Crown

Leawood911:

To think Tesla is one of them and group them together is not accurate IMHO. 

Still, they sell the same product  The customer will buy either a Tesla or another car...

The first post in this thread about the "upcoming" Tesla Roadster is from back in 2017... not sure if there is any point taking about such vaporware until there is actually something coming in real life with a real release date and production specs?

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

 They have been busy. When was that Taycan promised?  Production specs have been out for a while but will obviously be exceeded by 2022. Let us just wait and see. They have been pretty successful if not timely.  Not too many upset owners out there. 

“Musk delays release of Tesla Roadster”

(7 May 2020)

Tesla CEO Elon Musk said in a podcast interview released on Thursday that the company's planned Roadster sports car would take a backseat to the development of other vehicle models.

Talking with stand-up comic Joe Rogan, the billionaire also doubled down on his critique of stay-at-home orders imposed by U.S. states to curb the spread of the coronavirus.

Musk said states' lockdown orders were "unconstitutional" and would not hold up before the U.S. Supreme Court if challenged. He previously made such remarks during Tesla's first-quarter earnings call on April 29, calling restrictions "fascist."

The interview marked Musk's second appearance on Rogan's podcast, which is videotaped and published online. Musk became infamous when he smoked a marijuana joint with Rogan during the first interview in September 2018.

When Rogan asked when he could buy a Roadster, Musk responded he could not provide a date, but said other initiatives, including a ramp-up in production of the Model Y crossover and the construction of a vehicle factory in Berlin, were priorities.

"Roadster is kind of like dessert," Musk said. "We gotta get the meat and potatoes and greens and stuff."

Musk also said Tesla should produce the Cybertruck, a futuristic-looking pickup truck, before working on the Roadster.

Tesla announced the Roadster, a battery-powered four-seater, at the end of 2017 and at the time said the car would be faster than any street-legal production car. Musk in the past has said Roadster sales would begin after a revised version of its Model S sedan is released, which was widely expected to be at the end of 2020.

The two-hour interview focused only in short parts on the virus pandemic and Tesla's business, with much of the discussion centering around artificial intelligence and another of Musk's companies called Neuralink, which develops implantable brain-machine interfaces.

Musk told Rogan those devices could be implanted in people within a year, but said he would have a Neuralink implanted in himself only if it actually works.

Link: https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/musk-delays-release-tesla-roadster

Leawood911:

 They have been busy. When was that Taycan promised?  Production specs have been out for a while but will obviously be exceeded by 2022. Let us just wait and see. They have been pretty successful if not timely.  Not too many upset owners out there. 

I'm not criticising why they haven't been able to bring the car to reality yet, they have other priorities and can't do everything at the same time given their relative youth and resources, I was not judging, just bringing out the point that because of this it is kind of pointless to discuss specs and comoetition of something that it is only blueprints in a drawer since 3 years ago and we still don't know when they will be able to materialize it, by the time it comes out the original specs will probably be outdated and improved upon. Personally I seriously doubt it will come out in 2022 even.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

Leawood911:

 They have been busy. When was that Taycan promised?  Production specs have been out for a while but will obviously be exceeded by 2022. Let us just wait and see. They have been pretty successful if not timely.  Not too many upset owners out there. 

I'm not criticising why they haven't been able to bring the car to reality yet, they have other priorities and can't do everything at the same time given their relative youth and resources, I was not judging, just bringing out the point that because of this it is kind of pointless to discuss specs and comoetition of something that it is only blueprints in a drawer since 3 years ago and we still don't know when they will be able to materialize it, by the time it comes out the original specs will probably be outdated and improved upon. Personally I seriously doubt it will come out in 2022 even.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

I agree 100%. Same as the pickup truck that is now supposed to swim even 

MKSGR:

Carlos from Spain:

Leawood911:

 They have been busy. When was that Taycan promised?  Production specs have been out for a while but will obviously be exceeded by 2022. Let us just wait and see. They have been pretty successful if not timely.  Not too many upset owners out there. 

