potential to be a great automobile but it does not excel in its apparent class beyond acceleration.  If Tesla benchmarked the Model 3's interior, it was against a Nissan Versa and Toyota Yaris, not against cars in its price range.  The Germans, Japanese, South Koreans, and even General Motors does it better.  

The car is best described as anodyne, lacking a sense of occasion and presence.  Just compare an Audi S4 (or S5 Sportsback) against it and it becomes painfully obvious what I wrote above.  In the real world, the acceleration differences aren't great and I'm not quite sure where the mythical technology gap is for the Tesla.  An S4 delivers with heads up display, auto-dimming outside mirrors in addition to the auto-dimming rearview mirror, and massaging seats, among other features lacking in the Tesla.  No amount of OTA updates will provide that functionality.  

Moving up the class to an Audi A6/7 or S6/7 and the differences become even greater when compared with the Model S.  

Tesla products don't meet its hype and expectations but all that matters is you like your car.   

I'm sorry but what you wrote is not possible, you have to love it and become enlightened to a new reality once you have tried it... no other scenario is possible.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

CGX car nut:

Leawood911:

Just drive a model3 performance - just once. What does most of this discussion have to do with the fact it is a friggin fun car to drive. I would say slot car rather than go cart. 

Just did that this weekend for an extended period of time.  The car I drove was a brand new Model 3 Performance in black with black interior.  If this car represents the future, I want nothing to do with the future and will stay with an older automobile. 

While fit-and-finish have improved greatly since the last time I drove a Model 3 not long after the car went on sale, it reminds me of a General Motors product that lacks that final 5% to 10% of development effort.  It had the potential to be a great automobile but it does not excel in its apparent class beyond acceleration.  If Tesla benchmarked the Model 3's interior, it was against a Nissan Versa and Toyota Yaris, not against cars in its price range.  The Germans, Japanese, South Koreans, and even General Motors does it better.  

The car is best described as anodyne, lacking a sense of occasion and presence.  Just compare an Audi S4 (or S5 Sportsback) against it and it becomes painfully obvious what I wrote above.  In the real world, the acceleration differences aren't great and I'm not quite sure where the mythical technology gap is for the Tesla.  An S4 delivers with heads up display, auto-dimming outside mirrors in addition to the auto-dimming rearview mirror, and massaging seats, among other features lacking in the Tesla.  No amount of OTA updates will provide that functionality.  

Moving up the class to an Audi A6/7 or S6/7 and the differences become even greater when compared with the Model S.  

Tesla products don't meet its hype and expectations but all that matters is you like your car.   

I'm sorry but what you wrote is not possible, you have to love it and become enlightened to a new reality once you have tried it... no other scenario is possible.

2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White

Leawood911:

Just drive a model3 performance - just once. What does most of this discussion have to do with the fact it is a friggin fun car to drive. I would say slot car rather than go cart. 

My experience indeed reminded me of driving electric go-karts when they were first introduced... while the electric drive provides immediate torque, the lack of an internal combustion engine means it has no soul, no sound, no excitement. It feels like driving a fast milk float. The interior is also about as luxurious as a milk float...

It’s really funny when Tesla drivers want to show how fast they are at the lights... 

From a European perspective, the most popular role for the Tesla Model 3 will be as a taxi — and they are not driven fast... 

Their battery technology is not proprietary. Their software is not unique. FSD technology is so bad it is literally lethal. Regulatory credits will have dried up by 2021. China factory is encumbered as security for local bank funding and subject to significant covenants that make long-term ownership uncertain. SEC investigation remains a material risk.

How about the quality of management? Erm... https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-226

In the UK, competitors like Audi and VW are going to dominate the market. Tesla will continue to be a niche player.

If you haven’t fully appreciated the impact of regulatory credits being sold at 100% margin, it is worth doing a bit of homework on the subject...   

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-33VrfauPs

Tesla is just another car company, albeit one with dubious product quality, low margins, reduced growth prospects and fraudulent accounting... 

CGX car nut:

Leawood911:

Just drive a model3 performance - just once. What does most of this discussion have to do with the fact it is a friggin fun car to drive. I would say slot car rather than go cart. 

