Crown

I can't tell if you can order the GT w/o the black roof, can anyone tell me? thanks

I’d be careful about ordering the green unless you see it in person. I was very interested in Aventurine Green for a 992, but when I saw it in person it looked like olive drab metallic. Pretty awful, I thought..

I can't tell if you can order the GT w/o the black roof, can anyone tell me? thanks

McLaren has MSO, special wishes, if you want you can have the roof painted in any colour you wish 

BiTurbo:

I understand the context very well, what I don't understand is, why everyone here needs to write down their own long theory to prove a point about how a daily drive Porsche GT car is superior to its rivals that have power and weight advantage

 

What you didn't understand was called simple physics. 

Traction matters the most when launching from at rest.

Someone could jacked up the turbo S to be a Dakar rally car and the result will still be the same, it can put the power down while the 720S can't. Give the 720S another 500HP and it will still lose the initial part. it is traction limited.

Whoopsy:

What you didn't understand was called simple physics. 

Traction matters the most when launching from at rest.

Someone could jacked up the turbo S to be a Dakar rally car and the result will still be the same, it can put the power down while the 720S can't. Give the 720S another 500HP and it will still lose the initial part. it is traction limited.

 

Do you know what's the fastest 1/4 mile time a Performante has run ? 10.2

Here's your simple physics with carwow that only seem to apply on certain cars with AWD system

If this isn't dodgy as hell, I don't know what else you'd call it

You are comparing apples and pears again. While the Performante has better grip than the 720 S it does not have the torque to launch as hard as the turbo cars. Here is your answer in simple terms:

Performante - lots of grip, good power but lack of torque.

720 S - lots of torque and power but lack of grip.

Turbo S - lots torque and power and the best grip of them all by virtue of 4x4 and most weight on the rears wheels.

The driver of the Performante was not great and probably left one or two tenths out there - even on the third attempt. That said, over 400m the Turbo S should beat the Performante the vast majority of the time. Above 200km/h they would be much closer though and as we all agree the 720 S would be much faster than both of them above 200km/h.

No need for any conspiracy theories here.

This isn't about conspiracy theory.

Since you brought up the torque difference (Which I expected), the torque never changed with the other german magazine tester cars (If they match the UK press car)  launching the Turbo S doesn't require any special skills, yet the 1/4 mile time isn't even close to Carwow's 10.1 on a tarmac that doesn't look anything like prepped or better suited for drag racing.

Unless you have a new theory about cars running faster with AWD and carrying extra weight in the rear on poor tarmac which I've never heard of before 

992 Turbo S vs 991 GT2 RS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZcE9hELXNE

Topspeed:

992 Turbo S vs 991 GT2 RS

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZcE9hELXNE

 

In this video they (again) used the track mode (SportPlus with steep wing), unfortunately. In Sport the turbo would have been around 1.5s quicker to 300 and also quite faster above 300.

BiTurbo:

Whoopsy:

What you didn't understand was called simple physics. 

Traction matters the most when launching from at rest.

Someone could jacked up the turbo S to be a Dakar rally car and the result will still be the same, it can put the power down while the 720S can't. Give the 720S another 500HP and it will still lose the initial part. it is traction limited.

 

Do you know what's the fastest 1/4 mile time a Performante has run ? 10.2

Here's your simple physics with carwow that only seem to apply on certain cars with AWD system

If this isn't dodgy as hell, I don't know what else you'd call it

 

So what is your beef again? Not believing in physics?

Performante also have AWD for traction at launch btw.

Plus, cars are running at different days with different weather conditions. Should I go on again and explain details on how weather conditions can affect engine performance? The 10.1 from the turbo S cannot be directly compared to the 10.2 from the Performante as they are from different days. 

Again, it's all simple physics. 

Whoopsy:

So what is your beef again? Not believing in physics?

Performante also have AWD for traction at launch btw.

Plus, cars are running at different days with different weather conditions. Should I go on again and explain details on how weather conditions can affect engine performance? The 10.1 from the turbo S cannot be directly compared to the 10.2 from the Performante as they are from different days. 

Again, it's all simple physics. 

I guess if I showed  you some of the dyno numbers that were tested, you'd still revert to simple physics and AWD.

Whatever you say chief 
 

BiTurbo:

Whoopsy:

So what is your beef again? Not believing in physics?

Performante also have AWD for traction at launch btw.

Plus, cars are running at different days with different weather conditions. Should I go on again and explain details on how weather conditions can affect engine performance? The 10.1 from the turbo S cannot be directly compared to the 10.2 from the Performante as they are from different days. 