I'm not criticising why they haven't been able to bring the car to reality yet, they have other priorities and can't do everything at the same time given their relative youth and resources, I was not judging, just bringing out the point that because of this it is kind of pointless to discuss specs and comoetition of something that it is only blueprints in a drawer since 3 years ago and we still don't know when they will be able to materialize it, by the time it comes out the original specs will probably be outdated and improved upon. Personally I seriously doubt it will come out in 2022 even.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

I agree 100%. Same as the pickup truck that is now supposed to swim even 

You guys may not care and for this forum it is a bit out in the future but I assure you the competition cares what is 2-3 years away. They move a lot slower. Do you disagree that they care about this timeframe?  And would they care at all if Tesla was a failing company and not a threat? 
And no more car show pics of vapor ware. Lol. Not here. (Btw Tesla does not attend car shows or pay for ads. All cars they have shown in previews have been built to pretty much match the promised spec and look or better. Wish the Taycan looked like the mission e. 

MKSGR:

Leawood911:

MKSGR:

Leawood911:

The base roadster will also have a 600 mile range although by the time it is built I expect a serious battery advance by Tesla to upend all the specs radically. Did I mention a year ago it was a $1000 stock. 🧐 

You are certainly right - when the roadster will be finally built in 2030 new batteries will be available to enhance range 

I love these posts!  They age so well. Why not browse earlier entries in this thread regarding production numbers and bankruptcy.  Hmmm. Keep them coming. 
. 

Oh, these posts on production numbers & bankruptcy are still up to date, maybe. Difficult times ahead for Tesla (and other OEMs)...

One reason why Elon defy the law and restart his factory illegally. He needed the revenue number to try and prop the price up.

Leawood911:

MKSGR:

Carlos from Spain:

Leawood911:

 They have been busy. When was that Taycan promised?  Production specs have been out for a while but will obviously be exceeded by 2022. Let us just wait and see. They have been pretty successful if not timely.  Not too many upset owners out there. 

I'm not criticising why they haven't been able to bring the car to reality yet, they have other priorities and can't do everything at the same time given their relative youth and resources, I was not judging, just bringing out the point that because of this it is kind of pointless to discuss specs and comoetition of something that it is only blueprints in a drawer since 3 years ago and we still don't know when they will be able to materialize it, by the time it comes out the original specs will probably be outdated and improved upon. Personally I seriously doubt it will come out in 2022 even.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

I agree 100%. Same as the pickup truck that is now supposed to swim even 

You guys may not care and for this forum it is a bit out in the future but I assure you the competition cares what is 2-3 years away. They move a lot slower. Do you disagree that they care about this timeframe?  And would they care at all if Tesla was a failing company and not a threat? 
And no more car show pics of vapor ware. Lol. Not here. (Btw Tesla does not attend car shows or pay for ads. All cars they have shown in previews have been built to pretty much match the promised spec and look or better. Wish the Taycan looked like the mission e. 

You have to think outside the Tesla world, for Tesla the Roadster is important for image but I doubt other makers are worried at al about the Tesla Roadster, it is a product with a very specific niche of clients (many not cross shoppers of traditional sportscars) and low production number, wont put a dent on any maker's balance sheet.

And it is nothing makers like Porsche can make better with their knowledge of sportscars compared to Tesla, it is not a sedan, it is supposed to be a sportscar and they require a certain know-how to handle and drive like one (adding an EV engine and battery pack is the easy part), unless it is just a straight-line muscle car, in which case who cares about it then.

It is OK to talk about vaporware that is coming down the pipeline with real production dates, and another about vaporware that was announced 4 years ago and still has no realistic production date (was supposed to be out last year BTW and we are now talking about 2022 and will likely be further away). Tesla is doing the right thing focusing on money makers and not halo cars, so it is nothing to criticize (except for taking deposits for a car that they know they are not building anytime soon).

Regarding the looks of the Teslas, I guess that is a matter of taste, I find one of the worst points of a Tesla is the looks, they look so feminine and bland, like a Prius or a "sensible" people mover, put one next to a Taycan and compare, it doesn't need to look like the Mission E to ,make the Tesla look boring and unattractive, but then again they are different markets so it is not a competition between them.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Whoopsy:

MKSGR:

Leawood911:

MKSGR:

Leawood911:

The base roadster will also have a 600 mile range although by the time it is built I expect a serious battery advance by Tesla to upend all the specs radically. Did I mention a year ago it was a $1000 stock. 🧐 

You are certainly right - when the roadster will be finally built in 2030 new batteries will be available to enhance range 

I love these posts!  They age so well. Why not browse earlier entries in this thread regarding production numbers and bankruptcy.  Hmmm. Keep them coming. 
. 

