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Re: 997S Delayed
Quote:
997Fan said:
Just got the dreaded call today...November build 911S slate/terracotta pushed back till december...WONDERFUL...Porsche is really starting to [censored] me off...
Aw, sorry to hear that. Well, at least you'll still get the car in good time for Spring. Plus it gives them a little more time to iron out other possible recall bugs you might have had to suffer.
Nov 16, 2004 11:12:03 PM
- Holminator
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Re: 997S Delayed
Wonder if your salesman was reading all of the bulletins from the factory like mine (Mike Maurer at HBL Porsche)? He spotted a supply problem with the chrome exhaust pipe option, which if not deleted would have delayed my 6 Dec build by several months, according to the factory bulletin. 
Nov 17, 2004 11:20:14 AM
- easy_rider911
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Re: 997S Delayed
Hmm. I've been reading the boards here for some time now and it seems that so many Porsche buyers have either had the production dates of their new cars put back or options they had chosen are temporarily not available or worst of all, their new car turns out to be full of gremlins.
Two months ago I was seriously thinking about selling my 100% reliable BMW, taking out a bank loan and economising on all the other stuff I spend my salary on in order to get a new 997. Do you think I'm going to do that now? No way!
I adore the 997 but I think I'll wait 1-2 years while Porsche gets its act together. Once they start making the 997 properly thats when I'll take the plunge.
If any Porsche AG execs are reading this, please take note: your cars aren't cheap so we expect a lot for that kind of money. Make them properly please or we'll choose another brand.
Two months ago I was seriously thinking about selling my 100% reliable BMW, taking out a bank loan and economising on all the other stuff I spend my salary on in order to get a new 997. Do you think I'm going to do that now? No way!
I adore the 997 but I think I'll wait 1-2 years while Porsche gets its act together. Once they start making the 997 properly thats when I'll take the plunge.
If any Porsche AG execs are reading this, please take note: your cars aren't cheap so we expect a lot for that kind of money. Make them properly please or we'll choose another brand.
Nov 17, 2004 11:28:06 AM
- easy_rider911
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Re: 997S Delayed
One other thing - I'm curious to know why people are always in such a hurry to get a new car as soon as it comes out? I know people get all passionate and feel they simply have to have it and want to be seen in the new shape car before other people but come on guys, we're talking about a car that costs upwards of Pounds58000. Is it right to buy something before problems with it have been sorted out?
I just think it's really tragic that a manufacturer like Porsche that has long held a reputation for incredible reliability should squander it so carelessly. It galls me to think that soulless Japanese cars like Lexus, Toyota and Honda are much more reliable.
Come on Porsche - get your act together before the JD Power survey clobbers you!
I just think it's really tragic that a manufacturer like Porsche that has long held a reputation for incredible reliability should squander it so carelessly. It galls me to think that soulless Japanese cars like Lexus, Toyota and Honda are much more reliable.
Come on Porsche - get your act together before the JD Power survey clobbers you!
Re: 997S Delayed
Quote:
med said:
really sorry to hear your news but I'm not surprised,
nothing surprises me any more with the ordering process. The whole thing is getting unbelievably stupid... with all the missing options especially TPM and PSE and now delivery delays
COME ON PO GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER
Ouch, my ears are hurting.
Porsche didn't do anything wrong.
The TPM is a new product for the 911, it has to work flawlessly.
For the 996, the PSE was available after 2-3 years, so please give Porsche some time to sort out all difficulties, especially regarding certification. There have been a lot of protests against the PSE in Germany and other regions due to the loud sound, maybe they just have difficulties to get it streetlegal this time. Patience.
And regarding production delays: dealers get certain infos from Porsche regarding options which aren't available yet. They also issue the warning that car orders which have one or more of the not available options may be substantially delayed. Some dealers just seem to "forget" to read these bulletins or they just forget to delete these options from car orders. The consequence: the ordered car is delayed and the customer starts to
Porsche. This isn't fair in my opinion. Quality comes first and if a car is delayed by a month or so, it might be annoying but it has been done with a reason. The 997 is a completely new product, over 80% new parts compared to the 996. Give Porsche the chance to sort out the little flaws which are always present in the first year of production, no matter what car manufacturer we're talking about.
