Crown

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-entry-level-rwd-porsche-taycan-launches-china

A single Permanent Synchronous Motor at the rear produces 402bhp when paired with the standard-specification 79.2kWh battery, but can be upgraded to 469bhp with the 93.4kWh Performance Battery Plus. 

Love those Porsches. It looks great. Specs and price a bit steep but it’s a Porsche and tells everyone you have ‘arrived’. Definite wheel upgrade from 19 inch required to add to that statement. If it was not for real world bills and such...  lucky for Porsche their customers see high price as a bonus. 

Does it powerslide?

Leawood911:

Love those Porsches. It looks great. Specs and price a bit steep but it’s a Porsche and tells everyone you have ‘arrived’. Definite wheel upgrade from 19 inch required to add to that statement. If it was not for real world bills and such...  lucky for Porsche their customers see high price as a bonus. 

One looks at the Hewlett-Packard versus Texas Instruments calculator differences several decades ago as an example of the price delta between Porsche and Tesla.

Both manufacturers of calculators produced artifacts that performed basically the same level of mathematical calculations; however, the difference was in the materials and design.  Back then, HP products were legendary for their robust construction and industrial-grade gold circuit board construction.  TI calculators were by far less expensive but also prone to failure after a fall from a desk.  

The Porsche is the more complete product but that completeness comes at a cost to the consumer.

402hp and 0-100 in 5.4s - shame!

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

402hp and 0-100 in 5.4s - shame!

Why shame? Porsche traditional understates its performance and an EV is heavier than the corresponding ICE.  Furthermore, there are differences in the torque curves.  

CGX car nut:

Leawood911:

Love those Porsches. It looks great. Specs and price a bit steep but it’s a Porsche and tells everyone you have ‘arrived’. Definite wheel upgrade from 19 inch required to add to that statement. If it was not for real world bills and such...  lucky for Porsche their customers see high price as a bonus. 

One looks at the Hewlett-Packard versus Texas Instruments calculator differences several decades ago as an example of the price delta between Porsche and Tesla.

Both manufacturers of calculators produced artifacts that performed basically the same level of mathematical calculations; however, the difference was in the materials and design.  Back then, HP products were legendary for their robust construction and industrial-grade gold circuit board construction.  TI calculators were by far less expensive but also prone to failure after a fall from a desk.  

The Porsche is the more complete product but that completeness comes at a cost to the consumer.

I have spent a fortune repairing my Porsches over the years. The Turbo is out of action in the garage with a coolant leak. It is a myth that cars are somehow worth it. They are nice to own and look at. Some drive better than others. But hey. I prefer we all have these choices. The market will decide like it alway has. 

CGX car nut:

the-missile:

402hp and 0-100 in 5.4s - shame!

Why shame? Porsche traditional understates its performance and an EV is heavier than the corresponding ICE.  Furthermore, there are differences in the torque curves.  

software modification and you can transform this to 3.5s...they are still applying this stupid marketing stuff.

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

402hp and 0-100 in 5.4s - shame!

Why? Many buyers don't need more and the car uses less energy. So they offer a choice: you can either go 0-60 in 2.6s (turbo s) or in 5.4s (lower price). Makes sense 

we are talking electric motor here, not a classic engine. the operating mode is completely different. the regular Taycan can surely do far better than 5.4s if the same motor combined with another smaller one is doing 2.6s

too much koolaid....

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

MKSGR:

the-missile:

402hp and 0-100 in 5.4s - shame!

Why? Many buyers don't need more and the car uses less energy. So they offer a choice: you can either go 0-60 in 2.6s (turbo s) or in 5.4s (lower price). Makes sense 

At some point though people look at specs and see they can go faster for a third the price. This means less taxes and insurance as well. Not to mention repairs and depreciation. Porsche and luxury brands depend a bit on people being excited to spend money and be seen doing this. So while it makes sense to some there will be those who choose differently.  It is certainly a different marketing strategy from trying to offer value all the time which is why the numbers are limited. 
I would be curious if the drop in price by Porsche in China allowed them to take advantage of some government rebate or discount.  This may explain why. I plans for this car elsewhere.

Leawood911:

MKSGR:

the-missile:

402hp and 0-100 in 5.4s - shame!

Why? Many buyers don't need more and the car uses less energy. So they offer a choice: you can either go 0-60 in 2.6s (turbo s) or in 5.4s (lower price). Makes sense 

At some point though people look at specs and see they can go faster for a third the price. This means less taxes and insurance as well. Not to mention repairs and depreciation. Porsche and luxury brands depend a bit on people being excited to spend money and be seen doing this. So while it makes sense to some there will be those who choose differently.  It is certainly a different marketing strategy from trying to offer value all the time which is why the numbers are limited. 
I would be curious if the drop in price by Porsche in China allowed them to take advantage of some government rebate or discount.  This may explain why. I plans for this car elsewhere.