Oh, these posts on production numbers & bankruptcy are still up to date, maybe. Difficult times ahead for Tesla (and other OEMs)...

 

One reason why Elon defy the law and restart his factory illegally. He needed the revenue number to try and prop the price up.

 

Funniest post ever.  Do you think Tesla is more or less desperate than the other automakers to prop up the stock price 

Carlos from Spain:

Leawood911:

MKSGR:

Carlos from Spain:

Leawood911:

 They have been busy. When was that Taycan promised?  Production specs have been out for a while but will obviously be exceeded by 2022. Let us just wait and see. They have been pretty successful if not timely.  Not too many upset owners out there. 

I'm not criticising why they haven't been able to bring the car to reality yet, they have other priorities and can't do everything at the same time given their relative youth and resources, I was not judging, just bringing out the point that because of this it is kind of pointless to discuss specs and comoetition of something that it is only blueprints in a drawer since 3 years ago and we still don't know when they will be able to materialize it, by the time it comes out the original specs will probably be outdated and improved upon. Personally I seriously doubt it will come out in 2022 even.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

I agree 100%. Same as the pickup truck that is now supposed to swim even 

You guys may not care and for this forum it is a bit out in the future but I assure you the competition cares what is 2-3 years away. They move a lot slower. Do you disagree that they care about this timeframe?  And would they care at all if Tesla was a failing company and not a threat? 
And no more car show pics of vapor ware. Lol. Not here. (Btw Tesla does not attend car shows or pay for ads. All cars they have shown in previews have been built to pretty much match the promised spec and look or better. Wish the Taycan looked like the mission e. 

You have to think outside the Tesla world, for Tesla the Roadster is important for image but I doubt other makers are worried at al about the Tesla Roadster, it is a product with a very specific niche of clients (many not cross shoppers of traditional sportscars) and low production number, wont put a dent on any maker's balance sheet.

And it is nothing makers like Porsche can make better with their knowledge of sportscars compared to Tesla, it is not a sedan, it is supposed to be a sportscar and they require a certain know-how to handle and drive like one (adding an EV engine and battery pack is the easy part), unless it is just a straight-line muscle car, in which case who cares about it then.

It is OK to talk about vaporware that is coming down the pipeline with real production dates, and another about vaporware that was announced 4 years ago and still has no realistic production date (was supposed to be out last year BTW and we are now talking about 2022 and will likely be further away). Tesla is doing the right thing focusing on money makers and not halo cars, so it is nothing to criticize (except for taking deposits for a car that they know they are not building anytime soon).

Regarding the looks of the Teslas, I guess that is a matter of taste, I find one of the worst points of a Tesla is the looks, they look so feminine and bland, like a Prius or a "sensible" people mover, put one next to a Taycan and compare, it doesn't need to look like the Mission E to ,make the Tesla look boring and unattractive, but then again they are different markets so it is not a competition between them.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Sorry - you went after the wrong premise. I think automakers are very concerned about everything Tesla is doing - certainly they are not worried about the roadster. The part about Porsche being able to build better EV sports cars because they have been building gas sports cars does not follow but I’m certain they will have nice interiors. 

Leawood911:

Carlos from Spain:

Leawood911:

MKSGR:

Carlos from Spain:

Leawood911:

 They have been busy. When was that Taycan promised?  Production specs have been out for a while but will obviously be exceeded by 2022. Let us just wait and see. They have been pretty successful if not timely.  Not too many upset owners out there. 