Nov 17, 2004 1:37:54 PM
- John SF 2005 997 S
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Re: 997S Delayed
easy_rider911 -- Sounds like you're just looking for a reason not to order one? Make yourself feel better? The internet blows up any problems or issues with cars or anything else. The 99% of people who buy the car and are happy with it have never heard of Rennteam.com and never post anything on the internet. But the one guy with a loose door seal posts about it and puts up a picture and now all of a sudden the car has "problems" - just a bunch of BS....
Nov 17, 2004 2:17:51 PM
- palenimbus
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Re: 997S Delayed
Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
I just think it's really tragic that a manufacturer like Porsche that has long held a reputation for incredible reliability should squander it so carelessly. It galls me to think that soulless Japanese cars like Lexus, Toyota and Honda are much more reliable.
Come on Porsche - get your act together before the JD Power survey clobbers you!
Ironically, cheaper cars can have better quality (but worse workmanship) because they have much larger economies of scale. That's my impression anyway.
Nov 17, 2004 2:40:53 PM
- easy_rider911
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Re: 997S Delayed
Yes, good point. Mass production can improve build quality e.g Honda but not always e.g Citroen. However, people like us pay a premium for cars like Porsche because, amongst other things, they are more bespoke. I guess the more one spends, the more one feels one has the right to be particular about quality etc.
Nov 17, 2004 3:24:38 PM
- easy_rider911
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Re: 997S Delayed
No, not quite. I did say that I adore the 997 and that I will take the plunge once the gremlins have been ironed out. I am 100% sure of my intention to buy one so it's not a question of 'if' but rather a question of 'when' I place my order. I am most probably going to get a standard Carrera with plenty of options.
As for the point about the internet amplifying problem issues faced by new buyers, with all due respect, I couldn't disagree more. Sadly, almost all new cars have gremlins which need to be ironed out whether the rest of us are aware of them or not - it isn't just a phenomenon brought about by the internet. Making the wider world aware of those problems can only be a good thing. After all, why shouldn't people learn from, and avoid, the bad experiences of others. RMS leaks, sudden engine failures etc have unfortunately plagued people with the 986/996.
There's a really good section on www.topgear.com called 'duffers' and 'lifers'. People write in about the problems they've had on their cars.
I'm not here to denigrate Porsche as a brand. Nothing would make me happier than to be able to place my order now with complete peace of mind. However, since I expect exceptional reliability when spending this amount of money, I'd rather not go through the inconvenience and irritation that others are suffering right now. So I plan to wait until after September 2006 when I understand the MY2007 will become available. Hopefully all these gremlins will be history by then.
As for the point about the internet amplifying problem issues faced by new buyers, with all due respect, I couldn't disagree more. Sadly, almost all new cars have gremlins which need to be ironed out whether the rest of us are aware of them or not - it isn't just a phenomenon brought about by the internet. Making the wider world aware of those problems can only be a good thing. After all, why shouldn't people learn from, and avoid, the bad experiences of others. RMS leaks, sudden engine failures etc have unfortunately plagued people with the 986/996.
There's a really good section on www.topgear.com called 'duffers' and 'lifers'. People write in about the problems they've had on their cars.
I'm not here to denigrate Porsche as a brand. Nothing would make me happier than to be able to place my order now with complete peace of mind. However, since I expect exceptional reliability when spending this amount of money, I'd rather not go through the inconvenience and irritation that others are suffering right now. So I plan to wait until after September 2006 when I understand the MY2007 will become available. Hopefully all these gremlins will be history by then.
Re: 997S Delayed
Quote:
Porsche didn't do anything wrong.
The TPM is a new product for the 911, it has to work flawlessly.
Please excuse me if I'm wrong as I'm certainly very new to PO ownership but it has been said before on this forum that the TPM system is very similar to the Cayenne system and therefore there is some historic use (including supply and demands).