Just did that this weekend for an extended period of time.  The car I drove was a brand new Model 3 Performance in black with black interior.  If this car represents the future, I want nothing to do with the future and will stay with an older automobile. 

While fit-and-finish have improved greatly since the last time I drove a Model 3 not long after the car went on sale, it reminds me of a General Motors product that lacks that final 5% to 10% of development effort.  It had the potential to be a great automobile but it does not excel in its apparent class beyond acceleration.  If Tesla benchmarked the Model 3's interior, it was against a Nissan Versa and Toyota Yaris, not against cars in its price range.  The Germans, Japanese, South Koreans, and even General Motors does it better.  

The car is best described as anodyne, lacking a sense of occasion and presence.  Just compare an Audi S4 (or S5 Sportsback) against it and it becomes painfully obvious what I wrote above.  In the real world, the acceleration differences aren't great and I'm not quite sure where the mythical technology gap is for the Tesla.  An S4 delivers with heads up display, auto-dimming outside mirrors in addition to the auto-dimming rearview mirror, and massaging seats, among other features lacking in the Tesla.  No amount of OTA updates will provide that functionality.  

Moving up the class to an Audi A6/7 or S6/7 and the differences become even greater when compared with the Model S.  

Tesla products don't meet its hype and expectations but all that matters is you like your car.   

I appreciate your review. Maybe I’m getting old   Thanks buddy 

I have to disagree...a little bit.

The Tesla 3 Performance (I am seriously thinking about getting one but probably will end up in a Taycan if Porsche decides to be smart at some point about their lease offers) is real fun to drive(!), it is fun to use the large display and the acceleration/performance is really fantastic for such a car. Thats it. 

The interior is a catastrophe, empty, uninspiring, boring. Simplicity and a clean design are OK but this is just too much (in a negative sense). The exterior is also boring, though probably timeless in a way. Quality is overall bad in my opinion, it reminds me of my first 996 Carrera and not in a good way.

Then however, again...there is the price: 60k EUR for a basically fully optioned Tesla 3 Performance. What do you get in Germany for 60k EUR? An Audi A6 Diesel with a few options? 

So you basically get what you pay for and I think the Tesla 3 Performance is a very good offer.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Topspeed:

Lucid Makes Tesla Eat Dust With Air's Estimated 517-Mile(832Km) EPA Range

That is the impression we get by looking solely at the range numbers, but we will never be sure without knowing the size of the 900V battery pack of the Air. Lucid claims the high voltage and other improvements helped the car be so efficient, but rumor has it its battery pack will be below 130 kWh.

 

Lucid Air EV’s Battery Will Be a Big 113.0 kWh, Topping Tesla’s Best

The vehicle is more efficient than the Model S Long Range Plus, which has a 100.0-kWh capacity and 402 miles of range.

RC:

I have to disagree...a little bit.

The Tesla 3 Performance (I am seriously thinking about getting one but probably will end up in a Taycan if Porsche decides to be smart at some point about their lease offers) is real fun to drive(!), it is fun to use the large display and the acceleration/performance is really fantastic for such a car. Thats it. 

The interior is a catastrophe, empty, uninspiring, boring. Simplicity and a clean design are OK but this is just too much (in a negative sense). The exterior is also boring, though probably timeless in a way. Quality is overall bad in my opinion, it reminds me of my first 996 Carrera and not in a good way.

Then however, again...there is the price: 60k EUR for a basically fully optioned Tesla 3 Performance. What do you get in Germany for 60k EUR? An Audi A6 Diesel with a few options? 

So you basically get what you pay for and I think the Tesla 3 Performance is a very good offer.

You do realize that pricing is different in the States.  An Audi S4 with virtually every available option has a Monroney of $65,000.  Once you factor in invoice pricing, clawback, and manufacture incentives the out-the-door price is about $59-60,000 which puts the pricing for the Audi more favorable than the Tesla Model 3 Performance. However, we can be assured that when YOU acquire a Model 3 Performance it will be the Greatest Car of All Times. 