I'm not criticising why they haven't been able to bring the car to reality yet, they have other priorities and can't do everything at the same time given their relative youth and resources, I was not judging, just bringing out the point that because of this it is kind of pointless to discuss specs and comoetition of something that it is only blueprints in a drawer since 3 years ago and we still don't know when they will be able to materialize it, by the time it comes out the original specs will probably be outdated and improved upon. Personally I seriously doubt it will come out in 2022 even.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

I agree 100%. Same as the pickup truck that is now supposed to swim even 

You guys may not care and for this forum it is a bit out in the future but I assure you the competition cares what is 2-3 years away. They move a lot slower. Do you disagree that they care about this timeframe?  And would they care at all if Tesla was a failing company and not a threat? 
And no more car show pics of vapor ware. Lol. Not here. (Btw Tesla does not attend car shows or pay for ads. All cars they have shown in previews have been built to pretty much match the promised spec and look or better. Wish the Taycan looked like the mission e. 

You have to think outside the Tesla world, for Tesla the Roadster is important for image but I doubt other makers are worried at al about the Tesla Roadster, it is a product with a very specific niche of clients (many not cross shoppers of traditional sportscars) and low production number, wont put a dent on any maker's balance sheet.

And it is nothing makers like Porsche can make better with their knowledge of sportscars compared to Tesla, it is not a sedan, it is supposed to be a sportscar and they require a certain know-how to handle and drive like one (adding an EV engine and battery pack is the easy part), unless it is just a straight-line muscle car, in which case who cares about it then.

It is OK to talk about vaporware that is coming down the pipeline with real production dates, and another about vaporware that was announced 4 years ago and still has no realistic production date (was supposed to be out last year BTW and we are now talking about 2022 and will likely be further away). Tesla is doing the right thing focusing on money makers and not halo cars, so it is nothing to criticize (except for taking deposits for a car that they know they are not building anytime soon).

Regarding the looks of the Teslas, I guess that is a matter of taste, I find one of the worst points of a Tesla is the looks, they look so feminine and bland, like a Prius or a "sensible" people mover, put one next to a Taycan and compare, it doesn't need to look like the Mission E to ,make the Tesla look boring and unattractive, but then again they are different markets so it is not a competition between them.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Sorry - you went after the wrong premise. I think automakers are very concerned about everything Tesla is doing - certainly they are not worried about the roadster. The part about Porsche being able to build better EV sports cars because they have been building gas sports cars does not follow but I’m certain they will have nice interiors. 

They already built a better EV sedan on their first try 

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

MKSGR:

Leawood911:

MKSGR:

Leawood911:

The base roadster will also have a 600 mile range although by the time it is built I expect a serious battery advance by Tesla to upend all the specs radically. Did I mention a year ago it was a $1000 stock. 🧐 

You are certainly right - when the roadster will be finally built in 2030 new batteries will be available to enhance range 

I love these posts!  They age so well. Why not browse earlier entries in this thread regarding production numbers and bankruptcy.  Hmmm. Keep them coming. 
. 

Oh, these posts on production numbers & bankruptcy are still up to date, maybe. Difficult times ahead for Tesla (and other OEMs)...

 

One reason why Elon defy the law and restart his factory illegally. He needed the revenue number to try and prop the price up.

 

Funniest post ever.  Do you think Tesla is more or less desperate than the other automakers to prop up the stock price 

Find another car maker so heavily leveraged and a CEO that has many stock price moonshot hurdles for rewards. 

No other CEO skirt the line on manipulating stock prices, and Elon was a convicted one at that. The other CEO doesn't need to manipulate stock prices, they let it flow organically. 

No one else also announce vapourware with a timeline that they don't intend on keeping to prop up stock prices whenever necessary. 

See a trend?

TSLA gives me an ENE sensation sometimes...

Whoopsy:

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

MKSGR:

Leawood911:

MKSGR:

Leawood911:

The base roadster will also have a 600 mile range although by the time it is built I expect a serious battery advance by Tesla to upend all the specs radically. Did I mention a year ago it was a $1000 stock. 🧐 

You are certainly right - when the roadster will be finally built in 2030 new batteries will be available to enhance range 

I love these posts!  They age so well. Why not browse earlier entries in this thread regarding production numbers and bankruptcy.  Hmmm. Keep them coming. 
. 

Oh, these posts on production numbers & bankruptcy are still up to date, maybe. Difficult times ahead for Tesla (and other OEMs)...

 

One reason why Elon defy the law and restart his factory illegally. He needed the revenue number to try and prop the price up.

