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Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)
Wonderbar:Earlier press release video says 80 more hp up to 630. Current Turbo has 550. Also press release video says other suspension mods. Am I wrong?
It's a corporate 4.0L V8 TT. it will just be a Lamborghini Urus usage tune in the simplest terms.
Don't expect miracles on the suspension side either, will be a retuned version of the PASM.
Don't even think they did anything to the PCM either, as it is still the current version.
Gen 1 was already running 275 fronts 315 rears. not sure how much big the chassis can accommodate, not much, if at all.
Biggest gain would have come from changing the currently stickiest stock tire, PZero PZ4 to Cup2s.
The new Cup2s would be a new formula, built on the basis of the 918's Cup2s. That's the version that had to endure heavy cars. N1 and N2 versions are for lighter 911s. Think they might even retain the ECO rating.
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Aug 17, 2020 6:22:48 PM
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the-missile
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Whoopsy
Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)
Whoopsy:Wonderbar:Earlier press release video says 80 more hp up to 630. Current Turbo has 550. Also press release video says other suspension mods. Am I wrong?
It's a corporate 4.0L V8 TT. it will just be a Lamborghini Urus usage tune in the simplest terms.
Don't expect miracles on the suspension side either, will be a retuned version of the PASM.
Don't even think they did anything to the PCM either, as it is still the current version.
Gen 1 was already running 275 fronts 315 rears. not sure how much big the chassis can accommodate, not much, if at all.
Biggest gain would have come from changing the currently stickiest stock tire, PZero PZ4 to Cup2s.
The new Cup2s would be a new formula, built on the basis of the 918's Cup2s. That's the version that had to endure heavy cars. N1 and N2 versions are for lighter 911s. Think they might even retain the ECO rating.
So in short, Corona will even make a PAG facelift even more funny than before 
and a price increase in case you did not see that coming 
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Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)
Wonderbar:An 80hp bump alone is more than any “facelift” I can remember.
Could it be that we slowly reach some kind of limit and that the cars are approaching an optimum technically and in terms of the chassis, so that only a considerable increase in performance together with a little cosmetics here and there should make the step to the facelift palatable? 
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Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)
Wonderbar:Thanks. What does “corporate” mean? And I owned a 2018 TwinTurbo for almost 3 years, I don’t think I ever knew the front and rear tires were different.
The engine is shared by Audi, Porsche, Lamborghini, and Bentley.
Porsche used it first in a 550hp version, Bentley also have the 550hp version.
Audi S8 has a slighter higher tune in all their cars if I remember correctly and Lamborghini used the top tune in the Urus.
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Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)
Whoopsy:Wonderbar:Thanks. What does “corporate” mean? And I owned a 2018 TwinTurbo for almost 3 years, I don’t think I ever knew the front and rear tires were different.
The engine is shared by Audi, Porsche, Lamborghini, and Bentley.
Porsche used it first in a 550hp version, Bentley also have the 550hp version.
Audi S8 has a slighter higher tune in all their cars if I remember correctly and Lamborghini used the top tune in the Urus.
This engine is based on the 5l twin-turbo V10 from the 2008 Audi RS6 and has over the years become the VW Group twin-turbo V8 of choice. It was developed by Audi and adopted by Porsche for the Cayenne and Panamera from model year 2018 and 2017 respectively. The V8 engines used by Porsche before this were their own.
The 4l V8 engine is now used in the S6, RS6, S7, RS7, S8, Continental GT, Flying Spur, Cayenne (from 2018 model), Panamera (from model year 2017), etc. All in different tunes.
Our S6 has got one of the lowest tunes with 450hp and 550Nm.
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Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)
I think that some car companies already put a brake on power upgrades in facelifts, like for example Mercedes but also BMW. Porsche is just playing catching up I guess. 
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)
Aug 18, 2020 10:56:17 AM
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Lord_Driftalot
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Aug 18, 2020 11:36:15 AM
- bluelines
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Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)
Lord_Driftalot:@bluelines
you‘re not totally correct regarding Audi S6, in the latest model C8 despite of US & China it‘s not the V8-petrol biturbo anymore but an V6-turbo mild hybrid (MHEV)! 😉
Yes, but neither the diesel nor the petrol does not count 
The biggest mistake Audi ever done when changing from C7 to C8.
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Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)
New C class AMG models get 4-cyl. and 6-cyl. engines, even the E63 could get a 6-cyl. engine. In my opinion total suicide for AMG, I wouldn't buy these cars and I know a lot of AMG drivers who feel exactly the same.
The AMG GT could be a different story, if the design and sportiness/performance is right but the other ones? RIP. Same goes to the G class, the GLS, the GLC and so on.
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Aug 18, 2020 4:31:18 PM
- CGX car nut
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Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)
RC:New C class AMG models get 4-cyl. and 6-cyl. engines, even the E63 could get a 6-cyl. engine. In my opinion total suicide for AMG, I wouldn't buy these cars and I know a lot of AMG drivers who feel exactly the same.
The AMG GT could be a different story, if the design and sportiness/performance is right but the other ones? RIP. Same goes to the G class, the GLS, the GLC and so on.