CGX car nut:

 

You do realize that pricing is different in the States.  An Audi S4 with virtually every available option has a Monroney of $65,000.  Once you factor in invoice pricing, clawback, and manufacture incentives the out-the-door price is about $59-60,000 which puts the pricing for the Audi more favorable than the Tesla Model 3 Performance. However, we can be assured that when YOU acquire a Model 3 Performance it will be the Greatest Car of All Times. 

60k for an S4 I am speechless do not even waste time to look at other cars which are people mover with no taste in that price range

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

CGX car nut:

 

You do realize that pricing is different in the States.  An Audi S4 with virtually every available option has a Monroney of $65,000.  Once you factor in invoice pricing, clawback, and manufacture incentives the out-the-door price is about $59-60,000 which puts the pricing for the Audi more favorable than the Tesla Model 3 Performance. However, we can be assured that when YOU acquire a Model 3 Performance it will be the Greatest Car of All Times. 

60k for an S4 I am speechless do not even waste time to look at other cars which are people mover with no taste in that price range

Taste is a matter of taste. I’m old. My wife is my flash.  Mostly I go for the plastic Walmart bags and then recycle them for other chores. 
Here the model3 perf is $56k. It also saves you gas, forever, and is cheaper to insure. It is arguably safer and for street use in any type of weather it is much quicker. The number of features and tech is not even close. 
Do you care to look at depreciation?  Omg.  What is a three year old S4 worth now vs a same age Model3?
I like the plain interior with just the right amount of manual controls. Note, we don’t question why the iPhone does not have buttons all over the place.  
The Audi was s a good comparison though.  Also using US prices , keep in mind our $.04 per kWh.  European prices for electricity and cars in general changes too much of the equation. We have tons of totally free charging at malls as well as not just free parking but free valet parking, free concerts and ice cream. Welcome to wide open spaces of Leawood

In my opinion I would be paying for extra old fashioned interior, a gas engine with tons of moving parts which need constant maintenance, oil, fuel. You name it. Transmissions, exhaust systems.  Except for tires and brakes every repair bill I have had for the last forty years we’re for parts the Tesla does not have.  Looking around after the purchase I would not feel the interior was worth it for long. I’m the driver looking out, not in.  Don’t care how my passenger feel about it, my job is to keep them safe. 
The list of tech features I would give up in the Audi is too long to list. Take for example sentry mode, five dash cams anytime, Dog mode, camping mode, silent slot car speed.  You really can’t compare them.  Some people will never like electric cars and I totally appreciate that.  I was out driving my turbo just for grins this morning.  Three cops followed me   , does not happen in the model3 .

Im looking forward to all the new electric cars to come along.  We will see a great deal of innovation in a very short time, which may be another reason to lease ICE cars for now. 

A nicely config S4 here in Canada cost around $65,000CAD, that translate to just under $50,000US. 

Leawood911:

the-missile:

CGX car nut:

 

You do realize that pricing is different in the States.  An Audi S4 with virtually every available option has a Monroney of $65,000.  Once you factor in invoice pricing, clawback, and manufacture incentives the out-the-door price is about $59-60,000 which puts the pricing for the Audi more favorable than the Tesla Model 3 Performance. However, we can be assured that when YOU acquire a Model 3 Performance it will be the Greatest Car of All Times. 

60k for an S4 I am speechless do not even waste time to look at other cars which are people mover with no taste in that price range

Taste is a matter of taste. I’m old. My wife is my flash.  Mostly I go for the plastic Walmart bags and then recycle them for other chores. 
Here the model3 perf is $56k. It also saves you gas, forever, and is cheaper to insure. It is arguably safer and for street use in any type of weather it is much quicker. The number of features and tech is not even close. 
Do you care to look at depreciation?  Omg.  What is a three year old S4 worth now vs a same age Model3?
I like the plain interior with just the right amount of manual controls. Note, we don’t question why the iPhone does not have buttons all over the place.  
The Audi was s a good comparison though.  Also using US prices , keep in mind our $.04 per kWh.  European prices for electricity and cars in general changes too much of the equation. We have tons of totally free charging at malls as well as not just free parking but free valet parking, free concerts and ice cream. Welcome to wide open spaces of Leawood

