Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: CGT record demolished! - Page2

Dec 15, 2004 11:17:58 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: CGT owners selfesteem demolished?

Phil, if your argumentation is just putting words in my mouth misrepresenting my conversation with nick, then don't expect an answer from me on that subject, I don't have the time to waste re-explaining what I just said very clearly (women always do that too and drives me nuts, of course we guys don't listen

).
By the way, if you think someone can build a car that can be full sized, offer daily driver qualities to some extent, a state of the art and powerful engine, decent street car active and passive safety features, (and a roof

)and still be the fastest "4 wheel vehicle" around a track, then you are being very ingenious to put it lightly

luckily for them the Porsche engineers are not so they won't be sheeding any tears with the Donkervoort nor will Ben or the other CGT owners. You can't have everything in one package.
BTW the radical turbo is even faster than the Donkervoort and CGT and I have mentioned it everytime the CGT's ring record was claimed, here and in other boards. So much for that.

Next
Threads

Dec 15, 2004 11:51:29 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: W8MM

Re: CGT record demolished!

Quote:
W8MM said:
Quote:
nberry said:
Carlos you can bring up Rings times as often as you like. I will be waiting to Donkervoort you.

OK, Nick, here's a thought experiment for you:

If Donkers were available in La Jolla, would you buy one?

Why or why not?

I believe I answer the question in my prior response. If my goal was to track a car on a regularly basis I would buy the car. I have no idea what the cost of the car is but certainly it would be a serious contender.

Do you realize that with my mediocre driving skills I could probably beat the CGT even if Walter Roerhl was drivng it? The margin is that great!

The Donkervoort is different from the Radical and the 959 in that just about anyone can buy one.It is an unlimited production car which out of the box can destroy the Enzo, CGT or any other production car. Not bad for a car probably priced about a 1/10th of these supercars.

So if I bought it for track work, I would be the new sheriff in La Jolla and S.Calf. tracks.

However, since I do not track cars then I would not buy one. Why? Because what is important to me in a car is a fine balance between;

1.sexy styling,

2.excellent performance,

3.relative road/cornering compliance,

4.sound,

5.exclusivity

6.and above all FUN TO DRIVE

Next
Threads

Dec 15, 2004 11:59:33 PM

brunner: Veteran; Loc: E. Europe , Romania; Posts: 1125, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 28, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: CGT record demolished!

Quote:
Because what is important to me in a car is a fine balance between;
1.sexy styling,
2.excellent performance,
3.relative road/cornering compliance,
4.sound,
5.exclusivity
6.and above all FUN TO DRIVE

Are you aware that everything you said also applies to Porsches? Except the exclusivity thing, which is some kind of a fetish to you.. (although in these parts a porsche is as exclusive as you can get)

If yes, then back off.
If not, try to actually READ what we write here.

Next
Threads

Dec 16, 2004 1:21:56 AM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: brunner

Re: CGT record demolished!

Quote:
brunner said:
Quote:
Because what is important to me in a car is a fine balance between;
1.sexy styling,
2.excellent performance,
3.relative road/cornering compliance,
4.sound,
5.exclusivity
6.and above all FUN TO DRIVE

Are you aware that everything you said also applies to Porsches? Except the exclusivity thing, which is some kind of a fetish to you.. (although in these parts a porsche is as exclusive as you can get)

If yes, then back off.
If not, try to actually READ what we write here.

They all apply to Porsche? Porsche is sexy and stylish? Porsche has excellent sound? Porsche is fun to drive? Compared to what; a Kia or Miata?

Brunner this much I will acknowledge. A Porsche is the Volvo of the sport car world. Reliable, safe and

Next
Threads

Dec 16, 2004 3:48:18 AM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: CGT owners selfesteem demolished?

I still havent heard anyone explain to me why it is remotely stupid to compare the Donkervoort to the CGT.

Quote:
carlos fromspain said:
By the way, if you think someone can build a car that can be full sized, offer daily driver qualities to some extent, a state of the art and powerful engine, decent street car active and passive safety features, (and a roof )and still be the fastest "4 wheel vehicle" around a track, then you are being very ingenious to put it lightly

Speaking of misunderstanding eachother. Here's what I REALLY said:

"So if we buy a CGT we expect to get the ultimate ride, with the ultimate combination of style, design, technology, power, excitement, driveability...and speed, right?"

