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    911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    Hey guys,

    Of course the vette won it was going against the basic 911. I bet the 911S would have smoked the vette, car and driver knew that when they tested the 911S last month. They figured run the basic 911 against the vette so the vette would win. They clocked the 911 0-60 time at 4.3, and they got a 1/4 mile at 12.8, i must say nobody seems to pull car and driver numbers. By the way the 911 lost by 1 point so imagine what the 911S would have scored, it would have just embarassed the vette.

    Ciao

    Re: 911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    I only just glanced through the article and I can understand where they come from. While I think everyone would agree on the 997 being the superior sports car the huge price differential gives the vette a huge advantage in any comparo.

    But for any serious sports car enthusiest, the price difference would be overlooked as "there is no substitute" .

    (0-60, 4.1s for the vette beats the 996tt )

    Re: 911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    Quote:
    porsche997 said:
    Hey guys,

    Of course the vette won it was going against the basic 911. I bet the 911S would have smoked the vette, car and driver knew that when they tested the 911S last month. They figured run the basic 911 against the vette so the vette would win. They clocked the 911 0-60 time at 4.3, and they got a 1/4 mile at 12.8, i must say nobody seems to pull car and driver numbers. By the way the 911 lost by 1 point so imagine what the 911S would have scored, it would have just embarassed the vette.

    Ciao



    Wow, such "controversy" should sell alot of magazines.

    Now alot of teenagers can impress their friends saying the car they imagine having someday will beat a Porsche.

    The thing to keep in mind is most people who go into a Porsche dealership to actually buy the 911 have never and never will step foot in a Corvette showroom.






    Re: 911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    Max why do you say that? I know there are some people who will cross shop the vette and the 911.

    Re: 911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    Max why do you say that? I know there are some people who will cross shop the vette and the 911.


    Only in North American.

    Re: 911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    Quote:
    iia said:
    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    Max why do you say that? I know there are some people who will cross shop the vette and the 911.


    Only in North American.



    OOPS! I forgot to exclude the sports car enthusiasts. Those who comprise 1% of the car buying public. I guess they comparision shop.

    I'm in the .000002% group who don't like the Corvette's overstated agressive looks, California Surfer muscle car image, and economical "good value" GM quality.

    The majority of Porsche 911 buyers just want the best money can buy in European sophistication and teutonic engineering and they can afford it.

    I think, for most Porsche 911 buyers (we here aren't representative) there's no desire to comparison shop a value-based American muscle car.

    Re: 911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    Quote:
    MaxErnst said:

    The thing to keep in mind is most people who go into a Porsche dealership to actually buy the 911 have never and never will step foot in a Corvette showroom.





    Hope that I do not offend to many, but even as a Boxster S owner I have not put 2 secs into whether a Corvette could be a substitute...and I will not

    Re: 911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    The Corvette/Porsche comparison has been going on since at least 1966, when I bought my first Porsche. I used to get a bit riled by it all, and fell into the trap of thinking Porsche was "better" than the vette, or even that vette buyers were somehow less classy. I got over this attitude years ago, and now respect both cars for what they are--and they are entirely different.

    I also got over Car and Driver, which has long had a comparison approach to stories, especially comparing "euro sophistication versus american iron". I find this type of journalism repugnant and divisive.

    Bottom line for me--we are lucky as H to have so many great sports cars on the market.

    Re: 911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    Sydney, thank goodness there are posters like you on the board. I thought this place was an enthusiast's forum, not snob central.

    Re: 911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    Sydney, thank goodness there are posters like you on the board. I thought this place was an enthusiast's forum, not snob central.



    Keep in mind just because you don't like Corvettes doesn't make you a snob. If C&G is entitled to their opionions (which are _always_ biased) so are other oeple entitled to theirs.

    Just because C&G has to be "politically correct" talking about Corvette doesn't mean the average citizen can't say what they think.

    What's wrong with being a snob? What exactly IS a snob? I'm loyal to German Engineered cars, I think GM and Ford products are inferior. Does that make me a snob? I don't think so.


    Re: Self Confessed Performance Snob

    I admit it !

    Look at the numbers. The Covette C6 laps the ring in 7:56,
    has 400hp and way more luggage room than a 997.

    Its no longer a V8 joker. Dimensionally the same size as a 997, its aerodynamics have been drastically cleaned up. The handling and braking have been exorcised of mediocrity.