In my opinion I would be paying for extra old fashioned interior, a gas engine with tons of moving parts which need constant maintenance, oil, fuel. You name it. Transmissions, exhaust systems.  Except for tires and brakes every repair bill I have had for the last forty years we’re for parts the Tesla does not have.  Looking around after the purchase I would not feel the interior was worth it for long. I’m the driver looking out, not in.  Don’t care how my passenger feel about it, my job is to keep them safe. 
The list of tech features I would give up in the Audi is too long to list. Take for example sentry mode, five dash cams anytime, Dog mode, camping mode, silent slot car speed.  You really can’t compare them.  Some people will never like electric cars and I totally appreciate that.  I was out driving my turbo just for grins this morning.  Three cops followed me   , does not happen in the model3 .

Im looking forward to all the new electric cars to come along.  We will see a great deal of innovation in a very short time, which may be another reason to lease ICE cars for now. 

 

The Model 3 Performance I drove was $65,000.  The pricing cited for the S4 was the Prestige model with black optics package and the sports package which includes a torque vectoring rear differential.  My S6 has that plus four wheel steering and night vision. Maintenance is basically covered for the first three years.  The package is $995 however most dealerships are willing to negotiate on it and give it to the client gratis.  

Sounds like full self driving might have been included in that price. Mine does not include that. The auto steer is just fine for me. 
The two cars are just too different to compare. To me all the ICE cars look like tube TVs vs flat screens.  And will be depreciating (even more) soon.  When we discuss interiors etc it is like comparing the old tube cabinet to the tiny trim around a flat screen. To me the smaller the trim the better. 

Leawood911:

Sounds like full self driving might have been included in that price. Mine does not include that. The auto steer is just fine for me. 
The two cars are just too different to compare. To me all the ICE cars look like tube TVs vs flat screens.  And will be depreciating (even more) soon.  When we discuss interiors etc it is like comparing the old tube cabinet to the tiny trim around a flat screen. To me the smaller the trim the better. 

Whatever you like, you like.  I will stay in the past. 

CGX car nut:

Leawood911:

Sounds like full self driving might have been included in that price. Mine does not include that. The auto steer is just fine for me. 
The two cars are just too different to compare. To me all the ICE cars look like tube TVs vs flat screens.  And will be depreciating (even more) soon.  When we discuss interiors etc it is like comparing the old tube cabinet to the tiny trim around a flat screen. To me the smaller the trim the better. 

Whatever you like, you like.  I will stay in the past. 

Just curious why you compare the model3 performance to the S4. The dual motor 3 for $10k less is still quicker to 60 than the S4. 
I’m not saying ICE cars are old or bad. There is just no good way to compare the two. The cost of electricity around the world alone is all it takes. Not to mention individual tastes.  I deal with people not understanding my 911 fetish so I gave up pleasing anyone but myself long ago. Other than that I do enjoy discussing all type of cars. It’s what I did here for the last 10+ years. 
cheers

The thing is, cats are not transportation appliances to car guys, it's about the driving experience and everything that affects that experience it brings them, and in this regard to most of them,  EV's just can't match ICE cars, the cost of electricity or the gadgetry doesn't matter. That said, that's not everybody,  some car guys prefer the EV, too each his own. I can see both sides.

I use a smartwatch for example, it is so useful and superior in every way to my automatic watches, that I rarely use them, it's like going back to the stone age, but I'm very attached to some like my SS Daytona my wife got me, and I can see why others think smartwatches are not as special,  pretty or interesting and prefer using their automatics that just tells time. To each his own. 

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Leawood911:

CGX car nut:

Leawood911:

Sounds like full self driving might have been included in that price. Mine does not include that. The auto steer is just fine for me. 
The two cars are just too different to compare. To me all the ICE cars look like tube TVs vs flat screens.  And will be depreciating (even more) soon.  When we discuss interiors etc it is like comparing the old tube cabinet to the tiny trim around a flat screen. To me the smaller the trim the better. 

Whatever you like, you like.  I will stay in the past. 