Carlos, since this is a Porsche/sportscar board, I take it that we all search for the perfect SPORTScar, not perfect FAMILYcar.
The comination of "perfect familycar + fastest on the track" is pretty impossible, I agree, but the combination "perfect sportscar and fastest on the track" shouldnt, I hope.

It dawns on me that I have no idea why YOU think Porsche built this car.
So a couple of questions to Carlos and anyone else who thinks I'm a retard (my interpretation, not your words) for comparing the Donkervoort to the CGT.
These are NOT meant as retorical questions, but merely an attempt to figure out if we're talking from two completely different sets of beliefs.

1) Why did Porche build the CGT? For what purpose?
-cruising, looking good, Le mans, millionaire's fun car, Porsche tech show-off, something else or all of these?
2) Who is the car built for? (other than just "rich people".)
3) Do you think the CGT is a compromise in any way? If so, how/where?
4) Do you think the CGT is Porsches attempt to build the best sportscar?

As inspiration, here's what Porsche writes on their homepage:

CGT- The ultimate Porsche.
"As a pure encapsulation of Porsche engineering, the Carrera GT is a natural evolution based on more than 23,000 race victories. A road-going supercar built for uncompromising performance and unlimited driving pleasure.

The lightweight chassis combines with a low center of gravity and balanced weight distribution to achieve unprecedented cornering speeds.

With such uncompromising performance, the Carrera GT is a genuine racing machine. With its cultured refinement and all-round versatility, it's a truly powerful presence on the road."

::::

"...a genuine racing machine".
"...unprecedented cornering speeds".
"...A road-going supercar built for uncompromising performance and unlimited driving pleasure".

Well, call me silly, but isn't this EXACTLY the benchmarks for ALL sportscars? Including the Donkervoort?
Porsche doesnt call this "a nice compromise between practical everyday roadcar and fast trackcar", neither does Donkervoort.
The two cars have been built for more or less the same purpose, I think.
Achievement of the combination of ultimate handling and speed.

I simply can't see why you wouldn't wanna compare the Donkervoort to the CGT.
Unless you just don't like the fact that the CGT was beaten at its own game.

"WHY CANT WE ALL JUST...GET ALONG"?
A last remark:
It's safe to say we're all enthusiasts and all have our beliefs, preferences etc.
We all vigorously defend these beliefs, and thats great. However, I think we (and I include myself here) are being borderline aggressive in our argumentation and start dissing eachother. Passion and commitment rules. Aggression sucks. Just my humble opinion and 2 cent-corny-christmas-Hallmark-moral-greeting

Next
Threads

Dec 16, 2004 7:10:16 AM

Justin: Veteran; Loc: San Diego, CA, USA; Posts: 979, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 12, 2003; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: CGT owners selfesteem demolished?

I believe I follow your logic here, but I also must admit that marketing literature and Porsche's internal discussion about the direction of the vehicle are two different things. To most people out there, the Enzo/CGT are the pinnacle of sports car performance.

More importantly perhaps, which one does our fictional 10 year old Jimmy have on his wall in poster form? A Lotus Seven/Radical SR3 Turbo or the Carrera GT?

Now this analysis comes before even talking about what owners (who are willing to pay $400k+ for a car), want in a supercar. CGT owners shouldn't be embarassed because obviously they knew there were cheaper track cars out there with better performance (hopefully). What about people who pay $1Million for their cars? Do they expect an F1 racer?

- J

PS: We should be civil enough to have discussions of this sort. Too many heated threads...

Next
Threads

Dec 16, 2004 7:25:34 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: CGT owners selfesteem demolished?