You also mentioned previously that BERU (the manufacturer) have been sold to an American company, surely PO must have service level agreements with there suppliers with all sorts of clauses covering supply and demands to protect themselves and the prospective customers
Quote:
the PSE was available after 2-3 years, so please give Porsche some time to sort out all difficulties, especially regarding certification
My dealer mentioned failure to achieve level 4 emission levels of certification, something the car has achieved (being the first sports car to do so)
I still can't understand why PO offered PSE in the first place when clearly the exhaust was not ready yet, let face it they have achieved level 4 emissions on a sports car and developed the PSE almost like an after thought.
Quote:
Some dealers just seem to "forget" to read these bulletins or they just forget to delete these options from car orders.
When I placed my first order (subsequently changed) the salesperson entered all the data straight into the PO web site (slightly different version to what we can pick up)
If an option was not available the order would not complete, I'm at a loss trying to understand how any dealer could get it wrong? Assuming PO keep the site up to date.
Should an option become problematic during the waiting process surely it's the responsibility of PO factory to return the order with some specific information and not via a generic bulletin. I therefore hold the factory mainly to blame and not the dealers
Quote:
The 997 is a completely new product, over 80% new parts compared to the 996. Give Porsche the chance to sort out the little flaws which are always present in the first year of production, no matter what car manufacturer we're talking about.
Yes I couldn't agree more but IMO option problems have created a slightly negative reaction which has made any other more normal problem associated to new cars such as delivery delays far more disappointing. A much cleverer marketing plan would be to release the options over many years, keeping the owners interested in changing cars and most importantly not promising to deliver something that will ultimately not happen and disappoint prospective owners.
In my case its not just about missing options that's got me a little fed up, it's more because I decided to wait for PSE as advised by dealer (March 05 delivery) and I would have now been posting pictures and stories of fun drives. So I've got to wait for the same car I could be driving now If only I had known
RC, no disrespect I always bow to superior knowledge its just I cant wait to get in the thing
Re: 997S Delayed
I agree with easyrider's philosophy. If you spend this much on a car, you expect reliability. I do not have an opinion on Porsche's long-term reliability b/c I have never owned one. I am, however, very close to purchasing a 997s tiptronic. I have not heard too many things relating to reliability, so I am not too concerned. However, I will say that I do not care if it is the first model year, if the car is built and designed by a company with the reputation of Porsche, particularly when Porsche has higher profit margins in its cars than any other manufacturer (at least as reported by Fortune), then I expect reliability. The 997s is going to replace my BMW Z8, a car that I have owned for 3 years and have had absolutely no problems with. It has been my every day driver and I have put about 17k miles on it with no problems, even though it was a first year production model. Once I purchase the 997, I expect no less.
Nov 17, 2004 4:56:38 PM
- MaxErnst
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Re: 997S Delayed
Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
I think I'll wait 1-2 years while Porsche gets its act together. Once they start making the 997 properly thats when I'll take the plunge.
That's my strategy. new model introductions are difficult for everybody. I've been waiting for the new 911 ever since the rumors started (decidednot to get the 996 for that reason).
Now I gotta wait just a little longer. Oh well, how long would you wait to go on a date with a Victoria's Secret model?
Suffering: it is just part of life. "Suffering" because you're waiting to get something really nice: part of life in the USA.
Nov 17, 2004 4:56:47 PM
- John SF 2005 997 S
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Re: 997S Delayed
"MANY" ?? What are you talkng about ?!??!? What are the problems/issues with the 997 you're talking about? Please explain? 996 People Plagued??? Are you kidding? Porsche has one of the highest JD Powers ratings out there???? Hello ?? ANYONE HOME?
Stop just making crap up because you read about a few guys loudly complaining about isolated issues.... come on...
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2003050
Stop just making crap up because you read about a few guys loudly complaining about isolated issues.... come on...
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2003050
Nov 17, 2004 5:03:26 PM
- John SF 2005 997 S
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Re: 997S Delayed
So MAX? you waited 4 years for a 996 because you were worried about issues with a car from the company that has the fewest number of problems per 100 car that JD Powers surveyed. That makes a lot of sense. If you want the car buy it. If you don't then don't go around posting bogus reasons why you have not bought the car. SO tired of people crapping on Porsche when it Consistently ranks at the top in terms of quality. Either learn some facts or shut up !!!