 

Funniest post ever.  Do you think Tesla is more or less desperate than the other automakers to prop up the stock price 

 

Find another car maker so heavily leveraged and a CEO that has many stock price moonshot hurdles for rewards. 

No other CEO skirt the line on manipulating stock prices, and Elon was a convicted one at that. The other CEO doesn't need to manipulate stock prices, they let it flow organically. 

No one else also announce vapourware with a timeline that they don't intend on keeping to prop up stock prices whenever necessary. 

See a trend?

 

Yup - he is brilliant. I see it now. Thanks 😊 

VW much?

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

MKSGR:

Leawood911:

MKSGR:

Leawood911:

The base roadster will also have a 600 mile range although by the time it is built I expect a serious battery advance by Tesla to upend all the specs radically. Did I mention a year ago it was a $1000 stock. 🧐 

You are certainly right - when the roadster will be finally built in 2030 new batteries will be available to enhance range 

I love these posts!  They age so well. Why not browse earlier entries in this thread regarding production numbers and bankruptcy.  Hmmm. Keep them coming. 
. 

Oh, these posts on production numbers & bankruptcy are still up to date, maybe. Difficult times ahead for Tesla (and other OEMs)...

 

One reason why Elon defy the law and restart his factory illegally. He needed the revenue number to try and prop the price up.

 

Funniest post ever.  Do you think Tesla is more or less desperate than the other automakers to prop up the stock price 

 

Find another car maker so heavily leveraged and a CEO that has many stock price moonshot hurdles for rewards. 

No other CEO skirt the line on manipulating stock prices, and Elon was a convicted one at that. The other CEO doesn't need to manipulate stock prices, they let it flow organically. 

No one else also announce vapourware with a timeline that they don't intend on keeping to prop up stock prices whenever necessary. 

See a trend?

 

Yup - he is brilliant. I see it now. Thanks 😊 

VW much?

VW didn't hype vapourware to prop up stock prices. Nor are they heavily leveraged and needed a high stock price. 

They did a cheat on diesel emission rate, very different scenario. Only comparable for Elon is the pump and dump schemes. In this case he didn't dump the stock but reap the reward for pumping up the stock price. 

It sounds like VW are keeping busy... 

“VW, Ford Forge Ahead With Technology Sharing to Save Costs”

(14 May 2020)

Volkswagen AG and Ford Motor Co are pushing ahead with plans to team up on electric and self-driving vehicles even as the coronavirus derails other projects, according to people familiar with the matter.

The deal is expected to close by the end of next month, with both sides recognizing a need to share the large investments needed to develop battery-powered and autonomous cars, said the people, who asked not to be identified as the negotiations are private.

The talks with Ford are progressing well, a VW spokesman said by phone, without giving further details. Alan Hall, a representative of Ford’s autonomous-car partner Argo AI LLC, said the plan is on track to close in the second quarter. Ford said separately it expects the same.

With the global pandemic bringing the automotive industry to its knees, both companies are keener than ever to move beyond an initial agreementto join forces on light commercial vehicles and mid-size pickups. Manufacturers are being forced to rein in spending amid falling demand for cars, and sharing expenses for new technology can help ease the financial burden.

Moody’s Investors Service revised its 2020 global auto sales this week to an anticipated slump of 20%, worse than its previous expectation for a 14% decline. “Our more-pessimistic view is largely based on the darkening outlook for the global economy,” the ratings company said. The auto industry is “likely to resume growth in 2021 off a diminished base.”

With demand shrinking and capital constraints mounting, the industry is going to be forced to consolidate the number of powertrain types they choose to develop going forward, said Dietmar Ostermann, a PwC senior partner.

“The transition into electric vehicles will actually be accelerated, because the industry cannot afford too many alternative propulsion systems going on at the same time,” Ostermann, PwC’s U.S. automotive advisory leader, said during a webinar hosted by Automotive News on Thursday.

Under the plan, VW will invest about $2.6 billion in Argo. That includes $1 billion in funding and the $1.6 billion Autonomous Intelligent Driving unit of the German company’s Audi brand to compete with Alphabet Inc.’s Waymo and General Motors Co.’s Cruise unit.

VW’s investment in Argo remains on track for the first half, Ford said in a statement.