Phil, I'll keep it short cause this is just darn silly, a "supercar" such as the CGT (or Enzo, Zonda, MclAren F1, etc) or is built as Porsche says for ""...A road-going supercar built for uncompromising performance and unlimited driving pleasure" but that still doesn't mean it can beat everysingle "4-wheeled vehicle" that hits the track! thats imporsible to do! becuase physics says that if you build a simple and kit car sized spaceframe chasis, add a very small cheap high strung engine, add huge downforce aids, and strip it to the bones to sub-1000 pounds curb weight you are going to have an advantage over any real car with roof, safety features, normal sized dimentions, normal cabin ergonomics, normal stret car interior, etc i.e. what we consider a CAR, even if its a supercar. These Racdical, Ariel Atom, Donkervoort, Caterham, etc resemble so little what we consider a car that the advantage they gain in pricetag and performance is not fair to compare it. The CGT is a CAR, if Porsche wanted to build a to beat anything in the ring, they can build a kit car and don't you think they could do a better job than the little dutch company?
If to you the Donkervoort is a normal car that should be compared to the CGT or Enzo on equal terms, then fine, but understand why others may not. I think we can agree on that

Nick, the Radical is easier to purchase than a Donkervoort. They are a larger company and their infrastructure is also large, reaching into the US.

Next
Threads

Dec 16, 2004 11:59:08 AM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: Justin

Re: CGT owners selfesteem demolished?

Quote:
More importantly perhaps, which one does our fictional 10 year old Jimmy have on his wall in poster form? A Lotus Seven/Radical SR3 Turbo or the Carrera GT?

In an informal study conducted by myself at a car show last Sunday, I found 10 year old "Jimmy" is more interested in the Ford GT than the Carrera GT.

Quote:
PS: We should be civil enough to have discussions of this sort. Too many heated threads...

Absolutely! And thank you for saying so.

Next
Threads

Dec 16, 2004 12:19:37 PM

palenimbus: Expert; Loc: Baden-Württemberg, Germany; Posts: 1824, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: CGT owners selfesteem demolished?

Quote:
carlos fromspain said:
if Porsche wanted to build a to beat anything in the ring, they can build a kit car and don't you think they could do a better job than the little dutch company?

Excellent point, Carlos.

Next
Threads

Dec 16, 2004 12:44:12 PM

brunner: Veteran; Loc: E. Europe , Romania; Posts: 1125, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 28, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: CGT record demolished!

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
brunner said:
Quote:
Because what is important to me in a car is a fine balance between;
1.sexy styling,
2.excellent performance,
3.relative road/cornering compliance,
4.sound,
5.exclusivity
6.and above all FUN TO DRIVE

Are you aware that everything you said also applies to Porsches? Except the exclusivity thing, which is some kind of a fetish to you.. (although in these parts a porsche is as exclusive as you can get)

If yes, then back off.
If not, try to actually READ what we write here.

They all apply to Porsche? Porsche is sexy and stylish? Porsche has excellent sound? Porsche is fun to drive?

Yes, yes, yes and yes.
And for the record, i consider the 997 much more beautiful than the confused looking F430 and the PSE much nicer sounding than the whiny modena exhaust.
Now you just proved you don't care about reasonable conversations, and i can go back to just reading your drivel and laughing to myself.

Next
Threads

Dec 16, 2004 1:50:43 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: brunner

Re: CGT record demolished!

Ok, Carlos - so now at least we agree to disagree

I hear what you're saying, and to some degree it makes perfect sense. I think I understand your argument.
You say: "Compare supercars to supercars and kitcars to kitcars", right? Fair enough.
Well, in that case I disagree with you, cause I believe a supercar should be just that. Super - meaning a (production) supercar superior to other (production)cars. Why else make a "supercar"?

So I giggle when a socalled "supercar" gets beaten by something most of us in here would not consider a supercar.
(Btw...exactly what constitutes a supercar?)

And concerning your argument, that the Donkervoort is less of a REAL car than the CGT: If by "CAR" you mean "something you can use everyday -something with both driving appeal, comfort and style", I would have to agree with you, but if you mean "a no-compromise driving machine" I strongly disagree. In fact I would have to say that the Donkervoort does a better job at being a "real" car than the CGT (referring to the Nurnburgring record). Or should I say, it does a better job at being a more uncompromised car.

I also agree with Justin, that this (at least to me) is not necessarily a matter of embarrasment for the CGT owners. I dont think any of them ever felt they had to choose between the Donkervoort and the CGT.
But that doesnt mean it wouldnt feel awkward being a CGT-owner who just pay big bucks to get the ultimate production car...only to read this article we all debate so vigorously.
I know I would.