Talk to your bureaucrats in Brussels about the draconian carbon regulations. That's why everyone is downsizing engine displacement and making large investments in EVs.
Aug 19, 2020 9:45:06 AM
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RC
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Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)
CGX car nut:RC:New C class AMG models get 4-cyl. and 6-cyl. engines, even the E63 could get a 6-cyl. engine. In my opinion total suicide for AMG, I wouldn't buy these cars and I know a lot of AMG drivers who feel exactly the same.
The AMG GT could be a different story, if the design and sportiness/performance is right but the other ones? RIP. Same goes to the G class, the GLS, the GLC and so on.
Talk to your bureaucrats in Brussels about the draconian carbon regulations. That's why everyone is downsizing engine displacement and making large investments in EVs.
The biggest mistake car manufacturers in Germany make regarding EVs is that they make them look ugly or too futuristic. Instead, they should just use the cars and models they have now and offer a competitive EV version of each. Just my two cents...
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Aug 19, 2020 9:46:30 PM
- Leawood911
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Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)
CGX car nut:Current market for EVs want something different looking from traditional automobiles.
And there are so many engineering differences that it would actually be more expensive to somehow just electrify existing car bodies. Just like you could not just put gas engines into horse carriages. Or putting a flat screen into an old tube TV case.
Aug 19, 2020 11:20:59 PM
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Whoopsy
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Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)
CGX car nut:Current market for EVs want something different looking from traditional automobiles.
I am not sure that's the case. I think the reverse is actually true instead.
Consumers wants a normal looking car that doesn't scream LOOK AT MY EV!!
Outside of Teslas, and now the Taycan, every other EV on the market looks like a normal car. BMW i3 is the prime example of looking like a weird car and they are pretty much a failure on the market.
Whatever that's coming down the pipe from Audi are all normal looking also. That pretty much holds true for all manufacturers' up coming products.
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Aug 20, 2020 6:10:46 AM
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the-missile
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Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)
Whoopsy:
I am not sure that's the case. I think the reverse is actually true instead.
Consumers wants a normal looking car that doesn't scream LOOK AT MY EV!!
It depends, take the example of the gorgeous Prius 
that sold pretty well and has a unique horrible design which was unnecessary.
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Aug 20, 2020 6:59:31 AM
- reginos
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Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)
People who buy electric cars, in their majority view those as appliances, similar to an efficient refrigerator or an eco-friendly washing machine . They don't care about arresting styling and other things a traditional car fan would require. Hence the Toyotas and similar EVs that are popular.
BMW have tried to introduce some style to their electric cars but I don't think those sold very well. For example the supercar styled i8 was very out of character with its 3C engine and the i3 was a nice concept but prohibitively priced with its carbon base.
The Taycan seems a very fast car given its weight handicap and worthy of the marque but for this kind of money many car lovers would prefer to own a "proper" performance car rather than an EV with all its deficits and inconveniences.
I believe the ICE will carry on for a long time and with the economic hardship most countries face including the car industry as a result of the consequences of the on-going pandemic, legislations and directives against conventional fuels will be delayed further.
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Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)
To buy the Taycan, first you have to be among the smallest group of early buyers for expensive EVs, an innovator. Someone can easily decide to buy a Nissan LEAF but not a €150.000 worth of new, complicated and potentially not fully reliable technology.
Second you must have a large disposable income to spend for this type of electric vehicle and third you must be able to afford more than one car. I don't think the Taycan will fully gratify a car lover after the initial enthusiasm wears off and the technical complications start to take their toll.
Therefore, I am not surprised that Porsche have difficulty to find enough customers, especially now that money is generally tight.
Assuming someone is a friend of Porsche, this person for the money of an entry level Taycan can buy a very satisfying Carrera or spend less on a Panamera4. Both cars are perfectly usable with the minimum of fuss. If someone's urban or professional environment requires the use of an EV this person can buy a Japanese or Korean runabout for a fraction of the cost of the Taycan and keep a proper ICE performance car for weekends and vacations.
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"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"
Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)
Test drove the Taycan Turbo S this morning. Whilst very fast, left me unimpressed. No emotion at all. The handling was superb, very agile And razor sharp feeling. But the powertrain felt soulless.
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Aug 20, 2020 1:46:27 PM
- EnglishManInNY
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Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)
starting to see lease deals here in the NY area on Taycan 4s....but still way too expensive. I have owned a BMW i3, i8 and a number of Teslas now. EVs are fun with the Model 3 performance being prob the best so far. It's like a little go kart. But I am obviously still a fan of big V8s, NA 911s and will be as long as I can buy one. But I will always have an electric car or 2 from now on.
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Aug 20, 2020 5:03:30 PM
- reginos
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Aug 20, 2020 7:51:14 PM
- EnglishManInNY
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Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)
I would pick the 720s - I love the boosty engine and it revs as fast as the GT3. It just doesn't scream as much as the GT3.
I assume I could have a simple daily - the Model 3 I don't drive much since my wife took it off my hands without asking. I daily the 850. I got the 850 because of the V8 and the fact I can always get another E in the future. V8s maybe not.
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Tesla Model S P100d. 2018 991.2 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Performance. 2020 Aston Martin Vantage. 2020 Mclaren 720S coupe. 🥳
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