Ford’s strategy has been set back by the viral outbreak, with a multi-city commercial rollout of robotaxis and driverless delivery pods in the U.S. delayed until 2022. The company says it needs more time to assess the impact of the coronavirus pandemic on consumer attitudes toward self-driving and shared vehicles. It’s also canceled plans to jointly develop an all-electric Lincoln model with Rivian Automotive Inc.

As part of the widened cooperation, Ford intends to produce at least one mass-market car in Europe based on VW’s main electric-vehicle underpinnings, dubbed MEB, with more than 600,000 targeted deliveries over six years. VW’s first car based on the new technology, the ID.3 hatchback, will be rolled out this summer. The SUV sibling called ID.4 is set to follow later this year.

The planned collaboration in the light commercial-vehicle segment focuses on mid-size pickups and vans that are scheduled to be launched as early as 2022.

Link: https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/vw-ford-forge-ahead-with-ev-technology-sharing-to-cut-costs

Here is the newest competition to the Model 3, Acura TLX:

About the same size, about the same price. 

Much more attractive exterior, and much more attractive and usable interior, with much better finish.

10-speed gearbox, vs 1-speed in the Tesla. It also doesn't need to hunt for a charger, filling it up amounts to 5 mins at gas station which are everywhere.

Did I mention heavily padded seats for support?

4 racy looking big tailpipes vs zero on the Tesla.

It has design cues from the NSX, vs hmm, nothing, no heritage.

A heavily contoured steering wheel, vs. .............plain wheel.

Attractive gauge clusters, vs no gauge cluster.

No suicidal computer trying to kill the driver vs having one.

Cheaper insurance in just about any country or city.

https://insideevs.com/news/425112/cycling-to-charge-tesla-model-x/

New business idea, opening a spin club for people to do exercise and also have them charge your own EV!!

https://www.motor1.com/news/425390/2021-bmw-x2-xdrive25e-debut/

Here is another challenger, X2 in hybrid form.

If one's daily need of driving is around 50km, it can all be done using electric power, and with only a 10kW battery, it can be charged up in no time with a lvl 2 charger. So the range to office and back now can be 100km round trip on electric power alone.

The added range from the gasoline side of the drivetrain can be use for longer trips that one occasionally needs. And no need to hunt for charing stations on longer trips. 

If it uses gas it is zero completion to Tesla. You don’t get it. Hybrid is the worst. No one cares about charge time. So I will not mention it.  It charges when you don’t use it. Find me a person who does not park their car 6 hours a day and drives more than 250 Miles each and every day - then gas or hybrid might make sense. Otherwise not. 

Haha, you are the one that don't get it.

EVs are not for everyone. Ever driver have different needs. One size does not fit all.

For some people, EV could be the perfect fit.

For others, a hybrid make much more sense.

Some other will feel only a fossil fuel powered ones is the only choice. These are the haulers that needs to go long distances. No batteries on Earth will provide closer to enough energy capacity for these.

This is the beauty of free market, everyone has a choice, there is no need to compromise and pick an EV. 

Right now as it is, only a very small percentage of buyers felt a EV will fit their needs. later on when EV tech matures, more people will find them attractive enough to switch over. In the mean time, hybrids are the one that make the most sense. You get all the government benefits with a green car yet there is no compromises on their daily lives. 

Say you live in central London, there is a congestion charge for non-green cars, but there aren't many street parking with plugs, or indoor garages for that matters. An EV won't make sense, there is no where to charge. But a hybrid doesn't need to be plugged in, and it's green so no congestion charge levied. That's just one example.

I totally get EVs are not for everyone. That was not the point. You claim the Acura or hybrid are competition for Tesla. Nope. They are competition for people stuck in the Stone Age needing to stick to gas for whatever reason (because their cars are constantly moving and they have no electricity). Like you said EVs are not for everyone. But those cars you mention are not Tesla competition . Someone who wants an EV is not cross shopping these at all.  If you want to be right all the time then go ahead and always change the topic   my point is simply that these are not EV competition. Only another EV is EV competition ( for those who have EV as a choice - which is far more people than Tesla can make cars for fast enough!)    You are the one who always points out that you can’t even compare medium priced ICE cars with expensive ICE cars so you are really reaching with your comparison    

But I’m sure the Acura and whatever that hybrid was are fine gas powered cars.  From my perspective (1% of the entire population I guess) they do not make any sense to me whatsoever even if they cost 10% of what they are asking. Sorry. No appeal. That is how devastatingly awesome the Tesla is once you have an outlet at home to plug it in. Not much of a barrier if you ask me. Do you think other automakers have realized this and are panicked?  I think so. Lol. 
 