Carlos said:
"The CGT is a CAR, if Porsche wanted to build a to beat anything in the ring, they can build a kit car and don't you think they could do a better job than the little dutch company? "
Sure they could. Trouble is they could never get away with it even if they wanted to. Imagine the reaction they would get from CGT-owners, who found out they could purchase a faster car at a fraction of the cost?
Forget the huge difference in price and "status". We're talking bragging rights, here. And comparing penises.

I'd truly hate spending 400K $ on a car thinking Id bought the smoothest and fastest production car around...only to hear some twat at the other end of the bar tell his buddies how he smoked my CGT with his toy-kitcar-Donker-thing.

Call me crazy...but I think some CGT owners feel the same way.
Why dont we ask them?

Carlos! Great having you input here. I truely appreciate a heated debate!

Next
Threads

Dec 16, 2004 2:29:53 PM

W8MM: Rennteam Master; Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States; Posts: 3995, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 8, 2003; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: CGT owners selfesteem demolished?

Quote:
DrPhil said:
1) Why did Porche build the CGT? For what purpose?
-cruising, looking good, Le mans, millionaire's fun car, Porsche tech show-off, something else or all of these?
2) Who is the car built for? (other than just "rich people".)
3) Do you think the CGT is a compromise in any way? If so, how/where?
4) Do you think the CGT is Porsches attempt to build the best sportscar?

Quote:
Karl Ludvigsen's Porsche: Excellence was expected quotes Wendelin Wiedeking saying at the start of the Carrera GT project, "We have to show the world that we're still the best in sports cars. Let's design a superb top-of-the-line sports car in a high price segment, which in its style and technology would fit into the Porsche range. It can also showcase our abilities in design and engineering."

Seems like a pretty straightforward statement of purpose to me.

The motivating reasons behind events are often very simple for the people actually taking part in the events. One shouldn't try too hard to discover deeper meanings in simple things, lest it betray one's discomfort in accepting the simply obvious.

Then, speaking of Cayenne and beyond,

Quote:
W. Wiedeking per Ludvigsen:"Every day I have to inspire enough customers to buy our products," the Porsche chief continued. That seemed obvious enough, but he realized that there was another dimension to the Porsche proposition: "I also have to take care that none of our customers is obliged to defend his buying decision in his social milieu. That's an important facet of our corporate philosophy."

One can speculate as to whether W. W. has delivered on this last nugget in the actual fact of the Carrera GT.

But, notice that Herr Wiedeking referred to the buyers' "social milieu", not merely any remote acquaintence of the buyers or any anonymous critic of the car. I think he is talking about the buyers' friends. This is an important distinction worth some reflection.

I am eagerly awaiting delivery of my Carrera GT in the near future. I sold a number of Porsche and BMW race cars in my small collection to make way for it. I find it to be the perfect compromise between ultimate track car and weekend/summer-roads fun car. The 962, although somewhat faster, was very much less practical, even to take to a track event. The BMW-McLaren 320 racer was just as impractical. The IROC 911RS wasn't nearly as fast or graceful under stress as the Carrera GT figures to be. I think the Carrera GT is just perfect for my uses.

Of whom does my "social milieu" consist? Well, there are you guys. My neighbors. My track-day buddies. My friends in and around my business. Etc. So far, I'm not persuaded that I need to defend my purchase of a Carrera GT to anyone whom I find sociable.

Cheers,

Next
Threads

Dec 16, 2004 2:31:10 PM

Martin Tyler: Co-Pilot; Loc: London, UK; Posts: 230, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2003; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: CGT record demolished!

Quote:
DrPhil said:
I'd truly hate spending 400K $ on a car thinking Id bought the smoothest and fastest production car around...only to hear some twat at the other end of the bar tell his buddies how he smoked my CGT with his toy-kitcar-Donker-thing.

Call me crazy...but I think some CGT owners feel the same way.

I have to agree with everything Carlos previously said. If anyone spent 400k on a CGT to get the fastest track car possible then they should have done some more research first. These small, light truely no comprimise kitcars have always been faster haven't they? Surely the only CGT owners who would be upset about being 'beaten' like this were a few rich fools that bought the car not knowing much about cars but thinking it is the best.

Giggle all you like, but you are laughing at people in your head rather than any real CGT owners or Porsche fans.

Next
Threads

Dec 16, 2004 3:10:30 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: brunner

Re: CGT record demolished!