Again, it's all simple physics. 

I guess if I showed  you some of the dyno numbers that were tested, you'd still revert to simple physics and AWD.

Whatever you say chief 
 

Go ahead and dyno the UK press car then if you are so convinced.

Btw, those wheel dyno numbers needed corrections too to account for temperature and humidity. Oh be sure to bring any other car you wanted to be tested to the same dyno on the same day.

Actually you know what, why don't you unbolt that engine in the UK press car and put it on a engine dyno to test, that will be the most accurate way to verify if it is as you claimed, a ringer. 

--

There are no more "press cars" with different HP numbers......if you're early enough u can pick a color and off you go. (Porsche)

AutoBILD Sports Cars, real testing.

Performante 0-100 kph in 2.6 seconds and 0-200 kph in 8.3 seconds.

992 Turbo S 0-100 kph in 2.54 seconds and 0-200 kph in 8.5 seconds.

Not sure that the "lack of torque" really matters. 

The 992 Turbo S dealer car (slightly over 3000 km, almost empty fuel tank, mine was around half) didn't drive away, neither did the Performante, so performance is very similar. Markus would argue that the Turbo S was in Sport Plus mode and it was but the dealer claimed that in Sport Plus the car produces slightly more boost and has faster shifting times, which I can rely to.

The Performante is three years old and has a n/a engine, so I think it performs pretty well but it is not supposed to be a drag racer or daily driver. I am pretty sure the Turbo S is a much better daily driver but I also know that it sounds like crap (the Turbo S driver says he heard the Performante even when i was half a kilometre ahead of him when I fully accelerated, so... ). I get it, Porsche claims this is what customers want but I had one and didn't want it, so... 

What I love about the Turbo S is the refinement of the car, the whole package is almost perfect, the Turbo S is like a castle, built for eternity, it is difficult to explain. It is certainly the perfect daily driver, even if I have to admit that it looks more spectacular and eye-catching than the previous 991 Turbo S. The interior is just perfect, finally it is at a level where I can say "good job, Porsche". I do not like that it looks like any 911 interior, this is where Porsche could have done a better job but it is how it is.

In the end, it doesn't matter how the 992 Turbo S performs vs. the Performante because the Performante is a different type of car, not really a daily driver and without room for luggage (or small kids) in the back. 

The 992 Turbo S is actually without competitor if you take a closer look. I still think however that, for it's performance, it is overpriced. I think that the 720S is the better deal in this segment, especially if someone is looking for a fun car, not a daily driver. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

The rumors say that press cars had a dyno detecting algorithm. 

Not sure Porsche can afford this (anymore) because it could have serious consequences, speaking of the VW scandal and all.

The problem with turbo engines in general is that you can easily manipulate boost pressure. I know an engineer at a car company (I won't tell the brand) who programmed 0.2 bar more boost pressure in his "own" car in every rev range by the press of a certain "button" in the interior. It is easier than many think. 
With n/a engines, things are much more complicated. Actually, the V10 engines often lack the claimed power, so Audi/Lamborghini try to choose an engine with the proper power output. 

If you guys think that everything is played fair and by the book, you are so wrong. I could tell you stories (especially regarding tires and chassis setups...tires with stock look and profile but different compound for example or chassis setups which aren't possible on stock cars, etc.).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

If you guys think that everything is played fair and by the book, you are so wrong. I could tell you stories (especially regarding tires and chassis setups...tires with stock look and profile but different compound for example or chassis setups which aren't possible on stock cars, etc.).

No one doubts a 911 Turbo S can pull hard off the line, but logically speaking, a 10,1 is not happening with just 650hp @ 1,6xx kg 

I thought I'd hold this from everyone and see how many experts we happen to have around here and would like to share with us their limited experience and knowledge about drag racing and pull all kinds of abracadabra's out of their Porsche caps

Aftermarket wheels + Michelin PS 4S not approved by McLaren.

Thoughtful, well expressed post.

This discussion is hilarious. Do any of you believe that fractional differences in acceleration times influence whether someone buys a car? 

When you're going through hell.....keep going.

nberry:

This discussion is hilarious. Do any of you believe that fractional differences in acceleration times influence whether someone buys a car? 

Agreed. In the US if you are silly enough to try this on the street you better hope the judge is aware of the difference and cuts you a break for being in the slower car.   
The only thing sillier is wanting to make more noise in the process. Judges and cops never like that. 

Nick and Leawood, you mean you don't you want to keep discussing how many angels can fit on the head of a pin? 