Just curious why you compare the model3 performance to the S4. The dual motor 3 for $10k less is still quicker to 60 than the S4. 
I’m not saying ICE cars are old or bad. There is just no good way to compare the two. The cost of electricity around the world alone is all it takes. Not to mention individual tastes.  I deal with people not understanding my 911 fetish so I gave up pleasing anyone but myself long ago. Other than that I do enjoy discussing all type of cars. It’s what I did here for the last 10+ years. 
cheers

I am with CGX car nut on this one: the Audi S4 is plenty fast enough for a family car, sounds great, lovely interior and is a great car to drive! 

As an aside, Audi delivered 1,845,550 cars worldwide in 2019 and this year they are selling more EVs in Europe than Tesla... 

...would you consider test-driving the Audi e-tron GT when that launches? 

I might want that Audi more than a Taycan.

All depends on how much Audi wanted to charge for one. If they ask too much, close toe a Taycan 4S, there is no point, might as well get a proper Porsche instead. 

I would love to upgrade to a better EV. For sure. 
Regarding driving fun - I absolutely love the way that little EV drives. It corners like crazy and the point and shoot ability is unmatched. You know my other car and history of 911s. I knows fun driving and how to go fast. The Model3 is a whole new learning curve. Scary as hell when trying to use all the power and also fun to just one pedal drive. I don’t give a hoot about cost or green planet. For me it is useable, nuts fun. There is a reason Koenigsegg says it’s the best daily driver.  You know I love that old five speed mezger turbo BUT to say Model3 is not as much fun to drive as a front heavy Audi is not my impression.  If want to go slow I drive the Turbo. Lol. 
 

I got a Panamera Sport Turismo 4S E-Hybrid, or whatever the full name is, today.

It is the first time I drive a hybrid and from the engineering point-of-view most fascinating how integrated and smooth it drives. Almost spooky to silently float around in full electro mode.

However, the steering feel is terrible and the response laggy. Even in the Sport modes the PDK seem to hesitate on downshifts. Not replacing the Audi with this one.

2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White

CGX car nut:

You do realize that pricing is different in the States.  An Audi S4 with virtually every available option has a Monroney of $65,000.  Once you factor in invoice pricing, clawback, and manufacture incentives the out-the-door price is about $59-60,000 which puts the pricing for the Audi more favorable than the Tesla Model 3 Performance. However, we can be assured that when YOU acquire a Model 3 Performance it will be the Greatest Car of All Times. 

 I have always criticized many things on all the cars I owned but I also choose them wisely, exactly for my needs. So yes, in a way, for me, they are the greatest cars at that time.

Just as a reminder for myself (I guess I didn't pay attention too much): What car(s) are you driving again?

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

bluelines:

I got a Panamera Sport Turismo 4S E-Hybrid, or whatever the full name is, today.

It is the first time I drive a hybrid and from the engineering point-of-view most fascinating how integrated and smooth it drives. Almost spooky to silently float around in full electro mode.

However, the steering feel is terrible and the response laggy. Even in the Sport modes the PDK seem to hesitate on downshifts. Not replacing the Audi with this one.

Have you tried the Taycan Turbo or Turbo S? Do it, you'll like it. 

The Panamera isn't really my thing, only maybe the Turbo S. The facelifted Turbo may also be better than before but it still doesn't really have any benefit over the E63 S or M5.

Right now, if I had to choose the best value/performance sedan, I would probably go for the latest M5 Performance.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

What isn’t mentioned about EV is the missed gas tax that’s used by every State to build and repair roads. The more EV’s the less in revenue for road repairs. The only solution is to tax EV’s for their road use. When that happens, the cost benefit of EV’s is less compelling.

Mike, your accustomed to driving your old turbo. Have driven a modern sport car? It may change your mind about the handling ability of the Tesla 3. 

When you're going through hell.....keep going.

nberry:

What isn’t mentioned about EV is the missed gas tax that’s used by every State to build and repair roads. The more EV’s the less in revenue for road repairs. The only solution is to tax EV’s for their road use. When that happens, the cost benefit of EV’s is less compelling.