Quote:
brunner said:
Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
brunner said:
Quote:
Because what is important to me in a car is a fine balance between;
1.sexy styling,
2.excellent performance,
3.relative road/cornering compliance,
4.sound,
5.exclusivity
6.and above all FUN TO DRIVE

Are you aware that everything you said also applies to Porsches? Except the exclusivity thing, which is some kind of a fetish to you.. (although in these parts a porsche is as exclusive as you can get)

If yes, then back off.
If not, try to actually READ what we write here.

They all apply to Porsche? Porsche is sexy and stylish? Porsche has excellent sound? Porsche is fun to drive?

Yes, yes, yes and yes.
And for the record, i consider the 997 much more beautiful than the confused looking F430 and the PSE much nicer sounding than the whiny modena exhaust.
Now you just proved you don't care about reasonable conversations, and i can go back to just reading your drivel and laughing to myself.

Brunner do not personalize this. It is all in good fun. I believe Porsche makes a terrific sport car depsite its head in the sand approach. My comments mirror what other Porsche owners are coming to believe.

What is funny is Porsche knows this and the reason for their branching out into the SUV and probable sedan market.

Next
Threads

Dec 16, 2004 5:41:56 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: Martin Tyler

Re: CGT record demolished!

Quote:
Martin Tyler said:

Giggle all you like, but you are laughing at people in your head rather than any real CGT owners or Porsche fans.

Oooh, the voices! The voices! MAKE THEM STOP!
They command me to..to..to buy a Donkervoort! Make them stooop!

Ok, a short recap: So far (according to others) I'm giggling at imaginary people, being "ingenious" lighly put...(read "borderline lame"), been told I have a lot to learn about supercars, I dont understand the rich guys who buy these vehicles, been compared to women who make Carlos nuts...hehehe! Damn! This is fun!

I cant say I know what its like spending 400K on a car. A Boxster S in my home country "only" costs about 250.000 $ with a few extras. Yes, we have the highest taxes on cars in the World. It's nuts.
But let me tell you, that buying a Boxster S at that price may not in it self force you to take a serious look at other, more affordable cars...but knowing you can get e.g. an Opel Speedster or a Honda S2000 with almost the same performance..and both of them at appr. half the price of a Boxster... makes you think...is it worth the extra bucks?
I thought it was, but I'm a snob

....and I felt like getting a car that was both beautiful to look at and a thrill to drive.
But I seriously thought about the Honda, but let it go because it was too japanese..too hysterical.

Having said that, I'm still aware of the fact that the Honda 2000 and the Opel Speedster are both cars with equally good if not better abilities on the fast asphalt. Does it bother me that they are serious competitors track-drivingwise at a much lower price? Not really.
Do I think it is fair to compare the cars and their performances? Absolutely.
Even tho the Opel is a stripped down car compared to the Boxster. And even tho the price tags are different.

I'm pretty sure I would have to pull out some lame excuse if a much cheaper Opel kicked my Boxster's ass on road or track.

How do you like this one:
"Yeah, okay...so you beat me good...but it's not really fair...cuz your car is much cheaper. And besides...it's not a Porsche so it doesn't count!"

I cant speak for anyone but myself when I say that I bought a Porsche and not a Honda, Opel, Donkervoort or any other brand because my Porsche combines looks, great engineering, technology and power with a built-in viagra-effect and does a great job of polishing my ego.
I would feel stupid in a Donkervoort, I would be quality-unconscious in an S2000 and look plain silly in the Opel.

I think my closing comment on the Donkervoort/CGT challenge is this: Notice how losers always whine and come up with lame excuses...and winners dont?

Next
Threads

Dec 16, 2004 6:35:53 PM

Jeff (in SF): Pilot; Loc: SF, CA, USA , United States; Posts: 340, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 13, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: CGT record demolished!

Quote:
A Porsche is the Volvo of the sport car world. Reliable, safe and

I think Nick is referring to his sex life with this last line.

Next
Threads

Dec 16, 2004 7:41:15 PM

JP66: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Seattle , United States; Posts: 2217, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2003; Reply to: Jeff (in SF)

Re: CGT record demolished!

Quote:
Jeff (in SF) said:
Quote:
A Porsche is the Volvo of the sport car world. Reliable, safe and

I think Nick is referring to his sex life with this last line.

