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Re: 997S vs. M5
i wouldn't be shocked to see the M5 keep up with the 997 in acceleration and the twisties. take the limiter off and it will top out at 205mph, according to "Top Gear" Magazine. what is the world coming to when a 4 door with a bigger boot is capable of this? and its not like your getting an inferior product, it's a BMW, for christ's sake!
Re: 997S vs. M5
I think it's amazing that BMW can make the M5 perform as well as it does, matching the 997 S in most areas. However, it's still an ugly car, and no matter how much I've tried, I just can't bring myself to like the Bangle styling elements. The trunk "shut line" just looks wrong, as if BMW forgot how to build cars with small gaps! The Bangle trunks look like aftermarket add-ons, sort of like the "continental" spare-tire kits that people used to put on cheap cars.
The 5 series isn't quite as goofy looking as the 7 series, but it's still awful. I do think that the 5 series front is tolerable, without the feminine look that plagues the front of the 6-series, or just plain fugliness of the 7 series. Fixing the poor trunk shut line would help, although the "flame surfacing", pinched looking rear ends, and other Bangle-isms will keep this generation of BMWs from ever being loved.
No, looks aren't everything, but they are important, and there is no excuse for premium cars that look like crap. Porsche understands this, and returned to the beloved styling elements on the 997, even though the 996 is hardly a dog. BMW's last generation 5 looked great, and they could have easily continued with the same design theme and had a great looking machine. Bangle bungled, and while that's a tired joke, it's all too true.
The 5 series isn't quite as goofy looking as the 7 series, but it's still awful. I do think that the 5 series front is tolerable, without the feminine look that plagues the front of the 6-series, or just plain fugliness of the 7 series. Fixing the poor trunk shut line would help, although the "flame surfacing", pinched looking rear ends, and other Bangle-isms will keep this generation of BMWs from ever being loved.
No, looks aren't everything, but they are important, and there is no excuse for premium cars that look like crap. Porsche understands this, and returned to the beloved styling elements on the 997, even though the 996 is hardly a dog. BMW's last generation 5 looked great, and they could have easily continued with the same design theme and had a great looking machine. Bangle bungled, and while that's a tired joke, it's all too true.
Re: 997S vs. M5
I agree, what's funny is all these pointy oval-trangles are starting to look tired. The Cadillac origami is starting to look tired, to me too.
I betcha the will all have a very short life.
That upside-down "D" with the point on the center of it's radius you see on _every_ crummp commonplace front grille is getting dated too.
My bet is things will get square with round headlights again.
Those "radical" designs (bangle-inspired) are too radical, people will pay attention for a while and then figure out that noticing them is different from having a half-way-decent aesthetic experience.
I betcha the will all have a very short life.
That upside-down "D" with the point on the center of it's radius you see on _every_ crummp commonplace front grille is getting dated too.
My bet is things will get square with round headlights again.
Those "radical" designs (bangle-inspired) are too radical, people will pay attention for a while and then figure out that noticing them is different from having a half-way-decent aesthetic experience.
Re: 997S vs. M5
Quote:
mkultra said:
i wouldn't be shocked to see the M5 keep up with the 997 in acceleration and the twisties. take the limiter off and it will top out at 205mph, according to "Top Gear" Magazine. what is the world coming to when a 4 door with a bigger boot is capable of this? and its not like your getting an inferior product, it's a BMW, for christ's sake!
BMW doesn't develop their cars for speeds over 250 kph, one reason why even Tuners are very careful about raising top speed. Here in Germany, 250 kph are ridiculous. I drove today several times up to 240 kph and it had only 2*C and I was driving in my Cayenne Turbo. And speed was limited by the winter tires only.
I know that a lot of people in Germany would say "where the hell do you drive that fast" but believe it or not, it is no problem. There is always an Autobahn with less traffic. 
Regarding the twisties: you're kidding, right? The BMW M5 wins straight line performance but only by one second up to 125 mph. And if you forget to press that button...
I don't understand it, seriously: how could somebody be interested in buying a BMW M5 or Mercedes E55 as an alternative to a sportscar? I tried it and this isn't even half the fun of driving a Boxster.
Nov 10, 2004 10:34:15 PM
- palenimbus
- Expert
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- Loc: Baden-Württemberg, Germany
- Posts: 1824, Gallery
- Registered on: Jul 6, 2004
- Reply to: Skip
Re: 997S vs. M5
Quote:
Skip said:
I think it's amazing that BMW can make the M5 perform as well as it does, matching the 997 S in most areas. However, it's still an ugly car, and no matter how much I've tried, I just can't bring myself to like the Bangle styling elements. The trunk "shut line" just looks wrong, as if BMW forgot how to build cars with small gaps! The Bangle trunks look like aftermarket add-ons, sort of like the "continental" spare-tire kits that people used to put on cheap cars.
The 5 series isn't quite as goofy looking as the 7 series, but it's still awful. I do think that the 5 series front is tolerable, without the feminine look that plagues the front of the 6-series, or just plain fugliness of the 7 series. Fixing the poor trunk shut line would help, although the "flame surfacing", pinched looking rear ends, and other Bangle-isms will keep this generation of BMWs from ever being loved.