My turbo not included of course. It’s a 911 

They are in the same price range, that's called competition.

Someone have 40k to buy a car, they look around, these 2 plus the Tesla will be on their radar. 

That's called competition.

They look at. 40k EV, does it fit? They then look at a 40k fossil fuel car, does that fit? They will also be looking at a 40k hybrid, can this fit?

Whoopsy:

They are in the same price range, that's called competition.

Someone have 40k to buy a car, they look around, these 2 plus the Tesla will be on their radar. 

That's called competition.

They look at. 40k EV, does it fit? They then look at a 40k fossil fuel car, does that fit? They will also be looking at a 40k hybrid, can this fit?

 

We agree to disagree. Once you have decided an EV fits your situation then anything with gas makes no sense in terms of competition hence Elon has a pretty good deal right now.  If all you want to compare by is $ I.e you are just looking at price range then fine. You are just suiting the question to fit your answer. 
Presently the number of people who own an EV vs the number who can charge it and park it at night at home is tiny. No one needs to convince you or anyone to go EV. Notice the lack of advertising by every maker. There are not enough batteries so this is a mute point.  As a lifelong 911 owner, which should be hard to beat in terms of fun and value, I am blown away by the car. So is a guy named Koenigsegg. Maybe ask him if he thinks those others are competing with a Model3   
I think we are good here, those are fine cars based on price alone, unless you know of an EV to compete with Tesla, any model.  Not going to try and compare all the Tesla only benefits like autopilot, updates, safety, economy. Etc. just price. 
What percentage of people who use their cars with EV range daily and own a house with good power connections currently own EV’s?  Hmmm. Nice big percentage is my bet. Just a swag. 
 

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

They are in the same price range, that's called competition.

Someone have 40k to buy a car, they look around, these 2 plus the Tesla will be on their radar. 

That's called competition.

They look at. 40k EV, does it fit? They then look at a 40k fossil fuel car, does that fit? They will also be looking at a 40k hybrid, can this fit?

 

We agree to disagree. Once you have decided an EV fits your situation then anything with gas makes no sense in terms of competition hence Elon has a pretty good deal right now.  If all you want to compare by is $ I.e you are just looking at price range then fine. You are just suiting the question to fit your answer. 
Presently the number of people who own an EV vs the number who can charge it and park it at night at home is tiny. No one needs to convince you or anyone to go EV. Notice the lack of advertising by every maker. There are not enough batteries so this is a mute point.  As a lifelong 911 owner, which should be hard to beat in terms of fun and value, I am blown away by the car. So is a guy named Koenigsegg. Maybe ask him if he thinks those others are competing with a Model3   
I think we are good here, those are fine cars based on price alone, unless you know of an EV to compete with Tesla, any model.  Not going to try and compare all the Tesla only benefits like autopilot, updates, safety, economy. Etc. just price. 
What percentage of people who use their cars with EV range daily and own a house with good power connections currently own EV’s?  Hmmm. Nice big percentage is my bet. Just a swag. 
 

Why limit your scope with 'just EVs'?

People don't shop that way. EV is just another car. A transportation to most people.

Why did people went and buy a EV in the first place? They have the need to buy a car, they have their budget. They went through the same decision process with picking normal cars, hybrid cars and EVs, and came up with the conclusion that a Model 3, a pure EV, fits their needs the best, hence that's how they ended up with a EV.

You are looking at the question in a enthusiast's point of view, you are not looking at a Job Smith situation down the road where he just need a car to go to work and whatever. 

Regardless of how you think, the general consumer doesn't think you way. 

Whoopsy:

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

They are in the same price range, that's called competition.

Someone have 40k to buy a car, they look around, these 2 plus the Tesla will be on their radar. 

That's called competition.