Probably not always "reliable" though ....

Next
Threads

Dec 16, 2004 8:50:31 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: CGT record demolished!

Quote:
DrPhil said:
Ok, Carlos - so now at least we agree to disagree

Hey, its a start!

No, seriously, I see were our views come apart, we have different definitions of a supercar or more specifically the CGT. For you, and I hope I don't misinterpret you, is a car which is superior in performance to any other 4 wheeled vehicle and with money being no object. But for me, its the ultimate performance car which combines the best know-how in engineering, state of the art materials, racecar technology, pure sportcar design and concept, with a deeper compromise for sport performance, yielding an exceptional performance and handling car at the track/street and yet still usable on the street. Its not the absolute fastest "thing" that can lap the track because that is imposible unless you compromise it so much it no longer resembles what we call a street car.
I.e. no one can make a supercar the likes of the Enzo or CGT that can beat a 900lbs sport prototype small bother such a Radical while still having a roof, doors, decent usability in the street, reliability, basic safety options, decent confort and cabin space, etc. The kit cars such as the Donkervoort stretch the envelope of the definition of "street car" so much that is not playing with the same rules.

In other words no supercar will ever beat a kit car in a track. So if you think that the ultimate supercar should be faster around the ring than "anything" on four wheels" then the CGT in not a supercar, not is the McLaren F1, nor Enzo, nor CLK-GTR, not GT1, not F40, nor Zonda, nor Koenigsegg, nor XJ220, etc.

Again, its a matter of semantics, what you consider the CGT to be, is different than what I do and I accept that, so its logical we relate the Donkervoort lap time to the CGT in a different way. My only point was that the Donkervoort beating the CGT at the ring is nothing notable, we already knew that kit cars are faster than any supercar (thats not the purpose of a supercar or it would be in the supercar class), and CGT owners couldn't care less cause they are such different concepts that one does not take merit from the other. Now if the Enzo beat the CGT at the ring then thats a different story... but thats not going to happpen

Glad we can keep this "heated" discussion clean and respectful

Next
Threads

Dec 24, 2004 11:18:34 PM

clutch: Newbie; Loc: London UK; Posts: 7, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 21, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: CGT record demolished!

Quote:
DrPhil said:
Quote:
Martin Tyler said:

Giggle all you like, but you are laughing at people in your head rather than any real CGT owners or Porsche fans.

Im sure the boxter s, woulkd be more suitable as a track car, honda and opels brakes engines arent tested to track limit as porsche is!

Oooh, the voices! The voices! MAKE THEM STOP!
They command me to..to..to buy a Donkervoort! Make them stooop!

Ok, a short recap: So far (according to others) I'm giggling at imaginary people, being "ingenious" lighly put...(read "borderline lame"), been told I have a lot to learn about supercars, I dont understand the rich guys who buy these vehicles, been compared to women who make Carlos nuts...hehehe! Damn! This is fun!

I cant say I know what its like spending 400K on a car. A Boxster S in my home country "only" costs about 250.000 $ with a few extras. Yes, we have the highest taxes on cars in the World. It's nuts.
But let me tell you, that buying a Boxster S at that price may not in it self force you to take a serious look at other, more affordable cars...but knowing you can get e.g. an Opel Speedster or a Honda S2000 with almost the same performance..and both of them at appr. half the price of a Boxster... makes you think...is it worth the extra bucks?
I thought it was, but I'm a snob ....and I felt like getting a car that was both beautiful to look at and a thrill to drive.
But I seriously thought about the Honda, but let it go because it was too japanese..too hysterical.

Having said that, I'm still aware of the fact that the Honda 2000 and the Opel Speedster are both cars with equally good if not better abilities on the fast asphalt. Does it bother me that they are serious competitors track-drivingwise at a much lower price? Not really.
Do I think it is fair to compare the cars and their performances? Absolutely.
Even tho the Opel is a stripped down car compared to the Boxster. And even tho the price tags are different.

I'm pretty sure I would have to pull out some lame excuse if a much cheaper Opel kicked my Boxster's ass on road or track.

How do you like this one:
"Yeah, okay...so you beat me good...but it's not really fair...cuz your car is much cheaper. And besides...it's not a Porsche so it doesn't count!"