No, looks aren't everything, but they are important, and there is no excuse for premium cars that look like crap. Porsche understands this, and returned to the beloved styling elements on the 997, even though the 996 is hardly a dog. BMW's last generation 5 looked great, and they could have easily continued with the same design theme and had a great looking machine. Bangle bungled, and while that's a tired joke, it's all too true.
Skip, that being said, what do you think of the new 3-series?
http://www.speedycars.net/wallpaper/bmw_3.html
Re: 997S vs. M5
Quote:
Texas911 said:
Regardless, it would make a nice combo (M5) with the 911.
It wouldn't. The nicest combo would be a 997 Turbo and a Cayenne Turbo Powerkit but right now I have to be satisfied with a 997 Carrea S and a Cayenne Turbo.
Guys, I owned a E55 AMG for almost 8 months. If you're used to a Porsche, DO NOT buy the M5. You'll regret it.
Apples and oranges, the old story.
Nov 11, 2004 8:44:31 AM
- Skip
- Junior
-
- Loc: Colorado, USA
- Posts: 55, Gallery
- Registered on: Apr 15, 2004
- Reply to: palenimbus
Re: 997S vs. M5
I like the new 3 series, with the possible exception of the taillight shape. Why Audi and BMW have gone to these weird shaped lights is beyond me. I'm still not sure that I like the new 3 as much as the current series, which I think is one of the best that BMW has ever done. The coupe is especially nice.
Re: 997S vs. M5
For me they have messed up the whole BMW range....
The current 3, especially in MS CSL guise is a good looking and desirable motor.. The new 3 on the other hand looks a bit generic for my liking... Very japanese saloon looking!
The only thing to be said for the bangle cars is that you sure do notice them on the road! There's no missing a new 7!
The current 3, especially in MS CSL guise is a good looking and desirable motor.. The new 3 on the other hand looks a bit generic for my liking... Very japanese saloon looking!
The only thing to be said for the bangle cars is that you sure do notice them on the road! There's no missing a new 7!
Nov 12, 2004 1:21:13 AM
- pnoble
- Co-Pilot
-
- Loc: Short Hills, NJ , United States
- Posts: 231, Gallery
- Registered on: Sep 18, 2004
- Reply to: palenimbus
Re: 997S vs. M5
I just transitioned from an M5 to a 997S after many, many years of complete loyalty to BMW and a succession of their high end cars.
I agree with you 100%, Danny928, that the E60 5 series design is dreadful. Bangle is killing the brand. It is not that the E60 design is without merit. It is just flawed. And I don't want to spend that kind of money for a flawed 'you just don't understand my design genius' car.
Until a month ago, and for three years, I came down every morning to my M5 in the garage and just sighed. That is what a great should do to you, in my mind.
And my Arctic 997S has the same effect on me, but five-fold.
It may be back to 993 basics, it may be this and it may be that. But what it really is, is just perfect. An absolutely beautiful, sensual, classic design. And no one has to explain it. Like Hally Berry, dare I say!
And all Bangle's explanations and lectures on his design genius don't make the E60 look any better.
I saw the E60 M5 (Concept) at the Geneva Auto Show and I voted with my wallet - for Porsche.
Hasta La Vista, Bangle.
I agree with you 100%, Danny928, that the E60 5 series design is dreadful. Bangle is killing the brand. It is not that the E60 design is without merit. It is just flawed. And I don't want to spend that kind of money for a flawed 'you just don't understand my design genius' car.
Until a month ago, and for three years, I came down every morning to my M5 in the garage and just sighed. That is what a great should do to you, in my mind.
And my Arctic 997S has the same effect on me, but five-fold.
It may be back to 993 basics, it may be this and it may be that. But what it really is, is just perfect. An absolutely beautiful, sensual, classic design. And no one has to explain it. Like Hally Berry, dare I say!
And all Bangle's explanations and lectures on his design genius don't make the E60 look any better.
I saw the E60 M5 (Concept) at the Geneva Auto Show and I voted with my wallet - for Porsche.
Hasta La Vista, Bangle.
Re: 997S vs. M5
I think both cars a superb, but totally different.
Another thing is, that nobody loves the Bangle design, but everybody is buying that car. BMW is the most successful car company these days.
It seems to be like our election in Germany two years ago, nobody voted for SPD, but they won!
AM
Another thing is, that nobody loves the Bangle design, but everybody is buying that car. BMW is the most successful car company these days.
It seems to be like our election in Germany two years ago, nobody voted for SPD, but they won!
AM
Re: 997S vs. M5
I believe that in the USA the first year of E60 (new 5) sales were down over the last year E39 (old 5) sales. If so I'm not sure if this is a strong vote for the new design!
BMW is reporting sales increases overall but this seems more due to adding more models: 6 series, X3 and continued demand for the Mini.
I say this based only on the BMW published US sales figures and maybe Europe is different.
BMW is reporting sales increases overall but this seems more due to adding more models: 6 series, X3 and continued demand for the Mini.
I say this based only on the BMW published US sales figures and maybe Europe is different.
That figures! 
Re: 997S vs. M5
Quote:
RC said:
how could somebody be interested in buying a BMW M5 or Mercedes E55 as an alternative to a sportscar? I tried it and this isn't even half the fun of driving a Boxster.
I really cannot believe you just said that Christian! This from a man driving a Cayenne?
Stephen
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