They look at. 40k EV, does it fit? They then look at a 40k fossil fuel car, does that fit? They will also be looking at a 40k hybrid, can this fit?

 

We agree to disagree. Once you have decided an EV fits your situation then anything with gas makes no sense in terms of competition hence Elon has a pretty good deal right now.  If all you want to compare by is $ I.e you are just looking at price range then fine. You are just suiting the question to fit your answer. 
Presently the number of people who own an EV vs the number who can charge it and park it at night at home is tiny. No one needs to convince you or anyone to go EV. Notice the lack of advertising by every maker. There are not enough batteries so this is a mute point.  As a lifelong 911 owner, which should be hard to beat in terms of fun and value, I am blown away by the car. So is a guy named Koenigsegg. Maybe ask him if he thinks those others are competing with a Model3   
I think we are good here, those are fine cars based on price alone, unless you know of an EV to compete with Tesla, any model.  Not going to try and compare all the Tesla only benefits like autopilot, updates, safety, economy. Etc. just price. 
What percentage of people who use their cars with EV range daily and own a house with good power connections currently own EV’s?  Hmmm. Nice big percentage is my bet. Just a swag. 
 

Why limit your scope with 'just EVs'?

People don't shop that way. EV is just another car. A transportation to most people.

Why did people went and buy a EV in the first place? They have the need to buy a car, they have their budget. They went through the same decision process with picking normal cars, hybrid cars and EVs, and came up with the conclusion that a Model 3, a pure EV, fits their needs the best, hence that's how they ended up with a EV.

You are looking at the question in a enthusiast's point of view, you are not looking at a Job Smith situation down the road where he just need a car to go to work and whatever. 

Regardless of how you think, the general consumer doesn't think you way.

Okay. I agree, people who are looking to buy a Tesla are also interested in an Acura TSX or a hybrid because of price similarities.  Sometimes it is just best to agree 

OMG, you are so stubborn about Teslas  This is why Tesla people are annoying, they think they are the centre of the universe. They aren't. 

Tesla is just one of many brands that makes EVs, and EVs are just one of many forms or cars. All are competing against each other in their segment for the consumers' money.

People shop for 'cars'. Within their budget. People don't shop for 'Teslas'. 

In the process, they have 3 choices, normal cars, hybrids, and EVs within their budget normally.

If they think an EV fits their needs, then they would see they have offerings from GM, Tesla, KIA, etc.

Among those choices, perhaps a Model 3 fits best within their needs, that's how people ended up with Teslas. 

You have become a Tesla fanatic. It's like talking to a wall, nothing goes through or understood. 

Whoopsy:

OMG, you are so stubborn about Teslas  This is why Tesla people are annoying, they think they are the centre of the universe. They aren't. 

Tesla is just one of many brands that makes EVs, and EVs are just one of many forms or cars. All are competing against each other in their segment for the consumers' money.

People shop for 'cars'. Within their budget. People don't shop for 'Teslas'. 

In the process, they have 3 choices, normal cars, hybrids, and EVs within their budget normally.

If they think an EV fits their needs, then they would see they have offerings from GM, Tesla, KIA, etc.

Among those choices, perhaps a Model 3 fits best within their needs, that's how people ended up with Teslas. 

You have become a Tesla fanatic. It's like talking to a wall, nothing goes through or understood. 

 

 

you are the one who got into a Tesla thread trying to sell gas. Lol.  Now listen...
I’m a Porsche guy. I agreed with you. Omg.  
Too funny. You want to create a controversy where there is none.  None at all. I agree EV are not for everyone.  For those who want an EV a gas powered car just does not make sense. That is all I’m saying hence competition is whatever you want it to be if you are in the market for either.  Cheers and TGIF 

Whoopsy:

They are in the same price range, that's called competition.

Someone have 40k to buy a car, they look around, these 2 plus the Tesla will be on their radar. 

That's called competition.

They look at. 40k EV, does it fit? They then look at a 40k fossil fuel car, does that fit? They will also be looking at a 40k hybrid, can this fit?

 

For the same price you can get a sports coupé, cabrio, sedan, van, suv, .... diesel, gasoline, hybrid, electric

You have to fix some more parameters not only the price.

Not so much out their which would really put these two cars in comparasion.

AM