I cant speak for anyone but myself when I say that I bought a Porsche and not a Honda, Opel, Donkervoort or any other brand because my Porsche combines looks, great engineering, technology and power with a built-in viagra-effect and does a great job of polishing my ego.
I would feel stupid in a Donkervoort, I would be quality-unconscious in an S2000 and look plain silly in the Opel.

I think my closing comment on the Donkervoort/CGT challenge is this: Notice how losers always whine and come up with lame excuses...and winners dont?

Next
Threads

Dec 25, 2004 12:17:22 AM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: clutch

Re: CGT record demolished!

Quote:
clutch said:
Quote:
DrPhil said:
Quote:
Martin Tyler said:

I'm pretty sure I would have to pull out some lame excuse if a much cheaper Opel kicked my Boxster's ass on road or track.

How do you like this one:
"Yeah, okay...so you beat me good...but it's not really fair...cuz your car is much cheaper. And besides...it's not a Porsche so it doesn't count!"

I cant speak for anyone but myself when I say that I bought a Porsche and not a Honda, Opel, Donkervoort or any other brand because my Porsche combines looks, great engineering, technology and power with a built-in viagra-effect and does a great job of polishing my ego.
I would feel stupid in a Donkervoort, I would be quality-unconscious in an S2000 and look plain silly in the Opel.

I think my closing comment on the Donkervoort/CGT challenge is this: Notice how losers always whine and come up with lame excuses...and winners dont?

So true especially about the ego and very entertaining. You should post more often.

Next
Threads

Dec 25, 2004 5:20:04 PM

Martin Tyler: Co-Pilot; Loc: London, UK; Posts: 230, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: CGT record demolished!

learn to quote a bit better nberry, i didnt say what your post says i said. Is technology difficult for you?

Merry Christmas

Next
Threads

Dec 25, 2004 6:21:29 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Martin Tyler

Re: CGT record demolished!

Quote:
Martin Tyler said:
learn to quote a bit better nberry, i didnt say what your post says i said. Is technology difficult for you?

Merry Christmas

Hmnn, I posted YOUR quote. I guess you do not mean what you write.

I hope Santa brought you an Oxford Dictionary on the English Language.

Merry Christmas!

Next
Threads

Dec 25, 2004 7:18:49 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: CGT record demolished!

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
clutch said:
Quote:
DrPhil said:
Quote:
Martin Tyler said:

I'm pretty sure I would have to pull out some lame excuse if a much cheaper Opel kicked my Boxster's ass on road or track.

How do you like this one:
"Yeah, okay...so you beat me good...but it's not really fair...cuz your car is much cheaper. And besides...it's not a Porsche so it doesn't count!"

I cant speak for anyone but myself when I say that I bought a Porsche and not a Honda, Opel, Donkervoort or any other brand because my Porsche combines looks, great engineering, technology and power with a built-in viagra-effect and does a great job of polishing my ego.
I would feel stupid in a Donkervoort, I would be quality-unconscious in an S2000 and look plain silly in the Opel.

I think my closing comment on the Donkervoort/CGT challenge is this: Notice how losers always whine and come up with lame excuses...and winners dont?

So true especially about the ego and very entertaining. You should post more often.

No reason to disagree or start figthing here, boys
The quote in question (about "Im pretty sure...cheaper Opel..." and "ego-thingy" right down to "...winners dont" is mine.
But thanks for your words

Next
Threads

Dec 25, 2004 7:20:47 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: CGT record demolished!

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
Martin Tyler said:
learn to quote a bit better nberry, i didnt say what your post says i said. Is technology difficult for you?

Merry Christmas

Hmnn, I posted YOUR quote. I guess you do not mean what you write. I hope Santa brought you an Oxford Dictionary on the English Language. Merry Christmas!

Hmmm, Nick. I hope Santa brought you new reading glasses, as well as the Oxford Dictionary.

For explanation, check back to the REAL source of the post you attributed to Martin Tyler.

Next
Threads

Dec 25, 2004 7:29:14 PM

Martin Tyler: Co-Pilot; Loc: London, UK; Posts: 230, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2003; Reply to: fritz

Re: CGT record demolished!

This quoting thing isnt difficult guys.. and Nick isnt the only one getting it wrong

Some people seem to manage to write their own message inside the quotes too.