You are right. Within the Volkswagen Group Porsche serves those buyers with a certain "spleen", people who buy stuff one usually does not need. However, this is a cohesive strategy as they also have Audi and Volkswagen to serve buyers who are more focused on value for the money. In total, their strategy seems to make sense. Something for everybody 

PAG used to propose the sport car experience with best perf for money. this is not the case anymore. They are now placing themselves as luxury mixed with sport car experience. they are going right to the wall. I understand the appeal for cash and surfing on the hype is tempting but this is very short-minded.  McLaren and Tesla show them that there could be a competition and the alternative can be strong. they should be careful.

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

PAG used to propose the sport car experience with best perf for money. this is not the case anymore. They are now placing themselves as luxury mixed with sport car experience. they are going right to the wall. I understand the appeal for cash and surfing on the hype is tempting but this is very short-minded.  McLaren and Tesla show them that there could be a competition and the alternative can be strong. they should be careful.

Not sure... They also sell Panameras with smaller engine etc. for which many here would probably argue they are not good enough. But still there is demand for these cars. Many buyers just want to drive a Porsche. They don't need the fastest version 

Indeed - many may wonder why anyone would buy a C2 911 - personally, I prefer the fun factor at lower speeds as I'm not keen on losing my licence and in the UK, a C2S or Turbo is much more likely to induce this. I don't need 180+ mph when I can only legally do 70. The speed reduction doesn't perceivably detract from the driving satisfaction\experience and I don't really care what folks think about me running a "lesser" car. 

991 Carrera Black Edition, X3 Black\Black - 2 kids, 1 dog

bridggar:

Indeed - many may wonder why anyone would buy a C2 911 - personally, I prefer the fun factor at lower speeds as I'm not keen on losing my licence and in the UK, a C2S or Turbo is much more likely to induce this. I don't need 180+ mph when I can only legally do 70. The speed reduction doesn't perceivably detract from the driving satisfaction\experience and I don't really care what folks think about me running a "lesser" car. 

911 is a sportcar, totally different than EV limousine.

911 even in its entry engine is still a sportcar. the EV car business is completely different approach and  toward a very different public. as I mentioned to Markus, I understand the appeal and the hype on the badge and request client to pay big money for this but the purpose of EV cars are fast acceleration car.

how can a Porsche, even entry model can be slower than basic American car?

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

PAG used to propose the sport car experience with best perf for money. this is not the case anymore. They are now placing themselves as luxury mixed with sport car experience. they are going right to the wall. I understand the appeal for cash and surfing on the hype is tempting but this is very short-minded.  McLaren and Tesla show them that there could be a competition and the alternative can be strong. they should be careful.

 My thoughts exactly. This is how Porsche and Lamborghini lost customers to McLaren. They may not have cared in the past but they will care...at some point.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

the-missile:

bridggar:

Indeed - many may wonder why anyone would buy a C2 911 - personally, I prefer the fun factor at lower speeds as I'm not keen on losing my licence and in the UK, a C2S or Turbo is much more likely to induce this. I don't need 180+ mph when I can only legally do 70. The speed reduction doesn't perceivably detract from the driving satisfaction\experience and I don't really care what folks think about me running a "lesser" car. 

911 is a sportcar, totally different than EV limousine.

911 even in its entry engine is still a sportcar. the EV car business is completely different approach and  toward a very different public. as I mentioned to Markus, I understand the appeal and the hype on the badge and request client to pay big money for this but the purpose of EV cars are fast acceleration car.

how can a Porsche, even entry model can be slower than basic American car?

This is the same argument one has heard for almost forty years and, guess what, Porsche has remained in business and has prospered.  Porsche remains a safe and reliable brand for those looking for image and a certain level of performance.  Much like SUV owners, few Porsche owners ever track their cars, even using more than 15% of its performance capabilities.  

As one writes this response, one realizes that an opportunity was missed for not posting a YouTube vehicle on why, according to the creator of that video, why the Volkswagen ID.3 is the most influential automobile of the decade.  The host makes a very persuasive argument that Volkswagen is producing the ideal product, with the ID.3, that meets the desired wishes of a large sector of the overall market.  He points to Volkswagen's success with its Golf with over 35 million sold over eight generations and the Beetle with over 22 million sold.  That's a core competency within the Volkswagen Group.  The Porsche Taycan was heavily analyzed to fit particular market segments influenced by the changing environmental regulations.  Otherwise, without a highly detailed analysis, there is no way the board would have approved the massive investment.  

