Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Can a Ferrari do this? (semi long) - Page2

Dec 23, 2004 11:41:36 AM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: ADias

Re: Can a Ferrari do this? (semi long)

Quote:
ADias said:

Jeff: well stated.

Re. RC's topic starter "Can Ferrari do this" the subject title was not really the issue. The issue was that RC's 997S did it w/ applomb. Can F360/CS do that? most probably, although in practice most 360/CS owners would not ever do it - and that justifies RC's subject line.

Yes, and that was my point with the CGT vs. the 997S for snow thrashing. The reasons a person doesn't go out and thrash his CGT are the same he doesn't his Fcar. Unlike the mass produced 997s which will most definetely lose GOBS of value no matter what the mileage (just like the 996), the CGT and Fcars are limited production cars which if taken care of will not tank (the CGT is probably not as sure to avoid this as an Fcar). So, it makes complete sense that one would take out the beater 997 or some other mass produced car in the stable to go snow thrashing instead of the Fcar (or CGT for that matter). The Fcars being compared (360/430) cost 2X+ more and are therefore not quite as disposable as the 99X. So, it's really not a matter of brand capability for snow thrashing, but more one of why would you want to?

BTW, this is an interesting post, eh:

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=67875&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD

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Dec 23, 2004 11:45:09 AM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: WCH

Re: Can a Ferrari do this? (semi long)

Quote:
WCH said:
"A good friend gets a F430 Spider and owns a Porsche too."

He's got that reversed! I have a Stradale and a C2 cab.

Yep, same here prior to the CGT. Even with 440 SC'd HP and a more sporty suspension, the C2 cab was still the "crusier" while the Stradale was taken out when real driving was going to occur.

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Dec 23, 2004 6:19:01 PM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: ben, lj

Re: Can a Ferrari do this? (semi long)

Quote:
ben, lj said:... Unlike the mass produced 997s which will most definetely lose GOBS of value no matter what the mileage (just like the 996), the CGT and Fcars are limited production cars which if taken care of will not tank (the CGT is probably not as sure to avoid this as an Fcar)...

Car "value maintaining" is not the state of mind of a true sports car aficionado. I drive a sports car for what it is - I wear no jewellery or bling watches.

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Dec 23, 2004 6:24:11 PM

Holminator: Veteran; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 1041, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2004; Reply to: ADias

Re: Can a Ferrari do this? (semi long)

ADias got it right!

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Dec 23, 2004 9:54:50 PM

Jeff (in SF): Pilot; Loc: SF, CA, USA , United States; Posts: 340, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 13, 2003; Reply to: ben, lj

Re: Can a Ferrari do this? (semi long)

Quote:
ben, lj said:
Quote:
WCH said:
"A good friend gets a F430 Spider and owns a Porsche too."

He's got that reversed! I have a Stradale and a C2 cab.

Yep, same here prior to the CGT. Even with 440 SC'd HP and a more sporty suspension, the C2 cab was still the "crusier" while the Stradale was taken out when real driving was going to occur.

You mean when the real POSING was going to occur. It's a fact - F car drivers don't drive their cars as much as P Car drivers and you said as much yourself.

"Disposable" Porsches? That's why people are still restoring cars from the 50's, 60's, etc. eh? Makes sense to me that you'd want to restore something that's disposable.

Ferrari's are the real disposable toy cars here. Any 355 that gets close to 30K miles and the looming HUGE costs of that service plummet in value. 80's 911's still command 50% of their original purchase price some 20 years on. I've got little to doubt that 996's will also see such residuals but obviously this is going to take some time to prove my point.

Ferrari is in the same peril Porsche was in during the early 90's. They're losing money and raising production 5%(see Jean Todt's interview in this month's Sports Car International). Their parent company isn't making much money either. Maserati is basically Ferrari's attempt to get into SUV's and sedans without using their name on the trunk badge but talk about plummeting resale values - have you seen a 2 year old Maserati? With BMW, Aston Martin, Mercedes, and Lambo all gunning for the 360/430 market segment, what will Ferrari do? Even now, when someone has $250K to spend, they usually spend on a Bentley or Maybach and not an Uglietti, I mean Scaglietti. Sorry for the rant but I find it insulting when someone throws around their net worth in such an obvious manner.

Interesting comparo however...When the Maybach GM was asked about the pricing of his cars, he said something to the effect that to a billionaire, purchasing a Maybach is akin to someone making $60,000 purchasing a $30 shirt. Perhaps Ben is a billionaire who can throw away Porsches as easily as he throws away his shirts?

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Dec 24, 2004 12:19:29 AM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: ADias

Re: Can a Ferrari do this? (semi long)

Quote:
ADias said:
Quote:
ben, lj said:... Unlike the mass produced 997s which will most definetely lose GOBS of value no matter what the mileage (just like the 996), the CGT and Fcars are limited production cars which if taken care of will not tank (the CGT is probably not as sure to avoid this as an Fcar)...