Mike, your accustomed to driving your old turbo. Have driven a modern sport car? It may change your mind about the handling ability of the Tesla 3. 

Excellent point. The fact that it is a 13 year old car with 114k miles now is certainly a factor.  Some cool dude in CA gave me a ride in his red GT3!  By far the best new car I have ridden in.  
The model3 is still fun though. 

nberry:

What isn’t mentioned about EV is the missed gas tax that’s used by every State to build and repair roads. The more EV’s the less in revenue for road repairs. The only solution is to tax EV’s for their road use. When that happens, the cost benefit of EV’s is less compelling.

Mike, your accustomed to driving your old turbo. Have driven a modern sport car? It may change your mind about the handling ability of the Tesla 3. 

We currently have some interesting incentives to get an EV, not really great but... Still, people don't want them (yet). 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

nberry:

What isn’t mentioned about EV is the missed gas tax that’s used by every State to build and repair roads. The more EV’s the less in revenue for road repairs. The only solution is to tax EV’s for their road use. When that happens, the cost benefit of EV’s is less compelling.

Mike, your accustomed to driving your old turbo. Have driven a modern sport car? It may change your mind about the handling ability of the Tesla 3. 

We currently have some interesting incentives to get an EV, not really great but... Still, people don't want them (yet). 

That, pretty much sums up the EV segment.

It's only very small subset of people who wants an EV. 

Some will get sway by extra incentives from the governments.

The majority still think they are not good enough, no need for one, or simply just don't like it and no amount of incentive will get them to buy one.

Whoopsy:

That, pretty much sums up the EV segment.

It's only very small subset of people who wants an EV. 

Some will get sway by extra incentives from the governments.

The majority still think they are not good enough, no need for one, or simply just don't like it and no amount of incentive will get them to buy one.

or way too expensive for what is proposed...Zoe for instance? Cost more than upper size car...and batteries are on rent.

Model 3? expensive in Europe and basically more than average cars from its category. Most of the people are not looking for performance against price but size against price. EV is not fit for that. Will never work unless high incentives from government or city restrictions and similar laws.

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

Whoopsy:

RC:

nberry:

What isn’t mentioned about EV is the missed gas tax that’s used by every State to build and repair roads. The more EV’s the less in revenue for road repairs. The only solution is to tax EV’s for their road use. When that happens, the cost benefit of EV’s is less compelling.

Mike, your accustomed to driving your old turbo. Have driven a modern sport car? It may change your mind about the handling ability of the Tesla 3. 

We currently have some interesting incentives to get an EV, not really great but... Still, people don't want them (yet). 

 

That, pretty much sums up the EV segment.

It's only very small subset of people who wants an EV. 

Some will get sway by extra incentives from the governments.

The majority still think they are not good enough, no need for one, or simply just don't like it and no amount of incentive will get them to buy one.

 

It will be interesting to see when EV sales begin to slow as they saturate the ranks of interested consumers.

In the short term, I have watched the local (Kansas City and St. Louis) Tesla stores inventory with great fascination. They can barely keep any new car available for more than a couple of days. Also, the used car inventory commands an as new price or sometimes higher yet they are also gone in well under a weeks time.

Leawood911:

I would love to upgrade to a better EV. For sure. 
Regarding driving fun - I absolutely love the way that little EV drives. It corners like crazy and the point and shoot ability is unmatched. You know my other car and history of 911s. I knows fun driving and how to go fast. The Model3 is a whole new learning curve. Scary as hell when trying to use all the power and also fun to just one pedal drive. I don’t give a hoot about cost or green planet. For me it is useable, nuts fun. There is a reason Koenigsegg says it’s the best daily driver.  You know I love that old five speed mezger turbo BUT to say Model3 is not as much fun to drive as a front heavy Audi is not my impression.  If want to go slow I drive the Turbo. Lol. 
 

Oh Dude !  You drove that old Turbo so hard that the transaxle dropped a gear !  You are hard on cars

Just seeing if anyone is paying attention. But yes, I drive it hard. 
Sometimes I think people are talking about sex dolls rather than EVs. It’s not like gas cars are somehow more human. Lol