It is a huge mistake to think cars like the tesla 3 only accelerates well. Very wrong. Model s - fine. It’s a limo. I see why the Taycan enjoys the comparison. Against the handling of the tesla 3 not so much. 
look guys. I have driven 911s my entire life. More than anyone here by double. Love those cars. I’m a driver. Pure and simple.  The model 3 is pure driving fun. Through and through. It is a point and shoot weapon and corners like it is on rails. It is nuts and the power is always there and more useable than in any other car. Period. Light years ahead of any ICE car for $56k.  If you enjoy driving any sports car and still think the model 3 is a one trick pony then you need to drive it.  There is a good reason owners like them. Koenigsegg agrees. 
AGAIN. We are looking at a new category of cars. It can’t be compared to fancy ICE sports cars. No way. But if you are into the pure thrill of driving then you will agree it’s a bargain.  
Lots of non owners disagree, if they have not driven one. Owners are too busy driving and having fun to argue much about this. 

CGX car nut:

 

This is the same argument one has heard for almost forty years and, guess what, Porsche has remained in business and has prospered.  Porsche remains a safe and reliable brand for those looking for image and a certain level of performance.  Much like SUV owners, few Porsche owners ever track their cars, even using more than 15% of its performance capabilities. 

Did you miss the near bankruptcy during the 90s? the introduction of the cheap entry Porsche level called Boxster? then the introduction of the cash cow which made them rich? a certain Cayenne (way cheaper than today...) they are just repeating themselves again.

Oh and the event at the end of the 2000's when Qatar invested billions to save them from bankruptcy as PAG debt was at 10 Billions+...

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GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

One looks at the Hewlett-Packard versus Texas Instruments calculator differences several decades ago as an example of the price delta between Porsche and Tesla.

Both manufacturers of calculators produced artifacts that performed basically the same level of mathematical calculations; however, the difference was in the materials and design.  Back then, HP products were legendary for their robust construction and industrial-grade gold circuit board construction.  TI calculators were by far less expensive but also prone to failure after a fall from a desk.  

Good memories. In high school, I lusted after an HP-67; unfortunately, I ended up with a TI-58 (I think). Ultimately I bought myself an HP-41C in college (university); not as well-built as the older HP-67 and even HP-21, but I still loved it. The feel of the keys...

the-missile:

CGX car nut:

 

This is the same argument one has heard for almost forty years and, guess what, Porsche has remained in business and has prospered.  Porsche remains a safe and reliable brand for those looking for image and a certain level of performance.  Much like SUV owners, few Porsche owners ever track their cars, even using more than 15% of its performance capabilities. 

Did you miss the near bankruptcy during the 90s? the introduction of the cheap entry Porsche level called Boxster? then the introduction of the cash cow which made them rich? a certain Cayenne (way cheaper than today...) they are just repeating themselves again.

Oh and the event at the end of the 2000's when Qatar invested billions to save them from bankruptcy as PAG debt was at 10 Billions+...

--

 

GT Lover, Porsche fan

 

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

Not in the least did one forget about Porsche in the 1990s and the sources of the problems aren’t what you think they were at the time.  Porsche even then extracted above industry margins but sold fewer cars because of a shift in demographics as baby boomers moved to more practical vehicles during their peak family raising years.  This is why Porsche later introduced a SUV in its product portfolio.  
 

The Qatar investment was because of Porsche entering financial engineering in its efforts to acquire Volkswagen. Margins remained strong over that period with an emerging China becoming one of Porsche’s key growth engines. 

KMM:

One looks at the Hewlett-Packard versus Texas Instruments calculator differences several decades ago as an example of the price delta between Porsche and Tesla.

Both manufacturers of calculators produced artifacts that performed basically the same level of mathematical calculations; however, the difference was in the materials and design.  Back then, HP products were legendary for their robust construction and industrial-grade gold circuit board construction.  TI calculators were by far less expensive but also prone to failure after a fall from a desk.  

Good memories. In high school, I lusted after an HP-67; unfortunately, I ended up with a TI-58 (I think). Ultimately I bought myself an HP-41C in college (university); not as well-built as the older HP-67 and even HP-21, but I still loved it. The feel of the keys...

I purchased a HP 41C when I was in high school.  It powered me through two engineering programs.  I only switched to a HP-12 C whilst studying for my MBA.  

KMM:

One looks at the Hewlett-Packard versus Texas Instruments calculator differences several decades ago as an example of the price delta between Porsche and Tesla.

Both manufacturers of calculators produced artifacts that performed basically the same level of mathematical calculations; however, the difference was in the materials and design.  Back then, HP products were legendary for their robust construction and industrial-grade gold circuit board construction.  TI calculators were by far less expensive but also prone to failure after a fall from a desk.  

Good memories. In high school, I lusted after an HP-67; unfortunately, I ended up with a TI-58 (I think). Ultimately I bought myself an HP-41C in college (university); not as well-built as the older HP-67 and even HP-21, but I still loved it. The feel of the keys...

I wanted to paste a pic of my still working HP-11C, circa 1986, but cannot seem to do that. I finally had to change the batteries in 2018... Still works perfectly. RPN >> algebraic...