    How has it been reviewed by the German Press ?

    Ive never owned one because they looked too garish and didnt handle or stop well at high speeds. Apparently they
    have addressed all of that on the C6.

    Re: 911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    I doubt its the engineering you like about German cars, its more likely their status symbol you're after. This has been proven through numerous posts you've made.

    Re: 911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    And what's wrong with that?

    Re: 911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    Abosolutely nothing, you go ahead and use it as some sort of emotional crutch.

    Re: 911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    I personally feel this way -


    "Purschased in 2004. Sold in 1973"

    Re: 911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    The vette has a totally different appeal to the 911 in my view. It has a unsophisticated, brute muscle-car stigma attached to it which is the result of it's design, heritage and lack of 'internationalization'. They don't even sell the vette in most countries (including mine), so how are they supposed to get rid of that imputation?

    Re: 911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    You anti Corvette guys. Let me put you in your place.

    You are a walking failure. You couldn't afford the taxes on a home where I live. So go crawl back in your hole.

    Re: 911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    What are the differences? Having been under and around both in the last few days here is my take on it.

    The porsche is a better quality peice than the vette. The quality of the interior on the vette has gotten better but still is not up to snuff as compared with the porsche. It is as plain as day. getting underneath the cars the vette just is not going to enjoy the same durability.

    Oh the other difference is with my porsche at high speed I get better mileage as that is where the car is designed to operate most efficiently the vette gets much worse mileage the faster you go.

    No no Mr. Clean


    I dont think anyone would disagree that the 997 has a more expensive interior than a Vette. If thats your thing so be it. However, to state that the Vette is not as durable is
    preposterous. Even if you willfully blew up a Corvette V8
    motor, its replacement is only 10K USD. That might buy you a set of 997 pistons, rings, rods and a refurbished crank from Porsche.

    To say that the 997 gets better mpg at high speeds is just your speculation. If you have data, please share it.

    Further even the 997, with all of its performaqnce, build quality and precision is a flawed peice of automotive merchandise. Its inability to have its suspension modified to suit a owners desire is just the most ridiculous thing I have heard of for a performance car. I thought that the lack of a passenger airbag control switch was mean and block headed, but the 997's inability for its suspension set up to be changed with either factory or aftermarket parts wins the top [censored] award for sports car builders.

    Someone needs to check the wasser filters at the pagoda.

    Re: 911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    Quote:
    Tour18 said:
    You anti Corvette guys. Let me put you in your place.

    You are a walking failure. You couldn't afford the taxes on a home where I live. So go crawl back in your hole.



    ???

    Re: 911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    Quote:
    booger said:
    Quote:
    Tour18 said:
    You anti Corvette guys. Let me put you in your place.

    You are a walking failure. You couldn't afford the taxes on a home where I live. So go crawl back in your hole.



    ???



    I reckon!

    I state my opinion of the Corvette in a civalized manner and you call me a walking failure,

    Re: 911 vs. Vette posted on caranddriver.com

    $4.50 per $1000 of assessed value where the average home price is $200,000? $900/yr for property taxes. I wish!

    What's smells about the article:

    They start out saying price isn't an issue in their comp. Yet they choose the non-S Carerra. (The one with the "old" 996 based engine).

    Not only do they do this but they do NOT EVEN MENTION the existence of the Carerra S in the article.

    How can you compare 325 HP to a 400 hp engine? The fact that they come up one point short just smells of them stacking the deck so the outcome is controversial.

    It's just so ridiculous in so many ways (to compare the cars) I have an urge to delete what I just wrote.

    Re: Ahem!

    As a matter of fact I do, since I have personally taken apart my porsches--checkout my website for verification http://zoomzoomvroom.com.
    I have also owned a few vettes or done work on them as well although I have not personally worked on the C6 a friend of mine had one apart last week so the interior is one area where the quality is better although that is merely an example inside my overall statement. -by the way I like the vette.

    Oh yeah, I was involved with GM motorcar division specifically cheverolet and specifically corvette in the mid 90's in regard to the electronic rights to the history of the car and was granted access to all aspects of manufacturing and design. For example to bore and hone a cylinder for chevrolet for the corvette takes less than 1 second, honda takes 8 and porsche takes a similar amount of time. What this means is that they can pump out more engines, but the quality is of the operation is less. Also observable is gap in quality between parts which, if you have seen both cars up close as I have is obvious. Paint,the process and amount used is less for the corvette as well.