2004 Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout (APEAL) Study Most Appealing Premium Sports Car
2004 Germany Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI) Study Highest in Customer Satisfaction among Sports Cars
2004 Initial Quality Study (IQS) Gold Plant Quality Award, European
2004 Initial Quality Study (IQS) Highest Ranked Premium Sports Car in Initial Quality
2003 Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) Most Dependable Premium Sports Car
2000 Initial Quality Study 2 Best Sports Car in Initial Quality
2000 Initial Quality Study 2 Silver Plant Quality Award, Europe
2004 Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout (APEAL) Study Most Appealing Premium Sports Car
2004 Germany Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI) Study Highest in Customer Satisfaction among Sports Cars
2004 Initial Quality Study (IQS) Gold Plant Quality Award, European
2004 Initial Quality Study (IQS) Highest Ranked Premium Sports Car in Initial Quality
2003 Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) Most Dependable Premium Sports Car
2000 Initial Quality Study 2 Best Sports Car in Initial Quality
2000 Initial Quality Study 2 Silver Plant Quality Award, Europe
Nov 17, 2004 5:32:37 PM
- RonH
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Nov 17, 2004 5:58:27 PM
- John SF 2005 997 S
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Nov 17, 2004 6:17:19 PM
- RonH
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Nov 17, 2004 6:41:04 PM
- MaxErnst
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Re: 997S Delayed
Quote:
John SF 2005 997 S said:
So MAX? you waited 4 years for a 996 because you were worried about issues with a car from the company that has the fewest number of problems per 100 car that JD Powers surveyed. That makes a lot of sense. If you want the car buy it. If you don't then don't go around posting bogus reasons why you have not bought the car. SO tired of people crapping on Porsche when it Consistently ranks at the top in terms of quality. Either learn some facts or shut up !!!
Read my frickin' post. I didn't buy a 996 because the 997 was about to come out. I don't what you are talking about.
Re: 997S Delayed
L'ets calm down guys,
my july built 997s has ABSOLUTELY no problems.exept for a minor ignition key issue which has been allready solved by my dealer in 10min.
also for all of those who doubt about porsches quality,my former 996tt had ABSOLUTLEY no problems in 4 years and 140000km.
when i drive the car i feel as if i was sitting in a BUNKER.i feel safe and the car feels indistructable.absolutly!!
so i think that we just shouldn't start cursing for some minor detailes and issues like these.
my july built 997s has ABSOLUTELY no problems.exept for a minor ignition key issue which has been allready solved by my dealer in 10min.
also for all of those who doubt about porsches quality,my former 996tt had ABSOLUTLEY no problems in 4 years and 140000km.
when i drive the car i feel as if i was sitting in a BUNKER.i feel safe and the car feels indistructable.absolutly!!
so i think that we just shouldn't start cursing for some minor detailes and issues like these.
Re: 997S Delayed
Ferdie
You are correct that my Z8 was a 6-speed manual transmission and I absolutely loved it. However, after spending some time with the smg transmission, both in the M3's and in my new 2005 545, I love the speed of the shifts and the electronically controlled throttle on the downshifts. I know there has been some speculation and criticism of the BMW's smg, but I happen to be a fan. That being said, I was blown away by the tiptronic transmission on the 997s I drove. The speed of the shifts is just not something that can be matched with a manual transmission. That, and you also get the benefit of an automatic mode. So, for what it's worth, that is my reason for opting for the tiptronic.
You are correct that my Z8 was a 6-speed manual transmission and I absolutely loved it. However, after spending some time with the smg transmission, both in the M3's and in my new 2005 545, I love the speed of the shifts and the electronically controlled throttle on the downshifts. I know there has been some speculation and criticism of the BMW's smg, but I happen to be a fan. That being said, I was blown away by the tiptronic transmission on the 997s I drove. The speed of the shifts is just not something that can be matched with a manual transmission. That, and you also get the benefit of an automatic mode. So, for what it's worth, that is my reason for opting for the tiptronic.
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