Car "value maintaining" is not the state of mind of a true sports car aficionado. I drive a sports car for what it is - I wear no jewellery or bling watches.

Ask anyone who knows me, I drive every one of my cars like I stole it! I modded the hell out of my 996 cab without any regard whatsoever to the fact I was going to lose every penny on it (sold it for 1/2 what I had in it after 4 years). I've got 4 cars and they all serve different purposes and miles are spread out among them based solely on utility and purpose. That said, I drive the sports cars whenever, wherever, and how ever I want.

BTW, other than a plain wedding band, I don't wear any jewelry (including a watch). And Jeff, all I wear is t-shirs and shorts. I'm such a status conscious poseur.

Had a blast today out in the mountains today with the CGT along with a couple friends with GT3s and one with an RX8. Sunday will see more of the same. But wait, the car is supposed to be sitting in the garage since I'm such a poseur.

And Jeff, yes people do restore the old hand made Porsches before they became mass produced throw aways. While we're talking about Sports Car Int'l stories, any other interesting Porsche related ones in this January issue?

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Dec 24, 2004 12:32:21 AM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: ben, lj

Re: Can a Ferrari do this? (semi long)

Quote:
ben, lj said:...Ask anyone who knows me, I drive every one of my cars like I stole it! I modded the hell out of my 996 cab without any regard whatsoever to the fact I was going to lose every penny on it (sold it for 1/2 what I had in it after 4 years). I've got 4 cars and they all serve different purposes and miles are spread out among them based solely on utility and purpose. That said, I drive the sports cars whenever, wherever, and how ever I want.

BTW, other than a plain wedding band, I don't wear any jewelry (including a watch). And Jeff, all I wear is t-shirs and shorts. I'm such a status conscious poseur.

Had a blast today out in the mountains today with the CGT along with a couple friends with GT3s and one with an RX8. Sunday will see more of the same. But wait, the car is supposed to be sitting in the garage since I'm such a poseur...

Ben: we all know that you are a good guy. I followed your CGT initiation (order - try - try to cancel - get) and it shows that the CGT is growing on you, as you clearly are putting the effort to learn it and enjoy it.

But... 911s (996 and 997) disposable? Nonsense, and you know that stating that in a 997-dedicated forum is... let's say a bit inappropriate. Besides, if they become disposable, thrown out by poseur morons, that's OK, many P-car lovers will pick those up and bring them to life!

Had a blast driving my "disposable" 996 this glorious northern California afternoon. What a car!

[Note: calling a 996/997 disposable does not fit your character well. It's the kind of nonsense Nick often fabricates... avoid too much contact w/ him in LJ, will you?

]

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Dec 24, 2004 12:46:32 AM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: ADias

Re: Can a Ferrari do this? (semi long)

Quote:
ADias said:
Quote:
ben, lj said:...Ask anyone who knows me, I drive every one of my cars like I stole it! I modded the hell out of my 996 cab without any regard whatsoever to the fact I was going to lose every penny on it (sold it for 1/2 what I had in it after 4 years). I've got 4 cars and they all serve different purposes and miles are spread out among them based solely on utility and purpose. That said, I drive the sports cars whenever, wherever, and how ever I want.

BTW, other than a plain wedding band, I don't wear any jewelry (including a watch). And Jeff, all I wear is t-shirs and shorts. I'm such a status conscious poseur.

Had a blast today out in the mountains today with the CGT along with a couple friends with GT3s and one with an RX8. Sunday will see more of the same. But wait, the car is supposed to be sitting in the garage since I'm such a poseur...

Ben: we all know that you are a good guy. I followed your CGT initiation (order - try - try to cancel - get) and it shows that the CGT is growing on you, as you clearly are putting the effort to learn it and enjoy it.

But... 911s (996 and 997) disposable? Nonsense, and you know that stating that in a 997-dedicated forum is... let's say a bit inappropriate. Besides, if they become disposable, thrown out by poseur morons, that's OK, many P-car lovers will pick those up and bring them to life!

Had a blast driving my "disposable" 996 this glorious northern California afternoon. What a car!

[Note: calling a 996/997 disposable does not fit your character well. It's the kind of nonsense Nick often fabricates... avoid too much contact w/ him in LJ, will you? ]

i hear ya, agree with you, and apologize.

and, i'll try harder to bite my lip re: the silly, ignorant, and biased fcar comments.

and yes, i'm in love w/ the cgt.

lastly, nick is very pleasant in real life. and, i do understand why he says what he does, but agree it's probsbly sometimes not appropriate here since i seldom, if ever, see pcar guys slinging fcar schit on the fcar boards (even if pcar guys do so on pcar boards). personally, i shared all the ignorant bias against fcars that comes from being locked into the porsche brand through hearing and parroting all the outdated ideas about fcars. i just think those guys who've closed their minds are missing out on a truly unique and exhilarating driving experience.