And why do I buy a car?  Because I am an idiot buying on impulse, and I'm inexplicably proud of it.

nberry:

This discussion is hilarious. Do any of you believe that fractional differences in acceleration times influence whether someone buys a car? 

Not really but you should see what "fanboys" of both brands have to say on various social media sites. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

nberry:

This discussion is hilarious. Do any of you believe that fractional differences in acceleration times influence whether someone buys a car? 

+1 

2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White

RC:

 

The 992 Turbo S dealer car (slightly over 3000 km, almost empty fuel tank, mine was around half) didn't drive away, neither did the Performante, so performance is very similar. Markus would argue that the Turbo S was in Sport Plus mode and it was but the dealer claimed that in Sport Plus the car produces slightly more boost and has faster shifting times, which I can rely to.

 

SportPlus should only have a aerodynamical disadvantage above 200kph, i.e. no major difference to be expected below that level 

BTW, the dealer info is incorrect: boost pressure and engine power are exactly (!) the same in Sport and SportPlus. 

bluelines:

nberry:

This discussion is hilarious. Do any of you believe that fractional differences in acceleration times influence whether someone buys a car? 

+1 

A classic case of "But who's counting?"

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

Its not a case of trying to convince anyone to buy a different car or not. You are never going to change anyones mind. Cars are as much a heart thing as a brain thing. Debating the performance figures of cars is part of the fun and passion. Thirty years ago we did it at school and the topic was hot hatchbacks. Now it is proper cars. Over time as more people test or drag the Turbo S it will emerge where it fits into the pecking order as that will show what is the norm and what are the outliers. For now let us have our fun or ignore if it does not interest you. I find it much more interesting than talking politics or Covid 19 all the time of which you get an overdose every day!

Caymanisking:

Its not a case of trying to convince anyone to buy a different car or not. You are never going to change anyones mind. Cars are as much a heart thing as a brain thing. Debating the performance figures of cars is part of the fun and passion. Thirty years ago we did it at school and the topic was hot hatchbacks. Now it is proper cars. Over time as more people test or drag the Turbo S it will emerge where it fits into the pecking order as that will show what is the norm and what are the outliers. For now let us have our fun or ignore if it does not interest you. I find it much more interesting than talking politics or Covid 19 all the time of which you get an overdose every day!

+1 seems some of the old guys on here forgot it's a sports car chat forum which means discussing all aspects of performance especially acceleration  

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

2018 McLaren 720S 

993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.

The only time men are glad that something being "short" is a good thing is when they talk about acceleration times!

TB993tt:

Caymanisking:

Its not a case of trying to convince anyone to buy a different car or not. You are never going to change anyones mind. Cars are as much a heart thing as a brain thing. Debating the performance figures of cars is part of the fun and passion. Thirty years ago we did it at school and the topic was hot hatchbacks. Now it is proper cars. Over time as more people test or drag the Turbo S it will emerge where it fits into the pecking order as that will show what is the norm and what are the outliers. For now let us have our fun or ignore if it does not interest you. I find it much more interesting than talking politics or Covid 19 all the time of which you get an overdose every day!

+1 seems some of the old guys on here forgot it's a sports car chat forum which means discussing all aspects of performance especially acceleration  

Unless nberry wants us to start a very sensitive topic about the US Presidential Election 2020 and a name many are allergic to, Donald Trump 

Anyway this is from AMuS Test

992 Turbo S vs McLaren GT

0-80:  2,0  /  2,5
0-100:  2,7  /  3,2
0-160:  5,8  /  6,4
0-200:  8,9  /  9,5
0-240:  13,6  /  14,2
0-300:  27,5  /  30,9

1/4 Mile: 10,4  /  10,9

Braking:

100 - 0(km/h): 31,4 m  /  33,3 m

HHR Lap Time:

Porsche - 1:50.0 / Vmax - 268 km/h
McLaren - 1:55.1 / Vmax - 270 km/h

Weight: 1,649 kg  /  1,557 kg

Tires: Pirelli P Zero  /  Pirelli P Zero

The AMuS numbers seem so identical to the Porsche official numbers you wonder if the tester maybe went to pub for the day and just inserted the numbers in the brochure and extrapolated for the ones not in the brochure. :-)

Caymanisking:

The AMuS numbers seem so identical to the Porsche official numbers you wonder if the tester maybe went to pub for the day and just inserted the numbers in the brochure and extrapolated for the ones not in the brochure. :-)

Or maybe AM&S uses the same test protocols and even similar test equipment as Porsche?

Mike

918 Spyder + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T