Maybe if the 'post' text box was bigger it was be easier to see the nested quotes when you are replying to something.

Next
Threads

Dec 25, 2004 8:57:56 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Martin Tyler

Re: CGT record demolished!

Quote:
Martin Tyler said:
This quoting thing isnt difficult guys.. and Nick isnt the only one getting it wrong Some people seem to manage to write their own message inside the quotes too.

That happens frequently when you delete by accident the ending/closing "quote" UBBCode.

Next
Threads

Dec 30, 2004 9:52:59 AM

Martin Tyler: Co-Pilot; Loc: London, UK; Posts: 230, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: CGT record demolished!

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
Martin Tyler said:
learn to quote a bit better nberry, i didnt say what your post says i said. Is technology difficult for you?

Merry Christmas

Hmnn, I posted YOUR quote. I guess you do not mean what you write. I hope Santa brought you an Oxford Dictionary on the English Language. Merry Christmas!

I can see that i was right, technology must be difficult for you... either that or you are just embarrassed that you got it wrong, twice.

Top
Threads

Board	Subject	Last post	Views	Replies
Porsche	SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)	4/17/24 7:16 AM Gnil	778930	1798
Porsche	Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos)	4/7/24 11:48 AM Boxster Coupe GTS	442188	565
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021)	5/12/23 12:11 PM W8MM	263063	288
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022	3/12/24 8:28 AM DJM48	261337	323
Porsche	The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche	1/30/24 9:18 AM RC	85575	45
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift	3/15/24 1:23 PM CGX car nut	5781	50
Porsche	The moment I've been waiting for...	2/1/24 7:01 PM Pilot	881042	1364
Porsche	992 GT3	7/23/23 7:01 PM Grant	817255	3868
Porsche	Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!	2/10/24 4:43 PM nberry	391419	1526
Porsche	GT4RS	4/21/24 11:50 AM mcdelaug	390934	1454
Others	Tesla 2 the new thread	12/13/23 2:48 PM CGX car nut	373221	2401
Porsche	Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design	7/3/23 12:30 PM Porker	369186	797
Porsche	Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour	4/11/24 12:32 PM Ferdie	289533	668
Porsche	Collected my 997 GTS today	10/19/23 7:06 PM CGX car nut	261587	812
Lambo	Huracán EVO STO	7/30/23 6:59 PM mcdelaug	240454	346
Lotus	Lotus Emira	6/25/23 2:53 PM Enmanuel	230869	101
Others	Corvette C8	10/16/23 3:24 PM Enmanuel	221401	488
Others	Gordon Murray - T.50	11/22/23 10:27 AM mcdelaug	169574	387
Porsche	Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS	6/11/23 5:13 PM CGX car nut	141323	144
BMW M	2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now	12/29/23 9:04 AM RC	117836	303
Motor Sp.	2023 Formula One	12/19/23 5:38 AM Whoopsy	108853	685
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	3/7/24 4:22 PM Whoopsy	84373	239
AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	75234	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	53938	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	3/16/24 9:27 PM Whoopsy	25274	237
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	21191	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	19543	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	16602	120
AMG	[2022] Mercedes-AMG SL	4/23/24 1:24 PM RC	13850	225
Motor Sp.	24-Hour race Nürburgring 2018	5/25/23 10:42 PM Grant	11272	55

Crown

Forum - Thread

Re: CGT owners selfesteem demolished?

Re: CGT record demolished!

Re: CGT record demolished!

Re: CGT record demolished!

Re: CGT owners selfesteem demolished?

Re: CGT owners selfesteem demolished?

Re: CGT owners selfesteem demolished?

Re: CGT owners selfesteem demolished?

Re: CGT owners selfesteem demolished?

Re: CGT record demolished!

Re: CGT record demolished!

Re: CGT owners selfesteem demolished?

Re: CGT record demolished!

Re: CGT record demolished!

Re: CGT record demolished!

Re: CGT record demolished!

Re: CGT record demolished!

Re: CGT record demolished!

Re: CGT record demolished!

Re: CGT record demolished!

Re: CGT record demolished!

Re: CGT record demolished!

Re: CGT record demolished!

Re: CGT record demolished!

Re: CGT record demolished!

Re: CGT record demolished!

Re: CGT record demolished!

Forum

Boards