    In regard to my statements about engines, Porsche engines, at least in the aircooled variety are very similar to aircraft engines, something I am also quite familiar with as I mispent my youth restoring WWII fighter planes as well as more modern fare. These engines are designed to perform optimally in cruise mode at a given set of RPM, fuel enrichment etc.. as is the porsche. It is designed to be able to perform best for a given set of circumstances high speed and handling. That being the case based on my experience I have found that like the airplanes I worked on my porsches everything from my 67-to my 996's and boxster S get vastly better mileage 14 city 24 mpg at 85 miles per hour than my vettes whose gas mileage goes into the toilet in the same speed range. (12) C5.

    Let me say I love vettes, I also see and understand that building that car for GM especially when the C5 was being developed had to be built to a price point and therefore where one could get away with things in the corporate parts bin one would. The advantage of this is that GM is able to do certain things with the car as they are building a larger number of them. However, having said that I would expect better quality for the price. I believe current vette production is roughly 32,000 units or more while 996 production is, roughly 15,000. Furthermore if you did a bit more homework you would know that Chevy uses a completely different block for racing the C5R. Porsche uses the GT3 engine as a basis which uses the old 964 block, however I believe that they have worked out the problems with the M96 (one can hope) and it will be now used in the GT3 as well as the rest of the line.

    Having said all of this I am acutely aware that some of the parts of the porsche do not thrill me to death either these days, however my general observation is that what we get today in general shows there is a lot of inflation in the world economy, it reminds me of the incredible shrinking candy bar for the same price.

    So my advise is go take the cars apart as I and my friends have done recently and then let me know your opinion.

    Re: Ahem!

    i have no idea what is in Car and Driver's thinking or rational some times. if their argument is price, there are many Carrera owners who would gladly shell out the extra $10k to move into an S. it's pretty evident that the S would have outperformed the Vette but i am sure everyone in Motor City would be very upset with the magazine....mad enough to reduce advertising expenditure!

    Re: Its not the 90's dude!

    I agree with your shrinking candy bar comment!

    As Nixon said "let me say this about that"

    Take a look at the development process of the C6. You will find a complete different set of performance targets and testing environments. Not only did GM actually spend a lot of R&D money on the C6 for international testing, specifically the 'bahn, the 'ring and even built a copy of the 'ring in the states, they really managed to
    drastically improve high speed stability and braking.

    I think you might want to take another look at the published mileage data for the C6. Its much better
    than what you are getting with your C5.

    Having owned 8 Porsches and no Corvettes, Im no Corvette
    enthusiast. But with the 997 locking the customer out
    of being able to customize his suspension set up, or even change his seats, Porsche is telling us that they are now more interested in customers who lease their cars for temporary garage art.

    Re: Ahem!

    I see no problem in testing the base models of both cars. If the vette was offered in as many flavors as the Porsche then you could see a complete side-by-side line-up. But comparing something from the middle (997S) from something at the base (C6) would've been like comparing the 530 to an E500. Is that still fair? Especially when you look at the price index, you can still get a Z06 which will blow away the 997 or 997S but they didn't include that either.

    ...but just as an FYI I can't stand GM products because everything I hated about the 996 is 10-fold in the GM crap.

    Re: Ahem!

    Yea, good point, when the Z06 comes out then they'll test that with the S. They were testing BASE models of both cars.

    But Road and track went ahead and tested the Corvette and the 997S. The Vette still won because of price. If you consider that a win?

    Re: Ahem!

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    Yea, good point, when the Z06 comes out then they'll test that with the S. They were testing BASE models of both cars.

    But Road and track went ahead and tested the Corvette and the 997S. The Vette still won because of price. If you consider that a win?



    But we have a problem... They reported that the vette got half second better lap times around their 2 minute course. So go to a track with a 997S and you'll be sucking v-8 exhaust. It's sad and it shouldn't be this way. The 997S should be putting in laps that are a second faster on any given track.

    What's worse is that Chevrolet plans to make a much larger difference between the C6 Z06 and standard models than was present with the C5. I don't see Porsche making the 997 GT3 as dramatically different performance wise from the S as the two corvette models will be. To the point, how can the GT3 remain the ultimate track day weapon with the threat of a cheaper 500 hp corvette C6 Z06 that handles just as well.

    Re: Ahem!

    The C6 is not exactly base because is has the Z51 handling package, which is significant.

     
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