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Dec 24, 2004 1:01:59 AM

Jeff (in SF): Pilot; Loc: SF, CA, USA , United States; Posts: 340, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 13, 2003; Reply to: ben, lj

Sports Car Int'l

Yes I did see the story on the CGT. Interesting criticism on the ceramic clutch and in the hills of SF where I live, it sounds like it would be almost impossible to get it into my garage (if I could justify spending that much on one in the first place). I wonder if Porsche will make the CGT one of the first cars to include the rumored DSG transmission? It sounds like the perfect application for it.

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Dec 24, 2004 1:14:54 AM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: Jeff (in SF)

Re: Sports Car Int'l

Quote:
Jeff (in SF) said:
Yes I did see the story on the CGT. Interesting criticism on the ceramic clutch and in the hills of SF where I live, it sounds like it would be almost impossible to get it into my garage (if I could justify spending that much on one in the first place). I wonder if Porsche will make the CGT one of the first cars to include the rumored DSG transmission? It sounds like the perfect application for it.

oddly enough, even if they did, i'd prefer the current setup (i never stall it anymore in any condition - even caught bumper to bumper highway traffic on the way back from the drive today). that (F1 tranny) and the weak torque are the only things that make me crave the CGT over the Stradale. hell, i'm even getting used to the ride height though would still LOVE to see a factory 1/2" raise kit.

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Dec 24, 2004 7:25:13 AM

Gregor: Co-Pilot; Loc: Steckborn , Switzerland; Posts: 252, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 4, 2003; Reply to: pierre

Re: Can a Ferrari do this?

Pierre,

Thank you very much for the beautiful pictures from Camp4 in Finland. I can see that this must have been a BLAST. Also, thanx for the advice on the 'Advanced Camp'. I will certainly consider that. After all, I would not be too amused traveling that far for a lot of break (pauses) time.

Do you know if there is a price difference between the 'regular' camp and the 'advanced' version?

Thanx again and Marry Christmas

Gregor

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Dec 24, 2004 10:57:02 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: stone

Re: Can a Ferrari do this?

there is nothing wrong with what rc did ,dont need to make judgements..
by the way ,the same happened to me over here in beirut ,i was in the mountain drifting in my 996tt and some people called the police ,and they came ,but i just handled them 20dollars ,and they closed the road for me to have more fun...

merry christmas everyone!!!!!

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Dec 24, 2004 12:56:18 PM

pierre: Veteran; Loc: there , Switzerland; Posts: 1192, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: Gregor

Re: Can a Ferrari do this?

Quote:
Gregor said:
Do you know if there is a price difference between the 'regular' camp and the 'advanced' version?

Gregor, all details here:
english: http://www3.uk.porsche.com/isapi/english/gbr/news/travelclub/motorsportholidays/camp4.asp
german: http://www2.porsche.de/isapi/german/deu/news/travelclub/motorsportholidays/camp4.asp

Greetings and merry xmas!
--Pierre

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Dec 24, 2004 1:17:54 PM

Gregor: Co-Pilot; Loc: Steckborn , Switzerland; Posts: 252, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 4, 2003; Reply to: pierre

Re: Can a Ferrari do this?

Thank you very much Pierre. Unfortunately, all courses seem to be fully booked for early 2005

I will be on the lookout for 2006

Happy holidays to you too

Gregor

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Dec 24, 2004 2:56:19 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: dhayek

Re: Can a Ferrari do this?

Quote:
dhayek said:
there is nothing wrong with what rc did ,dont need to make judgements..
by the way ,the same happened to me over here in beirut ,i was in the mountain drifting in my 996tt and some people called the police ,and they came ,but i just handled them 20dollars ,and they closed the road for me to have more fun...
merry christmas everyone!!!!!

Which remembers me of my time in Romania. With CD plates and a few packages of KENT, we did our own racing events and the local police closed certain streets because we were actually having a "diplomatic meeting".

I won't forget the face of that police officer who wasn't informed about one event and who has been sent by the editor-in-chief of the communist party newspaper (Scintea) to stop those "foreigners" from having fun.
Only one car had CD plates, all others were with foreign plates. Imagine this picture: we were nine cars, including one with license plates from Lebanon (black with arabic silver lettering). The police officer stopped the first car and the daughter of the columbian ambassador showed him her CD ID, he had to let her go (funny: a US marine, part of the US embassy security detachment, was with her in the car and they weren't allowed to leave the Marine House by themselves

). Then, the second car...again CD ID. It continued until the last car came, the car with the lebanese license plates, a Chevy. Unfortunatey the driver was no diplomat but lucky him, a japanese guard from the Japanese Embassy was with him and he showed his CD ID.
How it ended: a lot of laughs, nine honking cars and a frustrated police officer.

And if somebody feels pitty for him now: this guy was actually a very special police officer as we found out later on. He was the deputy chief of the traffic control in Bucharest and well known to be a ...

It happened a long long time ago, I wouldn't suggest to do the same now again in Romania.

It would definetely cost a lot...

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